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In many relevant areas French language (My native language) has lost much influence, widely recognized in previous decades as a very relevant diplomatic language has lost much influence in favor of English and giving way to others such as Spanish language.
- It has six times more native speakers than French.
- It has more than twice as many speakers as French.
- Both languages are globally distributed, both natively and non-native.
- Both French and Spanish are official in major international organizations, although French is official NATO as a point in favor.
- The Spanish language is the world's fastest growing global language
- It is the third most used language on the Net after English and Chinese
- The contribution of the whole of the Spanish-speaking countries to the GDP (Gross Domestic Product) worldwide is 6.9%. This percentage is higher than that generated by countries that have French as their official language. In the case of Spanish, the common language multiplies by four the bilateral exports between the Spanish-speaking countries.
- In the United States, Spanish is the most studied language in all levels of education. In the United Kingdom, Spanish is perceived as the most important language for the future. In the European Union, France, Sweden and Denmark stand out especially for the study of Spanish as a foreign language.
Source: https://www.cervantes.es/sobre_instituto_cervantes/prensa/2018/noticias/np_presentacion-anuario.htm JamesOredan ( talk) 22:39, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
1-The Cervantes Institute is an official source, from which its data are taken as true, because it is the largest organ of regulation and analysis of the Spanish language together with the RAEA.
2-It's not original research, it's official data that I literally have transited.
3- My objective is not to defend whether or not it is a world language, which evidently is, and this is established in consensus in this article. I affirm that it occupies "the second place", above the. French and behind English.
Thank you. JamesOredan ( talk) 00:26, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
In fact, Instituto Cervantes is the primary source used by Wikipedia in articles related to the number of Spanish speakers, the Hispanosphere and the Hispanic culture. JamesOredan ( talk) 00:47, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
We really agree on a lot of what you have written, it is true that Spanish is less expanded than French in Asia and Africa, but really the difference is not that it implies a clear change. In addition, French is increasingly lost in America because the Spanish language is the first language studied in the US, when until a few decades ago it was the French par excellence.
For me, the biggest point in favor of French against Spanish is that the first is an official of NATO and the Spanish language is not, despite being official in most important international organizations.
I consider nevertheless that the Spanish-speaking sphere, although it is less global than the francophone sphere, has many more speakers and is a more active collective and with a greater weight in the global economy.
That among the other arguments above contributed by Instituo Cervantes says it all. JamesOredan ( talk) 10:10, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
With respect to Equatorial Guinea I do not agree, approximately 87.7% dominate Spanish.
Only as data or contributions:
Spanish is the second most used language in international communication.
In the Philippines, although the use of Spanish is still a small official language, it is being taught in numerous schools and universities around the country and is gradually increasing thanks to the initiative of the former President of the Philippines Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo and the Government of Spain. Actually It is the second most studied European language.
In Western Sahara, Spanish is the second official language, although not native. However, it is used both in the media and in the field of health, because the medical consultation instruments come from Cuba and Spain.
Sources:
- Gloria Nistal Rosique:El caso del español en Guinea ecuatorial, Instituto Cervantes
- Rafael Rodríguez-Ponga, "Nuevas perspectivas para la lengua española en Filipinas", Real Instituto Elcano, 2009
- http://www.educacionyfp.gob.es/filipinas/estudiar/en-filipinas.html
- Cf. Pilar Candela Romero, «El español en los compamentos de refugiados saharauis (Tinduf, Argelia)»
- El español: una lengua viva 2018 - Instituto Cervantes JamesOredan ( talk) 10:55, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
I think your analysis about the regions of Spain seems quite incorrect.
In Catalonia all Catalans speak, dominate and use Spanish on a daily basis. And by law, education and justice is given in Spanish, as well as in non-regional media, and official websites. The same applies to Galicia, the Basque Country, the Community of Madrid and the Balearic Islands.
And of course, English does not overcome or remotely threaten Spanish in Barcelona.
I recommend reading the Regional Statutes of Spain well. And it also does not mean any weakening of Spanish. A greeting. JamesOredan ( talk) 12:54, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
In fact, for most Catalans, Spanish is the main and most used native language, specifically for 4,061,900 Catalans, while Catalan is for 2,786,400 (including in both cases perfect bilinguals). The rest of the population spoke other languages as native. There is a total of 7.44 million inhabitants in Catalonia.
And for the rest of the Spanish regions with co-official languages, the difference is even greater in favor of Spanish.
Therefore, there is really no weakening of Spanish in Spain, perhaps a vain attempt by pro-independence parties to reduce Spanish in Catalonia, but it is not at all consolidated.
Source: Official demographic data of the Generalitat de Catalunya.
https://www.idescat.cat/pub/?id=ed JamesOredan ( talk) 13:09, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
It gives the feeling that you try to always look for a thread to throw away, and when it does not work out you try to find another one.
First of all, from the beginning you have tried to make completely erroneous statements without contrasting as the supposed weakening of Spanish as a language due to the supposed second place of Spanish in Catalonia and other autonomous communities with co-official languages, or Equatorial Guinea among others. .
And now you try to reduce my argument, suggesting that I only say that the Spanish language is more global than French because it has more speakers. French has only 80 million native speakers (really little) while Spanish has 400 million more, that's a reason, but it's not the only reason at all, although some derive from it.
I have given many more compelling reasons than just the largest number of speakers. Spanish is a global language speaking in many continents, but maybe I explained wrong, only I admit that French is spoken more in Africa, and its dispersion is greater in Asia (although it is very small), but the Spanish language is no longer a language less global than French. Because then I have added that French has lost its great influence in the Americas, mainly in the US, and I have also added arguments such as increased activity and use in the network, international communications, it is the global language that grows the most and second global language (Chinese is not) with greater weight in the world economy, ahead of French, etc. And if you read the criteria by which Wikipedia has classified the world languages there is clearly a greater compliance of them in favor of Spanish.
Contributing, of course, official sources.
For me, the conversation with you is finished.We have both given our opinion, I see no reason to continue answering.
A greeting. JamesOredan ( talk) 13:21, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
In Equatorial Guinea 87.7% of the population dominates the Spanish language and is an official language, which contradicts what you assumed. I already left you a source.
"I have heard of cases ..."
While you rely on assumptions and particular cases, I rely on official sources of the Generalitat de Catalunya itself. All Catalans speak and use Spanish fluently, and it is the most common vehicular language used in Catalonia, as well as the language in which most Catalans feel as native. Besides, neither is English any threat to the Spanish language in Barcelona as you also assumed.
I have named Galicia, Comunidad Valenciana (I say Comunidad de Madrid by mistake), Basque Country and the Balearic Islands because you assumed that in regions with another co-official, Spanish would be on the verge of co-official languages, which is also not true, Spanish is the dominant language by far in the regions with other official languages.
Now, definitely I will not continue the game anymore, it does not seem like it will lead to anything productive.
Greetings, have a good holiday. JamesOredan ( talk) 16:51, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
I am in favor of putting the Spanish language up. Reliable sources have been given quite clear as a differentiating factor, and the current Spanish map imposed does not make any sense and supposes a break of criteria with respect to the other maps.
EddTey (
talk)
22:01, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
The first criterion also states that it is necessary to have a large number of speakers, and the Spanish language has more than twice as many speakers as the French language, and each year the difference is more bulky.
EddTey (
talk) 22:08, 29 January 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
"[German] is the second most commonly used language on websites worldwide after English."
"[Russian is] the second most widespread language on the Internet after English."
The same source is cited for both quotes. The current order: English, Russian (6%), German (5.9%). I'd fix it myself, but semi-protected page and all.
Aforementioned source:
https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/content_language/all — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Even This Is Taken (
talk •
contribs)
22:21, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
There is one particular user that ranks Spanish higher than French under the " Living World Languages"
My views: I am wholly in support of French being in higher status than Spanish.
To conclude: So I thought if anyone or that particular user thinks that Spanish lanuguage deserves a higher position than French, they can state their opinions here.
Dajo767 ( talk) 11:30, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Yes, the Spanish language is more adapted to the established criteria. And there are sources that let it prove so. In other threads it has already been discussed.
EddTey (
talk) 14:25, 12 February 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Oh, again another thread. I have already discussed in other threads exactly this as Edd says. JamesOredan ( talk) 14:29, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
The only global language I think is the English language, and probably the Chinese in a few years. However, between French language and Spanish language I lean slightly for Spanish, its soplen by more people and is well distributed. SephirothBlade ( talk) 14:49, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
There are no reliable sources, with a certain prestige and truth that literally make a ranking of "globality" as if it were football teams.
There are statistics and data that help us classify languages according to the criteria established in WP.
I have used the official data and statistics of the Instituto Cervantes, which is one of the largest and most reliable world organization in the Spanish language.
I also add a reflection written by Mariana Escobar Gómez (Terminology Student, Visitor at TermCoord and Student at the University of Luxembourg) in the Terminology Coordination of the European Parliament (and supported by sources) on the subject.
http://termcoord.eu/2015/10/is-spanish-a-global-language/ JamesOredan ( talk) 16:47, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Of course there are reliable sources, like the ones I have presented. But they are statistics and data, not classifications.
The pyramid of David Graddol is from 1997, it is not really useful.
Sorting alphabetically seems strange to me. Although the current status seems to me the most correct. JamesOredan ( talk) 18:36, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
There is no violation because Instituto Cervantes, a reliable source widely used in Wikipedia, has been told many times. I do not think you are acting objectively and professionally.
While Oredan contributes sources and arguments you only dedicate yourself to make excuses almost without sense. In addition, the other user was allowed to change without any type of argument supported by sources the change of the Spanish language map.
There seems to be a bias.
EddTey (
talk)
21:09, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
In addition, the very argument you have made also serves to justify that the French language should be above.
EddTey (
talk)
21:11, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Errata: it does not serve to justify *
EddTey (
talk) 21:12, 12 February 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
The current status does not violate anything because the sources provided in the discussion are official. Please, do not fall into contradictions when literally it has been allowed to change the map of the Spanish language unilaterally and furtively without any source. JamesOredan ( talk) 21:44, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Obumaya - According to /info/en/?search=Tamilakam the area where Old Tamil was spoken, was not particularly extensive. -- DLMcN ( talk) 15:42, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
I changed the lower number of french native speakers, from 65 M to 80 M and deleted the reference since it stated a number of 51 M inhabitants in France, although it is now more than 10 years that the popuation of France outreached 60 M. You must add the 2 M French living abroad, a part of Belgium, Switzerland, and Canada at least, whose french language cannot be denied. The total number must count a variable part of the population of the french speaking countries of Africa, where French may not be the first language of all the population.
