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I'm not sure we can even mention Foster's music career in this article, as there are no
reliable sources that the career even exists, or that "Will Major" on Apple Music is the former Rutgers player Willie Foster. Once the AfD wraps up (assuming it's kept), I think all mention of the rap career would need to be taken out since it's mostly original research/unverifiable. Eagles24/7(C)03:40, 4 March 2021 (UTC)reply
I've removed the discography section, and once the article is renamed, the lead should remove reference to the purported stage name. Keeping it in for now to avoid confusion until the article is properly renamed. Eagles24/7(C)19:20, 6 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Requested move 6 March 2021
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Only one Wikipedia main title header is proposed for the form "Willie Foster". The header of the Wikipedia entry for the baseball player is
Bill Foster (baseball), not "Willie Foster", and all the links under his article's section headers "Notes", "References" and "External links" list him as "Bill", with none referencing him as "Willie". As for the Chicago blues harmonicist, singer, and songwriter, he has been usually referenced by the form "Little Willie Foster", rather than as simply "Willie Foster". Ultimately, resolving such uncertainties is the purpose of
hatnotes and there should be hatnotes atop the entries for both the English keyboardist
Will Foster (even if other notables may be nicknamed "Will") and the footballer
Willie Foster/
Will Major stating, For other people with similar names, see
William Foster (disambiguation). —
Roman Spinner(talk •
contribs)01:26, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
This one
[1] is used for the Willie Foster ref at
1926 Chicago American Giants season, and a Google test for "Willie Foster baseball" brought back lots more. I just don't see a football player with an unremarkable career being the
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC vs. a Hall of Famer, even if he is usually known by a different diminutive. If anything
Willie Foster could be a dab page for these three (and Will Foster too if any sources have him as Willie.)
162.208.168.92 (
talk)
01:45, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Granted, an occasional reference does name the baseball player as "Willie", but obviously his
WP:COMMONNAME is "Bill", according to the 13 inline cites in his article, all the other references, including
Hall of Fame and baseball databases. As for the creation of a separate
Willie Foster disambiguation page, the standard Wikipedia practice is to combine Will, Willy, Willie, Billie, Billy and Bill under the William disambiguation page.
Such combining is clearly not followed with this name, since
Bill Foster currently exists as a separate disambiguation page which should be merged into the
William Foster dab page. Thus, anyone searching for a sports figure named either "Bill Foster", "Billy Foster", "Will Foster" or "Willie Foster" can simply check the William Foster dab page under section header "Sportsmen" and quickly determine which name is the correct one. Of course, unique main title headers such as, in this case,
Will Foster or
Willie Foster, need to carry hatnotes pointing to the
William Foster dab page. —
Roman Spinner(talk •
contribs)02:44, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The above-mentioned proposed merge is, of course, not at issue as part of this RM and can be argued elsewhere. The main point remains, however, that it is not Wikipedia practice to append a parenthetical qualifier to a unique main title header, such as
Willie Foster, solely because another subject of a Wikipedia entry, whose header is under a different name, has also been occasionally known by this name. Such instances are almost always resolved via hatnotes. —
Roman Spinner(talk •
contribs)05:59, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The sole topic bearing that exact name is automatically its own primary topic unless a compelling case can be made that a
WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT has such an overwhelming renown that it takes precedence. Such cases are extremely rare — even an obvious example such as
Jack Kennedy being a primary redirect to
John F. Kennedy is not a good representation since there are a number of men named "Jack Kennedy" who would have had to have been disambiguated even without the primary redirect.
"Automatically its own primary topic" is not a phrase I've seen in any Wikipedia policy.
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC suggests two main criteria (usage, and long-term significance), and the football player fails both.
162.208.168.92 (
talk)
18:52, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
"Automatically its own primary topic" is basically a complicated way of stating the simple fact that there is no
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for
Willie Foster in the same manner that there is no primary topic for
Will Foster. Usage and long-term significance are totally immaterial for both names since there are no other Wikipedia main title headers bearing either of those names. All that is needed is a hatnote atop each of the two entries pointing to the
William Foster dab page. —
Roman Spinner(talk •
contribs)23:23, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Move to
Willie Foster, and use a hatnote to differentiate between the baseball player the musician, and the dab page, per Roman Spinner. Adding the "gridiron football" appendage would be adding unnecessary disambiguation when there is currently no primary topic for "Willie Foster."
Ejgreen77 (
talk)
11:58, 8 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Requested move 15 March 2021
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
OpposeWillie Foster currently acts as a
WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT, the subject of which is a member of the Baseball Hall of Fame; as
this site describes him, the greatest left-handed pitcher in Negro League history. To move this link to instead point to a football player with a completely unremarkable career would be in conflict with
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and
WP:QUALIFIER. This was discussed at length in the original RM, which I encourage everyone to read as well.
