William Howard Livens was a Warfare good articles nominee, but did not meet the
good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
You have the wrong Livens. Frederick Howard Livens married Prissie Abbott in 1886. They had 2 daughters and a son, William Howard Livens. It was the son who at the age of 25 joined the Royal Engineers and invented the Livens Projector. FH Livens continued as Vice Chairman Ruston and Hornsby and Vice President of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers. He was a distinguished engineer but did not serve in the Army in WW1, by when he would have been about 50 years old. My family descend directly from FH Livens and we hold family records for Uncle Will - Captain WH Livens, inventor of the Livens Projector.
Dukest (
talk) 10:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Dukest: The article has now been significantly improved and I hope any concerns you may have have been addressed. If you have any further information, I would be very pleased to hear from you and to share the information I have myself collected.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 14:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)reply
I have written this article over an extended period and think that it has come up rather well.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 18:48, 30 January 2009 (UTC)reply
GA on hold
Hi there, I have reviewed this article against the
Wikipedia:good article criteria and I am afraid that I am not prepared to pass the article for GA immediately. I have listed below the principle problems which prevent this article from achieving GA status and I have also appended a list of other comments which may help in the future development of the article. The article now has seven days to address these issues, and should the contributors disagree with my comments then please indicate below why you disagree and suggest a solution, compromise or explanation. Further time will be granted if a concerted effort is being made to address the problems, and as long as somebody is genuinely trying to deal with the issues raised then I will not fail the article. I am aware that my standards are quite high, but I feel that an article deserves as thorough a review as possible when applying for GA and that a tough review process here is an important stepping stone to future FAC attempts. Please do not take offence at anything I have said, nothing is meant personally and maliciously and if anyone feels aggrieved then please notify me at once and I will attempt to clarify the comments in question. Finally, should anyone disagree with my review or eventual decision then please take the article to
WP:GAR to allow a wider selection of editors to comment on the issues discussed here. Well done on the work so far.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:43, 3 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Huge problems. For an ideal picture of how a military biography should look, I recommend checking out
William Bostock or other work by the same editor. Notice that the article is presented in clear paragraphs, that give the events described a proper sequence and context. It has a properly developed lead that introduces the man and gives a clear indication of his personality, major events in his life and why he is notable. There are quotes about him and each event in which he is involved is clearly explained so that there is no need to look at other articles for context. Even more importantly, each event is in sequence, unlike this article which leaps forward to 1917 and back to 1916 again. This article has many stubby unconnected sentences which make it almost impossible to clearly read: it looks like the entire article needs to be completely rewritten along these lines before it has any serious chance of making GA. Fortunately, all the information you need seems to be in the article already - you have done the research, now it must be properly presented. Once it has been placed into organised paragraphs I will review the prose again for writing style.
While I can appreciate that the article is far from perfect, I must ask you to explain some of your objections. You must understand that the sources for the life of WHL are limited and biographies of him are quite short; I cannot fill gaps, however frustrating they may be, if there are no verifyable sources. There are relatively few quotes published about him, none-the-less there two in the article. Everything is in sequence with an occasional exception for the sake of clarity - discussing the increasing range of the projector for instance - or do you have something else in mind?
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I don't think I've explained myself very well: Although there are rough edges in the prose, the problem is your paragraph structure. The reason I gave you
William Bostock as an example was that all of its sentences are connected together into organised paragraphs that present an organised thought. Here, especially in the early life section, the sentences are unconnected. As an example, you have the paragraph "Father and son had a close relationship and collaborated on many projects." Firstly, what projects? Secondly, this would be better joined to the previous paragraph to develop Livens' relationship with his father. This is the example of a problem that recurrs throughout the article, when unconnected sentences appear without context.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
OK. I have done a lot to improve things. There is more to do. I'd appreciate any specific suggestions if you have them.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 21:51, 7 February 2009 (UTC)reply
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (
OR):
I can see a couple of places where citations are essential (again, I'll wait for the rewrite before pointing out where). Also, when giving page numbers use p. X or pp. X-XX
Changing the style of the page numbers is not a problem.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Can you please identify places where you feel extra citations are needed. Thanks.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 21:51, 7 February 2009 (UTC)reply
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
Background has to be reworked: describe as much of his childhood as you can, what did he study at Cambridge? Why was an engineer writing for Country Life?