A reference with numbers dating from the ealy 80's is not a reference in demographics matters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.13.218.83 ( talk) 21:25, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Some French fanatic wrote 500 million of French speakers. According to the same Francophonie, the French speakers are some 200 million. Spanish, according to the Instituto Cervantes, are some 500 million speakers.
Hi, I would like to request an edit. The map showing countries who speaks french includes Equatorial Guinea, a Spanish speaking country or at least non French speaking. My request is therefore to change Equatorial Guinea to grey on that map. Rafa1239 ( talk) 00:50, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
/info/en/?search=World_language#/media/File:New-Map-Francophone_World.svg has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Soumya - Following my post in your personal Talk-File, namely:
[Inserting an Edit Summary] would tell us more about why you are making certain changes. [At least one] of your edits [here] in "World Language" has been with items which I personally inserted, and it would be helpful and illuminating to know what exactly your reasoning is. In addition, have you ever considered coming in to [this] article's Talk-File to explain beforehand what you think should be added (or subtracted) from the main article? > thereby inviting other editors to comment and to make alternative suggestions? … (^This has been modified slightly, partly to allow for its transfer to this site).
In particular, in the new map showing where Spanish is spoken, it would be relevant to mention a source from which the figures for the USA were taken. Incidentally, I would suggest that the "5-9%" category is unnecessary. Is there really no "20-25%" category? - (If there are indeed no states with those figures, then that should perhaps be explained).
Both the English and French maps distinguish countries (or areas, i.e. different parts of Canada) where other languages also carry official status. The Spanish map which used to feature in this article, adopted this approach with Spain, Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay, and a few other places.
Regards, -- DLMcN ( talk) 15:43, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
World language has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I will replace the heavily biased image of the Hispanophone world with the one from " https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Detailed_SVG_map_of_the_Hispanophone_world.svg." IMacintoshPlus ( talk) 07:11, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
IamNotU is correct that is my fault. You can disregard the bill that didn’t pass as the US does not have a stated official language. Galendalia Talk to me CVU Graduate 02:44, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
Jacques Leclerc, an expert on linguistic legislation who cites hundreds (if not thousands) of pertinent laws in over 400 countries and territories worldwide, lists 38 places where Spanish is official but none of the US states is among them, see also his pages on linguistic policies in the US. As public authorities are the only ones who are bound by official language status this is of little consequence for world language status, though. Love — LiliCharlie ( talk) 05:11, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
The map for the distribution of the Spanish language seems to far exaggerate the presence of Spanish in the United States and Canada. For example several Canadian provinces are marked as having "between 10 and 20 percent Spanish speakers"; but a quick check of the relevant Wikipedia pages shows that the true figure is less than 2 percent (ON, QC) or even less than 1 percent (BC). For the United States, the map seems to shade according to the Hispanic/Latino population in these states. This ignores the fact that many people of Hispanic origin do not speak Spanish natively, or speak it co-natively with English and are more proficient in English, or simply don't speak Spanish to a high level. Many non-hispanic people do not speak Spanish fluently, despite possibly having Spanish education. The U.S. census bureau estimates the only states where more than 10% of people "primarily or only speak Spanish", are California and Texas. A handful more are between 5 - 10%. I suggest changing the map to this one — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nuiop733 ( talk • contribs) 13:43, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
Portuguese should be listed with English, French and Spanish. Actually, there are more native Portuguese speakers than there are of French. Portuguese is spoken officially on 5 continents - not even Spanish has this geographic global reach as an official language. Apart from being spoken officially spoken in Spain, Spanish is mostly spoken officially in the Americas. Brazil alone has the 5th biggest economy in the world. 51% of the speakers in South America speaks Portuguese. Angola has the 3rd strongest economy is Africa right now - Mozambique is not far behind (both countries are rich in oil, gold, diamonds, coffee, sugar, and many other precious metals. At this moment China is the main trading partner of Brazil, Angola and Mozambique - in fact, all of the 10 Portuguese speaking nations. CPLP (Community of Portuguese Speaking Countries) even has its own Olympic Games and India is a member. In fact, numerous countries in the world want membership in the CPLP e.g. Australia, Indonesia, Philippines, Peru, Venezuela, Turkey, Japan, Senegal, Namibia, etc. This is a clear indication of the economic importance of the Portuguese language in the world, and it is only getting stronger everyday. So much so that many countries in the world are learning Portuguese as a favourite 2nd language e.g., China, Japan, Venezuela, South Africa, Senegal, etc. Even the Spaniards are enthusiastically learning Portuguese! Please give Portuguese its due respect, recognition, and position as a true world language - it's spoken all over the world by 280 million people. It is spoken officially on 5 continents, is the 3rd most spoken European language, is the 3rd most spoken language of the Americas, and the most spoken language of the Southern Hemisphere! The Portuguese language more than meets the parameters of a world language as you have indicated. I will indicate whether or not Portuguese meets the criteria with a simple yes or no and a brief example:
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.25.147 ( talk) 14:34, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
I put it here because I felt that it would give my contribution more visibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.25.147 ( talk) 12:48, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
This needs to be revised. Why does it show light blue over France? and dark blue over the Philippines? I would also modify or reduce its coverage in parts of the USA ... (Surely it is not used all that much in Alaska?) ... In addition, it is misleading to extend it over the whole of Morocco -- DLMcN ( talk) 03:46, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
I prefer the old map, because it is more complete and shows the dispersion of Spanish with different degrees of blue.
By the way, Spanish is official throughout the Penisula Iberica, and as you have already been told is the main language used by Spaniards, including Catalans.
After reading what you have written, without any kind of source about Spain, I do not trust your map. And even if 24 hours pass without any message, it does not really mean anything.
EddTey (
talk)
09:37, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
The official language of Ecuador is the Spanish language, there is no other official language in Ecuador.
Kichwa (Quichua), Shuar and others are in use for indigenous peoples. They are recognized regional languages for the Native Americans of Ecuador, but it is not an official language of the country.
EddTey (
talk) 09:57, 6 January 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
https://www.uoc.edu/euromosaic/web/document/catala/an/i1/i1.html and https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/is-catalonia-using-schools-as-a-political-weapon/544898/
I think you're pretty confused on the subject.
The only official language of Spain is Spanish. Catalan, Galician and Euskera are co-official. For this reason, Spain as a whole is identified as a country whose Spanish language is official throughout the territory, including regions with other co-official languages.
The United Kingdom has regions such as Scotland which, in addition to the English language, are co-official, the Scottish language and the Gaelic language, and the entire United Kingdom is identified as a country whose English language is official throughout the territory, despite the fact that there are places with other languages. The same applies to Bolivia and Peru.
Using different criteria for the Spanish language seems to me an error and a personal whim of you.
With regard to Catalonia, I think the data from the Generalitat de Catalunya is much more reliable than what you have offered.
Thank you.
EddTey (
talk) 10:40, 6 January 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
If you look at the map of the English language, in the United Kingdom the whole country is shown in a single color.
Why? Basically, the official language of the United Kingdom is the English language, although Scottish and Gaelic are also official languages in Scotland. In Spain the same thing happens, but you are determined to follow a different criterion in a unilateral and meaningless way.
The current map of the Spanish language only shows areas where the Spanish language is official, avoiding areas where Spanish enjoys a large number of speakers. That is why the previous map is more complete, because it shows areas where Spanish is a significantly spoken language, not just where it is official. The map of the French and English language is identical to the one you have deleted, so it does not make any sense what you are doing.
With regard to the rest, I do not know at what moment I have insulted you or any user. I think you should calm down and stop acting unilaterally and without providing useful and reliable sources.
EddTey (
talk) 18:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
The previous map is more extensive and complete, is in line with the maps of the French and English languages (They are from the same creator), they show significant areas of use of the Spanish language in unofficial areas.
I will have to revert to the previously agreed map until a broad consensus in favor of the new map is established.
Blade and the rest (
talk) 12:26, 17 March 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan. --
IamNotU (
talk)
16:37, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
@ DLMcN: The map showing that Spanish is "only" co-official in Ecuador and Catalonia is definitely the one that is most appropriate for our purposes, as it is more in line with the maps for English and French.
And yes, although article 3 (1) of the Spanish constitution stipulates that "Castilian is the official Spanish language of the State. All Spaniards have the duty to know it and the right to use it." all autonomous regions where Castilian is merely co-official alongside "other Spanish languages" according to paragraph (2) of the same article should be marked as such. Love — LiliCharlie ( talk) 09:50, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
-- DLMcN ( talk) 12:33, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
This article is full of stupidity and lies.
How could the guardian of this article remove Russian, Arabic, and Chinese as world languages. Besides the reference for the total number of Spanish speakers were taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Language#Geographic_Distribution which is obviously a not reliable source.
It's obvious that the caretaker of this article is a Hispanic, the same person who caused the closing of a language forum by posting nasty lies against French, German, Russian, and even Italian, Portuguese and English just to uplift his beloved Spanish.
Take note on his criteria of a world language
Some sources define a living world language as having the following properties:
1. a large number of speakers
2. a substantial fraction of non-native speakers (function as lingua franca)
3. official status in several countries
4. a linguistic community not defined strictly along ethnic lines (multiethnic, pluricentric language)
5. one or more standard registers which are widely taught as a foreign language
6. association with linguistic prestige
7. use in international trade relations
8. use in international organizations
9. use in the academic community
10. significant body of literature
He used "properties" instead of "criteria". Wrong usage of word.
Spanish does not fit in criteria 2, 6, 9, and 10 Russian fits in criteria 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, and 10 Arabic in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 10
So Russian and Arabic are more rightful to be called world language than Spanish since garnered just six out of ten criteria while Russian nine and Arabic seven.
As for Chinese, it may only fit on the criteria 1, 2, and 10 but it has the largest number of native speakers.
Another flaw in this article is French has just 68 million speakers. France has a population of 62 million and 100% of its people speak French. Canada has 10 million native speakers of French, Belgium 4.5 million, Switzerland 1.5 million, US 2 M, DOM-TOM 4 million plus its millions of speakers in Africa as first language.
