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As discussed HERE, I think that maybe Wotanism should be a disambiguation page as Wotanism as defined by plagiarist Ron McVan is a completely different concept and belief system from the Wotanism of Guido von List. And, both are different to Odinism] (Wotanism under a different name). FK0071a 09:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
There is little material on List's Wotanism that I am aware of, and I am pretty well read on this subject. What primary sources would you be using? At this time, I don't think there is enough material to make a Wotanism entry solely based on List and his contemporaries, and from what I understand, the original conception of the pre-WWII Wotanists was archetypal rather than literally polytheistic. Also, the numbers of people - at least in the English speaking world - who identify as Wotanist are minuscule. I can't even find one well established group or reliable website who uses Wotanism as a self-identifier. The few sparse places it occurs, they are of the David Lane school. Even the Temple of Wotan and Wotansvolk sites are gone. I'm not wholly opposed to it, but we need to have a list of reliable and verifiable sources before we proceed. - WeniWidiWiki 16:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
FK0071a
17:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm almost done with the Persecution of Germanic Pagans article. I still haven't figured out what exactly the situation in the USA is. Gods of Blood has a whole section on the prison-outreach project of David Lane alone, and there are other groups active in this field, too. They seem to be quite successful in suing the federal states in which they are active.
Anyway, I'd like to stop working on that article now, so I just move the last remaining parts over here until they can be incorporated into this article:
In Texas the Texas Department of Criminal Justice doesn't allow inmates to study or use the runes in any way. First they were not allowed to receive publications that contain runes, but after the runes were cut out the policy was changed so that inmates may not receive any Asatru publications. The prison authorities claim runes are related to hate groups and used as 'secret codes' for communications between gang members. [1]
According to Mark Pitcavage, prisons differentiate between racist and non-racist Neopagans, saying that the racist women's group Sigrdrifa, which has chapters in the United States and Canada, runs a special "Odinism in Prison" project. Imprisoned right-wing terrorist David Lane, serving a 190-year sentence in federal prison, is one of the principal propagandists for a violently racist version of Wotanism. [2]
Hope that this is ok. - Zara1709 21:26, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Is any of this information relevant? I don't think there is any evidence to show that he has anything more than a website, that he has a following or any influence in general.
Hardy Lloyd does have a following in the Prison system in the US and Canada, especially within Pennsylvania. There are also a growing number of youths who have embraced his book, because he speaks plainly to them and doesn't try to shove a lot of Mysticism on them, unlike the "Creed of Iron" book. Also, his book is listed in several local independent libraries within greater Pittsburgh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.155.117.161 ( talk) 17:30, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
Hardy Lloyd was NOT convicted of murder, but won that in a jury trial. The man from Canada, whose IP address is 70.24.116.115, lied when he stated that. He also lied about Mr. Lloyd not having been in the WCOTC. Hardy Lloyd was a close friend of Matt Hales, who ordained him a Minister, was state leader for Pennsylvania first and later Ohio and West Virginia, and was one the "College of Electors"... I must warn the man from Canada that he can be sued for slander by Mr. Lloyd for making the false statement that Hardy was "convicted"!! A copy of the trial record is available for $50 US at the local Pittsburgh county court house!!
For some reason, "Welwesburg" keeps taking out Mr. Lloyd's info. He is using POV, and is not being emotion free, as per WIKI's rules for edits! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.155.117.58 ( talk) 23:17, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Page protected due to edit warring. Tan | 39 19:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I removed a sentence about Wotanism being more mystical than Asataru or Odinism. There was no citation to back up the statement, and the sentence itself is vague and without supporting evidence. It seemed to me like an equivalent of putting 'Christianity is far more spiritual than Islam or Judaism' into the article on Christianity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.160.232.140 ( talk) 01:22, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
"The feminist women's group 'Sigrdrifa' focuses on White cultural identity and has chapters in the United States and Canada. Sigrdrifa runs a special 'Odinism in Prison' project."
i question the use of the adjective "feminist" here. there is no "Sigrdrifa" page, so no way to read more about this group (not on wiki, at least). what makes this women's group a "feminist" women's group? there are many women's groups that should not be labeled "feminist," and would actually bristle at the insult (Concerned Women for America is likely one of those). Colbey84 ( talk) 08:16, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
I have half a mind of pruning everything in here that's not verified by reliable sources. There is way too much content here where general statements are sourced to the dude's own website, which by definition isn't much of a reliable source, and is certainly not an objective source for statements about his movement and his fans. Drmies ( talk) 03:10, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
Is this better than the preceding text?
