>Rvalles (Wind -a breath of heart- moved to Wind 〜a breath of heart〜: Real name is like this.)
You are wrong.
For the love of god, it doesn't take a genius to read the title of the damned game. Also, your adding tons of pictures affects the readability of the article. Please stop being an idiot.
Both of you, please review
Wikipedia:Avoid personal remarks. I have "crossed out" a few phrases which don't seem directly related to the task of improving this article.
Uncle Ed
03:08, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
Someone should write something about the actual anime and not just the game.
Is it so hard to go to the official website, which is LINKED TO ON THE ARTICLE, and look at the title of the game?
http://www.minori.ph/lineup/wind.html
"Wind -a breath of heart-".
Let's take a look at some of the other sites linked to on the article.
http://www.alchemist-net.co.jp/products/wind_dc/
"Wind -a breath of heart-".
"Wind -a breath of heart-".
There isn't anything to discuss. You are wrong. That is a fact.
Why does the first line of the article say "{{{{{2|{{{2}}}}}}|1 {{{media=void|2={{{3}}}}}} | Infobox CVG/media | {{{media}}}}}" -- SoothingR 07:20, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
...a problem with the infobox.
I guess it'd be a good idea to remove it for now, at least till someone can fix it.
I have merged the page histories from the unicode version. Now feel free to change stuff around. R e dwolf24 ( talk) 00:18, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Rvalles, your adding unnecessary images is affecting the readability of the article. And yes, big chunks of blank space DO affect the readability of the article. Please stop.
Besides, this article is about the game, not the translation patch. If you really want to add screenshots, it'd be better to add ones from the original game.
I've looked into the text/image layout problem you seem to be suffering; this is not how a image should be displayed with "right|thumb". The images are suppossed not to disturb layout, so that text continues in an independent manner. This is the expected behaviour and it can be observed in all browsers I've tried. They are:
I should note I've not logged in with any of them, so the default stylesheet was displayed. It seems them it's a very specific problem affecting just your webbrowser. Many browsers are known to have problems with some wikipedia features, Internet Explorer being one of the kings (see Wikipedia:Browser notes), and being, in general, problematic with format, having very incomplete/outdated/bad support for Web standards. I personally recommend to switch to Firefox; there are many other options of capable browsers, but the reason I do recommend this one is that on wikipedia, the use of open standards are important. There's why we avoid GIF and use PNG instead, or why we use Ogg-Vorbis as per-policy and not MP3. On the matter of the html code itself, Web standards are religiously respected, and Firefox is, at this moment, the most popular webbrowser which is both free software and available for many platforms (important from a universal access to wikipedia point of view) On Wikipedia, we don't try and work around browser bugs on articles themselves. The right|thumb method constitutes a very useful way of placing images, allowing for the placing of a lot of them without disturbing the article text at all. It is then popular and you'll see a whole lot of articles using this method (like Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu or Full Metal Panic!: The Second Raid, being both good examples of articles using that feature extensivelly. Check Wikipedia:Picture_tutorial for futher info on image formatting.
Having addressed this browser-specific issue, I should say that I disagree with the other arguments you've used so far to defend removing them. Let's be specific: This is the english wikipedia. We speak/read/write/whatever english here. Additionally having some screenshot from the original version of the game may indeed add some value, but let's stick to the english versions whether available, by default. Now, you might think there were too many images on the first place. Well, let me explain. Unlike a dictionary, a anime or game database, or whatever other sort of place, an article here it's supposed to be an enciclopedic article. It is supposed to be extensive, verbose, enciclopedic, to cover as much as possible. One of the points needed to archieve that on an article about this kind of game is, without a doubt, documenting the characters (or possible girlfriends...) on an extensive way. From the graphical front, that does mean having screenshots showing each of them; it would not be complete otherwise, and in my own, personal bias I'm positive as someone who likes this kind of games that having those is something that is very apreciated.