162.208.168.92 (
talk)
03:38, 15 March 2021 (UTC)reply
If the baseball player's
WP:COMMONNAME was in fact "Willie", as it was in the case of
Willie Mays, then the main title header of his Wikipedia entry would have been created as "
Willie Foster", rather than as "
Bill Foster (baseball)" or someone would have proposed it for a move to "Willie Foster" a long time ago.
Yes per
WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT similar to the Mike Thornton case as I noted below even if only a small percentage of time the other 2 were called "Willie Foster" the gridiron football wouldn't be primary even if the baseball player is more commonly known as "Bill Forster" today per
WP:COMMONNAME he still completes for this title. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
20:37, 16 March 2021 (UTC)reply
But I have not proposed "that
Willie Foster (gridiron football) become the primary topic". In fact, the term "primary topic" does not appear anywhere within the nomination. The nomination simply posits that since there is only a single Wikipedia main title header for
Willie Foster as well as for
Will Foster or for
Billy Foster, all of those headers should be analogous in not carrying a parenthetical qualifier and not redirecting to the all-inclusive
William Foster disambiguation page, but simply exist as stand-alone entries with
hatnotes — For people with similar names... — that point to the dab page. —
Roman Spinner(talk •
contribs)23:56, 16 March 2021 (UTC)reply
162.208.168.92 and I have provided evidence that the other 2 are called this at least sometimes even if its not their most common name its still unlikely the gridiron football is primary by usage and this one had a no consensus AFD so I don't think long-term significance is in favour of this one other again per 162.208.168.92. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
09:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)reply
OpposeBill Foster (baseball) has 297 views and "Willie Foster" is referenced as an alternative name in the infobox and
Little Willy Foster has 98 while the gridiron footballer only has 7[
[2]] its reasonable to assert that the gridiron footballer isn't primary since even if only 1 in 40 uses this term to refer to the baseball player the gridiron footballer wouldn't likely be primary if there was one. However maybe the basename should become a DAB. I'd note that a Google search for Willie Foster returns the WP article for Little Willy Foster first. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
09:14, 15 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject College football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
college football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.College footballWikipedia:WikiProject College footballTemplate:WikiProject College footballcollege football articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canadian football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Canadian football and the Canadian Football League on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Canadian footballWikipedia:WikiProject Canadian footballTemplate:WikiProject Canadian footballCanadian football articles
I'm not sure we can even mention Foster's music career in this article, as there are no
reliable sources that the career even exists, or that "Will Major" on Apple Music is the former Rutgers player Willie Foster. Once the AfD wraps up (assuming it's kept), I think all mention of the rap career would need to be taken out since it's mostly original research/unverifiable. Eagles24/7(C)03:40, 4 March 2021 (UTC)reply
I've removed the discography section, and once the article is renamed, the lead should remove reference to the purported stage name. Keeping it in for now to avoid confusion until the article is properly renamed. Eagles24/7(C)19:20, 6 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Requested move 6 March 2021
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Only one Wikipedia main title header is proposed for the form "Willie Foster". The header of the Wikipedia entry for the baseball player is
Bill Foster (baseball), not "Willie Foster", and all the links under his article's section headers "Notes", "References" and "External links" list him as "Bill", with none referencing him as "Willie". As for the Chicago blues harmonicist, singer, and songwriter, he has been usually referenced by the form "Little Willie Foster", rather than as simply "Willie Foster". Ultimately, resolving such uncertainties is the purpose of
hatnotes and there should be hatnotes atop the entries for both the English keyboardist
Will Foster (even if other notables may be nicknamed "Will") and the footballer
Willie Foster/
Will Major stating, For other people with similar names, see
William Foster (disambiguation). —
Roman Spinner(talk •
contribs)01:26, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
This one
[1] is used for the Willie Foster ref at
1926 Chicago American Giants season, and a Google test for "Willie Foster baseball" brought back lots more. I just don't see a football player with an unremarkable career being the
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC vs. a Hall of Famer, even if he is usually known by a different diminutive. If anything
Willie Foster could be a dab page for these three (and Will Foster too if any sources have him as Willie.)
162.208.168.92 (
talk)
01:45, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Granted, an occasional reference does name the baseball player as "Willie", but obviously his
WP:COMMONNAME is "Bill", according to the 13 inline cites in his article, all the other references, including
Hall of Fame and baseball databases. As for the creation of a separate
Willie Foster disambiguation page, the standard Wikipedia practice is to combine Will, Willy, Willie, Billie, Billy and Bill under the William disambiguation page.
