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@ Betelgeuse X can you please edit your additions to this section? The section should contain only the analysis of Soviet intentions, not a listing of facts that may point one way or the other. The regime change is already alluded to in a lower paragraph there, so you can edit that, without adding an entire new paragraph discussing the same thing. And what music the military orchestra was planning on playing while marching in Helsinki definitely doesn't belong in that section. Please, try to keep it tidy. It should be a succinct overview of the arguments and academic positions. MrThe1And0nly ( talk) 21:28, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
Hi, either that, or a clueless non-native EN speaker ... but in the sentence (Soviet intentions, final para, Kotkin) "... unlike the pacts of mutual assistance, /.../ Finland was demanded limited territorial concessions and even offered land in return..." the wording "... Finland was demanded ..." reads wronglishly to me. How about "... the territorial concessions demanded were limited, and Finland was even offered land in return ...", or "..., the Soviet Union demanded limited territorial concessions and even offered Finland land in return ..."? Or the sentence is fine, then forget it. T 84.208.65.62 ( talk) 23:30, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
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Please change "Hostilities ceased in March 1940 with the signing of the Moscow Peace Treaty in which Finland ceded 9% of its territory to the Soviet Union." to "Hostilities ceased in March 1940 with the signing of the Moscow Peace Treaty in which Finland ceded 11% of its territory to the Soviet Union." [1] [2] Arlecchinoswife ( talk) 11:20, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
References
In my opinion, the Winter War was a Soviet Pyrrhic victory. Now, I know that a good chunk of you reading this will probably write a few paragraphs on why the Soviet Union didn't win, so I want to say that i'll listen to any of your arguments.
It was a Soviet victory (sort of), and they got what they wanted (or, what they claimed they wanted). They manage to force the Finns to surrender (sort of) by signing the Moscow Peace Treaty. They got half of the Karelian Isthmus, they got their naval base, and they got more influence in the region. On the other hand, they didn't get what a majority of the historical community accepts what they actually wanted: the complete annexation of Finland. They suffered a horrific amount of casualties in terms of manpower and armor. Their international reputation was ruined. The poor performance of the Red Army in the Karelian Isthmus convinced Hitler that the Soviet Union was weak, and therefore resulted in the Invasion of the Soviet Union. A good chunk people on here point to the establishment of the Finnish Democratic Republic as proof that the Soviets wanted to annex Finland as a socialist republic. But, it's likely that the Soviets wanted a buffer/puppet state (like the nations of the Warsaw Pact after the war). Even if the Soviets theoretically manage to annex all of Finland, would the Finnish population accept rule under a government with a system that they disagreed with and under the influence of a nation that they despised? Annexation of Finland would've resulted in an insurgency that the Soviets had to deal with, taking manpower and resources that would be needed if the Germans attacked (which they did). Then the Germans would've (probably) won in the East with the help of Finnish partisans drawing troops away from the Eastern Front that the Soviets needed. If the Soviets DID manage to annex Finland, it would've been undone in 10 years anyway, so I think that the theory that the Soviets wanted to annex all of Finland is ridiculous. It would've been a waste of manpower and time for a pointless cause; resources that they needed for the fight against the Germans. Ulysses S. Grant III ( talk) 14:15, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Winter War article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3,
4Auto-archiving period: 180 days
![]() |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | Winter War is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 13, 2018. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
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@ Betelgeuse X can you please edit your additions to this section? The section should contain only the analysis of Soviet intentions, not a listing of facts that may point one way or the other. The regime change is already alluded to in a lower paragraph there, so you can edit that, without adding an entire new paragraph discussing the same thing. And what music the military orchestra was planning on playing while marching in Helsinki definitely doesn't belong in that section. Please, try to keep it tidy. It should be a succinct overview of the arguments and academic positions. MrThe1And0nly ( talk) 21:28, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
Hi, either that, or a clueless non-native EN speaker ... but in the sentence (Soviet intentions, final para, Kotkin) "... unlike the pacts of mutual assistance, /.../ Finland was demanded limited territorial concessions and even offered land in return..." the wording "... Finland was demanded ..." reads wronglishly to me. How about "... the territorial concessions demanded were limited, and Finland was even offered land in return ...", or "..., the Soviet Union demanded limited territorial concessions and even offered Finland land in return ..."? Or the sentence is fine, then forget it. T 84.208.65.62 ( talk) 23:30, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change "Hostilities ceased in March 1940 with the signing of the Moscow Peace Treaty in which Finland ceded 9% of its territory to the Soviet Union." to "Hostilities ceased in March 1940 with the signing of the Moscow Peace Treaty in which Finland ceded 11% of its territory to the Soviet Union." [1] [2] Arlecchinoswife ( talk) 11:20, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
References
In my opinion, the Winter War was a Soviet Pyrrhic victory. Now, I know that a good chunk of you reading this will probably write a few paragraphs on why the Soviet Union didn't win, so I want to say that i'll listen to any of your arguments.
It was a Soviet victory (sort of), and they got what they wanted (or, what they claimed they wanted). They manage to force the Finns to surrender (sort of) by signing the Moscow Peace Treaty. They got half of the Karelian Isthmus, they got their naval base, and they got more influence in the region. On the other hand, they didn't get what a majority of the historical community accepts what they actually wanted: the complete annexation of Finland. They suffered a horrific amount of casualties in terms of manpower and armor. Their international reputation was ruined. The poor performance of the Red Army in the Karelian Isthmus convinced Hitler that the Soviet Union was weak, and therefore resulted in the Invasion of the Soviet Union. A good chunk people on here point to the establishment of the Finnish Democratic Republic as proof that the Soviets wanted to annex Finland as a socialist republic. But, it's likely that the Soviets wanted a buffer/puppet state (like the nations of the Warsaw Pact after the war). Even if the Soviets theoretically manage to annex all of Finland, would the Finnish population accept rule under a government with a system that they disagreed with and under the influence of a nation that they despised? Annexation of Finland would've resulted in an insurgency that the Soviets had to deal with, taking manpower and resources that would be needed if the Germans attacked (which they did). Then the Germans would've (probably) won in the East with the help of Finnish partisans drawing troops away from the Eastern Front that the Soviets needed. If the Soviets DID manage to annex Finland, it would've been undone in 10 years anyway, so I think that the theory that the Soviets wanted to annex all of Finland is ridiculous. It would've been a waste of manpower and time for a pointless cause; resources that they needed for the fight against the Germans. Ulysses S. Grant III ( talk) 14:15, 2 April 2024 (UTC)