Following a militantly Anti-American platform that ran contrary to most of the U.S. oriented White supremacy movement, Lane furthermore equated loyalty to the United States of America with "race treason", declaring: If you support the aims or the continued existence of the entity known as America, then your treason cannot be calculated in the words of mortals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.46.221 ( talk) 02:11, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
David Lane was affiliated with Aryan Nations and was an organizer for a Klan group in Colorado be whereas McVan was previously affiliated with the Atheistic Church of the Creator. The page in Gods of the Blood indicates those are his opinions due to an exceptionally wacky and abrasive constitution for an Aryan homeland in which "satanic, heathen" groups are banned. It doesn't speak for Wotansvolk as a group per se. Just McVan's personal dealings with Christian Identity people etc 172.58.43.171 ( talk) 06:21, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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As discussed HERE, I think that maybe Wotanism should be a disambiguation page as Wotanism as defined by plagiarist Ron McVan is a completely different concept and belief system from the Wotanism of Guido von List. And, both are different to Odinism] (Wotanism under a different name). FK0071a 09:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
There is little material on List's Wotanism that I am aware of, and I am pretty well read on this subject. What primary sources would you be using? At this time, I don't think there is enough material to make a Wotanism entry solely based on List and his contemporaries, and from what I understand, the original conception of the pre-WWII Wotanists was archetypal rather than literally polytheistic. Also, the numbers of people - at least in the English speaking world - who identify as Wotanist are minuscule. I can't even find one well established group or reliable website who uses Wotanism as a self-identifier. The few sparse places it occurs, they are of the David Lane school. Even the Temple of Wotan and Wotansvolk sites are gone. I'm not wholly opposed to it, but we need to have a list of reliable and verifiable sources before we proceed. - WeniWidiWiki 16:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
FK0071a
17:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm almost done with the Persecution of Germanic Pagans article. I still haven't figured out what exactly the situation in the USA is. Gods of Blood has a whole section on the prison-outreach project of David Lane alone, and there are other groups active in this field, too. They seem to be quite successful in suing the federal states in which they are active.
Anyway, I'd like to stop working on that article now, so I just move the last remaining parts over here until they can be incorporated into this article:
In Texas the Texas Department of Criminal Justice doesn't allow inmates to study or use the runes in any way. First they were not allowed to receive publications that contain runes, but after the runes were cut out the policy was changed so that inmates may not receive any Asatru publications. The prison authorities claim runes are related to hate groups and used as 'secret codes' for communications between gang members. [1]
According to Mark Pitcavage, prisons differentiate between racist and non-racist Neopagans, saying that the racist women's group Sigrdrifa, which has chapters in the United States and Canada, runs a special "Odinism in Prison" project. Imprisoned right-wing terrorist David Lane, serving a 190-year sentence in federal prison, is one of the principal propagandists for a violently racist version of Wotanism. [2]
Hope that this is ok. - Zara1709 21:26, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Is any of this information relevant? I don't think there is any evidence to show that he has anything more than a website, that he has a following or any influence in general.
Hardy Lloyd does have a following in the Prison system in the US and Canada, especially within Pennsylvania. There are also a growing number of youths who have embraced his book, because he speaks plainly to them and doesn't try to shove a lot of Mysticism on them, unlike the "Creed of Iron" book. Also, his book is listed in several local independent libraries within greater Pittsburgh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.155.117.161 ( talk) 17:30, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
Hardy Lloyd was NOT convicted of murder, but won that in a jury trial. The man from Canada, whose IP address is 70.24.116.115, lied when he stated that. He also lied about Mr. Lloyd not having been in the WCOTC. Hardy Lloyd was a close friend of Matt Hales, who ordained him a Minister, was state leader for Pennsylvania first and later Ohio and West Virginia, and was one the "College of Electors"... I must warn the man from Canada that he can be sued for slander by Mr. Lloyd for making the false statement that Hardy was "convicted"!! A copy of the trial record is available for $50 US at the local Pittsburgh county court house!!
For some reason, "Welwesburg" keeps taking out Mr. Lloyd's info. He is using POV, and is not being emotion free, as per WIKI's rules for edits! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.155.117.58 ( talk) 23:17, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Page protected due to edit warring. Tan | 39 19:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I removed a sentence about Wotanism being more mystical than Asataru or Odinism. There was no citation to back up the statement, and the sentence itself is vague and without supporting evidence. It seemed to me like an equivalent of putting 'Christianity is far more spiritual than Islam or Judaism' into the article on Christianity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.160.232.140 ( talk) 01:22, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
"The feminist women's group 'Sigrdrifa' focuses on White cultural identity and has chapters in the United States and Canada. Sigrdrifa runs a special 'Odinism in Prison' project."
i question the use of the adjective "feminist" here. there is no "Sigrdrifa" page, so no way to read more about this group (not on wiki, at least). what makes this women's group a "feminist" women's group? there are many women's groups that should not be labeled "feminist," and would actually bristle at the insult (Concerned Women for America is likely one of those). Colbey84 ( talk) 08:16, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
I have half a mind of pruning everything in here that's not verified by reliable sources. There is way too much content here where general statements are sourced to the dude's own website, which by definition isn't much of a reliable source, and is certainly not an objective source for statements about his movement and his fans. Drmies ( talk) 03:10, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
Is this better than the preceding text?
Following a militantly Anti-American platform that ran contrary to most of the U.S. oriented White supremacy movement, Lane furthermore equated loyalty to the United States of America with "race treason", declaring: If you support the aims or the continued existence of the entity known as America, then your treason cannot be calculated in the words of mortals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.46.221 ( talk) 02:11, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
David Lane was affiliated with Aryan Nations and was an organizer for a Klan group in Colorado be whereas McVan was previously affiliated with the Atheistic Church of the Creator. The page in Gods of the Blood indicates those are his opinions due to an exceptionally wacky and abrasive constitution for an Aryan homeland in which "satanic, heathen" groups are banned. It doesn't speak for Wotansvolk as a group per se. Just McVan's personal dealings with Christian Identity people etc 172.58.43.171 ( talk) 06:21, 19 September 2019 (UTC)