![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 17 February 2009. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
The way Wilhelm's name is currently written in Japanese, the romanji and pronunciation would be: "Viruherumu". The two dashes (I do not recall what they are called) after the "U" character shift the pronunciation to a "V" sound. This needs to be corrected. 26 August 2007
This Article was originally placed here, Wilhelm, untill Axezz did a terrible job of "moving" this article and making the old page a disambiguation. The history of this article up to 26/04/2005 is still located on the Wilhelm page. -- Revolver Ocelot 23:22, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This article was first created by Revolver Ocelot, and contributed to by Walton Simons, JarlaxleArtemis, and Ahalsall before the page got moved. -- Revolver Ocelot 23:22, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The second to last paragraph in Wilhelm's entry of Episode III's in-game database:
It is unsure whether the current cycle is the tenth recurrence, or even the hundredth, but the distortions created by the repetition gradually changed people's consciousness. Ultimately, mankind rejected his power, choosing to progress to the future by their own will.
— Galaeron Nihmedu 02:25, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
While his methods differed from Shion's, Wilhelm undoubtedly sought to save the world just the same. Or perhaps what he truly wanted was a revolution in mankind's consciousness, brought about by the cyclical recurrence of time.
That he succeeded in his plan to force the evolution of the consciousness of mankind was confirmed in the Official Complete Guide. The Eternal Recurrence was just a means to an end. PhoenixStrike 02:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
At the end of this article, it is written:
"Conceivably, this notion would provide an explanation for a speculative "alternate universe" connection between the universes of Xenogears and Xenosaga; each story following different incarnations of especially willful characters who "resonate purely with Anima", within different cycles of Zarathustra (albeit spaced approximately ten thousand years apart from one another). But this connection is still confusing and potentially misleading, as the events of Xenogears are labeled "Episode V" and Xenosaga spans Episodes one through three, with the Infinite Recurrence of Zarathustra presumably being rejected at the end of Episode three."
I don't think that needs to be here. It's speculation at best, and probably very far from the series creator's intent. Tcaudilllg 16:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I dispute the "original research" heading. The others are fine and valid. (aside from the "notability" question; he is notable because he is an intended instance of the Neitzschen Ubermensche) I will say though, that the article needs sources. We have many now that the official companion materials are (mostly) translated to English. Tcaudilllg 22:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Removed. The Xenogears/Xenosaga link was removed, and none of the rest of the article is clearly original research. Some of the other accusations seem irrelevant to me, also. Instead of lurking in the shadows, let the people who leveled these accusations show their respective faces in the open. Tcaudilllg 23:29, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Image:Wilhelm.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 11:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
If Seph is notable, then so is Wilhelm. This game is a cult classic and in time Wilhelm will probably be about as notable as any other major RPG protagonist. The only reason the game isnt' popular is because it's artistic. I'm taking off the notability tag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tcaudilllg ( talk • contribs) 23:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I believe this article has been restored to an acceptable state, given the information we now have. I'm leaving the copy edit tag and taking off the fiction-guideline tag. May submit for review, too. Tcaudilllg 23:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
There seems to be little citations in this article and it would definately be an improvement. I might go and mark a couple of notations that could use a reference, but pretty much anything that has the word fan in it should be cited. I might help contribute to the article, but I haven't decided yet. If not, best luck to you all Zemalia 21:24, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Okay, bit out of hand much? Anyways, I see a lot of references to the 'ultimate xenosaga guide' and what not, but no citations from it. Is it a book or an online resource? If its a book, that would be a great addition to citing and referencing. As for online sites, there are only a few that are considered to be reliable by project video games, and I think in order to up the status of this article, we should stick to their terms. I'm off to find a book about Xenosaga! ^.~ Zemalia 00:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Wilhelm's stature and mystique has inspired many allusions between himself and historical themes.( weasel words and lacking citation. Allusions are something that is implied, not infered, so they cannot be "inspired" in the reader) Partially owing to the strong parallels illustrated by the series' creators between the world of Xenosaga and actual history, many fans (again with the weasel words) believe Wilhelm to be a symbol for real life religious and mythological concepts. A leading comparison is to that of the Demiurge of the Gnostic religion, who is said to be the creator and "caretaker" of the physical domain ( WP:SYNTH). Demiurge is portrayed as antagonistic to the will of the Supreme Creator, just like Wilhelm is antagonistic to U-DO's will. He also tried to entrap elements of the divine in the physical world, much like Wilhelm tries to seal away the "eyes of God", Abel and Abel's Ark, in order to have his way with the world. (Rationale attempting to justify previous synthesis. Writing is attempting to make a thesis and justify it, original research) Also, Demiurge employed agents called Archons, powerful beings that acted on Demiurge's will. (More synthesis rationale)Demiurge's Archons can be comparable to Wilhelm's Testaments.(More synthesis rationale)
-- Oni Ookami Alfador Talk|[[Special:Emailuser/Oni Ookami Alfador|@]] 01:35, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
The attacks need to stop. As it stands so far, the edits and attempts to reference the article look like they are going well. Please stop the personal attacking, and remember: no one owns pages, they are a collaboration between many different parties. Zemalia ( talk) 18:11, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
i keep reading people saying "the unknown messiah figure".
i am sure that they weren't trying to hide anything or make it a mystery of who it was it's Jesus —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.106.33.33 ( talk) 02:31, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 17 February 2009. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
The way Wilhelm's name is currently written in Japanese, the romanji and pronunciation would be: "Viruherumu". The two dashes (I do not recall what they are called) after the "U" character shift the pronunciation to a "V" sound. This needs to be corrected. 26 August 2007
This Article was originally placed here, Wilhelm, untill Axezz did a terrible job of "moving" this article and making the old page a disambiguation. The history of this article up to 26/04/2005 is still located on the Wilhelm page. -- Revolver Ocelot 23:22, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This article was first created by Revolver Ocelot, and contributed to by Walton Simons, JarlaxleArtemis, and Ahalsall before the page got moved. -- Revolver Ocelot 23:22, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The second to last paragraph in Wilhelm's entry of Episode III's in-game database:
It is unsure whether the current cycle is the tenth recurrence, or even the hundredth, but the distortions created by the repetition gradually changed people's consciousness. Ultimately, mankind rejected his power, choosing to progress to the future by their own will.
— Galaeron Nihmedu 02:25, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
While his methods differed from Shion's, Wilhelm undoubtedly sought to save the world just the same. Or perhaps what he truly wanted was a revolution in mankind's consciousness, brought about by the cyclical recurrence of time.
That he succeeded in his plan to force the evolution of the consciousness of mankind was confirmed in the Official Complete Guide. The Eternal Recurrence was just a means to an end. PhoenixStrike 02:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
At the end of this article, it is written:
"Conceivably, this notion would provide an explanation for a speculative "alternate universe" connection between the universes of Xenogears and Xenosaga; each story following different incarnations of especially willful characters who "resonate purely with Anima", within different cycles of Zarathustra (albeit spaced approximately ten thousand years apart from one another). But this connection is still confusing and potentially misleading, as the events of Xenogears are labeled "Episode V" and Xenosaga spans Episodes one through three, with the Infinite Recurrence of Zarathustra presumably being rejected at the end of Episode three."
I don't think that needs to be here. It's speculation at best, and probably very far from the series creator's intent. Tcaudilllg 16:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I dispute the "original research" heading. The others are fine and valid. (aside from the "notability" question; he is notable because he is an intended instance of the Neitzschen Ubermensche) I will say though, that the article needs sources. We have many now that the official companion materials are (mostly) translated to English. Tcaudilllg 22:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Removed. The Xenogears/Xenosaga link was removed, and none of the rest of the article is clearly original research. Some of the other accusations seem irrelevant to me, also. Instead of lurking in the shadows, let the people who leveled these accusations show their respective faces in the open. Tcaudilllg 23:29, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Image:Wilhelm.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 11:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
If Seph is notable, then so is Wilhelm. This game is a cult classic and in time Wilhelm will probably be about as notable as any other major RPG protagonist. The only reason the game isnt' popular is because it's artistic. I'm taking off the notability tag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tcaudilllg ( talk • contribs) 23:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I believe this article has been restored to an acceptable state, given the information we now have. I'm leaving the copy edit tag and taking off the fiction-guideline tag. May submit for review, too. Tcaudilllg 23:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
There seems to be little citations in this article and it would definately be an improvement. I might go and mark a couple of notations that could use a reference, but pretty much anything that has the word fan in it should be cited. I might help contribute to the article, but I haven't decided yet. If not, best luck to you all Zemalia 21:24, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Okay, bit out of hand much? Anyways, I see a lot of references to the 'ultimate xenosaga guide' and what not, but no citations from it. Is it a book or an online resource? If its a book, that would be a great addition to citing and referencing. As for online sites, there are only a few that are considered to be reliable by project video games, and I think in order to up the status of this article, we should stick to their terms. I'm off to find a book about Xenosaga! ^.~ Zemalia 00:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Wilhelm's stature and mystique has inspired many allusions between himself and historical themes.( weasel words and lacking citation. Allusions are something that is implied, not infered, so they cannot be "inspired" in the reader) Partially owing to the strong parallels illustrated by the series' creators between the world of Xenosaga and actual history, many fans (again with the weasel words) believe Wilhelm to be a symbol for real life religious and mythological concepts. A leading comparison is to that of the Demiurge of the Gnostic religion, who is said to be the creator and "caretaker" of the physical domain ( WP:SYNTH). Demiurge is portrayed as antagonistic to the will of the Supreme Creator, just like Wilhelm is antagonistic to U-DO's will. He also tried to entrap elements of the divine in the physical world, much like Wilhelm tries to seal away the "eyes of God", Abel and Abel's Ark, in order to have his way with the world. (Rationale attempting to justify previous synthesis. Writing is attempting to make a thesis and justify it, original research) Also, Demiurge employed agents called Archons, powerful beings that acted on Demiurge's will. (More synthesis rationale)Demiurge's Archons can be comparable to Wilhelm's Testaments.(More synthesis rationale)
-- Oni Ookami Alfador Talk|[[Special:Emailuser/Oni Ookami Alfador|@]] 01:35, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
The attacks need to stop. As it stands so far, the edits and attempts to reference the article look like they are going well. Please stop the personal attacking, and remember: no one owns pages, they are a collaboration between many different parties. Zemalia ( talk) 18:11, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
i keep reading people saying "the unknown messiah figure".
i am sure that they weren't trying to hide anything or make it a mystery of who it was it's Jesus —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.106.33.33 ( talk) 02:31, 27 February 2008 (UTC)