On the matter of AniDB links, it seems you've removed them twice; your reason as told in your edit summary seems to be "Those sites are very obviously not in Japanese.". Well, this is the english enciclopedia. There's why links written in english are valuable; more than that, we try to link to sites which are in english, on purpose. When for some reason that is not possible and we feel we should include a link to a page written in a different language (let's say, the official site for wind, which is in japanese...), the common policy is to warn (in japanese) on the link comment, so that the reader knows before opening it. Having said so I think those links should be there. We're still a long way from reaching that point, but AniDB is a very valuable database for many of us, and we're trying so that all entries about an anime have a link to their AniDB node. To make it even easier, a macro was created, and we use it instead of placing the whole URL there, very convenient considering AniDB does indeed have many domain names, is hosted in a non-ludicrous way, have had some of them non-working on the past, and is likely to drop many of them on the future.
On the matter of naming, I was very wrong when I renamed the page to the name with double-width ~s instead of -. I don't recall where I got that idea from (bad memory), but I must have followed bad leads, probably from some shop instead of just looking at the official page itself (my bad!). The reason I so quickly reverted your article move in the first place doesn't have anything to do with believing either name to be the most apropiate, tho. On wikipedia, atribution is important. We keep track of who did change what, as a way to give proper credit to our editors. When a page is moved by the cut and paste method, this list of changes isn't moved, leading to the loss of them. To avoid that, we have other methods to move pages without this trouble, but to avoid problems such as vandalism, only registered users and only those which a considerable number of edits and/or age (I'm one of them but I personally don't know why... been here since 2001, 2002 or so with this user, both a lot of time and edits). To make things easier for those without the privileges, On Wikipedia:Requested_moves a list of moving requests is kept, and if they're well argued, experienced users or moderators do that job. There are situations where this can't be done, though. This is the case of images, music and other uploaded goods which should be reuploaded. This is the case of the images you've added to the article, unfortunably. Since everything shares the same namespace, and to make names more unique, it's a policy to make names very descriptive. Like "Wind -A Breath of Heart- demo Insani NNL Minamo childhood promise.png" as oppossed to "Windtitlescreen.jpg". This means It'll take a bit of work for me to move them to the -'d name from the ~'d name. I won't move the ones you uploaded in order to let you be the uploader on the history of the image itself. There are other matters to be taken care of regarding your images, though. I recommend Wikipedia:Uploading_images, which is a very good guide on doing so. The problems I've noticed so far are naming, the choice of format; you chose JPEG for an image that should be PNG (policy: JPEG should be used for photos, PNG for everything else), computer graphics/screenshots tend to compress very well with PNG; and the lack of technical details on the image description (it's encouraged to explain how the screenshot was done, like "I used windows 98 and photoshop 9.1 to capture this screen from the point of the game where blah blah and being it in windowed mode. Then I edited the borders out...").
To make conversations easier to follow, it's desireable to sign them. It can be done easily by putting four consecutive ~ characters at the end of the post. It'll get expanded in a format like my signature.
After explaining all of this, I must say thank you for your contributions so far and future, and welcome to Wikipedia. You seem very knownedgeable on japanese culture and I'll be looking forward to your future contributions.
Feel free to futher discuss any issues as a reply to this post. (edit the thread, and put : on the beggining of your reply). Rvalles 00:26, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
1- The English patch is not official. There is no real English version avaiable.
2- Like I said, read what's said.
202.156.6.54 01:27, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Refer to the Japanese version of the article.
The game is ALWAYS referred to as "Wind -a breath of heart-", and never as "Wind ~a breath of heart~". I'm sorry, but I have to say this- how many of you have actually played the game? Not the translated demo, which covers about five minutes of it, but the actual game? If you haven't, could you please refrain from editing the article? It really doesn't help.
Omgwtflolz 01:36, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
One problem, though- that would be wrong. For a precedent, refer to hitomi.
Anyway, I give up on this article. I had no idea that fixing mistakes even so blatant would be this difficult, and I think I've contributed more than my fair share of actual content. Omgwtflolz 01:49, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Capitalization.