Surely, this articles favors the Spanish language so much and the caretaker of this article wants the whole world believe that Spanish is behind English. The truth is French and English are the only true global languages. German is also a true global language. German fullfils the criteria 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 and 10 of a world language. Please, German a world language? only in central europe is relevant — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.86.109.13 ( talk) 19:31, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
There is no world language, (Esperanto does not count because it is not spoken by the common of the people in any country) except a world lingua franca, which is English, you can not say that English is a world language because if you see the world map, you can go perfectly from Portugal to Japan, that is, cross all continental eurasia in a straight line (without passing through India and Pakistan) and jump to Japan without encountering a single country that has english as official language, equally if you add Maghreb plus the Middle East, you can cross that vast territory without finding a single country that has English as official, I mean, from Morocco to Afghanistan; neither the continental Southest Asia and Indonesia, the same occurs with Latin America, except for Belize and Guyana, you can go from Tijuana to Cape Horn without speaking a word of English. Even in many countries that has english as official, the people who lives in slums or those who have not had access to an academic education, would talk to you in their national language for example in India, Philippines (tagalo), many countries of Africa with their native languages, quite the opposite of what happens in a favela in Brazil for example, all of them would talk to you in portuguese, or in a champa in central america, all the people there would talk to you in spanish. The wiki in french set down International language, instead of world language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.86.109.13 ( talk) 19:25, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
The following is a response to 190.86.109.13's above contribution before they altered it — see version history for their original wording |
The following is a response to a contribution by 190.86.109.13 that they later deleted — see version history for what they had written |
Spanish is a World language like French and English. Or you add Spanish as World language or only English can be considered a World language, and French should be removed.
Spanish is spoken as mother tongue by 425 million people. French only by 75 million people. Spanish wins
Spanish is spoken by 575 million as total speakers. French only by 275 million people. Spanish wins.
Spanish is really spoken by a majority of the population (at least 51% of the population as mother tongue) in more than 20 countries. French only in France and Monaco. Spanish wins.
Spanish and French are official languages in the United Nations, UNESCO, FAO, WHO, etc. Same importance
Spanish speaking countries (including 55 million in the USA) have a total GDP higher than all French speaking countries. Spanish wins.
In short, English, Spanish and French are World languages or only English. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
91.250.156.251 (
talk)
11:21, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Should we try and weight this[i.e., official status in several countries]
according to how important the various countries are?— No we shouldn't. For one thing, we mustn't engage in original research. Plus "weighing countries" instead of languages would require countries to be monolingual. This is obviously not the case, however, and it would be absurd to say that the importance, economic or other, of Canada, Switzerland or Belgium is attributable to French. (And that's what World languages are all about: A world that isn't monolingual at all.) Also one shouldn't overestimate that criterion: If half of South America is Portuguese-speaking in one country and most of the other half is Spanish-speaking in many this is mere poltical coincidence and would drastically change the day Brazil were to fall apart, as happened to (for instance) the USSR, Yugoslavia, and the British Empire. Love — LiliCharlie ( talk) 12:58, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
Hi, without wanting to provoke a dispute, just remember that spanish is, same as french, spoken in four continents, obviously America and Europe, but also in Africa (Equatorial Guinea) and Ocenia (Easter Island, in Polynesia, belonging to Chile) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.86.109.13 ( talk) 19:00, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
Use across several regions in the world. We should consider all continents:
1- North America: Spanish wins clearly
2. Europe: French wins
3. Central America and Caribbean: Spanish wins clearly
4. South America: Spanish wins clearly
5. Africa: French wins clearly
6. Asia: none
7. Oceania: French wins
8. Antarctica: Spanish wins.
On the whole. Spanish is spoken in North America, Central America, Europe, South America and Antarctica. Minorities in Africa, Asia and Oceania
OTOH, French is spoken in Quebec, Europe and Africa. Minorities in South America, Asia and Oceania.
In short, French has not a wider global coverage. Both have an important global coverage.
Association with linguistic prestige This is a subjective point. It is irrelevant. Spanish has more prestige for a lot of people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsn-B8r5Vh0 https://www.eliberico.com/el-espanol-se-consolida-como-el-idioma-favorito-de-los-estudiantes-ingleses/ https://www.larazon.es/cultura/el-espanol-es-con-diferencia-el-idioma-mas-estudiado-en-estados-unidos-KA25259333/
Use in international organizations We should consider all WORLD organizations and see if French and Spanish are official languages or not. In almost all the World organizations French and Spanish are official: United Nations, FAO, UNESCO, WHO, etc. NATO is NOT a World organization. It should not be considered. So, both are important, both are World languages. https://www.spanishgurus.com/blog/international-organizations-use-spanish/ https://iusport.com/art/109037/el-tas-y-la-batalla-del-idioma-espanol-un-reconocimiento-merecido
The discussion above is well nigh meaningless and violates WP:NOTAFORUM. Whether some user thinks Spanish or French is more important is utterly irrelevant. We go by sources here, not original research. I propose an admin closes the discussion unless the level improves significantly. Jeppiz ( talk) 16:41, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
But are we still going to use the criteria set out at...?
If so, then that will make success even more unlikely.
Or will it be necessary to drastically restructure the entire text?
Some sources that show the importance of Spanish:
1. Spanish is the second language in Facebook and Twitter https://www.elmundo.es/cultura/2014/06/21/53a57e2fca474134578b4571.html
2. Economic power of Spanish language. Instituto Cervantes report. 6.4% of World GDP. Better than the GDP of French speakers and German speakers https://www.cedro.org/blog/articulo/blog.cedro.org/2017/09/12/el-espanol-en-el-mundo
3. Future of the language. According to Instituto Cervantes Spanish will be spoken by 754 million in 2050 https://www.cedro.org/blog/articulo/blog.cedro.org/2017/02/14/en-2050-los-hispanohablantes-llegaran-a-754-millones
4. Spanish in science. Spanish is third language in publication of scientific magazines https://www.cedro.org/blog/articulo/blog.cedro.org/2017/09/12/el-espanol-en-el-mundo
5. Finally, Spanish is third language in Internet. French is only seventh. https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm
@ Jeppiz: I agree an admin should close this discussion. Again and again users seem urged to "prove" the "importance" of their language, and their ad hoc reasoning is incompatible with the most basic of our guidelines. (Also, this is not a list of languages by importance or a list of lingua francas, but an article on how the term world language has been used in academic literature, as opposed to universal language, lingua franca, international auxiliary language, etc.) Love — LiliCharlie ( talk) 17:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
I am raising this topic to seek consensus on moving the Spanish language from the stricter category, to the broader category of Living World Languages, with Chinese and Arabic. English and French are, in my current understanding, have undeniable consensus among all scholars as current world languages. Although undeniably Spanish as a wider reach, globally, it does not possess universal consensus as English and French does. So it belongs in the list with Chinese, Arabic and Russian, as these languages are regarded as World Languages in the expanded list of World Languages, but not in the strictest list. Only English and French currently belong in the strictest list presently. Dajo767 ( talk) 17:29, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
NEUTRAL PEOPLE?
It is obvious that Spanish is more important than French in some points. OTOH, French surpasses Spanish in others. However, on the whole, they are both world languages and they have similar importance. It seems that the person who wants to remove Spanish as a world language (spoken by 485 million as mother tongue) and not French (a language spoken by hardly 85 million people as mother tongue) is strange, and it is at least suspected "of friendship" with the French government. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.28.115.237 ( talk) 10:25, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
That is easy. Spanish, English and French are official language in a lot of World organizations where Russian, Arabic, Portuguese or Chinese are not official: World Trade Organization, International Telecommunication Union, International Maritime Organization, International Labour Organization, Interpol, FIFA, World Rugby Organization, Court of Arbitration for Sport, etc. In all the World organizations Spanish is official or at least there is a compulsory simultaneous interpretation to Spanish.
Besides, Spanish is official in the United Nations (World), NAFTA (North America), the European Union and OSCE (Europe), Central American Integration System (Central America), CARICOM (Caribbean) African Union (Africa), Mercosur and UNASUR (South America), Antarctic Treaty (Antarctica) and in APEC (Asia and Pacific) is not official but Spanish can be used.
Arabic, Russian, Chinese and Portuguese are not official in ALL these organizations. And that is solid proof that Spanish is a World language.''''Bold text
World language comparison chart
We need to compare these languages to show the strengths and weaknesses of world languages
ENGLISH DIPLOMATIC LANGUAGE 1 INTERNET 1 ECONOMIC POWER 1 NUMBER OF SPEAKERS 1 COUNTRIES 1 AVERAGE 1
SPANISH 3 3 3 3 4 AVERAGE 3.2
ARABIC 4 4 4 6 3 AVERAGE 4.2
FRENCH 2 7 7 5 2 AVERAGE 4.6
CHINESE 6 2 2 2 COUNTRIES 13 AVERAGE 5
PORTUGUESE 7 6 10 9 5 AVERAGE 7.4
RUSSIAN 5 9 9 8 9 AVERAGE 8
We see that English is first in all the fields: the most important diplomatic language, the most used in internet, economic power (GDP), number of total speakers, number of countries where the language is official.
The second language is Spanish: third as diplomatic language, third in internet, third in economic power, third in speakers and fourth in countries.
Third language is Arabic. French is fourth, Chinese is fifth, Portuguese is sixth and Russian is seventh.
Sources: Total speakers
/info/en/?search=List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers
Countries /info/en/?search=List_of_languages_by_the_number_of_countries_in_which_they_are_recognized_as_an_official_language Economic power (GDP) https://alexika.com/blog/2018/11/29/top-business-languages-of-the-world Diplomatic power /info/en/?search=List_of_official_languages_by_institution Top ten Internet languages https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.250.156.251 ( talk) 18:30, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
Officially German ONLY in Europe, Spanish in Europe, America, Africa (Equatorial Guinea) and Oceania (Easter Island )
Well, responding, yes spanish is official in four continents in Africa (Equatorial Guinea) and in Oceania (Easter Island) how German could compare? German is official ONLY in Europe, the constitution of Namibia not even mention it, the opposite it does the constitution of Philippines as optional language with the spanish, spanish is spread in four continents with more of 12 million square kilometers, and german? not even in five hundred thousand kilometers are spread and just in ONE continent, and if I express my opinion is because yes, I know what I am talking, so German cames after, so English, French, Spanish, Russian, Arabic, Portuguese and Mandarin, in that order, are more important than German — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.86.109.13 ( talk) 23:00, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:24, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
1. French language is not spoken in Asia: it is not spoken in Vietnam, Laos, or Kampuchea. In short, French has been collapsing very fast in Asia
2. It is questionable whether any Africans will be speaking French in a few decades. It is not spoken in Rwanda. In Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania and Tunisia is a second language and its decline has continued, including the recent closure of French schools, as Arabic and English become the standard. In other African countries is spoken as a second language by minorities.