Unfortunately, the available sources, which are really quite limited, are quite silent on these matters. The article simply states the known facts without adding any speculation.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I will leave judgement on this until the other problems are dealt with, but this may result in the article failing until more sources can be located.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Explain the Lusitania thing more clearly: if the story is erroneous then say so (in fact, the entire bit is better explained in a footnote, as is the explanation about the discrepancies in his given rank).
I thought that the "Lusitania thing" was quite clear. There is no way to know for sure that it is erroneous, although, as explained in some detail, it probably is. The discrepancies in rank might do well in footnote, but it is so common in references to WHL that I thought it worth explaining with some prominance.
It's not clear at all. It seems a relatively simple thing (historically speaking) to establish whether or not Livens was married before 1915 and whether his wife actually died on the Lusitania. This is not a small problem: the death of his wife in such circumstances must have had a major effect on him if true and yet this effect is not described. If false, then where on earth did such a rumour come from? You also introduce it by saying that his wife may have died on the Lusitania but have not previously mentioned that he was married.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
OK. I hope that I have made that episode clearer.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 21:51, 7 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Sorry to come to this late, but my understanding is that the date of the marriage is not the point. The story as I heard it was that she was his fiancee when Livens thought she was on the Lusitania; accordingly, the date of the marriage has no bearing on Livens' desire to kill Germans.
Iain1917 (
talk) 07:27, 7 October 2010 (UTC)reply
More about his family.
More about the 20 years after World War II
Again, the source material simply is not available.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
Quite a bit of
WP:PEACOCK material, although this is probably the result of the poor writing than a deliberate attempt at bias.
Oh dear! Can you indicate an example please?
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
On a second look, it seems that I was overly harsh in my judgement on this issue: the "peacock" terms were either less biased on a second reading or backed up by sources. Sorry.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
It is stable.
It contains
images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have
fair use rationales):
Overall:
a Pass/Fail:
Other comments
Molotov cocktail was not a term in use in 1916 for obvious reasons: its use here is an anachronism.
Possibly it is anachronistic, but it is the term used in the source.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
If its from a source then use it in a quote, otherwise it is an anachronism.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I have re-written that paragraph to avoid reference to molotov cocktail.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 21:53, 7 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Your wikilinks are all over the place: link a proper noun or technical term the first time it appears only.
It really does not seem over-linked to me. Can you give some examples?
Gaius Cornelius (
talk)
Overlinking is not the problem, the problem is the way you have linked things. For example, the
Battle of the Somme should be linked as soon as you start talking about it
"the cost of killing Germans could be reduced to sixteen shillings each." - what does this mean?
I suppose that I should not take it for granted that the reader knows what a shilling is. I'll fix that.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I know what a shilling is, what I don't know is what the quote means: how would Livens' invention make it cheaper to kill Germans? This is what I mean above about a lack of context.
Give the citation for his military cross, in sequence and in context, so its clear why he was awarded it.
There are no citations published, but I will add some explanatory text.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Sorry, I was thinking of the official citation, normally published in the
London Gazette (as in
John Brunt). It appears however that Livens' citation wasn't published (at least not there) so disregard this for now.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I'm sorry, but since it appears that there is no more information forthcoming on his life, particularly for the period after World War II, I cannot pass this article at this time. Thankyou for your work on the article so far and good luck in the future. If you feel this desicion is in anyway unfair, please feel free to appeal at
WP:GAR.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 18:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I do appreciate being prodded into improving the article. However, the reviewer has taken no interest in the article's improvement and has dismissed it on unreasonable grounds. The article is a fair summary of the published information about WHL; as happens to so many people, his life outside his profession is obscure and not a matter of public record - and it probably never will be. There is no reason to believe that WHL’s private life is of special interest and even if it was this should not stop his biography from achieving Good Article status – see footnote three of
Wikipedia:Good article criteria. If this cannot be resolved here, I will appeal the decision.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 17:19, 16 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Actually I did take an interest in the article's improvement: I made a list of required improvements above, some of which were implemented and some of which were not. The article then went for five days without any improvement (and no notification from the nominator that they were unavailable at this time). I therefore concluded that these improvements were not going to be made, as indeed they still have not. I suggest that you take this to GAR for an appeal, because I am not going to pass the article in its current state. At GAR I will explain exactly why I failed the article and hopefully a wider consensus can bring improvements that will help the article reach GA standard. I mean (and meant) no offence in my review and appreciate the already substantial improvements made to the article since the review process began. Regards--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 18:07, 16 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Jackyd101: Firstly, I am sure that I must seem ungrateful for your time and efforts, and ungracious in my protestations; that is not what I intend and I thank you for your trouble. I must admit that I got too tied up in the business of collecting facts to the neglect of the writing and you are absolutely right to point out such deficiencies. I realise that the article needs more work and I expect that to take a little time. However, I hope you will understand my distressed at the idea that no matter what I do, the article cannot be "Good" if it does not contain certain details that are not available from verifiable sources. Given that this point necessarily applies to all articles, do you think that the general point be discussed in
Wikipedia talk:Good article criteria instead of this particular instance at GAR? Thanks.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 13:27, 17 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I see no reason why not and would be happy to participate in such a discussion. I would also like to point you to the GA review on the talk page of
John Capper, an article I worked on and which was failed for exactly the reason this article has not passed at this time: such is the required standard. However, further discussion on this would be valuable.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 18:04, 17 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I will start off the discussion soon.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 09:11, 19 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Ref: Banks, Sir Donald, Flame over Britain: A Personal Narrative of Petroleum Warfare, Sampson Low Marston, London 1946
Best wishes (
Msrasnw (
talk) 13:45, 12 April 2011 (UTC))reply
Yes, it should be 1946 - well spotted! There is a bit of a problem with that book in that it does not have the publication date printed in it. However, it is generally agreed to have been written in 1946.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 17:03, 12 April 2011 (UTC)reply
1911 census
Records that WHL was at the Drayton Court Hotel, West Ealing in London on the day of the Census. He recorded his occupation as medical student and his birthplace as Lincoln. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
86.136.64.239 (
talk •
contribs) 15:58, 23 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Source for September 15th 1915 letter?
In the World War I section, there appear to be several typos in the "Letter written by Livens' from the trenches September 15th 1915 To his sister Mary" (examples: "line)paid" instead of "line) paid", "address is .. Kentish Town" instead of "address is... Kentish Town", "will be ready soon _ I have spent" instead of "will be ready soon - I have spent").
In order to determine which typos were in the original (surely he didn't use an underscore where a dash should be!) I looked for a source and could not find one online. does anyone have a source for this letter? --
Dalek Supreme X (
talk) 14:11, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
William Howard Livens was a Warfare good articles nominee, but did not meet the
good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
You have the wrong Livens. Frederick Howard Livens married Prissie Abbott in 1886. They had 2 daughters and a son, William Howard Livens. It was the son who at the age of 25 joined the Royal Engineers and invented the Livens Projector. FH Livens continued as Vice Chairman Ruston and Hornsby and Vice President of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers. He was a distinguished engineer but did not serve in the Army in WW1, by when he would have been about 50 years old. My family descend directly from FH Livens and we hold family records for Uncle Will - Captain WH Livens, inventor of the Livens Projector.
Dukest (
talk) 10:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Dukest: The article has now been significantly improved and I hope any concerns you may have have been addressed. If you have any further information, I would be very pleased to hear from you and to share the information I have myself collected.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 14:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)reply
I have written this article over an extended period and think that it has come up rather well.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 18:48, 30 January 2009 (UTC)reply
GA on hold
Hi there, I have reviewed this article against the
Wikipedia:good article criteria and I am afraid that I am not prepared to pass the article for GA immediately. I have listed below the principle problems which prevent this article from achieving GA status and I have also appended a list of other comments which may help in the future development of the article. The article now has seven days to address these issues, and should the contributors disagree with my comments then please indicate below why you disagree and suggest a solution, compromise or explanation. Further time will be granted if a concerted effort is being made to address the problems, and as long as somebody is genuinely trying to deal with the issues raised then I will not fail the article. I am aware that my standards are quite high, but I feel that an article deserves as thorough a review as possible when applying for GA and that a tough review process here is an important stepping stone to future FAC attempts. Please do not take offence at anything I have said, nothing is meant personally and maliciously and if anyone feels aggrieved then please notify me at once and I will attempt to clarify the comments in question. Finally, should anyone disagree with my review or eventual decision then please take the article to
WP:GAR to allow a wider selection of editors to comment on the issues discussed here. Well done on the work so far.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:43, 3 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Huge problems. For an ideal picture of how a military biography should look, I recommend checking out
William Bostock or other work by the same editor. Notice that the article is presented in clear paragraphs, that give the events described a proper sequence and context. It has a properly developed lead that introduces the man and gives a clear indication of his personality, major events in his life and why he is notable. There are quotes about him and each event in which he is involved is clearly explained so that there is no need to look at other articles for context. Even more importantly, each event is in sequence, unlike this article which leaps forward to 1917 and back to 1916 again. This article has many stubby unconnected sentences which make it almost impossible to clearly read: it looks like the entire article needs to be completely rewritten along these lines before it has any serious chance of making GA. Fortunately, all the information you need seems to be in the article already - you have done the research, now it must be properly presented. Once it has been placed into organised paragraphs I will review the prose again for writing style.
While I can appreciate that the article is far from perfect, I must ask you to explain some of your objections. You must understand that the sources for the life of WHL are limited and biographies of him are quite short; I cannot fill gaps, however frustrating they may be, if there are no verifyable sources. There are relatively few quotes published about him, none-the-less there two in the article. Everything is in sequence with an occasional exception for the sake of clarity - discussing the increasing range of the projector for instance - or do you have something else in mind?
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I don't think I've explained myself very well: Although there are rough edges in the prose, the problem is your paragraph structure. The reason I gave you
William Bostock as an example was that all of its sentences are connected together into organised paragraphs that present an organised thought. Here, especially in the early life section, the sentences are unconnected. As an example, you have the paragraph "Father and son had a close relationship and collaborated on many projects." Firstly, what projects? Secondly, this would be better joined to the previous paragraph to develop Livens' relationship with his father. This is the example of a problem that recurrs throughout the article, when unconnected sentences appear without context.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
OK. I have done a lot to improve things. There is more to do. I'd appreciate any specific suggestions if you have them.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 21:51, 7 February 2009 (UTC)reply
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (
OR):
I can see a couple of places where citations are essential (again, I'll wait for the rewrite before pointing out where). Also, when giving page numbers use p. X or pp. X-XX
Changing the style of the page numbers is not a problem.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Can you please identify places where you feel extra citations are needed. Thanks.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 21:51, 7 February 2009 (UTC)reply
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
Background has to be reworked: describe as much of his childhood as you can, what did he study at Cambridge? Why was an engineer writing for Country Life?
Unfortunately, the available sources, which are really quite limited, are quite silent on these matters. The article simply states the known facts without adding any speculation.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I will leave judgement on this until the other problems are dealt with, but this may result in the article failing until more sources can be located.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Explain the Lusitania thing more clearly: if the story is erroneous then say so (in fact, the entire bit is better explained in a footnote, as is the explanation about the discrepancies in his given rank).
I thought that the "Lusitania thing" was quite clear. There is no way to know for sure that it is erroneous, although, as explained in some detail, it probably is. The discrepancies in rank might do well in footnote, but it is so common in references to WHL that I thought it worth explaining with some prominance.
It's not clear at all. It seems a relatively simple thing (historically speaking) to establish whether or not Livens was married before 1915 and whether his wife actually died on the Lusitania. This is not a small problem: the death of his wife in such circumstances must have had a major effect on him if true and yet this effect is not described. If false, then where on earth did such a rumour come from? You also introduce it by saying that his wife may have died on the Lusitania but have not previously mentioned that he was married.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
OK. I hope that I have made that episode clearer.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 21:51, 7 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Sorry to come to this late, but my understanding is that the date of the marriage is not the point. The story as I heard it was that she was his fiancee when Livens thought she was on the Lusitania; accordingly, the date of the marriage has no bearing on Livens' desire to kill Germans.
Iain1917 (
talk) 07:27, 7 October 2010 (UTC)reply
More about his family.
More about the 20 years after World War II
Again, the source material simply is not available.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
Quite a bit of
WP:PEACOCK material, although this is probably the result of the poor writing than a deliberate attempt at bias.
Oh dear! Can you indicate an example please?
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
On a second look, it seems that I was overly harsh in my judgement on this issue: the "peacock" terms were either less biased on a second reading or backed up by sources. Sorry.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
It is stable.
It contains
images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have
fair use rationales):
Overall:
a Pass/Fail:
Other comments
Molotov cocktail was not a term in use in 1916 for obvious reasons: its use here is an anachronism.
Possibly it is anachronistic, but it is the term used in the source.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
If its from a source then use it in a quote, otherwise it is an anachronism.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I have re-written that paragraph to avoid reference to molotov cocktail.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 21:53, 7 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Your wikilinks are all over the place: link a proper noun or technical term the first time it appears only.
It really does not seem over-linked to me. Can you give some examples?
Gaius Cornelius (
talk)
Overlinking is not the problem, the problem is the way you have linked things. For example, the
Battle of the Somme should be linked as soon as you start talking about it
"the cost of killing Germans could be reduced to sixteen shillings each." - what does this mean?
I suppose that I should not take it for granted that the reader knows what a shilling is. I'll fix that.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I know what a shilling is, what I don't know is what the quote means: how would Livens' invention make it cheaper to kill Germans? This is what I mean above about a lack of context.
Give the citation for his military cross, in sequence and in context, so its clear why he was awarded it.
There are no citations published, but I will add some explanatory text.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 23:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Sorry, I was thinking of the official citation, normally published in the
London Gazette (as in
John Brunt). It appears however that Livens' citation wasn't published (at least not there) so disregard this for now.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I'm sorry, but since it appears that there is no more information forthcoming on his life, particularly for the period after World War II, I cannot pass this article at this time. Thankyou for your work on the article so far and good luck in the future. If you feel this desicion is in anyway unfair, please feel free to appeal at
WP:GAR.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 18:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I do appreciate being prodded into improving the article. However, the reviewer has taken no interest in the article's improvement and has dismissed it on unreasonable grounds. The article is a fair summary of the published information about WHL; as happens to so many people, his life outside his profession is obscure and not a matter of public record - and it probably never will be. There is no reason to believe that WHL’s private life is of special interest and even if it was this should not stop his biography from achieving Good Article status – see footnote three of
Wikipedia:Good article criteria. If this cannot be resolved here, I will appeal the decision.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 17:19, 16 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Actually I did take an interest in the article's improvement: I made a list of required improvements above, some of which were implemented and some of which were not. The article then went for five days without any improvement (and no notification from the nominator that they were unavailable at this time). I therefore concluded that these improvements were not going to be made, as indeed they still have not. I suggest that you take this to GAR for an appeal, because I am not going to pass the article in its current state. At GAR I will explain exactly why I failed the article and hopefully a wider consensus can bring improvements that will help the article reach GA standard. I mean (and meant) no offence in my review and appreciate the already substantial improvements made to the article since the review process began. Regards--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 18:07, 16 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Jackyd101: Firstly, I am sure that I must seem ungrateful for your time and efforts, and ungracious in my protestations; that is not what I intend and I thank you for your trouble. I must admit that I got too tied up in the business of collecting facts to the neglect of the writing and you are absolutely right to point out such deficiencies. I realise that the article needs more work and I expect that to take a little time. However, I hope you will understand my distressed at the idea that no matter what I do, the article cannot be "Good" if it does not contain certain details that are not available from verifiable sources. Given that this point necessarily applies to all articles, do you think that the general point be discussed in
Wikipedia talk:Good article criteria instead of this particular instance at GAR? Thanks.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 13:27, 17 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I see no reason why not and would be happy to participate in such a discussion. I would also like to point you to the GA review on the talk page of
John Capper, an article I worked on and which was failed for exactly the reason this article has not passed at this time: such is the required standard. However, further discussion on this would be valuable.--
Jackyd101 (
talk) 18:04, 17 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I will start off the discussion soon.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 09:11, 19 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Ref: Banks, Sir Donald, Flame over Britain: A Personal Narrative of Petroleum Warfare, Sampson Low Marston, London 1946
Best wishes (
Msrasnw (
talk) 13:45, 12 April 2011 (UTC))reply
Yes, it should be 1946 - well spotted! There is a bit of a problem with that book in that it does not have the publication date printed in it. However, it is generally agreed to have been written in 1946.
Gaius Cornelius (
talk) 17:03, 12 April 2011 (UTC)reply
1911 census
Records that WHL was at the Drayton Court Hotel, West Ealing in London on the day of the Census. He recorded his occupation as medical student and his birthplace as Lincoln. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
86.136.64.239 (
talk •
contribs) 15:58, 23 November 2014 (UTC)reply
Source for September 15th 1915 letter?
In the World War I section, there appear to be several typos in the "Letter written by Livens' from the trenches September 15th 1915 To his sister Mary" (examples: "line)paid" instead of "line) paid", "address is .. Kentish Town" instead of "address is... Kentish Town", "will be ready soon _ I have spent" instead of "will be ready soon - I have spent").
In order to determine which typos were in the original (surely he didn't use an underscore where a dash should be!) I looked for a source and could not find one online. does anyone have a source for this letter? --
Dalek Supreme X (
talk) 14:11, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply