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Is this an article whose tone is encylopedic or polemical in character, in whole or in part?
One clearly non-Wikipedia-compliant problem is that some references from previous years are written unedited as if still in the present. Also those sentences or assertions made in a permanent uncited present tense ("currently").
Lewvalton ( talk) 16:22, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
I think the section regarding sunnis and non-muslims should go to freedom of religion in Turkey — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.165.246.181 ( talk) 02:27, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move per request.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 14:14, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
Racism and discrimination in Turkey → Racism in Turkey – Discrimination is a very broad subject. It would include things like sexism, heterosexism, discrimination based on age, etc. This article is almost exclusively about race and ethnicity issues, except the part about Alevis. And changing the title would make this article more in line with the Racism in Europe template, which links to this article, and where all the other countries' pages seem to be named "Racism in X". Kevin (talk) 00:29, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
My edits have been reverted, because I should give reasons on TP. The reverter said "crucial things", which I found is funny, obviously that junk is crucial. But I dont think there was bad intention in the reversion, i think it needed more explanation. I am not active on english wikipedia, but I stumbled across this.
1) The military action in the Zilan-Valley The user Takabeg has uploaded a piece of Newspaper, with the title "The ones from Zilan-Valley have been erased". In Turkish, the suffix "-kiler" means "the ones" from Zilan Valley, its a neutral reference to a group. In this military action against a kurdish rebellion there was some degree of high civilian casualities, which I will not discuss here. The point is: The newspaper article is cut - as you can see. The reason for is obvious: If you read the part that was cut out, you get clear that the title "the ones in the Zilan-Valley have been erased" does not refere to any civilian or ethnicity, as the text and the context here try to suggest. Its a ugly manipulation of a kurdish nationalist. The notion "deredekiler" (the ones from the valley) does only refer to "bandits", as the rebells are called. Here you can read the whole article: [1]. Crushing a rebellion and killing "bandits" is not racism. Especially there is no indication of racism if you say, the "bandits have been erased".
2) The use of language in a parliament is not a issue of racism or not, its an issue of the concept of unity¢ralism, the concept of "rules and etiquette" and the concept of "official language". Determining an official language in a determined political sphere is not a form of racism. If "Pussy Riot"-friendly members of parliament have a speech with naked breasts - is it sexism if the cameras turn away? Ridiculous statements and one outright forgery. -- Zoylab ( talk) 21:57, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:10, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
'"Samast'a jandarma karakolunda kahraman muamelesi". Radikal (in Turkish). 2 February 2007.' Is broken and it isn't police it is gendermerie. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.253.111.124 ( talk) 14:27, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
"More than 4,000 Kurds were arrested in 2011" not all Diyarbakır people is Kurd. If we must speak for Diyarbakır's race distribution according to local people roughly %60 Diyarbakır people is Kurd. I can't say how much of them real Kurd because in Turkey we don't investigate people's races. I don't think a The Guardian reporter know anything about that, too. They are not arrested them for being Kurd or any other race only because investigation about terrorism. Wikipedia has so many wrong or biased pages about Turkey which i don't know why. Too many for me to correct, i hope people can be more sensitive about Turkey.
Also, according to Turkish nationality law: Everyone bound to the Turkish state through the bond of citizenship is a Turk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.253.111.124 ( talk) 14:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
As with a lot of articles on Turkey, this article suffers a great deal from recentism as well. Racism in Turkey is a phenomenon that has been there (in its modern sense) for over a century and has substantial historical roots. Whilst this article does a good job of explaining some historical aspects, a lot of crucial aspects of racism in Turkey are just missing e.g. a lot of the ideological dimension, Nihal Atsız and his followers, who do not even mind being called "racist". On the other hand, whilst the current situation should definitely be covered in detail, the article devotes paragraphs upon paragraphs to narrating specific incidents that took place in the 2000s and 2010s. Encyclopaedic writing in such an article should give an overview and mention salient cases, but not every instance of racism, and should not list these in a newscast-like tone. Currently much of the article just consists of lists of events (especially in the "Against Armenians" section). I won't be removing anything (except for a statement made in Sweden!) but I will be tagging the article for attention. @ EtienneDolet:, I think you may be interested in fixing this.
On top of that, I think this article might have a serious BLP problem. For specific incidents to be labelled as instances of racism, we need them to be reported as racism by reliable sources. This should absolutely be the case when living people are involved. I personally do think that all of this rhetoric these people are spewing is racism, just in case if it is unfortunately the case that I need to make that clear. But it is not important that I, as a Wikipedia editor, consider it racism. Per WP:BLP that type of classification should be absolutely sourced to WP:RS and furthermore the source should be attributed in the sentence. The sentence on Aras Özbiliz an excellent example of how that should be done. -- GGT ( talk) 19:41, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
This topic is titled "Racism in Turkey". But the entire article talks about "Ethnic discrimination in Turkey". MrUnoDosTres ( talk) 19:43, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
The title says its racism but its mostly about excluded people YUMOYOY ( talk) 13:16, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
The Genocide against Greek and the events before the Lausanne Treaty should be mentioned 62.228.52.76 ( talk) 00:53, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
Sorry to say this but over the years this article has evolved into one big unmanageable mess.
It was initially created as a bone fide attempt to summarise animosity in Turkey against the traditionally defined religious minorities (azınlıklar) and Kurds, and was titled "Racism in Turkey". Fair enough, but even then there was a problem with WP:OR/ WP:SYNTH as I discussed above many years ago, with incidents not being explicitly described as "racist" being dumped into the article.
Over the years it was renamed "Racism and discrimination in Turkey". Gradually sections were added about newer, immigrant communities and the xenophobia they've experienced (Afghans, Arabs, Syrians). Now there is even a section titled "against Turks"!
This is ridiculous. There is no single source that treats all of these as a single unified phenomenon. The name of the article is awfully non-specific: will this article be expanded to include examples of sexism, homophobia, transphobia, classism, ableism and so forth? Those all fall under the discrimination category, right? I can't see a comparable lack of focus for any other such article for other countries either. This article seems to have become a dumping ground for all sorts of things wrong with Turkey, but lacks encyclopaedic focus. GGT ( talk) 20:48, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Is this an article whose tone is encylopedic or polemical in character, in whole or in part?
One clearly non-Wikipedia-compliant problem is that some references from previous years are written unedited as if still in the present. Also those sentences or assertions made in a permanent uncited present tense ("currently").
Lewvalton ( talk) 16:22, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
I think the section regarding sunnis and non-muslims should go to freedom of religion in Turkey — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.165.246.181 ( talk) 02:27, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move per request.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 14:14, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
Racism and discrimination in Turkey → Racism in Turkey – Discrimination is a very broad subject. It would include things like sexism, heterosexism, discrimination based on age, etc. This article is almost exclusively about race and ethnicity issues, except the part about Alevis. And changing the title would make this article more in line with the Racism in Europe template, which links to this article, and where all the other countries' pages seem to be named "Racism in X". Kevin (talk) 00:29, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
My edits have been reverted, because I should give reasons on TP. The reverter said "crucial things", which I found is funny, obviously that junk is crucial. But I dont think there was bad intention in the reversion, i think it needed more explanation. I am not active on english wikipedia, but I stumbled across this.
1) The military action in the Zilan-Valley The user Takabeg has uploaded a piece of Newspaper, with the title "The ones from Zilan-Valley have been erased". In Turkish, the suffix "-kiler" means "the ones" from Zilan Valley, its a neutral reference to a group. In this military action against a kurdish rebellion there was some degree of high civilian casualities, which I will not discuss here. The point is: The newspaper article is cut - as you can see. The reason for is obvious: If you read the part that was cut out, you get clear that the title "the ones in the Zilan-Valley have been erased" does not refere to any civilian or ethnicity, as the text and the context here try to suggest. Its a ugly manipulation of a kurdish nationalist. The notion "deredekiler" (the ones from the valley) does only refer to "bandits", as the rebells are called. Here you can read the whole article: [1]. Crushing a rebellion and killing "bandits" is not racism. Especially there is no indication of racism if you say, the "bandits have been erased".
2) The use of language in a parliament is not a issue of racism or not, its an issue of the concept of unity¢ralism, the concept of "rules and etiquette" and the concept of "official language". Determining an official language in a determined political sphere is not a form of racism. If "Pussy Riot"-friendly members of parliament have a speech with naked breasts - is it sexism if the cameras turn away? Ridiculous statements and one outright forgery. -- Zoylab ( talk) 21:57, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Racism in Turkey. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:10, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
'"Samast'a jandarma karakolunda kahraman muamelesi". Radikal (in Turkish). 2 February 2007.' Is broken and it isn't police it is gendermerie. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.253.111.124 ( talk) 14:27, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
"More than 4,000 Kurds were arrested in 2011" not all Diyarbakır people is Kurd. If we must speak for Diyarbakır's race distribution according to local people roughly %60 Diyarbakır people is Kurd. I can't say how much of them real Kurd because in Turkey we don't investigate people's races. I don't think a The Guardian reporter know anything about that, too. They are not arrested them for being Kurd or any other race only because investigation about terrorism. Wikipedia has so many wrong or biased pages about Turkey which i don't know why. Too many for me to correct, i hope people can be more sensitive about Turkey.
Also, according to Turkish nationality law: Everyone bound to the Turkish state through the bond of citizenship is a Turk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.253.111.124 ( talk) 14:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
As with a lot of articles on Turkey, this article suffers a great deal from recentism as well. Racism in Turkey is a phenomenon that has been there (in its modern sense) for over a century and has substantial historical roots. Whilst this article does a good job of explaining some historical aspects, a lot of crucial aspects of racism in Turkey are just missing e.g. a lot of the ideological dimension, Nihal Atsız and his followers, who do not even mind being called "racist". On the other hand, whilst the current situation should definitely be covered in detail, the article devotes paragraphs upon paragraphs to narrating specific incidents that took place in the 2000s and 2010s. Encyclopaedic writing in such an article should give an overview and mention salient cases, but not every instance of racism, and should not list these in a newscast-like tone. Currently much of the article just consists of lists of events (especially in the "Against Armenians" section). I won't be removing anything (except for a statement made in Sweden!) but I will be tagging the article for attention. @ EtienneDolet:, I think you may be interested in fixing this.
On top of that, I think this article might have a serious BLP problem. For specific incidents to be labelled as instances of racism, we need them to be reported as racism by reliable sources. This should absolutely be the case when living people are involved. I personally do think that all of this rhetoric these people are spewing is racism, just in case if it is unfortunately the case that I need to make that clear. But it is not important that I, as a Wikipedia editor, consider it racism. Per WP:BLP that type of classification should be absolutely sourced to WP:RS and furthermore the source should be attributed in the sentence. The sentence on Aras Özbiliz an excellent example of how that should be done. -- GGT ( talk) 19:41, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
This topic is titled "Racism in Turkey". But the entire article talks about "Ethnic discrimination in Turkey". MrUnoDosTres ( talk) 19:43, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
The title says its racism but its mostly about excluded people YUMOYOY ( talk) 13:16, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
The Genocide against Greek and the events before the Lausanne Treaty should be mentioned 62.228.52.76 ( talk) 00:53, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
Sorry to say this but over the years this article has evolved into one big unmanageable mess.
It was initially created as a bone fide attempt to summarise animosity in Turkey against the traditionally defined religious minorities (azınlıklar) and Kurds, and was titled "Racism in Turkey". Fair enough, but even then there was a problem with WP:OR/ WP:SYNTH as I discussed above many years ago, with incidents not being explicitly described as "racist" being dumped into the article.
Over the years it was renamed "Racism and discrimination in Turkey". Gradually sections were added about newer, immigrant communities and the xenophobia they've experienced (Afghans, Arabs, Syrians). Now there is even a section titled "against Turks"!
This is ridiculous. There is no single source that treats all of these as a single unified phenomenon. The name of the article is awfully non-specific: will this article be expanded to include examples of sexism, homophobia, transphobia, classism, ableism and so forth? Those all fall under the discrimination category, right? I can't see a comparable lack of focus for any other such article for other countries either. This article seems to have become a dumping ground for all sorts of things wrong with Turkey, but lacks encyclopaedic focus. GGT ( talk) 20:48, 21 August 2023 (UTC)