3. French has also seen a drastic decline in North America. In the U.S., between 1990 and 1995, college applicants for French class declined by twenty-four percent. You can live now in Quebec speaking English.
4. Across Europe, French has gradually declined from being the lingua franca to falling behind German and English. And French has fallen so far behind in Eastern Europe, in particular, that it is the third-most studied language, behind English and Spanish.
5. The calamitous decline in French seems irreversible, even to the French. English is now the language of business in Europe, a fact which even French ambassador for international investment Clara Gaymard was forced to admit.
Sources: https://www.newgeography.com/content/002387-the-decline-and-fall-french-language https://www.newgeography.com/content/002387-the-decline-and-fall-french-language
So, English is a World language, and perhaps Spanish and Mandarin Chinese, but NOT French. A language hardly spoken by 85 million people around the World. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.28.115.237 ( talk) 07:57, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
I am tired of some sockpuppets who are editing this article. Especially user JamesOredan . He keeps resurfacing with duplicate / socks to promote the Spanish language over French. Each sock he creates have generally low contribution rate to Wikipedia, before he starts his propoganda edits for the Spanish language or the Spanish nation. This article alone has been repeatedly vandalised by his socks. The latest one I suspect is from another suspected sock called Circadue on 23 August, 2020. I request the administrators or someone who has contact with a wikipedia administrator to extend protect this article, so as to only allow users with 500 plus edits to make further changes to this page. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dajo767 ( talk • contribs) 11:11, 25 August 2020 (UTC) Dajo767 ( talk) 11:14, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
( Personal attack removed) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.86.109.13 ( talk) 03:08, 26 August 2020 (UTC) struck out comment of a sockpuppet of banned user JamesOredan. Dajo767 ( talk) 09:22, 26 August 2020 (UTC) -- Removed entirely per WP:RPA. TompaDompa ( talk) 10:02, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Can somebody please update Macedonia into North Macedonia in this section of the Turkish language. I can't do it myself as I am a new user.
"Recognized minority language in: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia, Romania, Iraq, Greece, Republic of Kosovo" -- StoyanStoyanov80 ( talk) 13:43, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you -- StoyanStoyanov80 ( talk) 14:26, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
In my opinion and understanding, German language must be moved down to "Other supra-regional" languages (third) category/table, instead of remaining in, as of today, the second category/table. Thoughts? Dajo767 ( talk) 11:34, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
I will hazard to write that you may have misunderstood me. I was calling for views on the subject of German language's position in the second table. I believe the position of the German language belongs in the third and last table with supraregional languages such as Dutch and Italian. Dajo767 ( talk) 17:32, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
I know you like playing word games and grammer games. Please give it a rest. If you got to say something, talk about the subject of this heading. Otherwise please find some other place in wikipedia to waste your time. Dajo767 ( talk) 21:07, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
@ Dajo767 and Jeppiz: I am puzzled as to why you think your particular categorization and ordering of world and supra-regional languges, is consistent with TompaDompa's presentation of various relevant sources (see above). Regards, -- DLMcN ( talk) 02:42, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
@ DLMcN: I do not. I think it is a bad idea to have an arrangement where French is on the same table or group with other languages except English. I offered my reasoning above. Dajo767 ( talk) 11:06, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
I'm adding this comment to both this section and the #Spanish language is also a World language section. I would categorize and phrase it like this: English is universally considered a world language. French is generally, usually, or often considered a world language. Spanish is occasionally or sometimes considered a world language. Portuguese is rarely considered a world language. The other languages are generally not considered world languages. TompaDompa ( talk) 22:27, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
1. Spanish language is spoken by 580 million people worldwide. It is the mother tongue of 480 million people, second in the World
2. Spanish language is spoken by 60 million in the USA and by 80 million in the European Union, as first or second language
3. Spanish language is official language in the United Nations, NAFTA (North America), Central American Common Market, European Union, Mercosur, African Union, Antarctic Treatry and in APEC (Asia-Pacificl) is not official but it can be used. It is official (or at least compulsory translation) in all the World organizations
4. Spanish language is second world language in Twitter and Facebook. It is third in Internet (users), after English and Mandarin Chinese
5. Spanish language is spoken in more than 40 countries worldwide (all the continents).
6. Spanish language is third most important language by GDP, after Mandarin and English.
Sources:
https://www.cervantes.es/sobre_instituto_cervantes/prensa/2019/noticias/presentacion_anuario_madrid.htm,
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idioma_espa%C3%B1ol,
https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm,
https://alexika.com/blog/2018/11/29/top-business-languages-of-the-world
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.28.115.237 ( talk) 08:06, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Anyway, the article currently cites several sources. Let's review what they say, shall we?
Fischer Weltalmanach describes world languages as languages that extend far beyond their national boundaries and make it possible for members of different language communities to communicate (roughly, a native speaker of German would probably be able to provide a better translation), and equates world language (Weltsprache) with international lingua franca (Verkehrssprache). It discusses the history of several languages and notes that English has been the dominant Verkehrssprache worldwide since World War II. It notes that Spanish, Portuguese, and French have intercontinental distribution whereas Mandarin Chinese, Hindi, Arabic, Russian, Bengali, Malay, German, and Japanese barely extend beyond their immediate geographic surroundings (again, roughly).
Encyclopedia of Bilingualism and Bilingual Education – under the heading "Major world languages", this source says that English is often regarded as the main international language of the world, but several other languages have traversed the boundaries of the regions or countries where they were originally spoken, and are used internationally, either as first of second languages.
before discussing German, Dutch, Portuguese, Spanish, French, Arabic, Russian, and Chinese (page 302–306). The source also briefly discusses "The political dominance of English as a world language" (page 332).
One Language for the World says that Russian, like Chinese, Hindustani, and Bengali, is landlocked. A landlocked language, as long as it remains so, cannot be a world language.
(page 15). It also says that Speakers of Chinese outnumber those of English two to one, but they are rather inconveniently located within the boundaries of China, a large and important country, but one which constitutes only a fraction of one continent. English, on the other hand, enjoys widespread distribution throughout the globe. […] It is a language that has been learned by many who do not have it as a native tongue, so that you find people who speak it almost everywhere you may travel. This distributional advantage more than offsets the numerical superiority of Chinese.
(page 13), and Second only to English in distributional power is French. Though endowed with only about 80 million native speakers, it is practically as widespread as English. […] Like English, French can be used almost anywhere.
(page 13–14), while noting that Spanish, by way of contrast, is largely limited to the Western Hemisphere, though its homeland is in Europe.
and Portuguese is also primarily a Western Hemisphere language […]
(both page 14). It ponders Is it possible to establish a hierarchy of distribution, as we established one of numbers? In such a hierarchy, we would have to list English and French at the very top, then arrange Arabic, Spanish, Russian, Portuguese, German in a second division, and end up with the more localised tongues, Chinese, Indonesian, Italian, Hindustani, Japanese, Bengali.
(page 16). There is also some discussion about the history of different languages' historical status as world languages or aspirations to attain such status on page 101–105, dealing mainly but not exclusively with French and English.
Status and Function of Languages and Language Varieties says By the term world language approximately the following can be understood: Firstly, languages that meet the requirement of the greatest possible distribution outside their area where they are spoken as national languages. Among these there are at present English, French, Spanish and Russian (cf. Frohne 1976: 728; Häusler 1982: 271—274). Secondly, international planned languages (e.g Esperanto, Ido, Interlingua).
and terms the latter category auxiliary world languages (page 422). The same page also contains discussion about the term "
universal language". The source furthermore says English, and to a lesser degree also French, serve as vehicles of stereotyping views about Western lifestyles (i.e. English as the symbol of modernity, French as the symbol of elegance, and female elegance in particular) in many communities where these world languages are foreign.
while discussing Japanese settings (page 189). Frohne 1976 is Zu den Kriterien der soziolinguistischen Kategorie "Weltsprache" and Häusler 1982 is Zur Problematik Der Weltsprachen im 20. Jahrhundert, in case anybody wants to do further research.
A World Federation of Cultures: An African Perspective says that Russian, Chinese, and Arabic "are not yet world languages but deserve to be promoted and developed for such a role in the near future" (page 474). It also says that German and Japanese are not world languages but a regional and a national one, respectively (page 476). Moreover, it says that to qualify as a world language, a tongue must command at least 100 million speakers, or 5 percent of the population of the world, whichever is higher, and must have been adopted by at least ten states as a national language
as well as the Russian language is clearly intraregional, and therefore a regional rather than a world language.
(both from page 333). I think it also says that English, French, and Spanish are world languages on page 333, but since I can only access fragments I can't say for sure. If we really want to find out, we could ask for help at
WP:RESOURCES.
I think the following is a fair way to summarize these sources: English is the dominant world language, universally considered to be one, and by the absolutely strictest interpretation of the term, it is the only one. French ranks just below English, usually considered one even when the term is used strictly. Spanish and to a lesser degree also Portuguese belong to a lower category, being considered world languages by a non-strict (but not loose) interpretation of the term. Russian, German, Arabic, and Chinese are only considered world languages when the term is interpreted loosely (which would be a third tier).
You may disagree with that reading of the sources, and that's fine. The important thing here is that when we strive to summarize the sources like this, any disagreement will be based on the sources rather than personal opinion. And of course, if we survey even more sources it is likely that the picture that emerges will be slightly different. TompaDompa ( talk) 05:45, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
So complicated to me if French wins over spanish, only in Asia neither of the two languages is spoken.
French language is spoken in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and Lebanon BY MINORITIES. People in these countries study English, and French is really desappearing.
Well, mister wisdom, so spanish is present too, because the Constitution of Philippines in Art XIV Section 6 "Spanish and Arabic shall be promoted on a voluntary and optional basis"; and who the hell are you ? Isaac Newton?
I apologize with you I was only saying that because this is a free discussion.
Please consult List of languages by the number of countries in which they are recognized as an official language and List of official languages by institution Dajo767 ( talk) 18:19, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
As note regarding the discussion above, and especially directed to the IP: this talk page is not for discussions about what language anyone here thinks should qualify as a world language. That is entirely irrelevant, and a prime example of WP:OR. What we are concerned with is here is which languages reliable sources describe as "world language". Please feel free to present reliable sources. Any further arguments saying that this or that user thinks this or that language should be included could be removed as per WP:NOTAFORUM. Jeppiz ( talk) 22:35, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
In many relevant areas French language (My native language) has lost much influence, widely recognized in previous decades as a very relevant diplomatic language has lost much influence in favor of English and giving way to others such as Spanish language.
- It has six times more native speakers than French.
- It has more than twice as many speakers as French.
- Both languages are globally distributed, both natively and non-native.
- Both French and Spanish are official in major international organizations, although French is official NATO as a point in favor.
- The Spanish language is the world's fastest growing global language
- It is the third most used language on the Net after English and Chinese
- The contribution of the whole of the Spanish-speaking countries to the GDP (Gross Domestic Product) worldwide is 6.9%. This percentage is higher than that generated by countries that have French as their official language. In the case of Spanish, the common language multiplies by four the bilateral exports between the Spanish-speaking countries.
- In the United States, Spanish is the most studied language in all levels of education. In the United Kingdom, Spanish is perceived as the most important language for the future. In the European Union, France, Sweden and Denmark stand out especially for the study of Spanish as a foreign language.
Source: https://www.cervantes.es/sobre_instituto_cervantes/prensa/2018/noticias/np_presentacion-anuario.htm JamesOredan ( talk) 22:39, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
1-The Cervantes Institute is an official source, from which its data are taken as true, because it is the largest organ of regulation and analysis of the Spanish language together with the RAEA.
2-It's not original research, it's official data that I literally have transited.
3- My objective is not to defend whether or not it is a world language, which evidently is, and this is established in consensus in this article. I affirm that it occupies "the second place", above the. French and behind English.
Thank you. JamesOredan ( talk) 00:26, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
In fact, Instituto Cervantes is the primary source used by Wikipedia in articles related to the number of Spanish speakers, the Hispanosphere and the Hispanic culture. JamesOredan ( talk) 00:47, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
We really agree on a lot of what you have written, it is true that Spanish is less expanded than French in Asia and Africa, but really the difference is not that it implies a clear change. In addition, French is increasingly lost in America because the Spanish language is the first language studied in the US, when until a few decades ago it was the French par excellence.
For me, the biggest point in favor of French against Spanish is that the first is an official of NATO and the Spanish language is not, despite being official in most important international organizations.
I consider nevertheless that the Spanish-speaking sphere, although it is less global than the francophone sphere, has many more speakers and is a more active collective and with a greater weight in the global economy.
That among the other arguments above contributed by Instituo Cervantes says it all. JamesOredan ( talk) 10:10, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
With respect to Equatorial Guinea I do not agree, approximately 87.7% dominate Spanish.
Only as data or contributions:
Spanish is the second most used language in international communication.
In the Philippines, although the use of Spanish is still a small official language, it is being taught in numerous schools and universities around the country and is gradually increasing thanks to the initiative of the former President of the Philippines Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo and the Government of Spain. Actually It is the second most studied European language.
In Western Sahara, Spanish is the second official language, although not native. However, it is used both in the media and in the field of health, because the medical consultation instruments come from Cuba and Spain.
Sources:
- Gloria Nistal Rosique:El caso del español en Guinea ecuatorial, Instituto Cervantes
- Rafael Rodríguez-Ponga, "Nuevas perspectivas para la lengua española en Filipinas", Real Instituto Elcano, 2009
- http://www.educacionyfp.gob.es/filipinas/estudiar/en-filipinas.html
- Cf. Pilar Candela Romero, «El español en los compamentos de refugiados saharauis (Tinduf, Argelia)»
- El español: una lengua viva 2018 - Instituto Cervantes JamesOredan ( talk) 10:55, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
I think your analysis about the regions of Spain seems quite incorrect.
In Catalonia all Catalans speak, dominate and use Spanish on a daily basis. And by law, education and justice is given in Spanish, as well as in non-regional media, and official websites. The same applies to Galicia, the Basque Country, the Community of Madrid and the Balearic Islands.
And of course, English does not overcome or remotely threaten Spanish in Barcelona.
I recommend reading the Regional Statutes of Spain well. And it also does not mean any weakening of Spanish. A greeting. JamesOredan ( talk) 12:54, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
In fact, for most Catalans, Spanish is the main and most used native language, specifically for 4,061,900 Catalans, while Catalan is for 2,786,400 (including in both cases perfect bilinguals). The rest of the population spoke other languages as native. There is a total of 7.44 million inhabitants in Catalonia.
And for the rest of the Spanish regions with co-official languages, the difference is even greater in favor of Spanish.
Therefore, there is really no weakening of Spanish in Spain, perhaps a vain attempt by pro-independence parties to reduce Spanish in Catalonia, but it is not at all consolidated.
Source: Official demographic data of the Generalitat de Catalunya.
https://www.idescat.cat/pub/?id=ed JamesOredan ( talk) 13:09, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
It gives the feeling that you try to always look for a thread to throw away, and when it does not work out you try to find another one.
First of all, from the beginning you have tried to make completely erroneous statements without contrasting as the supposed weakening of Spanish as a language due to the supposed second place of Spanish in Catalonia and other autonomous communities with co-official languages, or Equatorial Guinea among others. .
And now you try to reduce my argument, suggesting that I only say that the Spanish language is more global than French because it has more speakers. French has only 80 million native speakers (really little) while Spanish has 400 million more, that's a reason, but it's not the only reason at all, although some derive from it.
I have given many more compelling reasons than just the largest number of speakers. Spanish is a global language speaking in many continents, but maybe I explained wrong, only I admit that French is spoken more in Africa, and its dispersion is greater in Asia (although it is very small), but the Spanish language is no longer a language less global than French. Because then I have added that French has lost its great influence in the Americas, mainly in the US, and I have also added arguments such as increased activity and use in the network, international communications, it is the global language that grows the most and second global language (Chinese is not) with greater weight in the world economy, ahead of French, etc. And if you read the criteria by which Wikipedia has classified the world languages there is clearly a greater compliance of them in favor of Spanish.
Contributing, of course, official sources.
For me, the conversation with you is finished.We have both given our opinion, I see no reason to continue answering.
A greeting. JamesOredan ( talk) 13:21, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
In Equatorial Guinea 87.7% of the population dominates the Spanish language and is an official language, which contradicts what you assumed. I already left you a source.
"I have heard of cases ..."
While you rely on assumptions and particular cases, I rely on official sources of the Generalitat de Catalunya itself. All Catalans speak and use Spanish fluently, and it is the most common vehicular language used in Catalonia, as well as the language in which most Catalans feel as native. Besides, neither is English any threat to the Spanish language in Barcelona as you also assumed.
I have named Galicia, Comunidad Valenciana (I say Comunidad de Madrid by mistake), Basque Country and the Balearic Islands because you assumed that in regions with another co-official, Spanish would be on the verge of co-official languages, which is also not true, Spanish is the dominant language by far in the regions with other official languages.
Now, definitely I will not continue the game anymore, it does not seem like it will lead to anything productive.
Greetings, have a good holiday. JamesOredan ( talk) 16:51, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
I am in favor of putting the Spanish language up. Reliable sources have been given quite clear as a differentiating factor, and the current Spanish map imposed does not make any sense and supposes a break of criteria with respect to the other maps.
EddTey (
talk)
22:01, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
The first criterion also states that it is necessary to have a large number of speakers, and the Spanish language has more than twice as many speakers as the French language, and each year the difference is more bulky.
EddTey (
talk) 22:08, 29 January 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
"[German] is the second most commonly used language on websites worldwide after English."
"[Russian is] the second most widespread language on the Internet after English."
The same source is cited for both quotes. The current order: English, Russian (6%), German (5.9%). I'd fix it myself, but semi-protected page and all.
Aforementioned source:
https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/content_language/all — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Even This Is Taken (
talk •
contribs)
22:21, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
There is one particular user that ranks Spanish higher than French under the " Living World Languages"
My views: I am wholly in support of French being in higher status than Spanish.
To conclude: So I thought if anyone or that particular user thinks that Spanish lanuguage deserves a higher position than French, they can state their opinions here.
Dajo767 ( talk) 11:30, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Yes, the Spanish language is more adapted to the established criteria. And there are sources that let it prove so. In other threads it has already been discussed.
EddTey (
talk) 14:25, 12 February 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Oh, again another thread. I have already discussed in other threads exactly this as Edd says. JamesOredan ( talk) 14:29, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
The only global language I think is the English language, and probably the Chinese in a few years. However, between French language and Spanish language I lean slightly for Spanish, its soplen by more people and is well distributed. SephirothBlade ( talk) 14:49, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
There are no reliable sources, with a certain prestige and truth that literally make a ranking of "globality" as if it were football teams.
There are statistics and data that help us classify languages according to the criteria established in WP.
I have used the official data and statistics of the Instituto Cervantes, which is one of the largest and most reliable world organization in the Spanish language.
I also add a reflection written by Mariana Escobar Gómez (Terminology Student, Visitor at TermCoord and Student at the University of Luxembourg) in the Terminology Coordination of the European Parliament (and supported by sources) on the subject.
http://termcoord.eu/2015/10/is-spanish-a-global-language/ JamesOredan ( talk) 16:47, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Of course there are reliable sources, like the ones I have presented. But they are statistics and data, not classifications.
The pyramid of David Graddol is from 1997, it is not really useful.
Sorting alphabetically seems strange to me. Although the current status seems to me the most correct. JamesOredan ( talk) 18:36, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
There is no violation because Instituto Cervantes, a reliable source widely used in Wikipedia, has been told many times. I do not think you are acting objectively and professionally.
While Oredan contributes sources and arguments you only dedicate yourself to make excuses almost without sense. In addition, the other user was allowed to change without any type of argument supported by sources the change of the Spanish language map.
There seems to be a bias.
EddTey (
talk)
21:09, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
In addition, the very argument you have made also serves to justify that the French language should be above.
EddTey (
talk)
21:11, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Errata: it does not serve to justify *
EddTey (
talk) 21:12, 12 February 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
The current status does not violate anything because the sources provided in the discussion are official. Please, do not fall into contradictions when literally it has been allowed to change the map of the Spanish language unilaterally and furtively without any source. JamesOredan ( talk) 21:44, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Obumaya - According to /info/en/?search=Tamilakam the area where Old Tamil was spoken, was not particularly extensive. -- DLMcN ( talk) 15:42, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
I changed the lower number of french native speakers, from 65 M to 80 M and deleted the reference since it stated a number of 51 M inhabitants in France, although it is now more than 10 years that the popuation of France outreached 60 M. You must add the 2 M French living abroad, a part of Belgium, Switzerland, and Canada at least, whose french language cannot be denied. The total number must count a variable part of the population of the french speaking countries of Africa, where French may not be the first language of all the population.
A reference with numbers dating from the ealy 80's is not a reference in demographics matters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.13.218.83 ( talk) 21:25, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Some French fanatic wrote 500 million of French speakers. According to the same Francophonie, the French speakers are some 200 million. Spanish, according to the Instituto Cervantes, are some 500 million speakers.
Hi, I would like to request an edit. The map showing countries who speaks french includes Equatorial Guinea, a Spanish speaking country or at least non French speaking. My request is therefore to change Equatorial Guinea to grey on that map. Rafa1239 ( talk) 00:50, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
/info/en/?search=World_language#/media/File:New-Map-Francophone_World.svg has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Soumya - Following my post in your personal Talk-File, namely:
[Inserting an Edit Summary] would tell us more about why you are making certain changes. [At least one] of your edits [here] in "World Language" has been with items which I personally inserted, and it would be helpful and illuminating to know what exactly your reasoning is. In addition, have you ever considered coming in to [this] article's Talk-File to explain beforehand what you think should be added (or subtracted) from the main article? > thereby inviting other editors to comment and to make alternative suggestions? … (^This has been modified slightly, partly to allow for its transfer to this site).
In particular, in the new map showing where Spanish is spoken, it would be relevant to mention a source from which the figures for the USA were taken. Incidentally, I would suggest that the "5-9%" category is unnecessary. Is there really no "20-25%" category? - (If there are indeed no states with those figures, then that should perhaps be explained).
Both the English and French maps distinguish countries (or areas, i.e. different parts of Canada) where other languages also carry official status. The Spanish map which used to feature in this article, adopted this approach with Spain, Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay, and a few other places.
Regards, -- DLMcN ( talk) 15:43, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
World language has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I will replace the heavily biased image of the Hispanophone world with the one from " https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Detailed_SVG_map_of_the_Hispanophone_world.svg." IMacintoshPlus ( talk) 07:11, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
IamNotU is correct that is my fault. You can disregard the bill that didn’t pass as the US does not have a stated official language. Galendalia Talk to me CVU Graduate 02:44, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
Jacques Leclerc, an expert on linguistic legislation who cites hundreds (if not thousands) of pertinent laws in over 400 countries and territories worldwide, lists 38 places where Spanish is official but none of the US states is among them, see also his pages on linguistic policies in the US. As public authorities are the only ones who are bound by official language status this is of little consequence for world language status, though. Love — LiliCharlie ( talk) 05:11, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
The map for the distribution of the Spanish language seems to far exaggerate the presence of Spanish in the United States and Canada. For example several Canadian provinces are marked as having "between 10 and 20 percent Spanish speakers"; but a quick check of the relevant Wikipedia pages shows that the true figure is less than 2 percent (ON, QC) or even less than 1 percent (BC). For the United States, the map seems to shade according to the Hispanic/Latino population in these states. This ignores the fact that many people of Hispanic origin do not speak Spanish natively, or speak it co-natively with English and are more proficient in English, or simply don't speak Spanish to a high level. Many non-hispanic people do not speak Spanish fluently, despite possibly having Spanish education. The U.S. census bureau estimates the only states where more than 10% of people "primarily or only speak Spanish", are California and Texas. A handful more are between 5 - 10%. I suggest changing the map to this one — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nuiop733 ( talk • contribs) 13:43, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
Portuguese should be listed with English, French and Spanish. Actually, there are more native Portuguese speakers than there are of French. Portuguese is spoken officially on 5 continents - not even Spanish has this geographic global reach as an official language. Apart from being spoken officially spoken in Spain, Spanish is mostly spoken officially in the Americas. Brazil alone has the 5th biggest economy in the world. 51% of the speakers in South America speaks Portuguese. Angola has the 3rd strongest economy is Africa right now - Mozambique is not far behind (both countries are rich in oil, gold, diamonds, coffee, sugar, and many other precious metals. At this moment China is the main trading partner of Brazil, Angola and Mozambique - in fact, all of the 10 Portuguese speaking nations. CPLP (Community of Portuguese Speaking Countries) even has its own Olympic Games and India is a member. In fact, numerous countries in the world want membership in the CPLP e.g. Australia, Indonesia, Philippines, Peru, Venezuela, Turkey, Japan, Senegal, Namibia, etc. This is a clear indication of the economic importance of the Portuguese language in the world, and it is only getting stronger everyday. So much so that many countries in the world are learning Portuguese as a favourite 2nd language e.g., China, Japan, Venezuela, South Africa, Senegal, etc. Even the Spaniards are enthusiastically learning Portuguese! Please give Portuguese its due respect, recognition, and position as a true world language - it's spoken all over the world by 280 million people. It is spoken officially on 5 continents, is the 3rd most spoken European language, is the 3rd most spoken language of the Americas, and the most spoken language of the Southern Hemisphere! The Portuguese language more than meets the parameters of a world language as you have indicated. I will indicate whether or not Portuguese meets the criteria with a simple yes or no and a brief example:
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.25.147 ( talk) 14:34, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
I put it here because I felt that it would give my contribution more visibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.25.147 ( talk) 12:48, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
This needs to be revised. Why does it show light blue over France? and dark blue over the Philippines? I would also modify or reduce its coverage in parts of the USA ... (Surely it is not used all that much in Alaska?) ... In addition, it is misleading to extend it over the whole of Morocco -- DLMcN ( talk) 03:46, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
I prefer the old map, because it is more complete and shows the dispersion of Spanish with different degrees of blue.
By the way, Spanish is official throughout the Penisula Iberica, and as you have already been told is the main language used by Spaniards, including Catalans.
After reading what you have written, without any kind of source about Spain, I do not trust your map. And even if 24 hours pass without any message, it does not really mean anything.
EddTey (
talk)
09:37, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
The official language of Ecuador is the Spanish language, there is no other official language in Ecuador.
Kichwa (Quichua), Shuar and others are in use for indigenous peoples. They are recognized regional languages for the Native Americans of Ecuador, but it is not an official language of the country.
EddTey (
talk) 09:57, 6 January 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
https://www.uoc.edu/euromosaic/web/document/catala/an/i1/i1.html and https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/is-catalonia-using-schools-as-a-political-weapon/544898/
I think you're pretty confused on the subject.
The only official language of Spain is Spanish. Catalan, Galician and Euskera are co-official. For this reason, Spain as a whole is identified as a country whose Spanish language is official throughout the territory, including regions with other co-official languages.
The United Kingdom has regions such as Scotland which, in addition to the English language, are co-official, the Scottish language and the Gaelic language, and the entire United Kingdom is identified as a country whose English language is official throughout the territory, despite the fact that there are places with other languages. The same applies to Bolivia and Peru.
Using different criteria for the Spanish language seems to me an error and a personal whim of you.
With regard to Catalonia, I think the data from the Generalitat de Catalunya is much more reliable than what you have offered.
Thank you.
EddTey (
talk) 10:40, 6 January 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
If you look at the map of the English language, in the United Kingdom the whole country is shown in a single color.
Why? Basically, the official language of the United Kingdom is the English language, although Scottish and Gaelic are also official languages in Scotland. In Spain the same thing happens, but you are determined to follow a different criterion in a unilateral and meaningless way.
The current map of the Spanish language only shows areas where the Spanish language is official, avoiding areas where Spanish enjoys a large number of speakers. That is why the previous map is more complete, because it shows areas where Spanish is a significantly spoken language, not just where it is official. The map of the French and English language is identical to the one you have deleted, so it does not make any sense what you are doing.
With regard to the rest, I do not know at what moment I have insulted you or any user. I think you should calm down and stop acting unilaterally and without providing useful and reliable sources.
EddTey (
talk) 18:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan.
IamNotU (
talk)
14:43, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
The previous map is more extensive and complete, is in line with the maps of the French and English languages (They are from the same creator), they show significant areas of use of the Spanish language in unofficial areas.
I will have to revert to the previously agreed map until a broad consensus in favor of the new map is established.
Blade and the rest (
talk) 12:26, 17 March 2019 (UTC)Blocked sock of
JamesOredan. --
IamNotU (
talk)
16:37, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
@ DLMcN: The map showing that Spanish is "only" co-official in Ecuador and Catalonia is definitely the one that is most appropriate for our purposes, as it is more in line with the maps for English and French.
And yes, although article 3 (1) of the Spanish constitution stipulates that "Castilian is the official Spanish language of the State. All Spaniards have the duty to know it and the right to use it." all autonomous regions where Castilian is merely co-official alongside "other Spanish languages" according to paragraph (2) of the same article should be marked as such. Love — LiliCharlie ( talk) 09:50, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
-- DLMcN ( talk) 12:33, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
This article is full of stupidity and lies.
How could the guardian of this article remove Russian, Arabic, and Chinese as world languages. Besides the reference for the total number of Spanish speakers were taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Language#Geographic_Distribution which is obviously a not reliable source.
It's obvious that the caretaker of this article is a Hispanic, the same person who caused the closing of a language forum by posting nasty lies against French, German, Russian, and even Italian, Portuguese and English just to uplift his beloved Spanish.
Take note on his criteria of a world language
Some sources define a living world language as having the following properties:
1. a large number of speakers
2. a substantial fraction of non-native speakers (function as lingua franca)
3. official status in several countries
4. a linguistic community not defined strictly along ethnic lines (multiethnic, pluricentric language)
5. one or more standard registers which are widely taught as a foreign language
6. association with linguistic prestige
7. use in international trade relations
8. use in international organizations
9. use in the academic community
10. significant body of literature
He used "properties" instead of "criteria". Wrong usage of word.
Spanish does not fit in criteria 2, 6, 9, and 10 Russian fits in criteria 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, and 10 Arabic in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 10
So Russian and Arabic are more rightful to be called world language than Spanish since garnered just six out of ten criteria while Russian nine and Arabic seven.
As for Chinese, it may only fit on the criteria 1, 2, and 10 but it has the largest number of native speakers.
Another flaw in this article is French has just 68 million speakers. France has a population of 62 million and 100% of its people speak French. Canada has 10 million native speakers of French, Belgium 4.5 million, Switzerland 1.5 million, US 2 M, DOM-TOM 4 million plus its millions of speakers in Africa as first language.
Surely, this articles favors the Spanish language so much and the caretaker of this article wants the whole world believe that Spanish is behind English. The truth is French and English are the only true global languages. German is also a true global language. German fullfils the criteria 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 and 10 of a world language. Please, German a world language? only in central europe is relevant — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.86.109.13 ( talk) 19:31, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
There is no world language, (Esperanto does not count because it is not spoken by the common of the people in any country) except a world lingua franca, which is English, you can not say that English is a world language because if you see the world map, you can go perfectly from Portugal to Japan, that is, cross all continental eurasia in a straight line (without passing through India and Pakistan) and jump to Japan without encountering a single country that has english as official language, equally if you add Maghreb plus the Middle East, you can cross that vast territory without finding a single country that has English as official, I mean, from Morocco to Afghanistan; neither the continental Southest Asia and Indonesia, the same occurs with Latin America, except for Belize and Guyana, you can go from Tijuana to Cape Horn without speaking a word of English. Even in many countries that has english as official, the people who lives in slums or those who have not had access to an academic education, would talk to you in their national language for example in India, Philippines (tagalo), many countries of Africa with their native languages, quite the opposite of what happens in a favela in Brazil for example, all of them would talk to you in portuguese, or in a champa in central america, all the people there would talk to you in spanish. The wiki in french set down International language, instead of world language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.86.109.13 ( talk) 19:25, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
The following is a response to 190.86.109.13's above contribution before they altered it — see version history for their original wording |
The following is a response to a contribution by 190.86.109.13 that they later deleted — see version history for what they had written |
Spanish is a World language like French and English. Or you add Spanish as World language or only English can be considered a World language, and French should be removed.
Spanish is spoken as mother tongue by 425 million people. French only by 75 million people. Spanish wins
Spanish is spoken by 575 million as total speakers. French only by 275 million people. Spanish wins.
Spanish is really spoken by a majority of the population (at least 51% of the population as mother tongue) in more than 20 countries. French only in France and Monaco. Spanish wins.
Spanish and French are official languages in the United Nations, UNESCO, FAO, WHO, etc. Same importance
Spanish speaking countries (including 55 million in the USA) have a total GDP higher than all French speaking countries. Spanish wins.
In short, English, Spanish and French are World languages or only English. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
91.250.156.251 (
talk)
11:21, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Should we try and weight this[i.e., official status in several countries]
according to how important the various countries are?— No we shouldn't. For one thing, we mustn't engage in original research. Plus "weighing countries" instead of languages would require countries to be monolingual. This is obviously not the case, however, and it would be absurd to say that the importance, economic or other, of Canada, Switzerland or Belgium is attributable to French. (And that's what World languages are all about: A world that isn't monolingual at all.) Also one shouldn't overestimate that criterion: If half of South America is Portuguese-speaking in one country and most of the other half is Spanish-speaking in many this is mere poltical coincidence and would drastically change the day Brazil were to fall apart, as happened to (for instance) the USSR, Yugoslavia, and the British Empire. Love — LiliCharlie ( talk) 12:58, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
Hi, without wanting to provoke a dispute, just remember that spanish is, same as french, spoken in four continents, obviously America and Europe, but also in Africa (Equatorial Guinea) and Ocenia (Easter Island, in Polynesia, belonging to Chile) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.86.109.13 ( talk) 19:00, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
Use across several regions in the world. We should consider all continents:
1- North America: Spanish wins clearly
2. Europe: French wins
3. Central America and Caribbean: Spanish wins clearly
4. South America: Spanish wins clearly
5. Africa: French wins clearly
6. Asia: none
7. Oceania: French wins
8. Antarctica: Spanish wins.
On the whole. Spanish is spoken in North America, Central America, Europe, South America and Antarctica. Minorities in Africa, Asia and Oceania
OTOH, French is spoken in Quebec, Europe and Africa. Minorities in South America, Asia and Oceania.
In short, French has not a wider global coverage. Both have an important global coverage.
Association with linguistic prestige This is a subjective point. It is irrelevant. Spanish has more prestige for a lot of people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsn-B8r5Vh0 https://www.eliberico.com/el-espanol-se-consolida-como-el-idioma-favorito-de-los-estudiantes-ingleses/ https://www.larazon.es/cultura/el-espanol-es-con-diferencia-el-idioma-mas-estudiado-en-estados-unidos-KA25259333/
Use in international organizations We should consider all WORLD organizations and see if French and Spanish are official languages or not. In almost all the World organizations French and Spanish are official: United Nations, FAO, UNESCO, WHO, etc. NATO is NOT a World organization. It should not be considered. So, both are important, both are World languages. https://www.spanishgurus.com/blog/international-organizations-use-spanish/ https://iusport.com/art/109037/el-tas-y-la-batalla-del-idioma-espanol-un-reconocimiento-merecido
The discussion above is well nigh meaningless and violates WP:NOTAFORUM. Whether some user thinks Spanish or French is more important is utterly irrelevant. We go by sources here, not original research. I propose an admin closes the discussion unless the level improves significantly. Jeppiz ( talk) 16:41, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
But are we still going to use the criteria set out at...?
If so, then that will make success even more unlikely.
Or will it be necessary to drastically restructure the entire text?
Some sources that show the importance of Spanish:
1. Spanish is the second language in Facebook and Twitter https://www.elmundo.es/cultura/2014/06/21/53a57e2fca474134578b4571.html
2. Economic power of Spanish language. Instituto Cervantes report. 6.4% of World GDP. Better than the GDP of French speakers and German speakers https://www.cedro.org/blog/articulo/blog.cedro.org/2017/09/12/el-espanol-en-el-mundo
3. Future of the language. According to Instituto Cervantes Spanish will be spoken by 754 million in 2050 https://www.cedro.org/blog/articulo/blog.cedro.org/2017/02/14/en-2050-los-hispanohablantes-llegaran-a-754-millones
4. Spanish in science. Spanish is third language in publication of scientific magazines https://www.cedro.org/blog/articulo/blog.cedro.org/2017/09/12/el-espanol-en-el-mundo
5. Finally, Spanish is third language in Internet. French is only seventh. https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm
@ Jeppiz: I agree an admin should close this discussion. Again and again users seem urged to "prove" the "importance" of their language, and their ad hoc reasoning is incompatible with the most basic of our guidelines. (Also, this is not a list of languages by importance or a list of lingua francas, but an article on how the term world language has been used in academic literature, as opposed to universal language, lingua franca, international auxiliary language, etc.) Love — LiliCharlie ( talk) 17:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
I am raising this topic to seek consensus on moving the Spanish language from the stricter category, to the broader category of Living World Languages, with Chinese and Arabic. English and French are, in my current understanding, have undeniable consensus among all scholars as current world languages. Although undeniably Spanish as a wider reach, globally, it does not possess universal consensus as English and French does. So it belongs in the list with Chinese, Arabic and Russian, as these languages are regarded as World Languages in the expanded list of World Languages, but not in the strictest list. Only English and French currently belong in the strictest list presently. Dajo767 ( talk) 17:29, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
NEUTRAL PEOPLE?
It is obvious that Spanish is more important than French in some points. OTOH, French surpasses Spanish in others. However, on the whole, they are both world languages and they have similar importance. It seems that the person who wants to remove Spanish as a world language (spoken by 485 million as mother tongue) and not French (a language spoken by hardly 85 million people as mother tongue) is strange, and it is at least suspected "of friendship" with the French government. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.28.115.237 ( talk) 10:25, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
That is easy. Spanish, English and French are official language in a lot of World organizations where Russian, Arabic, Portuguese or Chinese are not official: World Trade Organization, International Telecommunication Union, International Maritime Organization, International Labour Organization, Interpol, FIFA, World Rugby Organization, Court of Arbitration for Sport, etc. In all the World organizations Spanish is official or at least there is a compulsory simultaneous interpretation to Spanish.
Besides, Spanish is official in the United Nations (World), NAFTA (North America), the European Union and OSCE (Europe), Central American Integration System (Central America), CARICOM (Caribbean) African Union (Africa), Mercosur and UNASUR (South America), Antarctic Treaty (Antarctica) and in APEC (Asia and Pacific) is not official but Spanish can be used.
Arabic, Russian, Chinese and Portuguese are not official in ALL these organizations. And that is solid proof that Spanish is a World language.''''Bold text
World language comparison chart
We need to compare these languages to show the strengths and weaknesses of world languages
ENGLISH DIPLOMATIC LANGUAGE 1 INTERNET 1 ECONOMIC POWER 1 NUMBER OF SPEAKERS 1 COUNTRIES 1 AVERAGE 1
SPANISH 3 3 3 3 4 AVERAGE 3.2
ARABIC 4 4 4 6 3 AVERAGE 4.2
FRENCH 2 7 7 5 2 AVERAGE 4.6
CHINESE 6 2 2 2 COUNTRIES 13 AVERAGE 5
PORTUGUESE 7 6 10 9 5 AVERAGE 7.4
RUSSIAN 5 9 9 8 9 AVERAGE 8
We see that English is first in all the fields: the most important diplomatic language, the most used in internet, economic power (GDP), number of total speakers, number of countries where the language is official.
The second language is Spanish: third as diplomatic language, third in internet, third in economic power, third in speakers and fourth in countries.
Third language is Arabic. French is fourth, Chinese is fifth, Portuguese is sixth and Russian is seventh.
Sources: Total speakers
/info/en/?search=List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers
Countries /info/en/?search=List_of_languages_by_the_number_of_countries_in_which_they_are_recognized_as_an_official_language Economic power (GDP) https://alexika.com/blog/2018/11/29/top-business-languages-of-the-world Diplomatic power /info/en/?search=List_of_official_languages_by_institution Top ten Internet languages https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.250.156.251 ( talk) 18:30, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
Officially German ONLY in Europe, Spanish in Europe, America, Africa (Equatorial Guinea) and Oceania (Easter Island )
Well, responding, yes spanish is official in four continents in Africa (Equatorial Guinea) and in Oceania (Easter Island) how German could compare? German is official ONLY in Europe, the constitution of Namibia not even mention it, the opposite it does the constitution of Philippines as optional language with the spanish, spanish is spread in four continents with more of 12 million square kilometers, and german? not even in five hundred thousand kilometers are spread and just in ONE continent, and if I express my opinion is because yes, I know what I am talking, so German cames after, so English, French, Spanish, Russian, Arabic, Portuguese and Mandarin, in that order, are more important than German — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.86.109.13 ( talk) 23:00, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:24, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
1. French language is not spoken in Asia: it is not spoken in Vietnam, Laos, or Kampuchea. In short, French has been collapsing very fast in Asia
2. It is questionable whether any Africans will be speaking French in a few decades. It is not spoken in Rwanda. In Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania and Tunisia is a second language and its decline has continued, including the recent closure of French schools, as Arabic and English become the standard. In other African countries is spoken as a second language by minorities.