"The title of this article is incorrect due to technical limitations. The correct title is hitomi."
Omgwtflolz 02:12, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
The title is, and always has been, "Wind -a breath of heart-" in English. That's what is says on all of the Japanese websites linked to in the article, on the cover of all the versions of the game, console and PC, and on the title screen.
Anyone who has played the game can't possibly not know what the title is. :/
Ah, and Google's image search has the Dreamcast version's cover on the second page.
Omgwtflolz 02:26, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Hello, I am from Japan, I am very suprised at that there is argument about the title of the game
I just want to say, the one who say :Wind -a breath of heart- is the correct title is correct, for evidence you can go to google http://www.google.co.jp/search?as_q=&num=100&hl=ja&btnG=Google+%E6%A4%9C%E7%B4%A2&as_epq=wind+a+breath+of+heart&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=lang_ja&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=
221.117.22.194 16:33, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
The Japanese version of English grammar does not apply on the English Wikipedia. I have moved the article to Wind: A Breath of Heart and have policy to back it up, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks).
So unless anyone can cite policy stating otherwise, the article should stay where I have moved it.-- SeizureDog 04:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Can someone provide a summary of this game? Like, what the story is about? A popular story like this deserves a summary. Thanks.-- 141.213.196.250 08:06, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it is quite funny that there are so many arguments about formating going on around here, and yet no one has even bothered to give a synopsis about what the game is about. -- 71.107.222.219 ( talk) 22:55, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I removed several fair use images from this page because they violated Wikipedia's fair use guideline. I did leave the images that were in some sort of context, but just having images of all the characters next to a list of their names does not count as "critical commentary." Secondly, these images constituted a gallery (images without any corresponding article text), specifically disallowed on WP:NOT. I don't believe all of the extraneous images currently present are necessary or within policy. Comments? ~ MDD 46 96 04:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Per WP:C and Wikipedia:External links#Restrictions on linking, the website where the infringement is hosted should never be linked. The fact remains that if the info about the translations is in the article, someone will invariably add in a link to "verify" said translation at some later date. I was merely trying to cut out the very strong possibility that a link to the translation site would be added if the information was kept, thus I removed all the information regarding the translation. If you believe I am wrong in assuming this, then what do you suggest we do about it?-- 十 八 07:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Well, we do have a number of similar articles, and they seem to come up with compromises. Probably the closest is the good article Final Fantasy V, which links to romhacking.net. The Grey Album also links to sites mirroring the work in question. I'm adding a link to a FAQ on gamefaqs, which, while not the most reliable source, mentions the translation without linking directly to it. — PyTom ( talk) 18:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
It says that Kasumi wears glass to negate her power of reading minds but, she can't read minds. Her power is "being able to see ones true colors" or seeing whats in there heart. Should we change it?
Also, should we tell about the other characters powers as well? Such as Hinata's power being able to jump extreamly high. FunkMasterFlex3 ( talk) 10:04, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
This article used to have screenshots from the game showing the major characters. User:Juhachi removed them three times (citing concerns over fair use), while I reverted two. I'm not going to revert again to avoid 3RR, but I still am convinced the images helped explain the characters and made the article better. [2]
I keep copies of those images in my computers, so that we don't have to worry that they get auto-deleted because of orphaning. While I'm not reverting again, if further discussion on the topic (involving more participants) results on concensus and the change gets reverted, I will upload the images again if that's needed, just drop me a message.-- Roc Vallès Talk| Hist - 07:32, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I added the OVA to the side bar and some info about it in the history section but I have no idea what studio did it or the full name of the director so if anyone could provide that information that would be great! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Novadestin ( talk • contribs) 06:30, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
I have a lot of info I would love to add to this page, about the anime and the ova's, but I have no idea really how to set up the page with headers and what to put where. Not only that but, because I could not find episode summaries ANYWHERE, I made my own so I don't know if that would be ok to use since their not sourced you know... anyways if there is someone more wiki-intelligent then I that would like to help please let me know! Novadestin ( talk) 06:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
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>Rvalles (Wind -a breath of heart- moved to Wind 〜a breath of heart〜: Real name is like this.)
You are wrong.
For the love of god, it doesn't take a genius to read the title of the damned game. Also, your adding tons of pictures affects the readability of the article. Please stop being an idiot.
Both of you, please review
Wikipedia:Avoid personal remarks. I have "crossed out" a few phrases which don't seem directly related to the task of improving this article.
Uncle Ed
03:08, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
Someone should write something about the actual anime and not just the game.
Is it so hard to go to the official website, which is LINKED TO ON THE ARTICLE, and look at the title of the game?
http://www.minori.ph/lineup/wind.html
"Wind -a breath of heart-".
Let's take a look at some of the other sites linked to on the article.
http://www.alchemist-net.co.jp/products/wind_dc/
"Wind -a breath of heart-".
"Wind -a breath of heart-".
There isn't anything to discuss. You are wrong. That is a fact.
Why does the first line of the article say "{{{{{2|{{{2}}}}}}|1 {{{media=void|2={{{3}}}}}} | Infobox CVG/media | {{{media}}}}}" -- SoothingR 07:20, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
...a problem with the infobox.
I guess it'd be a good idea to remove it for now, at least till someone can fix it.
I have merged the page histories from the unicode version. Now feel free to change stuff around. R e dwolf24 ( talk) 00:18, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Rvalles, your adding unnecessary images is affecting the readability of the article. And yes, big chunks of blank space DO affect the readability of the article. Please stop.
Besides, this article is about the game, not the translation patch. If you really want to add screenshots, it'd be better to add ones from the original game.
I've looked into the text/image layout problem you seem to be suffering; this is not how a image should be displayed with "right|thumb". The images are suppossed not to disturb layout, so that text continues in an independent manner. This is the expected behaviour and it can be observed in all browsers I've tried. They are:
I should note I've not logged in with any of them, so the default stylesheet was displayed. It seems them it's a very specific problem affecting just your webbrowser. Many browsers are known to have problems with some wikipedia features, Internet Explorer being one of the kings (see Wikipedia:Browser notes), and being, in general, problematic with format, having very incomplete/outdated/bad support for Web standards. I personally recommend to switch to Firefox; there are many other options of capable browsers, but the reason I do recommend this one is that on wikipedia, the use of open standards are important. There's why we avoid GIF and use PNG instead, or why we use Ogg-Vorbis as per-policy and not MP3. On the matter of the html code itself, Web standards are religiously respected, and Firefox is, at this moment, the most popular webbrowser which is both free software and available for many platforms (important from a universal access to wikipedia point of view) On Wikipedia, we don't try and work around browser bugs on articles themselves. The right|thumb method constitutes a very useful way of placing images, allowing for the placing of a lot of them without disturbing the article text at all. It is then popular and you'll see a whole lot of articles using this method (like Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu or Full Metal Panic!: The Second Raid, being both good examples of articles using that feature extensivelly. Check Wikipedia:Picture_tutorial for futher info on image formatting.
Having addressed this browser-specific issue, I should say that I disagree with the other arguments you've used so far to defend removing them. Let's be specific: This is the english wikipedia. We speak/read/write/whatever english here. Additionally having some screenshot from the original version of the game may indeed add some value, but let's stick to the english versions whether available, by default. Now, you might think there were too many images on the first place. Well, let me explain. Unlike a dictionary, a anime or game database, or whatever other sort of place, an article here it's supposed to be an enciclopedic article. It is supposed to be extensive, verbose, enciclopedic, to cover as much as possible. One of the points needed to archieve that on an article about this kind of game is, without a doubt, documenting the characters (or possible girlfriends...) on an extensive way. From the graphical front, that does mean having screenshots showing each of them; it would not be complete otherwise, and in my own, personal bias I'm positive as someone who likes this kind of games that having those is something that is very apreciated.
On the matter of AniDB links, it seems you've removed them twice; your reason as told in your edit summary seems to be "Those sites are very obviously not in Japanese.". Well, this is the english enciclopedia. There's why links written in english are valuable; more than that, we try to link to sites which are in english, on purpose. When for some reason that is not possible and we feel we should include a link to a page written in a different language (let's say, the official site for wind, which is in japanese...), the common policy is to warn (in japanese) on the link comment, so that the reader knows before opening it. Having said so I think those links should be there. We're still a long way from reaching that point, but AniDB is a very valuable database for many of us, and we're trying so that all entries about an anime have a link to their AniDB node. To make it even easier, a macro was created, and we use it instead of placing the whole URL there, very convenient considering AniDB does indeed have many domain names, is hosted in a non-ludicrous way, have had some of them non-working on the past, and is likely to drop many of them on the future.
On the matter of naming, I was very wrong when I renamed the page to the name with double-width ~s instead of -. I don't recall where I got that idea from (bad memory), but I must have followed bad leads, probably from some shop instead of just looking at the official page itself (my bad!). The reason I so quickly reverted your article move in the first place doesn't have anything to do with believing either name to be the most apropiate, tho. On wikipedia, atribution is important. We keep track of who did change what, as a way to give proper credit to our editors. When a page is moved by the cut and paste method, this list of changes isn't moved, leading to the loss of them. To avoid that, we have other methods to move pages without this trouble, but to avoid problems such as vandalism, only registered users and only those which a considerable number of edits and/or age (I'm one of them but I personally don't know why... been here since 2001, 2002 or so with this user, both a lot of time and edits). To make things easier for those without the privileges, On Wikipedia:Requested_moves a list of moving requests is kept, and if they're well argued, experienced users or moderators do that job. There are situations where this can't be done, though. This is the case of images, music and other uploaded goods which should be reuploaded. This is the case of the images you've added to the article, unfortunably. Since everything shares the same namespace, and to make names more unique, it's a policy to make names very descriptive. Like "Wind -A Breath of Heart- demo Insani NNL Minamo childhood promise.png" as oppossed to "Windtitlescreen.jpg". This means It'll take a bit of work for me to move them to the -'d name from the ~'d name. I won't move the ones you uploaded in order to let you be the uploader on the history of the image itself. There are other matters to be taken care of regarding your images, though. I recommend Wikipedia:Uploading_images, which is a very good guide on doing so. The problems I've noticed so far are naming, the choice of format; you chose JPEG for an image that should be PNG (policy: JPEG should be used for photos, PNG for everything else), computer graphics/screenshots tend to compress very well with PNG; and the lack of technical details on the image description (it's encouraged to explain how the screenshot was done, like "I used windows 98 and photoshop 9.1 to capture this screen from the point of the game where blah blah and being it in windowed mode. Then I edited the borders out...").
To make conversations easier to follow, it's desireable to sign them. It can be done easily by putting four consecutive ~ characters at the end of the post. It'll get expanded in a format like my signature.
After explaining all of this, I must say thank you for your contributions so far and future, and welcome to Wikipedia. You seem very knownedgeable on japanese culture and I'll be looking forward to your future contributions.
Feel free to futher discuss any issues as a reply to this post. (edit the thread, and put : on the beggining of your reply). Rvalles 00:26, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
1- The English patch is not official. There is no real English version avaiable.
2- Like I said, read what's said.
202.156.6.54 01:27, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Refer to the Japanese version of the article.
The game is ALWAYS referred to as "Wind -a breath of heart-", and never as "Wind ~a breath of heart~". I'm sorry, but I have to say this- how many of you have actually played the game? Not the translated demo, which covers about five minutes of it, but the actual game? If you haven't, could you please refrain from editing the article? It really doesn't help.
Omgwtflolz 01:36, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
One problem, though- that would be wrong. For a precedent, refer to hitomi.
Anyway, I give up on this article. I had no idea that fixing mistakes even so blatant would be this difficult, and I think I've contributed more than my fair share of actual content. Omgwtflolz 01:49, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Capitalization.
"The title of this article is incorrect due to technical limitations. The correct title is hitomi."
Omgwtflolz 02:12, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
The title is, and always has been, "Wind -a breath of heart-" in English. That's what is says on all of the Japanese websites linked to in the article, on the cover of all the versions of the game, console and PC, and on the title screen.
Anyone who has played the game can't possibly not know what the title is. :/
Ah, and Google's image search has the Dreamcast version's cover on the second page.
Omgwtflolz 02:26, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Hello, I am from Japan, I am very suprised at that there is argument about the title of the game
I just want to say, the one who say :Wind -a breath of heart- is the correct title is correct, for evidence you can go to google http://www.google.co.jp/search?as_q=&num=100&hl=ja&btnG=Google+%E6%A4%9C%E7%B4%A2&as_epq=wind+a+breath+of+heart&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=lang_ja&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=
221.117.22.194 16:33, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
The Japanese version of English grammar does not apply on the English Wikipedia. I have moved the article to Wind: A Breath of Heart and have policy to back it up, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks).
So unless anyone can cite policy stating otherwise, the article should stay where I have moved it.-- SeizureDog 04:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Can someone provide a summary of this game? Like, what the story is about? A popular story like this deserves a summary. Thanks.-- 141.213.196.250 08:06, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it is quite funny that there are so many arguments about formating going on around here, and yet no one has even bothered to give a synopsis about what the game is about. -- 71.107.222.219 ( talk) 22:55, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I removed several fair use images from this page because they violated Wikipedia's fair use guideline. I did leave the images that were in some sort of context, but just having images of all the characters next to a list of their names does not count as "critical commentary." Secondly, these images constituted a gallery (images without any corresponding article text), specifically disallowed on WP:NOT. I don't believe all of the extraneous images currently present are necessary or within policy. Comments? ~ MDD 46 96 04:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Per WP:C and Wikipedia:External links#Restrictions on linking, the website where the infringement is hosted should never be linked. The fact remains that if the info about the translations is in the article, someone will invariably add in a link to "verify" said translation at some later date. I was merely trying to cut out the very strong possibility that a link to the translation site would be added if the information was kept, thus I removed all the information regarding the translation. If you believe I am wrong in assuming this, then what do you suggest we do about it?-- 十 八 07:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Well, we do have a number of similar articles, and they seem to come up with compromises. Probably the closest is the good article Final Fantasy V, which links to romhacking.net. The Grey Album also links to sites mirroring the work in question. I'm adding a link to a FAQ on gamefaqs, which, while not the most reliable source, mentions the translation without linking directly to it. — PyTom ( talk) 18:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
It says that Kasumi wears glass to negate her power of reading minds but, she can't read minds. Her power is "being able to see ones true colors" or seeing whats in there heart. Should we change it?
Also, should we tell about the other characters powers as well? Such as Hinata's power being able to jump extreamly high. FunkMasterFlex3 ( talk) 10:04, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
This article used to have screenshots from the game showing the major characters. User:Juhachi removed them three times (citing concerns over fair use), while I reverted two. I'm not going to revert again to avoid 3RR, but I still am convinced the images helped explain the characters and made the article better. [2]
I keep copies of those images in my computers, so that we don't have to worry that they get auto-deleted because of orphaning. While I'm not reverting again, if further discussion on the topic (involving more participants) results on concensus and the change gets reverted, I will upload the images again if that's needed, just drop me a message.-- Roc Vallès Talk| Hist - 07:32, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I added the OVA to the side bar and some info about it in the history section but I have no idea what studio did it or the full name of the director so if anyone could provide that information that would be great! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Novadestin ( talk • contribs) 06:30, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
I have a lot of info I would love to add to this page, about the anime and the ova's, but I have no idea really how to set up the page with headers and what to put where. Not only that but, because I could not find episode summaries ANYWHERE, I made my own so I don't know if that would be ok to use since their not sourced you know... anyways if there is someone more wiki-intelligent then I that would like to help please let me know! Novadestin ( talk) 06:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)