Such combining is clearly not followed with this name, since
Bill Foster currently exists as a separate disambiguation page which should be merged into the
William Foster dab page. Thus, anyone searching for a sports figure named either "Bill Foster", "Billy Foster", "Will Foster" or "Willie Foster" can simply check the William Foster dab page under section header "Sportsmen" and quickly determine which name is the correct one. Of course, unique main title headers such as, in this case,
Will Foster or
Willie Foster, need to carry hatnotes pointing to the
William Foster dab page. —
Roman Spinner(talk •
contribs)02:44, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The above-mentioned proposed merge is, of course, not at issue as part of this RM and can be argued elsewhere. The main point remains, however, that it is not Wikipedia practice to append a parenthetical qualifier to a unique main title header, such as
Willie Foster, solely because another subject of a Wikipedia entry, whose header is under a different name, has also been occasionally known by this name. Such instances are almost always resolved via hatnotes. —
Roman Spinner(talk •
contribs)05:59, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The sole topic bearing that exact name is automatically its own primary topic unless a compelling case can be made that a
WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT has such an overwhelming renown that it takes precedence. Such cases are extremely rare — even an obvious example such as
Jack Kennedy being a primary redirect to
John F. Kennedy is not a good representation since there are a number of men named "Jack Kennedy" who would have had to have been disambiguated even without the primary redirect.
"Automatically its own primary topic" is not a phrase I've seen in any Wikipedia policy.
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC suggests two main criteria (usage, and long-term significance), and the football player fails both.
162.208.168.92 (
talk)
18:52, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
"Automatically its own primary topic" is basically a complicated way of stating the simple fact that there is no
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for
Willie Foster in the same manner that there is no primary topic for
Will Foster. Usage and long-term significance are totally immaterial for both names since there are no other Wikipedia main title headers bearing either of those names. All that is needed is a hatnote atop each of the two entries pointing to the
William Foster dab page. —
Roman Spinner(talk •
contribs)23:23, 7 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Move to
Willie Foster, and use a hatnote to differentiate between the baseball player the musician, and the dab page, per Roman Spinner. Adding the "gridiron football" appendage would be adding unnecessary disambiguation when there is currently no primary topic for "Willie Foster."
Ejgreen77 (
talk)
11:58, 8 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Requested move 15 March 2021
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
OpposeWillie Foster currently acts as a
WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT, the subject of which is a member of the Baseball Hall of Fame; as
this site describes him, the greatest left-handed pitcher in Negro League history. To move this link to instead point to a football player with a completely unremarkable career would be in conflict with
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and
WP:QUALIFIER. This was discussed at length in the original RM, which I encourage everyone to read as well.
162.208.168.92 (
talk)
03:38, 15 March 2021 (UTC)reply
If the baseball player's
WP:COMMONNAME was in fact "Willie", as it was in the case of
Willie Mays, then the main title header of his Wikipedia entry would have been created as "
Willie Foster", rather than as "
Bill Foster (baseball)" or someone would have proposed it for a move to "Willie Foster" a long time ago.
Yes per
WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT similar to the Mike Thornton case as I noted below even if only a small percentage of time the other 2 were called "Willie Foster" the gridiron football wouldn't be primary even if the baseball player is more commonly known as "Bill Forster" today per
WP:COMMONNAME he still completes for this title. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
20:37, 16 March 2021 (UTC)reply
But I have not proposed "that
Willie Foster (gridiron football) become the primary topic". In fact, the term "primary topic" does not appear anywhere within the nomination. The nomination simply posits that since there is only a single Wikipedia main title header for
Willie Foster as well as for
Will Foster or for
Billy Foster, all of those headers should be analogous in not carrying a parenthetical qualifier and not redirecting to the all-inclusive
William Foster disambiguation page, but simply exist as stand-alone entries with
hatnotes — For people with similar names... — that point to the dab page. —
Roman Spinner(talk •
contribs)23:56, 16 March 2021 (UTC)reply
162.208.168.92 and I have provided evidence that the other 2 are called this at least sometimes even if its not their most common name its still unlikely the gridiron football is primary by usage and this one had a no consensus AFD so I don't think long-term significance is in favour of this one other again per 162.208.168.92. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
09:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)reply
OpposeBill Foster (baseball) has 297 views and "Willie Foster" is referenced as an alternative name in the infobox and
Little Willy Foster has 98 while the gridiron footballer only has 7[
[2]] its reasonable to assert that the gridiron footballer isn't primary since even if only 1 in 40 uses this term to refer to the baseball player the gridiron footballer wouldn't likely be primary if there was one. However maybe the basename should become a DAB. I'd note that a Google search for Willie Foster returns the WP article for Little Willy Foster first. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
09:14, 15 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: