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Who created this article in the first instance? What background do they have in this area? All the sources for the article end in the same singular source. Given inaccuracies in the article and the supporting documents, it seems like this may have been created to push someone's agenda and woggabaliri may not have actually existed as a sport as claimed.
It certainly could not have been recognised as the first indigenous sport by any reputable organisation as there is no way for us to date sports that occurred before white settlement, and there were plenty of other sports played by the aborigines before white settlement. There were certainly more games that have a lot more literature on them other than this one from the time of early settlement.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikinick99 ( talk • contribs) 10:43, 3 November 2010
How can this picture, from Victoria, be shown here as evidence of an aboriginal game played in central NSW? Hasn't it occurred to anyone that someone has appropriated this picture, and the language to describe Marn Grook (almost word for word) to push some agenda? How is that we have stacks of material on Marn grook but absolutely nothing on Woggabaliri? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.127.213.166 ( talk) 21:17, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Someone has added the picture again, so I took it out again. I agree with the previous two posts that a picture depicting Victoria is not related to a game supposedly played in NSW. Indigenous Australians are not one homogeneous group and by linking a picture of Marn Grook with 'Waggabaliri' is misleading. Norwestie ( talk) 11:03, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
It begins with Often confused as a variant of Marn Grook,. Often confused? Who confuses them? No one even knows this game exists! There is no mention of it until someone pulled this blokes leg for a laugh about a decade ago. So how can it be "often confused"? It suggests the writer of this article is biased and is trying to peddle a particular line here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.14.81.49 ( talk) 01:19, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Sources? Apart from Edwards' book, there are no sources. He writes barely a page on this game called Woggabaliri, with zero references, he doesn't even give a background account of who told him the story, nothing - and now you're claiming there are sources that refer to this etching in Victoria being Woggabaliri as well? Mate - there are no sources, there's nothing, what we are seeing is a clear case of POV on your part. Figghiu Beddu ( talk) 22:04, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Can someone assist with the reporting of this nonsense article? The author zealosly guards any alterations and reports them as vandalism, but, in addition to some of the nonsense that was ultimately removed we still have: 1) The game "Popular with the Wiradjuri and surrounding peoples before European arrival" 2) The game is "recognised by the Australian Sports Commission as one of the oldest Indigenous ball games" http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=773519 And of course, if the entire evidence an article is based on is from one "non-historian / non-sociologist" who is living and yet refuses to provide the evidence he has used, how lo9ng can they be viewed as a credibloe source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bazza773 ( talk • contribs) 21:13, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
Honestly. Woggabaliri is just a play on the term "wogball", a racist term used to describe soccer. Get rid of this crap.— Preceding unsigned comment added by The Frederick ( talk • contribs) 06:22, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
It's parody of the idea that Australian rules had roots in indigenous culture, akin to giving baseball an American origin with the Abner Doubleday myth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnomieBOT ( talk • contribs) 01:14, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Heh, this is still here after 7 years, good job whoever made it up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.166.198 ( talk) 06:57, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
This article is a perpetuated hoax based on articles that were published in 2007 based on a single image which was incorrectly interpreted and attributed. The resulting hype, mainly from soccer interests in NSW caused some people to cite the Wikipedia article as a source. These sources are no longer reliable and many of these secondary sources subsequently realised and redacted their articles. Tim Hilferti's 2010 opinion article from The Advertiser newspaper is not a reliable source and is cited extensively, it appears to simply be based on this page. Unfortunately there is at least one book published in 2011 on the subject which is poorly referenced and not reliable source. All the other cited sources are extremely spurious and there are no links to any reliable academic studies on the subject prior to or after 2007. -- Rulesfan ( talk) 05:31, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
"Japan Advertiser, The Japan Advertiser Conventions Number, October-November, 1929: World Engineering Congress, Tokyo; Institute of Pacific Relations Conference, Kyoto". Manchuria Daily News Online. Retrieved 24 February 2023.
This article should never have been published and should have remained deleted when it was verified as a hoax. It is a disgrace to Wikipedia's standards. -- Rulesfan ( talk) 00:02, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
So User:Pyraminxsolver has been sending me warnings and reverting my edits when all I'm focusing on verifying sources. I would really like to know what the agenda is to keeping this page going as it has virtually no substance of fact! -- Rulesfan ( talk) 02:09, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
Aside from the fact that this is suspected as a hoax, has no credible sources, and may be someone's bad joke I'd like to add:
User:WLRoss stopped being active on Wikipedia, but they also made the page for White noise (slang) (now a redirect). Correlating with the fact "White noise (slang)" was originally considered for deletion, and the article's title may be derived from a racist term, it feels oddly calculated. WannurSyafiqah74 ( talk) 10:17, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
The Edit history of this article goes back no further than yesterday, 24 February 2023. But I know it has existed for much longer than that. The history of this Talk page goes back to 2010. What's going on? HiLo48 ( talk) 01:05, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
Users Pyraminxsolver and Laterthanyouthink have been removing the hoax controversy sections and making the article sound factual whereas it is not, claiming it is original research, whereas it is clear that the entire subject is original research. This is unacceptable as the material was clearly cited. Rulesfan ( talk) 16:31, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
Are you also claiming that the Wiradjuri Dictionary (by Dr Stan Grant and Dr John Rudder) is not a reliable source? https://wiradjuri.wcclp.com.au/ it is simply stating the facts that according to this source Woggabaliri is not the Wiradjuri word for play. The reader can make up their own mind on Ken Edwards claim about this.
References
OK so the fact both of the PHD authors removed their references to Woggabaliri is removed from the article. This is not insignificant as their work forms the basis for the citogenesis.
It begs the question. Why else would they remove all reference to Woggabaliri it if it was still factual and relevant post 2009?? It is now almost impossible to find any official government sources, such as the original source, the Australian Sports Commission, with references that support any historical existence of Woggabaliri.
I have come to the conclusion that Ken Edwards original source is thoroughly unreliable as an academic citation. I have double checked his bibliography and none of his sources support any evidence for Woggabaliri. Furthermore there are simply no references to it - at all - prior to his work. The fact that he has since distanced himself from it as an authoritative source adds weight to it being unreliable.
This article was nominated for deletion on 6 November 2018. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Woggabaliri article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Who created this article in the first instance? What background do they have in this area? All the sources for the article end in the same singular source. Given inaccuracies in the article and the supporting documents, it seems like this may have been created to push someone's agenda and woggabaliri may not have actually existed as a sport as claimed.
It certainly could not have been recognised as the first indigenous sport by any reputable organisation as there is no way for us to date sports that occurred before white settlement, and there were plenty of other sports played by the aborigines before white settlement. There were certainly more games that have a lot more literature on them other than this one from the time of early settlement.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikinick99 ( talk • contribs) 10:43, 3 November 2010
How can this picture, from Victoria, be shown here as evidence of an aboriginal game played in central NSW? Hasn't it occurred to anyone that someone has appropriated this picture, and the language to describe Marn Grook (almost word for word) to push some agenda? How is that we have stacks of material on Marn grook but absolutely nothing on Woggabaliri? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.127.213.166 ( talk) 21:17, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Someone has added the picture again, so I took it out again. I agree with the previous two posts that a picture depicting Victoria is not related to a game supposedly played in NSW. Indigenous Australians are not one homogeneous group and by linking a picture of Marn Grook with 'Waggabaliri' is misleading. Norwestie ( talk) 11:03, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
It begins with Often confused as a variant of Marn Grook,. Often confused? Who confuses them? No one even knows this game exists! There is no mention of it until someone pulled this blokes leg for a laugh about a decade ago. So how can it be "often confused"? It suggests the writer of this article is biased and is trying to peddle a particular line here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.14.81.49 ( talk) 01:19, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Sources? Apart from Edwards' book, there are no sources. He writes barely a page on this game called Woggabaliri, with zero references, he doesn't even give a background account of who told him the story, nothing - and now you're claiming there are sources that refer to this etching in Victoria being Woggabaliri as well? Mate - there are no sources, there's nothing, what we are seeing is a clear case of POV on your part. Figghiu Beddu ( talk) 22:04, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Can someone assist with the reporting of this nonsense article? The author zealosly guards any alterations and reports them as vandalism, but, in addition to some of the nonsense that was ultimately removed we still have: 1) The game "Popular with the Wiradjuri and surrounding peoples before European arrival" 2) The game is "recognised by the Australian Sports Commission as one of the oldest Indigenous ball games" http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=773519 And of course, if the entire evidence an article is based on is from one "non-historian / non-sociologist" who is living and yet refuses to provide the evidence he has used, how lo9ng can they be viewed as a credibloe source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bazza773 ( talk • contribs) 21:13, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
Honestly. Woggabaliri is just a play on the term "wogball", a racist term used to describe soccer. Get rid of this crap.— Preceding unsigned comment added by The Frederick ( talk • contribs) 06:22, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
It's parody of the idea that Australian rules had roots in indigenous culture, akin to giving baseball an American origin with the Abner Doubleday myth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnomieBOT ( talk • contribs) 01:14, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Heh, this is still here after 7 years, good job whoever made it up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.166.198 ( talk) 06:57, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
This article is a perpetuated hoax based on articles that were published in 2007 based on a single image which was incorrectly interpreted and attributed. The resulting hype, mainly from soccer interests in NSW caused some people to cite the Wikipedia article as a source. These sources are no longer reliable and many of these secondary sources subsequently realised and redacted their articles. Tim Hilferti's 2010 opinion article from The Advertiser newspaper is not a reliable source and is cited extensively, it appears to simply be based on this page. Unfortunately there is at least one book published in 2011 on the subject which is poorly referenced and not reliable source. All the other cited sources are extremely spurious and there are no links to any reliable academic studies on the subject prior to or after 2007. -- Rulesfan ( talk) 05:31, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
"Japan Advertiser, The Japan Advertiser Conventions Number, October-November, 1929: World Engineering Congress, Tokyo; Institute of Pacific Relations Conference, Kyoto". Manchuria Daily News Online. Retrieved 24 February 2023.
This article should never have been published and should have remained deleted when it was verified as a hoax. It is a disgrace to Wikipedia's standards. -- Rulesfan ( talk) 00:02, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
So User:Pyraminxsolver has been sending me warnings and reverting my edits when all I'm focusing on verifying sources. I would really like to know what the agenda is to keeping this page going as it has virtually no substance of fact! -- Rulesfan ( talk) 02:09, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
Aside from the fact that this is suspected as a hoax, has no credible sources, and may be someone's bad joke I'd like to add:
User:WLRoss stopped being active on Wikipedia, but they also made the page for White noise (slang) (now a redirect). Correlating with the fact "White noise (slang)" was originally considered for deletion, and the article's title may be derived from a racist term, it feels oddly calculated. WannurSyafiqah74 ( talk) 10:17, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
The Edit history of this article goes back no further than yesterday, 24 February 2023. But I know it has existed for much longer than that. The history of this Talk page goes back to 2010. What's going on? HiLo48 ( talk) 01:05, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
Users Pyraminxsolver and Laterthanyouthink have been removing the hoax controversy sections and making the article sound factual whereas it is not, claiming it is original research, whereas it is clear that the entire subject is original research. This is unacceptable as the material was clearly cited. Rulesfan ( talk) 16:31, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
Are you also claiming that the Wiradjuri Dictionary (by Dr Stan Grant and Dr John Rudder) is not a reliable source? https://wiradjuri.wcclp.com.au/ it is simply stating the facts that according to this source Woggabaliri is not the Wiradjuri word for play. The reader can make up their own mind on Ken Edwards claim about this.
References
OK so the fact both of the PHD authors removed their references to Woggabaliri is removed from the article. This is not insignificant as their work forms the basis for the citogenesis.
It begs the question. Why else would they remove all reference to Woggabaliri it if it was still factual and relevant post 2009?? It is now almost impossible to find any official government sources, such as the original source, the Australian Sports Commission, with references that support any historical existence of Woggabaliri.
I have come to the conclusion that Ken Edwards original source is thoroughly unreliable as an academic citation. I have double checked his bibliography and none of his sources support any evidence for Woggabaliri. Furthermore there are simply no references to it - at all - prior to his work. The fact that he has since distanced himself from it as an authoritative source adds weight to it being unreliable.