3. French has also seen a drastic decline in North America. In the U.S., between 1990 and 1995, college applicants for French class declined by twenty-four percent. You can live now in Quebec speaking English.
4. Across Europe, French has gradually declined from being the lingua franca to falling behind German and English. And French has fallen so far behind in Eastern Europe, in particular, that it is the third-most studied language, behind English and Spanish.
5. The calamitous decline in French seems irreversible, even to the French. English is now the language of business in Europe, a fact which even French ambassador for international investment Clara Gaymard was forced to admit.
Sources: https://www.newgeography.com/content/002387-the-decline-and-fall-french-language https://www.newgeography.com/content/002387-the-decline-and-fall-french-language
So, English is a World language, and perhaps Spanish and Mandarin Chinese, but NOT French. A language hardly spoken by 85 million people around the World. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.28.115.237 ( talk) 07:57, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
I am tired of some sockpuppets who are editing this article. Especially user JamesOredan . He keeps resurfacing with duplicate / socks to promote the Spanish language over French. Each sock he creates have generally low contribution rate to Wikipedia, before he starts his propoganda edits for the Spanish language or the Spanish nation. This article alone has been repeatedly vandalised by his socks. The latest one I suspect is from another suspected sock called Circadue on 23 August, 2020. I request the administrators or someone who has contact with a wikipedia administrator to extend protect this article, so as to only allow users with 500 plus edits to make further changes to this page. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dajo767 ( talk • contribs) 11:11, 25 August 2020 (UTC) Dajo767 ( talk) 11:14, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
( Personal attack removed) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.86.109.13 ( talk) 03:08, 26 August 2020 (UTC) struck out comment of a sockpuppet of banned user JamesOredan. Dajo767 ( talk) 09:22, 26 August 2020 (UTC) -- Removed entirely per WP:RPA. TompaDompa ( talk) 10:02, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Can somebody please update Macedonia into North Macedonia in this section of the Turkish language. I can't do it myself as I am a new user.
"Recognized minority language in: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia, Romania, Iraq, Greece, Republic of Kosovo" -- StoyanStoyanov80 ( talk) 13:43, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you -- StoyanStoyanov80 ( talk) 14:26, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
In my opinion and understanding, German language must be moved down to "Other supra-regional" languages (third) category/table, instead of remaining in, as of today, the second category/table. Thoughts? Dajo767 ( talk) 11:34, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
I will hazard to write that you may have misunderstood me. I was calling for views on the subject of German language's position in the second table. I believe the position of the German language belongs in the third and last table with supraregional languages such as Dutch and Italian. Dajo767 ( talk) 17:32, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
I know you like playing word games and grammer games. Please give it a rest. If you got to say something, talk about the subject of this heading. Otherwise please find some other place in wikipedia to waste your time. Dajo767 ( talk) 21:07, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
@ Dajo767 and Jeppiz: I am puzzled as to why you think your particular categorization and ordering of world and supra-regional languges, is consistent with TompaDompa's presentation of various relevant sources (see above). Regards, -- DLMcN ( talk) 02:42, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
@ DLMcN: I do not. I think it is a bad idea to have an arrangement where French is on the same table or group with other languages except English. I offered my reasoning above. Dajo767 ( talk) 11:06, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
I'm adding this comment to both this section and the #Spanish language is also a World language section. I would categorize and phrase it like this: English is universally considered a world language. French is generally, usually, or often considered a world language. Spanish is occasionally or sometimes considered a world language. Portuguese is rarely considered a world language. The other languages are generally not considered world languages. TompaDompa ( talk) 22:27, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
1. Spanish language is spoken by 580 million people worldwide. It is the mother tongue of 480 million people, second in the World
2. Spanish language is spoken by 60 million in the USA and by 80 million in the European Union, as first or second language
3. Spanish language is official language in the United Nations, NAFTA (North America), Central American Common Market, European Union, Mercosur, African Union, Antarctic Treatry and in APEC (Asia-Pacificl) is not official but it can be used. It is official (or at least compulsory translation) in all the World organizations
4. Spanish language is second world language in Twitter and Facebook. It is third in Internet (users), after English and Mandarin Chinese
5. Spanish language is spoken in more than 40 countries worldwide (all the continents).
6. Spanish language is third most important language by GDP, after Mandarin and English.
Sources:
https://www.cervantes.es/sobre_instituto_cervantes/prensa/2019/noticias/presentacion_anuario_madrid.htm,
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idioma_espa%C3%B1ol,
https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm,
https://alexika.com/blog/2018/11/29/top-business-languages-of-the-world
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.28.115.237 ( talk) 08:06, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Anyway, the article currently cites several sources. Let's review what they say, shall we?
Fischer Weltalmanach describes world languages as languages that extend far beyond their national boundaries and make it possible for members of different language communities to communicate (roughly, a native speaker of German would probably be able to provide a better translation), and equates world language (Weltsprache) with international lingua franca (Verkehrssprache). It discusses the history of several languages and notes that English has been the dominant Verkehrssprache worldwide since World War II. It notes that Spanish, Portuguese, and French have intercontinental distribution whereas Mandarin Chinese, Hindi, Arabic, Russian, Bengali, Malay, German, and Japanese barely extend beyond their immediate geographic surroundings (again, roughly).
Encyclopedia of Bilingualism and Bilingual Education – under the heading "Major world languages", this source says that English is often regarded as the main international language of the world, but several other languages have traversed the boundaries of the regions or countries where they were originally spoken, and are used internationally, either as first of second languages.
before discussing German, Dutch, Portuguese, Spanish, French, Arabic, Russian, and Chinese (page 302–306). The source also briefly discusses "The political dominance of English as a world language" (page 332).
One Language for the World says that Russian, like Chinese, Hindustani, and Bengali, is landlocked. A landlocked language, as long as it remains so, cannot be a world language.
(page 15). It also says that Speakers of Chinese outnumber those of English two to one, but they are rather inconveniently located within the boundaries of China, a large and important country, but one which constitutes only a fraction of one continent. English, on the other hand, enjoys widespread distribution throughout the globe. […] It is a language that has been learned by many who do not have it as a native tongue, so that you find people who speak it almost everywhere you may travel. This distributional advantage more than offsets the numerical superiority of Chinese.
(page 13), and Second only to English in distributional power is French. Though endowed with only about 80 million native speakers, it is practically as widespread as English. […] Like English, French can be used almost anywhere.
(page 13–14), while noting that Spanish, by way of contrast, is largely limited to the Western Hemisphere, though its homeland is in Europe.
and Portuguese is also primarily a Western Hemisphere language […]
(both page 14). It ponders Is it possible to establish a hierarchy of distribution, as we established one of numbers? In such a hierarchy, we would have to list English and French at the very top, then arrange Arabic, Spanish, Russian, Portuguese, German in a second division, and end up with the more localised tongues, Chinese, Indonesian, Italian, Hindustani, Japanese, Bengali.
(page 16). There is also some discussion about the history of different languages' historical status as world languages or aspirations to attain such status on page 101–105, dealing mainly but not exclusively with French and English.
Status and Function of Languages and Language Varieties says By the term world language approximately the following can be understood: Firstly, languages that meet the requirement of the greatest possible distribution outside their area where they are spoken as national languages. Among these there are at present English, French, Spanish and Russian (cf. Frohne 1976: 728; Häusler 1982: 271—274). Secondly, international planned languages (e.g Esperanto, Ido, Interlingua).
and terms the latter category auxiliary world languages (page 422). The same page also contains discussion about the term "
universal language". The source furthermore says English, and to a lesser degree also French, serve as vehicles of stereotyping views about Western lifestyles (i.e. English as the symbol of modernity, French as the symbol of elegance, and female elegance in particular) in many communities where these world languages are foreign.
while discussing Japanese settings (page 189). Frohne 1976 is Zu den Kriterien der soziolinguistischen Kategorie "Weltsprache" and Häusler 1982 is Zur Problematik Der Weltsprachen im 20. Jahrhundert, in case anybody wants to do further research.
A World Federation of Cultures: An African Perspective says that Russian, Chinese, and Arabic "are not yet world languages but deserve to be promoted and developed for such a role in the near future" (page 474). It also says that German and Japanese are not world languages but a regional and a national one, respectively (page 476). Moreover, it says that to qualify as a world language, a tongue must command at least 100 million speakers, or 5 percent of the population of the world, whichever is higher, and must have been adopted by at least ten states as a national language
as well as the Russian language is clearly intraregional, and therefore a regional rather than a world language.
(both from page 333). I think it also says that English, French, and Spanish are world languages on page 333, but since I can only access fragments I can't say for sure. If we really want to find out, we could ask for help at
WP:RESOURCES.
I think the following is a fair way to summarize these sources: English is the dominant world language, universally considered to be one, and by the absolutely strictest interpretation of the term, it is the only one. French ranks just below English, usually considered one even when the term is used strictly. Spanish and to a lesser degree also Portuguese belong to a lower category, being considered world languages by a non-strict (but not loose) interpretation of the term. Russian, German, Arabic, and Chinese are only considered world languages when the term is interpreted loosely (which would be a third tier).
You may disagree with that reading of the sources, and that's fine. The important thing here is that when we strive to summarize the sources like this, any disagreement will be based on the sources rather than personal opinion. And of course, if we survey even more sources it is likely that the picture that emerges will be slightly different. TompaDompa ( talk) 05:45, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
So complicated to me if French wins over spanish, only in Asia neither of the two languages is spoken.
French language is spoken in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and Lebanon BY MINORITIES. People in these countries study English, and French is really desappearing.
Well, mister wisdom, so spanish is present too, because the Constitution of Philippines in Art XIV Section 6 "Spanish and Arabic shall be promoted on a voluntary and optional basis"; and who the hell are you ? Isaac Newton?
I apologize with you I was only saying that because this is a free discussion.
Please consult List of languages by the number of countries in which they are recognized as an official language and List of official languages by institution Dajo767 ( talk) 18:19, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
As note regarding the discussion above, and especially directed to the IP: this talk page is not for discussions about what language anyone here thinks should qualify as a world language. That is entirely irrelevant, and a prime example of WP:OR. What we are concerned with is here is which languages reliable sources describe as "world language". Please feel free to present reliable sources. Any further arguments saying that this or that user thinks this or that language should be included could be removed as per WP:NOTAFORUM. Jeppiz ( talk) 22:35, 17 September 2020 (UTC)