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To: Whom it concerns I just visited this page to find that it had been vandalized by redirecting it to a site which is most unsuitable for minors... please correct this.
William Cohen, a well documented denier of the Armenian Genocide stood in front of TV cameras at the National Press Club in Washington on November 13th, 2007 to declare that he with Madeleine Albright are co-chairing a new "Genocide Prevention Task Force." As soon as the two former high-ranking officials finished delivering their opening remarks at the press conference, skeptical members of the press and activists questioned their sincerity and pointed out their hypocrisy. This exchange was covered extensively by CNN, AFP, AP, The Jerusalem Post, Huffington Post.
This doesn't seem very fair (pointing out hypocrisy, accusing him of being a Holocaust denier). Seems a bit harsh for an encyclopedia. I don't know how to do anything on this though, so I just thought maybe this would bring it to someone's attention —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.204.191.184 ( talk) 03:09, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Why is this unfair? Mr. Cohen has repeated aided and abated Turkey's campaign of denial of the Armenian Genocide. As for the Holocaust, I not familiar with any denial of that on his part. This needs to be in the open and not something that is stashed away in the talk pages in order to whitewash Cohen's reputation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.12.203.98 ( talk) 21:10, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Whoever linked Cohen's quote to the article on "total war" - very clever. I changed it to the more appropriate "Conscription in the United States," although I appreciate the effort you are putting into vandalism (as much as I personally agree with your sentiment).
I've just finished a book review of his latest, "Love in Black and White." He makes it clear that though he is ethnically Jewish, he is not a practicing Jew. (The info below about him being denied a bar mitzvah is correct. It was very hurtful to him at the time, as he was top of his class in Hebrew school.) He gives no hint of being a Unitarian. From what I gather about him, he'd probably reply to this question by asking, "Why is it important?" Editunited 16:40, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
As far as I know, Secretary Cohen is not Jewish, either by ethicity or faith. Can anyone find solid evidence to confirm or disprove? — thames 18:49, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
it's a well known jewish name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.3.8.253 ( talk) 18:48, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
What are they? One would think he's somewhat of a moderate. -- BDD 00:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
My best guess is that William Cohen is indeed a Unitarian Universalist (UU) as am I. I recall he had an article in UU World magazine. The thing that makes UU's different from more orthodox religions is that they have evolved beyond a historical beleif in one God and Universal Salvation. Instead of demanding a theological belief UU's agree to adhere to a set of seven principles. A look at www.UUA.com and The Seven Principles may give an insight into the political beliefs of Mr. Cohen. Grandma's Kid
Why was he in the ROTC for only a day? I believe this needs further explanation... It is both unusual and worthy of mention, especially because he was Secretary of the Defense. Stevenmitchell 14:29, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
What is the logic behind having a clearly aged photograph of William Cohen from his DOD days, instead of an updated one that also symbolizes what Cohen's life is doing now--and not his past? These pages are supposed to be kept current; not as paens to past glories. I understand the official photo being the gateway photo when there is none other availble; but there is. The official photo is very dated--I feel it should be replaced with whatever the most current that is available. For anyone. I'm not going to wrestle over it, but there's my two cents. -- DavidShankBone 00:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with the infobox argument. Infoboxes don't distort WP policy to have the most updated and accurate information and imagery in the articles. If the infobox is meant to be a shrine to his tenure at DOD, then it should not be in the lead, but more towards that section of the article. Also, in an e-mail from Janet Langhart, she thanked me for replacing that photo of him. These people have moved on in their lives and pursuing other interests for which they want recognition. I think it's unfair to enshrine him for his time in the pentagon, which is going to on a eight years or so. That's my argument. The lead photo should be the most current one we have available that demonstrates the subject of the article. I respect your point of view and understand why you would think otherwise in relation to an infobox, but that only makes the infobox's location a problem, which is easily rectified. Keep up the great work. Dave -- DavidShankBone 01:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Why do you think a person who serves as Secretary of Defense is on par with the President of United States? Should Paul O'Neill be forever remembered for his year in Washington?
I respect your viewpoint, BCV, but who are you to write their obituary before they die? Who are you to say William Cohen will be most known, forever, as Secretary of Defense? In fact, it was pretty unmemorable (<sigh>...I miss the Clintong years).
For President, I understand because for a moment in time each president *was* the country. But should Henry Kissinger's page forever have his 1970's govt photo? Look, I'm going to let you decide this issue and back out, b/c I just don't care. But I want to point out two arguments: 1. You have decided before a person dies that they will most be remembered for what you have deemed for yourself; 2. Even if you are self-appointed "Ultimate Judge" of that persons accomplishments and achievements, forever comparing them against what you, yourself, feel was their crowning glory, how does that make Wikipedia accurate? How does your opinion alone build consensus? Why should you answer logicial and valid questions with inapt comparisons b/w the US President and the Defense Secretary as if they are equal. Do you feel Tony Blair and David Omand are of apt comparison? You can look at other pages, but remember most of those photographs are the only ones available. Frankly, I would prefer to have an updated Robert McNamara photo.
Seriously, I respect your point of view and understand it. But I personally like the idea of Wikipedia as a communal repository of knowledge. You are doing that BCV, but unlike Encyclopedia Britttanica, we want to be relevant. We don't want to tell William Cohen, "you will never be more than you were at this moment." Possibly he is more proud of his writing than he is of his DOD role. I don't know, but what if...? Another example to view is the KISS page. The lead photo is from 2004 because the opening is supposed to be current. After that, it's 70's KISS galore. I get where you're coming from, but I think we need to be more on WP than deciding a person has reached their pinnacle before they have even died. Don't you agree? By the way, I have no opinion of William Cohen - simply took his picture. I just think leads should be most recent. Look at Tommy Chong and you'll see the photo I put up, and the one under it was originally the main. Which would you prefer?-- DavidShankBone 06:14, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
BCV and I are having a months-long dispute as to whether a 10 year old photograph should be used, or a current photograph. I would like other editors to weigh in on whether they think an old photograph, or a new photograph, should be used as the introductory photograph.
1. William Cohen is currently writing fiction, and he no longer resembles the photograph from his Defense Secretary days in the 1990s.
2. An encyclopedia is only as useful as it is updated. The introductory photograph should be the most updated photograph available. Available - just because other Defense Secretaries don't have updated photographs doesn't mean they aren't merited - it means Caspar Weinberger hadn't done anything photo-worthy, and that a person who did take a photograph doesn't think to upload it to Wikipedia.
3. BCV is deciding his Secretary of Defense days are the most important, when perhaps his TWENTY years in the Senate (as opposed to FOUR in the Pentagon) or his new career as a fiction writer are more fruitful, important, or have more affect on people.
I'd be interested for other editors besides myself and BCV to weigh in with whether an encyclopedia should have an outdated photograph instead of one of a citizen who continues to thrive in new career directions. What would YOU want if you were William Cohen? Having heard from his wife Janet Langhart, I know the answer. And if I was William Cohen, like him, I would not want an outdated photograph. -- DavidShankBone 15:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
It might be noted that Cohen was inside the U.S. Holocaust museum within earshot of the 2009 U.S. Holocaust Museum shooting. I don't have a citation for it, but he's giving an interview on CNN. RandomCritic ( talk) 20:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
How come? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.12.91.242 ( talk) 12:22, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
non jewish mom — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.3.8.253 ( talk) 18:49, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
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It does seem to be a meme on the internet that William Cohen was the first Republican to serve as Secretary of Defense under a Democratic president. But, the purveyors of that meme have forgotten Robert McNamara, and Robert Lovett. Its true that McNamara changed to the Democratic party late in the 1970s, but he was a solid Republican when he served John F. Kennedy. And, Lovett served Harry Truman.
Also, there were Republican Secretaries of War and the Navy under Democrats, for instance Franklin Delano Roosevelt, before the creation of the Department of Defense.
Therefore, I see the current statement in the article about whether Cohen was the first or second such Republican Secretary of Defense serving a Democratic president as being a trivial and unnecessary detail.
So, in hope of forestalling an edit war that can actually be supported on both sides by reliable sources (both of which are just wrong, in this case), I am deleting that detail. Shortsword ( talk) 20:00, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
William Cohen article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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To: Whom it concerns I just visited this page to find that it had been vandalized by redirecting it to a site which is most unsuitable for minors... please correct this.
William Cohen, a well documented denier of the Armenian Genocide stood in front of TV cameras at the National Press Club in Washington on November 13th, 2007 to declare that he with Madeleine Albright are co-chairing a new "Genocide Prevention Task Force." As soon as the two former high-ranking officials finished delivering their opening remarks at the press conference, skeptical members of the press and activists questioned their sincerity and pointed out their hypocrisy. This exchange was covered extensively by CNN, AFP, AP, The Jerusalem Post, Huffington Post.
This doesn't seem very fair (pointing out hypocrisy, accusing him of being a Holocaust denier). Seems a bit harsh for an encyclopedia. I don't know how to do anything on this though, so I just thought maybe this would bring it to someone's attention —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.204.191.184 ( talk) 03:09, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Why is this unfair? Mr. Cohen has repeated aided and abated Turkey's campaign of denial of the Armenian Genocide. As for the Holocaust, I not familiar with any denial of that on his part. This needs to be in the open and not something that is stashed away in the talk pages in order to whitewash Cohen's reputation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.12.203.98 ( talk) 21:10, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Whoever linked Cohen's quote to the article on "total war" - very clever. I changed it to the more appropriate "Conscription in the United States," although I appreciate the effort you are putting into vandalism (as much as I personally agree with your sentiment).
I've just finished a book review of his latest, "Love in Black and White." He makes it clear that though he is ethnically Jewish, he is not a practicing Jew. (The info below about him being denied a bar mitzvah is correct. It was very hurtful to him at the time, as he was top of his class in Hebrew school.) He gives no hint of being a Unitarian. From what I gather about him, he'd probably reply to this question by asking, "Why is it important?" Editunited 16:40, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
As far as I know, Secretary Cohen is not Jewish, either by ethicity or faith. Can anyone find solid evidence to confirm or disprove? — thames 18:49, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
it's a well known jewish name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.3.8.253 ( talk) 18:48, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
What are they? One would think he's somewhat of a moderate. -- BDD 00:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
My best guess is that William Cohen is indeed a Unitarian Universalist (UU) as am I. I recall he had an article in UU World magazine. The thing that makes UU's different from more orthodox religions is that they have evolved beyond a historical beleif in one God and Universal Salvation. Instead of demanding a theological belief UU's agree to adhere to a set of seven principles. A look at www.UUA.com and The Seven Principles may give an insight into the political beliefs of Mr. Cohen. Grandma's Kid
Why was he in the ROTC for only a day? I believe this needs further explanation... It is both unusual and worthy of mention, especially because he was Secretary of the Defense. Stevenmitchell 14:29, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
What is the logic behind having a clearly aged photograph of William Cohen from his DOD days, instead of an updated one that also symbolizes what Cohen's life is doing now--and not his past? These pages are supposed to be kept current; not as paens to past glories. I understand the official photo being the gateway photo when there is none other availble; but there is. The official photo is very dated--I feel it should be replaced with whatever the most current that is available. For anyone. I'm not going to wrestle over it, but there's my two cents. -- DavidShankBone 00:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with the infobox argument. Infoboxes don't distort WP policy to have the most updated and accurate information and imagery in the articles. If the infobox is meant to be a shrine to his tenure at DOD, then it should not be in the lead, but more towards that section of the article. Also, in an e-mail from Janet Langhart, she thanked me for replacing that photo of him. These people have moved on in their lives and pursuing other interests for which they want recognition. I think it's unfair to enshrine him for his time in the pentagon, which is going to on a eight years or so. That's my argument. The lead photo should be the most current one we have available that demonstrates the subject of the article. I respect your point of view and understand why you would think otherwise in relation to an infobox, but that only makes the infobox's location a problem, which is easily rectified. Keep up the great work. Dave -- DavidShankBone 01:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Why do you think a person who serves as Secretary of Defense is on par with the President of United States? Should Paul O'Neill be forever remembered for his year in Washington?
I respect your viewpoint, BCV, but who are you to write their obituary before they die? Who are you to say William Cohen will be most known, forever, as Secretary of Defense? In fact, it was pretty unmemorable (<sigh>...I miss the Clintong years).
For President, I understand because for a moment in time each president *was* the country. But should Henry Kissinger's page forever have his 1970's govt photo? Look, I'm going to let you decide this issue and back out, b/c I just don't care. But I want to point out two arguments: 1. You have decided before a person dies that they will most be remembered for what you have deemed for yourself; 2. Even if you are self-appointed "Ultimate Judge" of that persons accomplishments and achievements, forever comparing them against what you, yourself, feel was their crowning glory, how does that make Wikipedia accurate? How does your opinion alone build consensus? Why should you answer logicial and valid questions with inapt comparisons b/w the US President and the Defense Secretary as if they are equal. Do you feel Tony Blair and David Omand are of apt comparison? You can look at other pages, but remember most of those photographs are the only ones available. Frankly, I would prefer to have an updated Robert McNamara photo.
Seriously, I respect your point of view and understand it. But I personally like the idea of Wikipedia as a communal repository of knowledge. You are doing that BCV, but unlike Encyclopedia Britttanica, we want to be relevant. We don't want to tell William Cohen, "you will never be more than you were at this moment." Possibly he is more proud of his writing than he is of his DOD role. I don't know, but what if...? Another example to view is the KISS page. The lead photo is from 2004 because the opening is supposed to be current. After that, it's 70's KISS galore. I get where you're coming from, but I think we need to be more on WP than deciding a person has reached their pinnacle before they have even died. Don't you agree? By the way, I have no opinion of William Cohen - simply took his picture. I just think leads should be most recent. Look at Tommy Chong and you'll see the photo I put up, and the one under it was originally the main. Which would you prefer?-- DavidShankBone 06:14, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
BCV and I are having a months-long dispute as to whether a 10 year old photograph should be used, or a current photograph. I would like other editors to weigh in on whether they think an old photograph, or a new photograph, should be used as the introductory photograph.
1. William Cohen is currently writing fiction, and he no longer resembles the photograph from his Defense Secretary days in the 1990s.
2. An encyclopedia is only as useful as it is updated. The introductory photograph should be the most updated photograph available. Available - just because other Defense Secretaries don't have updated photographs doesn't mean they aren't merited - it means Caspar Weinberger hadn't done anything photo-worthy, and that a person who did take a photograph doesn't think to upload it to Wikipedia.
3. BCV is deciding his Secretary of Defense days are the most important, when perhaps his TWENTY years in the Senate (as opposed to FOUR in the Pentagon) or his new career as a fiction writer are more fruitful, important, or have more affect on people.
I'd be interested for other editors besides myself and BCV to weigh in with whether an encyclopedia should have an outdated photograph instead of one of a citizen who continues to thrive in new career directions. What would YOU want if you were William Cohen? Having heard from his wife Janet Langhart, I know the answer. And if I was William Cohen, like him, I would not want an outdated photograph. -- DavidShankBone 15:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
It might be noted that Cohen was inside the U.S. Holocaust museum within earshot of the 2009 U.S. Holocaust Museum shooting. I don't have a citation for it, but he's giving an interview on CNN. RandomCritic ( talk) 20:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
How come? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.12.91.242 ( talk) 12:22, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
non jewish mom — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.3.8.253 ( talk) 18:49, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
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It does seem to be a meme on the internet that William Cohen was the first Republican to serve as Secretary of Defense under a Democratic president. But, the purveyors of that meme have forgotten Robert McNamara, and Robert Lovett. Its true that McNamara changed to the Democratic party late in the 1970s, but he was a solid Republican when he served John F. Kennedy. And, Lovett served Harry Truman.
Also, there were Republican Secretaries of War and the Navy under Democrats, for instance Franklin Delano Roosevelt, before the creation of the Department of Defense.
Therefore, I see the current statement in the article about whether Cohen was the first or second such Republican Secretary of Defense serving a Democratic president as being a trivial and unnecessary detail.
So, in hope of forestalling an edit war that can actually be supported on both sides by reliable sources (both of which are just wrong, in this case), I am deleting that detail. Shortsword ( talk) 20:00, 5 June 2022 (UTC)