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A recent edit inserted "European" in the statement "Humboldt is credited with being the first European linguist to identify human language as a rule-governed system." Just the first European linguist? Who is the non-European who beat him to it? -- Wetman 23:39, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Pāṇini. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 4 July 2005 15:49 (UTC)
AFAIK European linguists up to Humboldt's time hadn't heard of Pāṇini, so no, they didn't identify human language as a rule-governed system. As I understand it, Humboldt came up with the idea on his own, and only later did European linguists figure out that Pāṇini had beaten him to it by a couple of millennia. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 4 July 2005 22:09 (UTC)
Actually Alexander (and Wilhelm) von Humboldt did not carry the title Freiherr. They used this name for themselves but the family got the title from the emperor Wilhelm I. not before 1875. Before 1806 the title had to come from the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire and there is no record of this. It is also not reasonable that a Habsburgian emperor (at that time) may have given the title to a Prussian. Christian Jaeh ( talk) 18:51, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
The German version of this article is rather more advanced... --- Charles Stewart 18:44, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
"This idea is one of the foundations of Noam Chomsky's theory of language." I find it difficult to understand why Humboldt should be valued by the fact that Chomsky reffered to his ideas. This implies that Chomsky has a much more important role in linguistics than he really does. His paradigm has been surpassed; by Integralism, for example.
The point is that Humboldt's impact on linguistics should not be assessed via Chomsky. It should either be objective, or, if refferences must be made, they should be to all paradigms Humboldt influenced.
I couldnt find almost anything from Humboldt himself on the web. I´ve searched google and archive.org . Anyone could help me?
Why does it say German, when every other person who has a article born in this age from the provinces of the Kingdom of Prussia says Prussian. There were no German nationality back then. He was a Prussian diplomat and even a Prussian minister, but not German. comment added by Wis ( talk • contribs) 09:57, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
See the note above in the "mentioned by a media organization" template. Thought I might leave this note here as well. I'm not familiar with the subject, so I won't endeavor to resolve the issue. Leonxlin ( talk) 03:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
The phrase 'Friend of Danilo Stojanovic' appears to be an orphan phrase, disconnected from the preceding text and from the subsequent text. And our article on Danilo Stojanovic seems to be unrelated to Wilhelm von Humboldt. Should the phrase be removed? IjonTichyIjonTichy ( talk) 19:04, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
I think the article can be improved on the important topic of "The Divide between the Universities and the Political System" that has numerous significant implications. Given his work The Sphere and Duties of Government (The Limits of State Action) (1854 ed.) [1792] and the SEP of Stanford, http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wilhelm-humboldt/#HumAppAntPolAes , second paragraph. Cheers! 109.189.211.11 ( talk) 08:05, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
The paragraph beginning "In the original text from which this section has been lifted without attribution..." explaining the reference system used in this section is hardly appropriate to the section. A hyperlink in each reference to the original in the References should be sufficient, or a note in the references at the bottom of the page is more appropriate, removing the author's irritable "from which this section has been lifted without attribution." Very well, thanks for adding attribution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluespapa ( talk • contribs) 02:02, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
There are two paragraphs lionizing someone called "Underhill" as a scholar carrying on Von Humbolt's work. Whenever I see two paragraphs about a scholar I don't know in a Wikipedia article about another scholar or topic, I begin to suspect that the scholar or his students have been editing. Someone might want to look into that. 126.27.11.108 ( talk) 23:50, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
There seems to be no Western grammars of this language even today. So how did he do it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.26.246.149 ( talk) 18:18, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
It is incorrect to translate Bildung with education, the special meaning of this concept gets lost in the translation. The concept of Bildung has a long philosophical history and is opposed to the concept of Erziehung (which is a direct translation of education). At least the fragment "Theorie der Bildung des Menschen," should therefore be translated like the actual translation as "Theory of Bildung" ( http://blogs.ubc.ca/nfriesen/files/2015/01/Humboldt-on-Bildung.pdf)
here the Translator's Note: "ln preparing for the present translation, two main problems were identified for which no comfortable solution could be found. These were the term Bildung itself and the question of inclusive language. As noted several times in this volume, although the word Bildung is conventionally translated as "education," this is not an adequate translation; it does not cover the connotations the word has in German. As in the rest of this volume, we have chosen to leave the term in German in order to avoid inappropriate connotations. (...)"
You can translate Bildungssystem with educational system but especially in the context of Humboldt or philosophical theory the translation is incorrect and the German word should be used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:908:5B9:B5E0:BD9E:9639:720F:6680 ( talk) 15:38, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
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The current text states "elected a member of the American Antiquarian Society in 1820", yet the reference states he was elected on 10/23/1816. I propose updating the text to 1816 unless there is an overriding reason for using 1820. - DutchTreat ( talk) 11:18, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
I suggest that we remove {{ cleanup HTML}} from Feb 2019. I don't see any <cite> tags in use by the current version of the article. - DutchTreat ( talk) 11:27, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
In the Biography section. I propose adding Alexander von Humboldt (1769 – 1859) as Wilhelm's brother. - DutchTreat ( talk) 11:23, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
This is the
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Wilhelm von Humboldt article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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A recent edit inserted "European" in the statement "Humboldt is credited with being the first European linguist to identify human language as a rule-governed system." Just the first European linguist? Who is the non-European who beat him to it? -- Wetman 23:39, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Pāṇini. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 4 July 2005 15:49 (UTC)
AFAIK European linguists up to Humboldt's time hadn't heard of Pāṇini, so no, they didn't identify human language as a rule-governed system. As I understand it, Humboldt came up with the idea on his own, and only later did European linguists figure out that Pāṇini had beaten him to it by a couple of millennia. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 4 July 2005 22:09 (UTC)
Actually Alexander (and Wilhelm) von Humboldt did not carry the title Freiherr. They used this name for themselves but the family got the title from the emperor Wilhelm I. not before 1875. Before 1806 the title had to come from the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire and there is no record of this. It is also not reasonable that a Habsburgian emperor (at that time) may have given the title to a Prussian. Christian Jaeh ( talk) 18:51, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
The German version of this article is rather more advanced... --- Charles Stewart 18:44, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
"This idea is one of the foundations of Noam Chomsky's theory of language." I find it difficult to understand why Humboldt should be valued by the fact that Chomsky reffered to his ideas. This implies that Chomsky has a much more important role in linguistics than he really does. His paradigm has been surpassed; by Integralism, for example.
The point is that Humboldt's impact on linguistics should not be assessed via Chomsky. It should either be objective, or, if refferences must be made, they should be to all paradigms Humboldt influenced.
I couldnt find almost anything from Humboldt himself on the web. I´ve searched google and archive.org . Anyone could help me?
Why does it say German, when every other person who has a article born in this age from the provinces of the Kingdom of Prussia says Prussian. There were no German nationality back then. He was a Prussian diplomat and even a Prussian minister, but not German. comment added by Wis ( talk • contribs) 09:57, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
See the note above in the "mentioned by a media organization" template. Thought I might leave this note here as well. I'm not familiar with the subject, so I won't endeavor to resolve the issue. Leonxlin ( talk) 03:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
The phrase 'Friend of Danilo Stojanovic' appears to be an orphan phrase, disconnected from the preceding text and from the subsequent text. And our article on Danilo Stojanovic seems to be unrelated to Wilhelm von Humboldt. Should the phrase be removed? IjonTichyIjonTichy ( talk) 19:04, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
I think the article can be improved on the important topic of "The Divide between the Universities and the Political System" that has numerous significant implications. Given his work The Sphere and Duties of Government (The Limits of State Action) (1854 ed.) [1792] and the SEP of Stanford, http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wilhelm-humboldt/#HumAppAntPolAes , second paragraph. Cheers! 109.189.211.11 ( talk) 08:05, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
The paragraph beginning "In the original text from which this section has been lifted without attribution..." explaining the reference system used in this section is hardly appropriate to the section. A hyperlink in each reference to the original in the References should be sufficient, or a note in the references at the bottom of the page is more appropriate, removing the author's irritable "from which this section has been lifted without attribution." Very well, thanks for adding attribution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluespapa ( talk • contribs) 02:02, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
There are two paragraphs lionizing someone called "Underhill" as a scholar carrying on Von Humbolt's work. Whenever I see two paragraphs about a scholar I don't know in a Wikipedia article about another scholar or topic, I begin to suspect that the scholar or his students have been editing. Someone might want to look into that. 126.27.11.108 ( talk) 23:50, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
There seems to be no Western grammars of this language even today. So how did he do it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.26.246.149 ( talk) 18:18, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
It is incorrect to translate Bildung with education, the special meaning of this concept gets lost in the translation. The concept of Bildung has a long philosophical history and is opposed to the concept of Erziehung (which is a direct translation of education). At least the fragment "Theorie der Bildung des Menschen," should therefore be translated like the actual translation as "Theory of Bildung" ( http://blogs.ubc.ca/nfriesen/files/2015/01/Humboldt-on-Bildung.pdf)
here the Translator's Note: "ln preparing for the present translation, two main problems were identified for which no comfortable solution could be found. These were the term Bildung itself and the question of inclusive language. As noted several times in this volume, although the word Bildung is conventionally translated as "education," this is not an adequate translation; it does not cover the connotations the word has in German. As in the rest of this volume, we have chosen to leave the term in German in order to avoid inappropriate connotations. (...)"
You can translate Bildungssystem with educational system but especially in the context of Humboldt or philosophical theory the translation is incorrect and the German word should be used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:908:5B9:B5E0:BD9E:9639:720F:6680 ( talk) 15:38, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Wilhelm von Humboldt. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:55, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
The current text states "elected a member of the American Antiquarian Society in 1820", yet the reference states he was elected on 10/23/1816. I propose updating the text to 1816 unless there is an overriding reason for using 1820. - DutchTreat ( talk) 11:18, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
I suggest that we remove {{ cleanup HTML}} from Feb 2019. I don't see any <cite> tags in use by the current version of the article. - DutchTreat ( talk) 11:27, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
In the Biography section. I propose adding Alexander von Humboldt (1769 – 1859) as Wilhelm's brother. - DutchTreat ( talk) 11:23, 6 November 2020 (UTC)