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I heard that Wigan was called Coccium by the Romans because of the red clay found in the area (example: the red brook in Haigh Hall grounds), perhaps that could be added if it is correct? Starsailor are from Chorley, but were formed at Wigan Tech, too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.155.230.194 ( talk • contribs) 22:28, 22 January 2005.
Starsailor was NOT formed in Wigan college at all. They formed at St.Michaels High School, in Chorley.
HOWEVER, THE CLAIM THAT MARKS AND SPENCER WAS FOUNDED IN WIGAN IS TOTALLY UNFOUNDED. THE RETAIL COMPANY WAS ACTUALLY FOUNDED IN MANCHESTER, NOT WIGAN, THE SECOND STORE WAS THEN OPENED IN LEEDS. THIS CAN BE CONFIRMED BY READING THE COMPANY HISTORY, SOME OF WHICH IS SHOWN ON MARKS AND SPENCER WEBSITE AS ' OUR HISTORY '. IN WHICH THERE IS NO MENTION OF WIGAN. originally posted by User:84.43.40.112 to article instead of talk page FreplySpang (talk) 6 July 2005 23:52 (UTC)
The population figure of 300000 is for the Metroplitan Borough not the town which is much smaller. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.248.225.148 ( talk • contribs) 13:09, 17 October 2005.
Patak's is not based in Wigan but is based in Leigh (see Patak's office locations. Jhaselden 14:37, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
The point about Lancastrians is reinstated, by a local who knows what he is writing about. This is an inportant point about local culture. The Local Government Act 1972 abolished previous existing local government structures, and created a two-tier system of counties and districts. Some of the new counties were designated Metropolitan Counties, containing Metropolitan Boroughs. Although the Metropolitan County Councils were abolished in 1986, the Metropolitan County of Greater Manchester, containing Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, remains – although Wigan residents also regard themselves as Lancastrians. The link to Local Government Act 1972 adequately covers the technical point about 1986, without interrupting the flow of the point(s) being made. Skull 'n' Femurs 00:05, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
Government Statement. .......
"The new county boundaries are solely for the purpose of defining areas of ... local government. They are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change." Source:(DoE Statement, 1st April 1974). ....... (ABCounties)
The 'Duchy of Lancaster' still considers the historic boundaries of Lancashire to be in place.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs) .
WHAT ABOUT RICHARD ASHCROFT OF THE VERVE? JOE LYDON? SEAN EDWARDS? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.6.129.141 ( talk • contribs) 16:41, 5 February 2006.
The majority of people born in Wigan were born in Billinge Hospital (Like Richard Ashcroft), how the hell can Ashcroft be described as not from Wigan?. If that is the case the majority of people in the town must also not be from Wigan.
So, if he was born in Billinge Hospital, he must be from Billinge then, NOT Wigan. Most people from St.Helens area were also born in Billinge Hospital, after all, it was the maternity hospital covering the area, not only Wigan. Small town minds strike again! (he's actually from Skelmersdale).
If a dog is born in a stable, is it a horse?
... That's what it say's on the list. Ashcroft was neither born, or brought up, in Wigan. I know of no 'significant' connections with Wigan either, as all the claims about Wigan and The Verve are untrue. He even 'dislikes' being regarded as coming from Wigan, he's even said so in interviews and regards it as myth and rumour.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs) .
AS: Right – you wanted it to be special because it was your homecoming show. McCabe: Well, not really…none of us are actually from Wigan. AS: Verve have always been known as a Wigan band? McCabe: Well, it's another one of those myths, isn't it? unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187
"AS: Right ? you wanted it to be special because it was your homecoming show. McCabe: Well, not really?none of us are actually from Wigan. AS: Verve have always been known as a Wigan band? McCabe: Well, it's another one of those myths, isn't it? I guess there's some truth to it because the band was formed in Wigan. But no one was born there. We all met in college there."
82.33.171.111 00:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
As McCabe has already said ... Well, not really…'none of us are actually from Wigan'.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs) .
Congratulations to the above person (80.192.242.187) for deliberately missing out important information on that quote. Looking at your own talk history I get the impression you have something against Wigan. The full quote is here:-
"AS: Right ? you wanted it to be special because it was your homecoming show. McCabe: Well, not really?none of us are actually from Wigan. AS: Verve have always been known as a Wigan band? McCabe: Well, it's another one of those myths, isn't it? I guess there's some truth to it because the band was formed in Wigan. But no one was born there. We all met in college there."
Link: http://www.excellentonline.com/article.php3?story_id=786
PROOF that they formed in Wigan and therefore have Wigan connections. Those words come from Mccabes own mouth.
Now seeing as we are using quotes from the internet, lets go to The Verves OFFICIAL site. On the front page it clearly states the words:-
"The Verve, from Wigan were formed in 1990"
Link:- http://www.theverve.co.uk/
This is the OFFICIAL site front main page don’t forget. If you also visit the biography page on this official site then you get the following words:-
"The Verve, from Wigan in Lancashire"
Link:- http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?biography=1
Also on the The Verves official site Richard Ashcroft tells us when he rented a flat in Wigan:-
“When we signed a deal, we got a stash of money. I rented a flat in Wigan and in that flat we just had the most ridiculously indulgent, decadent six months”
Link: http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?q_e_id=IV010
In another part of this website, they have a few quotes from journalists who reviewed their albums, one of the quotes is:-
"A selection of echoed-out acoustic versions and firing US remixes from the Wigan weirdos"
Link: http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?q_e_id=R009
Now surely if this band hated Wigan and wanted nothing to do with Wigan then they would not even want the word Wigan quoted on their own website.
Richard Ashcroft, Simon Jones and Peter Salisbury met at Upholland High School
Address:- Upholland High School, Sandbrook Road, WIGAN
Link: http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/reports/119/119751.pdf
They then met Nick Mcabe and formed the band at Winstanley College
Address:- Winstanley College, Winstanley Rd, Billinge, WIGAN
Link: http://www.axcis.co.uk/47925.html
As for the argument futher up this page about Billinge Hospital, the full address of this place is (or more accurately I should say “was” is it no longer exists)
Adress:- Billinge Hospital Upholland Rd, Billinge, WIGAN
Link: http://www.192.com/directory.cfm/WIGAN/HOSPITAL/XB844094CA4A242C0B1B028F24A050FB7
Right, I have quoted links from “the verves” official site but everyone knows that they no longer exist, meaning that site won’t be updated very often, so lets now move on to Richard Ashcroft’s official site as he is now having success as a solo artist.
On the biography page of Richard Ashcroft’s OFFICIAL site, the following quote is mentioned:-
“Verve, a psychedelic rock band he'd formed with three mates at Winstanley College in Wigan”
also mentioned on the same page is the following quote:-
“Ashcroft watched with immense pleasure as his hometown club Wigan Athletic, with whom he played as a junior, have risen to Premiership prominence”
link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/aboutBiography.php
Also on Richard Ashcrofts official site is a section of media press cuttings that have been kept, showing past interviews with Richard and articles on his success.
I will show a few links of these articles along with quotes mentioning Wigan
1. Daily Mail - 20th Jan 06
“Since then, the 34-year-old from Wigan has flattered to deceive"
link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/DailyMail20jan06.jpg
2. Glamour Magazine - March 06
“Though the band, who met at college in their hometown of Wigan”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/GlamourMarch06-2.jpg
3. Q magazine – Feb 06
“Born 11th September in Billinge, Wigan”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-4.jpg
“In 1998 the verve played a huge show in their hometown, Wigan”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-5.jpg
“there’s a part of me that wants to pull up outside me school in Wigan”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-6.jpg
4. Telegraph Magazine – Jan 06
“Growing up in Wigan, Ashcroft was mad for football”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/TelegraphMagazine14jan06-3.jpg
“Before their second gig, supporting a more established Wigan band, Ashcroft declared in the local paper in his first interview, ‘we’re gonna blow ‘em off the stage! This town ain’t big enough for the both of us!’”
“I used to arrive in London sometimes at the record company with no shoes, on the bus from Wigan”
“neglecting to pay the rent on his Wigan flat”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/TelegraphMagazine14jan06-3.jpg
5. Wigan Observer – May 06
“If you’re talking about Wigan as the place that inspired me, it was the people that inspired me, It was the people that I loved”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/WiganObserverMay06-1.jpg
“As a kid from Wigan at the age of 17, I had a dream to play a gig in London”
“The Verve’s 1998 35,000 people extravaganza at Haigh Hall, should have become an annual music fetival which will put Wigan on the world music map. ‘Haigh is a very special place to me’ he said. ‘My Mum used take me for walks in the plantations, hand in hand, magical place. That’s why we chose it in 1998’”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/WiganObserverMay06-2.jpg
If that’s still not enough then you can actually hear richard Ashcroft interviewed on the Chris Moyles (BBC Radio 1 DJ) show podcast. Exactly 21 minutes and 15 seconds into the podcast Richard is talking about playing his first tour of America at Lollapalooza and states the following:-
“playing football with Tibetan monks at the age of 21 from Wigan in places in America that Americans don’t know about”
Link: http://ia301106.us.archive.org/3/items/ChrisMoylesBestof_BestofMoyles_14_07_2006/bestofmoyles_20060714-0700_40_pc.mp3 (This link is a direct download of the podcast)
There are more links I can provide but there is enough evidence here to clearly prove the connections between The Verve, Richard Ashcroft and Wigan.
So from now on please don’t mention that The Verve have nothing to do with Wigan, please don't mention that The Verve are not a Wigan group, please don’t mention that Richard Ashcroft dislikes Wigan and please do not remove Richard Ashcroft from the “notable people” section on the Wikipedia Wigan page.
82.33.171.111 00:24, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
UNTIL THE BAND MEMBERS THEMSELVES PUBLISH A STATEMENT SAYING THAT THEY ARE FROM WIGAN, THE VERVE WILL REMAIN A 'NOT FROM WIGAN' GROUP. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.33.171.111 ( talk • contribs) .
And, while on the subject, if you insist on putting Ashcroft on the list as a Notable Wigan Person, why do you leave out all the other band members, as they played just as important a part as him and they all met at the same place, ie. Winstanley Sixth Form College, in Winstanley, near Wigan, and, like Ashcroft, they are also not from Wigan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs) .
A postal address is not a guide to where somewhere actually is, it is merely the nearest 'post town' where the sorting office is located. The Wigan sorting office covers parts of Lancashire and Merseyside too. Indeed, parts of Wigan Borough are in Warrington, Manchester and Bolton postal areas, but they aren't 'in' any of those places, just like Winstanley, Billinge, Upholland and Skelmersdale are NOT 'in' Wigan. You Plonker!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs) .
Replying to the above answers - I have given quotes from their own official sites stating that they are from Wigan and if you read (and listened to) all the links then you would have heard Richard Ashcroft describing himself as from Wigan. The fact that you still refuse to believe this after all the links I have provided is absolutely comical. It seems that you are on a one man crusade to rewrite history. Richard Ashcroft says he is from Wigan, yet you say he isn't, that's got to be the strangest thing yet????? I suggest you read all the links as you clearly have ignored them all.
I have put Richard Ashcroft on the list as a notable Wigan person and not the others due to him being the lead singer and frontman/spokesperson of the band, he is clearly the most notable person, if people wish to put the other band members on then fine. It's a bit like Billy Boston, Sean Edwards and Andrew Farrel are the only notable rugby players on the list because they are three of the most well known and truly great gifted Wigan players who stand out, yet there have been hundreds more good rugby players from Wigan.
With regards to the paragraphs in capital letters, no need to shout, my hearing is perfectly fine thanks.
As for me being a plonker, Hmmmm, maybe I have been called this once or twice in my life, well at least you have got something right on this Wigan page for a change :D—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.33.171.111 ( talk • contribs) .
82.33.171.111 00:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Regardless of that fact, there is no denying that Richard Ashcroft has Wigan connections, he has lived in Wigan, played his first gig in a Wigan pub, started recording in a Wigan studio, says he comes from Wigan and even performed the verves most famous "homecoming" gig at Wigan (these are just a few things i have cited above, there will be more). Now I know nothing about Richard Ashcrofts upbringing in Skelmersdale, if you could provide links and references like I have with the Wigan connections, it would be much appreciated. Even if you prove this, then it means that Richard Ashcroft deserves a place on the notable people section of the Skelmersdale wikipedia page as well as the Wigan page, hell, he should be having a mention on the Gloucestershire page too because that's were he is living right now. If the people of Gloucestershire decide to this, I won't mind, you won't find me deleting his name from their page because it would be true, he WOULD be connected and in their notable people section.
82.33.171.111 10:12, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
(THE FLAT ABOVE) CO-OP PHARMACY. 56 CHURCH STREET, ORRELL, WIGAN WN5 2TQ
User talk:80.192.242.187
I don't know the Wigan street in which he lived but the proof is in 2 of the above links I quoted previously about him having a flat in Wigan.
Now I will say this, I have proved all facts in previous discussions by providing valid links, most of them from official sites. It is quite clear in these quotes that Richard Ashcroft has a huge and valid connection to Wigan. You have claimed you know of no significant connections and you have also claimed that he dislikes Wigan. I now ask you to provide proof and links for these claims along with proof and links of his upbringing in Skelmersdale which I asked for previously.
82.33.171.111 14:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
However, he has a place in the Notable People on the strength of the fictitious myth, believed by many, that he has Wigan connections. After all, only Wigan would be daft enough to name 'Wallace and Grommit' as being 'famous Wiganers' when they are merely fictitional cartoon characters. (from near Preston).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).
The same 'connected people' are saying he is from Wigan, it's you who keep saying he's not.
As for Wallace and Gromit, they ARE from Wigan and thoroughly deserve a mention in the notable people section. I thought you had a sense of humour? and it's Nick Park the creator who is from Preston not Wallace and Gromit themselves. who knows? they may even visit Yates's chippy in the next episode!!
82.33.171.111 22:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
QUESTION: WHERE DID RICHARD ASHCROFT & THE VERVE DO THEIR "HOMECOMING GIG" ?
ANSWER: HAIGH HALL, WIGAN.
I'M SICK OF HEARING BITTER YOKELS FROM PLACES LIKE WEST LANCS MOANING ABOUT WHERE THE VERVE WENT TO SCHOOL & ONE OF THEM LIVING IN SKUMSDALE FOR A BIT (SIMON TONG, THE 5TH MEMBER LIVED IN SKEM... AND HE ONLY PLAYED ON ONE ALBUM - THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY NOT SCOUSERS LISTEN TO THEIR WIGAN ACCENTS).
MEASURING HOW FAR THEIR PARENTS HOUSES ACTUALLY WERE FROM WIGAN TOWN CENTRE BY THE INCH FROM SOME SMALL TIME LOCAL COUNCIL BORDER (WEST LANCS - AGAIN!!!) IS A DESPERATE GRAB FOR ATTENTION BY YOKELS WHO ARE TRYING TO CREATE SOME KIND OF IDENTITY FOR THEIR OWN NO-MARK FARMER VILLAGE.
ASHCROFT ALWAYS PRAISES WIGAN IN INTERVIEWS AND OPENLY TALKS ABOUT BEING FROM WIGAN ALL OF THE TIME. (SEARCH THE NME WEBSITE FOR HIS INTERVIEWS IF YOU THINK I'M WRONG.)
I'M FROM WIGAN BUT I WAS ACTUALLY BORN IN BILLINGE HOSPITAL BACK IN 1975 AND SO WERE 95% OF THE PEOPLE AT MY SCHOOLS IN WIGAN (PROBABLY BECAUSE WIGAN INFIRMARY DIDN'T HAVE A MATERNITY WARD BACK THEN IN THE 70S WHEN MYSELF & MR ASHCROFT WERE BORN).
ACCORDING TO SOME OF THESE DUMB ASS STATEMENTS, WIGAN CONSISTS ONLY OF THE TOWN CENTRE, SPRINGFIELD & SWINLEY. SINCE WHEN HAS HINDLEY NOT BEEN IN WIGAN ? THEY HAVE ONE OF THE STRONGEST WIGAN ACCENTS IN WIGAN ?
MR W. IGANER, WIGAN (NEAR BILLINGE).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.33.132.236 ( talk • contribs).
And, Mr. Dumb Ass W.Iganer, I see you have had to post in 'BIG WRITING' so that other Dunb Ass Wiganers can read it too. Wigan has signposts, in 'Big Writing' to let you Wiganers know when you are actually 'in' Wigan. As for Ashcroft, HE IS FROM SKELMERSDALE. (so you can read it, lad) and if he thinks otherwise he's a joey. McCabe is from St.Helens. Ashcroft has a scouse twang, as does McCabe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).
THE BIG WRITING IS FOR MORONS LIKE YOU WHO SEEM TO BE STRUGGLING TO ACCEPT THE FACTS. I'LL DRAW YOU A PICTURE IF IT HELPS ?
IF SOMEONES FAMILY IS FROM ST HELENS (OR WIGAN) BUT THEY ARE DRIVEN TO A HOSPITAL IN BILLINGE FOR A FEW HOURS TO BE DELIVERED AT BIRTH, THEN THEY GROW UP IN ST HELENS (OR WIGAN) THEN THEY ARE FROM ST HELENS (OR WIGAN) BUT BORN IN A BILLINGE HOSPITAL... ITS REALLY NOT DIFFICULT SO PLEASE TRY AND KEEP UP EH "LAD" ? (it's not difficult to see that Skelmersdale is not Wigan).
TO BE HONEST I COULDN'T GIVE A TOSS WHAT YOKELS LIKE YOU WANT TO TELL YOURSELVES. ASHCROFTS FAMILY WHERE FROM WIGAN AND IF YOU READ ASHCROFTS INTERVIEWS HE'LL TELL YOU WHERE HE'S FROM HIMSELF (W - I - G - A - N !!!) IF YOU CAN'T ACCEPT THAT THEN ITS YOUR PROBLEM.
P.S GEORGE FORMBY IS FROM LEIGH (NOT WIGAN.. NEXT YOU'LL BE TELLING ME THAT SKELMSDALE (OR SKUMSDALE AS ITS KNOWN IN WIGAN) IS IN LIVERPOOL ?
81.77.129.35
Take it easy matey, they guy you are arguing with is actually an Ashtonian with a prejudice against Wigan and Wiganers, don't stoop to his level by slagging off Skelmersdale and try to keep civilized (I know it may be difficult because the guy you are arguing with is acting like an idiot) but we don't want this discussion forum locked by an admin.
Getting back to what our friend 'Mr 80.192.242.187' said in the following quote:-
"After asking a couple of 'connected' people, I can confirm that, as far as they know, the nearest place to Wigan that Richard Ashcroft has ever lived is Orrell (near to the station in the village). He went there from Skelmersdale. Wigan may be the 'nearest town', but neither place is 'in' Wigan"
The connected people he asked are from the richard ashcroft forum (no they're not. I know people who were brought up with McCabe and have mixed with the group. I personally know where McCabe grew up, and went to the same school. He's from St.Helens Borough, but not St.Helens, and had a Warrington postcode. (wiganers, don't think too hard about that one).
The actual discussion is here:-
http://forums.richardashcroft.com/viewtopic.php?t=2461
Mr 80.192.242.187 is Jemmy and the only person to mention that Richard Ashcroft is from Skelmersdale is himself, people have replied with the fact that he grew up in upholland in Wigan. Upholland is NOT is Skelmersdale. Reading the thread further they are saying he is from Wigan.
Quite frankly this guy has vandalised the Wigan page many times now and has received warnings, it's about time he was banned because his attitude stinks and it is quite clear that he is annoying other people too.
82.33.171.111 12:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
OK FAIR ENOUGH, I DIDN'T REALISE HE WAS THE RESIDENT D1CKHEAD...
Quote (JEMMY): "If you can prove that Ashcroft has lived in Wigan, by giving me the name of the Wigan Street in which he lived, I'll concede defeat that he should be on the list!"
THE ADDRESS OF THE PHARMACY BELOW RICHARDS FLAT: "CO-OP PHARMACY. 56 CHURCH STREET, ORRELL, WIGAN WN5 2TQ" AND HERE IS THE OFFICIAL ADDRESS OF WINSTANLEY COLLEGE WHERE THE VERVE MET: "WINSTANLEY COLLEGE, WINSTANLEY ROAD, BILLINGE, WIGAN. LANCASHIRE. WN5 7XF."
RICHARD ASHCROFT INTERVIEW http://www.wigantoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=3779&ArticleID=1481893 "Before that my mum bought my first guitar from where John Lennon got his first guitar. She got the train to Liverpool. In Wigan at the time there just wasn't a decent guitar shop. So she bought me a guitar at the age of 17."
"If there's one thing about Wigan culturally – even though at the time we were quite starved, and if it wasn't for Alan's Records and the like which were pivotal to the music scene there would have been no outlet – it's that it is in the centre of the north west."
"What Wigan was lacking was people in charge who would invest," he says, sounding ready for a fight.
"When I look back on my school, UpHolland High, I try to explain to people from different parts of the country, what kind of hybrid situation was going on, who the people were.It was an eco-system for the north west. "You had people from Billinge who talked a certain way, people from Orrell, Standish, Wigan, people from Skelmersdale who talked more Scouse than people from Liverpool. They talked a real potent language."
LIKE I KEEP SAYING... READ RICHARD ASHCROFTS INTERVIEWS AND HE'LL TELL YOU IDIOTS WHERE HE'S FROM. ARE YOU ARGUING WITH THE MAN HIMSELF NOW ? F*CKIN YOKEL RETARDOS....
END OF DISCUSSION !!!
So Pemberton is just "nearer to Wigan" and not IN Wigan either now is it ? ha ha ha !
That one comment just proves your ignorance. Have you ever even been to Pem (as the locals call it) or Wigan ?
The 1st Verve single "All In The Mind" - 1992 - Front Cover, Mesnes Park, Wigan. Is that close enough to the shops & the town centre for you ? Is it just a coincidence that they chose Wigan park ? Why not pick the fields/parks of Up-Holland or Skem ?
And by the way, "Wigan (which starts at the river douglas, wigan side of newtown)." Does it really ? So who put that "WIGAN" sign in Orrell just before you get to the KFC in Pem ? Not only is history getting re-written on this webpage but now you're having a go at Geography as well. Mind you places like Skem, Ashton/Bryn and Leigh have already re-written maths and think that 2 + 2 = 6 (and they can count that on one hand !!) ;-)
I think you'll find the signpost for Wigan is exactly where I said it was. As you come off the M58/M6 it's BEFORE (Remember this now, not AFTER, but BEFORE the KFC (Which is in Pem). Go up there and have a look ? How can you argue against this ? Its there in the ground... white with WIGAN in black letters on it ? jesus, I drive past it every day to work. If it was signposted just to say that you're not far from Wigan it would say "Pemberton" then "Wigan - 2miles" or something like that... but it doesn't, does it ? It says Wigan (not the met borough of wigan but WIGAN). And thats because Pemberton is in Wigan my friend. This is getting quite funny now... First I'm asked for Richard Ashcrofts Wigan address which I post on here. Then I'm told just because a 'postal address' says 'Wigan' it doesn't mean its Wigan. Now I'm being told that just because a sign says Wigan it doesn't mean its Wigan.
Come on then, entertain me... what else isn't Wigan ? 01942 ? Maybe things have changed slightly since "1894" and you need to keep up son.
PS .... If you get me to go and look at the sign near KFC, in Pem., that says Wigan, you will be showing me proof that Orrell isn't in Wigan after all, won't you, seeing as the sign is marking the border of Wigan 'County Borough' (as was, which included Pemberton)(not Wigan, because Wigan starts at the Duggie)
PPS ... George Formby is from Wigan. Be happy with what you've got!
George Formby is from Leigh which everyone agrees isn't in Wigan ? Make your mind up...!
Richard Ashcroft was born in Billinge (which you say isn't Wigan) and he lived in Orrell (which again, you say isn't Wigan) and the band met at Winstanley college (which yet again, you say isn't in Wigan) All complete rubbish... the fact is that The Verve practiced and developed their sound in Wigan practice rooms (Pepper Mill - WIGAN CENTRE), they started their career by playing all over Wigan (the mill/wigan pier etc WIGAN CENTRE), their homecoming gig was in Wigan (haigh Hall - 2 ENTRANCES IN WIGAN 1 ENTRANCE IN HAIGH), their first single All In The Mind has a cover sleeve of the band sat in Wigan Park. Ashcroft himself says he's from Wigan. But yeah, the 1894 blah blah blah says blah blah blah so you must be right.
I can't be arsed arguing the point anymore, think what you want... I don't care! The only reason I posted on here is so that people who live outside of Wigan don't get misled by idiots like you.
Richard Ashcroft says he's from Wigan and you say he's not. End of !
I tried to get a train home to wigan the other night but apparently the place doesn't exist. I ended up somewhere called: OrrellpembertonstandishscholeswhelleyinceHindleyWinstanleyhighfieldbeechhillswinleywhitleynewspringsKittgreenmarshgreennewtownandafewothersmallplaces..
Also, the 1984 blah, blah, blah, you refer to, doesn't mention Richard Ashcroft. So, new evidence says that The Verve 'practiced and developed their sound in Wigan practice rooms (Pepper Mill - WIGAN', fair comment (if it's true), however, no matter what you say, or the press says, or Richard Ashcroft says, none of the band members come from Wigan.
In other words you're saying that I'm wrong, The Press is wrong, EVEN Richard Ashcroft himself is wrong but you are right.
Sounds like bollox to me but fair enough if thats what you want to think. It is true that the verve started off in Wigan because I've been in bands that have practiced and recorded at these places myself and over the years I've spoken to other people from bands who were there at the time in the next rooms to the verve. I also know people who knew him from the pier (including a guy who used to sell Ashcroft weed in there). The fact that you say (if its true) as if i'd make this up just shows your unwillingness to accept facts so theres no point me arguing with you about this. I think I've made my point now so go ahead and have the last word like a little girl but i'm happy to leave it at that now. Goodbye loser !
1) Richard Ashcroft doesn't know where he's from. 2) The press don't know where he's from. 3) Post codes mean nothing. 4) Signs on roads with place names on them mean nothing. 5) Orrell & Pemberton are not in Wigan even though there's a sign saying "Wigan" (Not "Wigan Borough", not "near Wigan" but "Wigan" - you're most comical remark so far)
Something is only 'FACT' when there is significant evidence to back it up. You have no argument. There's enough evidence on here to prove that you are wrong yet you continue to say "No he's not" like a 5yr old. Wheres YOUR evidence to back up what you say.
From what you have said it sounds like you're not even from Wigan yet you'll come on here arguing over and over again about this point. You're obviously just somone with a grudge against the place with nothing better to do than hide behind your PC trying to wind people up. FACT.
How is the name "Wigan" pronounced? For better or worse, as an American, I really don't have much of a clue about British place names... I suppose it cuts both ways. Maybe articles on geographical topics can include a pronunciation guide as a matter of course. Regards, 207.174.201.18 03:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
can anyone provide a reference for the pool being too short? It has a real air of Urban myth about it. I have heard this story myself but frankly I doubt it. If no-one can come up with a reference I'll delete it soon. Of course it may have failed to meet IOC criteria for all sort of other reasons.-- NHSavage 07:28, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Why doesn't this article mention their fondness for pies? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.135.66.126 ( talk • contribs) 09:23, 17 September 2006.
POOR EDUCATION ??? 2 PEOPLE FROM MY SCHOOL YEAR ARE NOW DOCTORS, 1 RAF PILOT, SEVERAL IT CONSULTANTS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON. FOR SOMEONE FROM SOMEWHERE AS BACKWARD AS LEIGH TO SAY THAT IS JUST COMICAL. YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT ONE THING THOUGH "LEIGH IS NOT PART OF WIGAN" - I AGREE 100%, YOU CAN KEEP IT MATE !!!
This edit introduced the following errors:
Why not read a much better merged article at Metropolitan Borough of Wigan Gosh it even has some references! ;-) Generic Character 23:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Is it the metropolitan borough that is twinned rather than the town? MRSC • Talk 10:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Ask any Wiganer, 'Name the French town which is twinned with Wigan'?, and they won't have a clue. That, in itself, shows the actual worth of 'twinning'.
The point about the ONS and the Wigan Urban area should be left with the aras described as 'suburbs'. The majority of people who work in the town centre live in these areas and commute into the town centre for work. These areas are not seen as seperate towns/villages. Trafford in Manchester is seen as a suburb of Manchester not a seperate place (example). I live in Wigan so am trying to give the perspective as seen by thoses who live in the the area. When asked by someone 'where do you live' you say 'Wigan', not Ince, Orrell, Standish etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Man2 ( talk • contribs)
(from
User_talk:Man2)
We need a local expert, who can be TRUSTED to give the facts and not His or Her POV. this is turning out to be urgently needed as i have had to have a revert war with an unsigned user about facts in this article. Can someone oblige please! Random articles 22:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Suburbs of Wigan are as follows : Swinley - Springfield - Beech Hill - Standish Lower Ground - Haigh - Whelley - Scholes - Poolstock. Pemberton is an adjacent town to Wigan, but is now connected. Other towns, some close, others not so close, to Wigan are as follows : Ince - Hindley - Standish - Ashton in Makerfield - Golborne - Leigh - Atherton - Tyldesley, each of these small towns also have their suburbs. The Borough was formed and Wigan (one of the towns in the borough) gave it's name to that borough. However, each individual town/village, some historical, others relatively new, was not stripped of it's name, they all still exist. The fact that administrative control has been taken over by one large authority should not detract from their identities. Those of you in America, obviously a very large country, who care to look at Wigan and surrounding towns on Google Satellite you will notice the clear outline of each town and it's adjoining 'suburbs'.
I'm moving this text here from the main article because it really interrupted the flow of the article and probably doesn't belong in the heading.
Government Statement. .......
"The new county boundaries are solely for the purpose of defining areas of ... local government. They are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change." Source:(DoE Statement, 1st April 1974). ....... (ABCounties) -- Wafulz 02:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe the point regarding Wigan as a part of the Liverpool Diocese should be include, (maybe in the civic history section). The 'true' distance of Wigan from Manchester is 18 miles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.129.35 ( talk • contribs)
Saying "historically in the Diocese of Liverpool" is problematic: because the Diocese of Liverpool was only formed in 1880: prior to then it had been part of the Diocese of Chester. The language used is strange as well: is "Head Parish" Anglican jargon? Because I can't find any evidence of that. Anyway, why should we give one particular religion's hierachy prominence? Morwen - Talk 09:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
This article is having the same edits added/removed/readded and so on and so forth. I know not who is correct but as this is coming from a large number of anon users, should this article be considered for locking to all but registered users? Regan123 20:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Please can everyone remember to sign their contributions - underneath where you write the edit summary it has a clickable to do it. The discussion is getting difficult to understand as to who is saying what. I have added substitute signatures as best I can.
Also, please don't remove comments from the talk page and don't use words like "Plonker". Always assume good faith.
Thanks, Regan123 23:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Found this on the Wigan MBC website : http://www.wigan.gov.uk/pub/council/25facts/25things-wigan.pdf At the bottom left of page 2 is the follwing:
"Before they split in 1999, Wigan band The Verve became the town’s most famous musical export since George Formby. They were all from the Wigan area and met while at Winstanley College, a sixth form centre on the outskirts of town.. Singer Richard Ashcroft is now pursuing a successful solo career."
This clearly states that the Verve were form Wigan and that Winstanley College is on the 'outskirts' of the town (therefore in Wigan).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.77.129.35 ( talk • contribs).
WISH FM ... the WISH stands for 'WI'gan and 'S't.'H'elens. It's the local radio station for the Wigan and St.Helens area. Based in Orrell Road, Orrell. Not in Wigan or in St.Helens, but kind of 'inbetween'.
Doesn't matter how far away it is, it's still 'inbetween'.
If you took the 'direct route' from St.Helens to Wigan (A571) you wouldn't go through Orrell, but you'd not be far off. Wigan is in between Liverpool and Manchester, but not 'bang in the centre'.
Now, I never said that Orrell was 'close' to St.Helens, did I. I merely said it was 'in between', which it is. And, yes, Pemberton IS between Wigan and St.Helens.
82.33.171.111 22:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
PS. unregistered user 111 requires me to state that Pemberton, which is in between Wigan and St.Helens, is also in between Grimsby and Dublin.
The entire dispute could probably be solved by describing these people as from the Wigan area (or suburbs or whatever). The current flame war on this looks, to an outsider, pretty silly. Guy ( Help!) 12:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
A couple of things:
If anyone has any comments, please leave them below and remember to sign you comment with (~~~~) so that it makes it easier to follow the conversation. Thanks. Regan123 00:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Wigan MBC themselves acknowledge Orrell 'lying to the west of Wigan', clearly separating it from Wigan itself.
http://www.wiganmbc.gov.uk/pub/partnership/township/orrell/index.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).
PS. I rang Arnold to ask his opinion and he just said, "Orrell? ... Fok! ... I'll be back"! So I guess we'd better just ask him when he gets here.
The most common 'accent' amongst the Upholland High School pupils is 'Scouse'. I should know, I've dealt with hundreds of 'em over the years. If they put a load of Wiganers in the African jungle, it would still be 'in' Africa, not Wigan!
Let us simply ensure that the phrase 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan' is included in all the articles making reference to the borough e.g. 'Ince, Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Greater Manchester'(rather than 'Ince, Wigan, Greater Manchester') etc etc. This should easily sort out any misunderstanding's/disagreements. Man2 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Man2 ( talk • contribs) 14:38, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
Arnold Schwarzenegger? Proof plz! 138.243.228.52 02:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Arnold Schwarzenegger stayed for a few nights at Frank Richards house in Wigan, not exactly worthy of putting in the notable people section but definitely worthy of putting in a new section perhaps headed 'Wigan Trivia'. The meaning behind 'Pie Eaters' and an article about 'Wigan Monopoly' could be added in this section too.
82.33.171.111 00:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
It was an easy choice. Wigan is easier to poke fun at than Preston or Bolton and the people are gullible enough to part with their money on such trivia as Monopoly!
Hi Regan, I completely agree that we need to stick to verifiable evidence regarding sources. My mention of my contact with the council was not intended to be used as a citation regarding the Orrell area, as, short of sending all of wikipedia the email my claim cannot be verified. I do feel that the current introduction to the Orrell area does accurately describe the area however, the mention of its status as being in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan (as opposed to the town itself) is included along with its role as a suburb of the town. I feel that the statement: "Orrell is a residential suburb of Wigan in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Greater Manchester, England. is accurate in all of the sentence's component parts. In order to support this it is necessary to break down the sentence and analyse each statement within it, the first statement "Orrell is a residential suburb of Wigan" is accurate, the area is almost exclusively residential, unquestionably it acts as a suburb of the town centre and includes the word 'of' Wigan as opposed to 'in' Wigan. I also feel it uncessary to add "due to the areas proximity to Wigan town centre....it acts as a suburb", as a) an areas proximity to a CBD is a key part of what defines a suburb, therefore the reader will take as given that the area is close to Wigan town centre given the statement 'suburb' in the intro and b) a very similar statement already appears further down the article. The second part of the sentence goes on to say, "in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Greater Manchester", note the significance of the phrase 'in the', this shows that the area is a component part of the Metropolitan Borough, as opposed to a component part of the town centre e.g. Swinley. To promote the idea that the Orrell area has an identity akin to areas such as Leigh (i.e completely separate from Wigan) would be misleading, the accuracy of the articles content has not been compromised by the introduction or any other part of the article. I feel we need to leave the article as it is now, given that all the information is accurate and any further alterations (by either myself or other parties) may again result in the type of disagreement's we are currently embroiled in. To conclude Im sure the encyclopedic accuracy of the articles is foremost in all of our thinking, therefore I believe we should leave the current factually accurate article as it is. Cheers. Man2 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Man2 ( talk • contribs) 14:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
Orrell, if a 'commuter suburb' of Wigan, should also include a 'commuter suburb' of St.Helens. St.Helens, for God's sake, has the world's leading Glass Processing Company sited there and a lot of Orrell residents have worked there for their whole working life ! Clue yourselves up before making comment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).
Also, I disagree with ...'Lying on the western outskirts of Wigan'. My reason is that Orrell does not lie on the outskirts of 'Wigan', it lies on the western outskirts of the 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan'. Indeed, if you view the OS map, you will see that a boundary line runs through Orrell, showing part of Orrell being in West Lancashire, Wigan itself being several miles to the east of the centre of Orrell. Why not inform readers of the article that Orrell consists of more than one part, the main village being Far Moor, which is the active 'centre'.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).
You will see that although the opinon of 'Mr Grundy' regarding the Orrell area is just that, opinion, the debate regarding Orrell's relationship to Wigan was discussed at a public inquiry. I think we need to be careful of 'ranking' opinion within the article. Both Regan123 and the unregisted user disagree with my assessment of Orrell as a suburb, however it is clear from the above that Mr Grundy would support my claim and in town planning terms so too would Mr. Nick Clarke at Wigan MBC. With the greatest of respect to Regan123 I feel that your personal opinion of what determin a suburb is irrelevant as you concede that Wikipedia's own definition of a suburb suppots my claim. I hope we are all able to find consensus eventually. Thanks. Man2
"Orrell is an area and residential suburb in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Greater Manchester, England. Its original name was Orrell-in-Makerfield being part of the historic Makerfield Districts. The area is situated 3 miles to the west of Wigan town centre. Its northen edge surround's junction 26 of the M6 motorway. Orrell and it's neighbouring district of Pemberton are essentialy one continuous residential area. The Orrell area postal code begins with WN5."
I included the phrase 'residential suburb in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan', but ommited the reference to it being a suburb of Wigan (for the benefit of the unregisted user). I simply said it was a suburb but did not make mention of what it was a suburb of. Does anyone object to the above? Thanks. Man2
Seriously, though, the only 'link' between Orrell and Pemberton is the bridge over the motorway M6. Where do you get your 'country lane' idea from? This is fact, ... In Astley, residents have complained that their houses, on one side of a road, have been put in Wigan Borough and their council tax has been increased, to a higher level than their neighbours', because of this. That, in itself, shows that you don't have to go 'down a country lane' in order to cross a border from one place to the next. And you say you live in Orrell? You, then, should be aware of the 'agricultural greenbelt' land that separates Orrell from Pemberton. Anyone disputing this fact, only needs to look at Google Satellite image to see for themselves. Can you explain why Shevington and Standish are regarded as separate villages from Wigan, by the council themselves, as well as the residents, and are not regarded as 'suburbs' of Wigan, even though a much greater number of their residents are Wigan connected than Orrell's residents are?
The reason about Standish and Shevington residents being more 'Wigan' than Orrell's is that Orrell has a large influx of St.Helens, Skelmersdale and Liverpool people, whereas Standish and Shevington have very few. I currently own houses in Loch Street and Cross Street, both in Orrell, although many would argue against it. They are in Lamberhead Green. The 'Land Registry' is the place that tells you where everywhere is, not a local council, the Royal Mail or British Telecom. 80.192.242.187 19:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC) JemmyH.
The point about Wales is totally irrelevent. Orrell includes all of Orrell, not just the places you would only 'like' to be classified as Orrell. Im not sure what I would gain by continuously contributing to this debate if I did not believe the accuracy of my points. Im getting tired of repeatedly trying to get you to understand that the article refers to Orrell, not a selection of Orrell around Church Street or anywhere else. The area in which the Stag is, is Orrell, the area down near the Fishergate is Orrell, the area around the train station is Orrell and the area at the start of Winstanley Road is Orrell. The article concerns Orrell. Will you please stop disputing these facts. Thank you Man2
As you say, 'mate', it's Orrell, not Wigan. If you cannot see the connection of the comparison I tried to give, using Wales and England as examples, you must be quite blind to logical reason. Chester is split by the England/Wales boundary and you can jump from one place to the next. As is, and as you can, Orrell from Pemberton. You are telling me nothing that I don't know, in sheds. I possess title deeds with the boundaries drawn on. The original argument was, Orrell is not 'in' Wigan. It's not a 'suburb' of Wigan either. 80.192.242.187 21:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC) JemmyH.
PS .... Man2, I notice that you have removed the word 'suburb' from the Ince in Makerfield article. Ince, as we both know, is located next to Wigan and is full of residential housing for Wigan people. If you consider Ince 'not' to be a suburb of Wigan, how can you possibly call Orrell 'a suburb of Wigan'? Man2, you are, indeed, a hypocritical scoundrel sir!
80.192.242.187
21:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC) JemmyH.
Now Wikipedia's own definition of a suburb, "Suburbs are inhabited districts located either inside a town or city's outer rim or just outside its official limits (the term varies from country to country), or the outer elements of a conurbation.". Sounds very much like Orrell to me. It goes on to say "The presence of certain elements (whose definition varies amongst urbanists, but usually refers to some basic services and to the territorial contiguity) identifies a suburb as a peripheral populated area with a certain autonomy, where the density of habitation is usually lower than in an inner city area". Again what part of that does not describe Orrell?. The article includes the phrase, "The suburbs and more distinct settlements around a town or city may look towards the urban area for goods, services and employment opportunities".Guess what the Orrell area does that with Wigan.
To conclude Orrell meets the definition of a suburb and does not meet the definition of a village, yet we need to include the word 'village' in the article intro?. I realise this post may appear rather farcical but even by Wikipedia's own defintion Orrell is a residential suburb, not a village. I can ensure Regan that I have no agenda with this (im not sure what having one would help me accomplish) and ive posted this to help clarify that when writing about Orrell we simply cannot just ignore the area at the east of the M6 and talk only of the area at the west. Had the M6 been the physical boundary to the area, conditions for an nontraditional village could well be argued to exist and I would most definitely have supported it. The joining of Orrell to Pemberton unfortunately completely voids any argument about the use of 'village' and I wholeheartedly cannot see how any other definition but suburb can stand. Thank you. Man2
I would like to make a proposal on this list. Unless we know that they were actually brought up or have lived a while in Wigan, then we probably should move them to either the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan article or the appropriate suburb/district/village article. See Stoke-on-Trent for an example. What do people think? Regan123 19:59, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
82.33.171.111 12:47, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
82.33.171.111 00:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
82.33.171.111 15:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
You will see a sign marking the start of 'Wigan Borough' as you enter Pemberton. You will see a sign marking the start of the 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan' when you enter Ashton in Makerfield. Wigan starts at the River Douglas and has done for centuries. You, or any other Wiganer, cannot alter that.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
I heard that Wigan was called Coccium by the Romans because of the red clay found in the area (example: the red brook in Haigh Hall grounds), perhaps that could be added if it is correct? Starsailor are from Chorley, but were formed at Wigan Tech, too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.155.230.194 ( talk • contribs) 22:28, 22 January 2005.
Starsailor was NOT formed in Wigan college at all. They formed at St.Michaels High School, in Chorley.
HOWEVER, THE CLAIM THAT MARKS AND SPENCER WAS FOUNDED IN WIGAN IS TOTALLY UNFOUNDED. THE RETAIL COMPANY WAS ACTUALLY FOUNDED IN MANCHESTER, NOT WIGAN, THE SECOND STORE WAS THEN OPENED IN LEEDS. THIS CAN BE CONFIRMED BY READING THE COMPANY HISTORY, SOME OF WHICH IS SHOWN ON MARKS AND SPENCER WEBSITE AS ' OUR HISTORY '. IN WHICH THERE IS NO MENTION OF WIGAN. originally posted by User:84.43.40.112 to article instead of talk page FreplySpang (talk) 6 July 2005 23:52 (UTC)
The population figure of 300000 is for the Metroplitan Borough not the town which is much smaller. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.248.225.148 ( talk • contribs) 13:09, 17 October 2005.
Patak's is not based in Wigan but is based in Leigh (see Patak's office locations. Jhaselden 14:37, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
The point about Lancastrians is reinstated, by a local who knows what he is writing about. This is an inportant point about local culture. The Local Government Act 1972 abolished previous existing local government structures, and created a two-tier system of counties and districts. Some of the new counties were designated Metropolitan Counties, containing Metropolitan Boroughs. Although the Metropolitan County Councils were abolished in 1986, the Metropolitan County of Greater Manchester, containing Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, remains – although Wigan residents also regard themselves as Lancastrians. The link to Local Government Act 1972 adequately covers the technical point about 1986, without interrupting the flow of the point(s) being made. Skull 'n' Femurs 00:05, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
Government Statement. .......
"The new county boundaries are solely for the purpose of defining areas of ... local government. They are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change." Source:(DoE Statement, 1st April 1974). ....... (ABCounties)
The 'Duchy of Lancaster' still considers the historic boundaries of Lancashire to be in place.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs) .
WHAT ABOUT RICHARD ASHCROFT OF THE VERVE? JOE LYDON? SEAN EDWARDS? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.6.129.141 ( talk • contribs) 16:41, 5 February 2006.
The majority of people born in Wigan were born in Billinge Hospital (Like Richard Ashcroft), how the hell can Ashcroft be described as not from Wigan?. If that is the case the majority of people in the town must also not be from Wigan.
So, if he was born in Billinge Hospital, he must be from Billinge then, NOT Wigan. Most people from St.Helens area were also born in Billinge Hospital, after all, it was the maternity hospital covering the area, not only Wigan. Small town minds strike again! (he's actually from Skelmersdale).
If a dog is born in a stable, is it a horse?
... That's what it say's on the list. Ashcroft was neither born, or brought up, in Wigan. I know of no 'significant' connections with Wigan either, as all the claims about Wigan and The Verve are untrue. He even 'dislikes' being regarded as coming from Wigan, he's even said so in interviews and regards it as myth and rumour.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs) .
AS: Right – you wanted it to be special because it was your homecoming show. McCabe: Well, not really…none of us are actually from Wigan. AS: Verve have always been known as a Wigan band? McCabe: Well, it's another one of those myths, isn't it? unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187
"AS: Right ? you wanted it to be special because it was your homecoming show. McCabe: Well, not really?none of us are actually from Wigan. AS: Verve have always been known as a Wigan band? McCabe: Well, it's another one of those myths, isn't it? I guess there's some truth to it because the band was formed in Wigan. But no one was born there. We all met in college there."
82.33.171.111 00:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
As McCabe has already said ... Well, not really…'none of us are actually from Wigan'.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs) .
Congratulations to the above person (80.192.242.187) for deliberately missing out important information on that quote. Looking at your own talk history I get the impression you have something against Wigan. The full quote is here:-
"AS: Right ? you wanted it to be special because it was your homecoming show. McCabe: Well, not really?none of us are actually from Wigan. AS: Verve have always been known as a Wigan band? McCabe: Well, it's another one of those myths, isn't it? I guess there's some truth to it because the band was formed in Wigan. But no one was born there. We all met in college there."
Link: http://www.excellentonline.com/article.php3?story_id=786
PROOF that they formed in Wigan and therefore have Wigan connections. Those words come from Mccabes own mouth.
Now seeing as we are using quotes from the internet, lets go to The Verves OFFICIAL site. On the front page it clearly states the words:-
"The Verve, from Wigan were formed in 1990"
Link:- http://www.theverve.co.uk/
This is the OFFICIAL site front main page don’t forget. If you also visit the biography page on this official site then you get the following words:-
"The Verve, from Wigan in Lancashire"
Link:- http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?biography=1
Also on the The Verves official site Richard Ashcroft tells us when he rented a flat in Wigan:-
“When we signed a deal, we got a stash of money. I rented a flat in Wigan and in that flat we just had the most ridiculously indulgent, decadent six months”
Link: http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?q_e_id=IV010
In another part of this website, they have a few quotes from journalists who reviewed their albums, one of the quotes is:-
"A selection of echoed-out acoustic versions and firing US remixes from the Wigan weirdos"
Link: http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?q_e_id=R009
Now surely if this band hated Wigan and wanted nothing to do with Wigan then they would not even want the word Wigan quoted on their own website.
Richard Ashcroft, Simon Jones and Peter Salisbury met at Upholland High School
Address:- Upholland High School, Sandbrook Road, WIGAN
Link: http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/reports/119/119751.pdf
They then met Nick Mcabe and formed the band at Winstanley College
Address:- Winstanley College, Winstanley Rd, Billinge, WIGAN
Link: http://www.axcis.co.uk/47925.html
As for the argument futher up this page about Billinge Hospital, the full address of this place is (or more accurately I should say “was” is it no longer exists)
Adress:- Billinge Hospital Upholland Rd, Billinge, WIGAN
Link: http://www.192.com/directory.cfm/WIGAN/HOSPITAL/XB844094CA4A242C0B1B028F24A050FB7
Right, I have quoted links from “the verves” official site but everyone knows that they no longer exist, meaning that site won’t be updated very often, so lets now move on to Richard Ashcroft’s official site as he is now having success as a solo artist.
On the biography page of Richard Ashcroft’s OFFICIAL site, the following quote is mentioned:-
“Verve, a psychedelic rock band he'd formed with three mates at Winstanley College in Wigan”
also mentioned on the same page is the following quote:-
“Ashcroft watched with immense pleasure as his hometown club Wigan Athletic, with whom he played as a junior, have risen to Premiership prominence”
link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/aboutBiography.php
Also on Richard Ashcrofts official site is a section of media press cuttings that have been kept, showing past interviews with Richard and articles on his success.
I will show a few links of these articles along with quotes mentioning Wigan
1. Daily Mail - 20th Jan 06
“Since then, the 34-year-old from Wigan has flattered to deceive"
link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/DailyMail20jan06.jpg
2. Glamour Magazine - March 06
“Though the band, who met at college in their hometown of Wigan”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/GlamourMarch06-2.jpg
3. Q magazine – Feb 06
“Born 11th September in Billinge, Wigan”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-4.jpg
“In 1998 the verve played a huge show in their hometown, Wigan”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-5.jpg
“there’s a part of me that wants to pull up outside me school in Wigan”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-6.jpg
4. Telegraph Magazine – Jan 06
“Growing up in Wigan, Ashcroft was mad for football”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/TelegraphMagazine14jan06-3.jpg
“Before their second gig, supporting a more established Wigan band, Ashcroft declared in the local paper in his first interview, ‘we’re gonna blow ‘em off the stage! This town ain’t big enough for the both of us!’”
“I used to arrive in London sometimes at the record company with no shoes, on the bus from Wigan”
“neglecting to pay the rent on his Wigan flat”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/TelegraphMagazine14jan06-3.jpg
5. Wigan Observer – May 06
“If you’re talking about Wigan as the place that inspired me, it was the people that inspired me, It was the people that I loved”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/WiganObserverMay06-1.jpg
“As a kid from Wigan at the age of 17, I had a dream to play a gig in London”
“The Verve’s 1998 35,000 people extravaganza at Haigh Hall, should have become an annual music fetival which will put Wigan on the world music map. ‘Haigh is a very special place to me’ he said. ‘My Mum used take me for walks in the plantations, hand in hand, magical place. That’s why we chose it in 1998’”
Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/WiganObserverMay06-2.jpg
If that’s still not enough then you can actually hear richard Ashcroft interviewed on the Chris Moyles (BBC Radio 1 DJ) show podcast. Exactly 21 minutes and 15 seconds into the podcast Richard is talking about playing his first tour of America at Lollapalooza and states the following:-
“playing football with Tibetan monks at the age of 21 from Wigan in places in America that Americans don’t know about”
Link: http://ia301106.us.archive.org/3/items/ChrisMoylesBestof_BestofMoyles_14_07_2006/bestofmoyles_20060714-0700_40_pc.mp3 (This link is a direct download of the podcast)
There are more links I can provide but there is enough evidence here to clearly prove the connections between The Verve, Richard Ashcroft and Wigan.
So from now on please don’t mention that The Verve have nothing to do with Wigan, please don't mention that The Verve are not a Wigan group, please don’t mention that Richard Ashcroft dislikes Wigan and please do not remove Richard Ashcroft from the “notable people” section on the Wikipedia Wigan page.
82.33.171.111 00:24, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
UNTIL THE BAND MEMBERS THEMSELVES PUBLISH A STATEMENT SAYING THAT THEY ARE FROM WIGAN, THE VERVE WILL REMAIN A 'NOT FROM WIGAN' GROUP. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.33.171.111 ( talk • contribs) .
And, while on the subject, if you insist on putting Ashcroft on the list as a Notable Wigan Person, why do you leave out all the other band members, as they played just as important a part as him and they all met at the same place, ie. Winstanley Sixth Form College, in Winstanley, near Wigan, and, like Ashcroft, they are also not from Wigan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs) .
A postal address is not a guide to where somewhere actually is, it is merely the nearest 'post town' where the sorting office is located. The Wigan sorting office covers parts of Lancashire and Merseyside too. Indeed, parts of Wigan Borough are in Warrington, Manchester and Bolton postal areas, but they aren't 'in' any of those places, just like Winstanley, Billinge, Upholland and Skelmersdale are NOT 'in' Wigan. You Plonker!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs) .
Replying to the above answers - I have given quotes from their own official sites stating that they are from Wigan and if you read (and listened to) all the links then you would have heard Richard Ashcroft describing himself as from Wigan. The fact that you still refuse to believe this after all the links I have provided is absolutely comical. It seems that you are on a one man crusade to rewrite history. Richard Ashcroft says he is from Wigan, yet you say he isn't, that's got to be the strangest thing yet????? I suggest you read all the links as you clearly have ignored them all.
I have put Richard Ashcroft on the list as a notable Wigan person and not the others due to him being the lead singer and frontman/spokesperson of the band, he is clearly the most notable person, if people wish to put the other band members on then fine. It's a bit like Billy Boston, Sean Edwards and Andrew Farrel are the only notable rugby players on the list because they are three of the most well known and truly great gifted Wigan players who stand out, yet there have been hundreds more good rugby players from Wigan.
With regards to the paragraphs in capital letters, no need to shout, my hearing is perfectly fine thanks.
As for me being a plonker, Hmmmm, maybe I have been called this once or twice in my life, well at least you have got something right on this Wigan page for a change :D—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.33.171.111 ( talk • contribs) .
82.33.171.111 00:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Regardless of that fact, there is no denying that Richard Ashcroft has Wigan connections, he has lived in Wigan, played his first gig in a Wigan pub, started recording in a Wigan studio, says he comes from Wigan and even performed the verves most famous "homecoming" gig at Wigan (these are just a few things i have cited above, there will be more). Now I know nothing about Richard Ashcrofts upbringing in Skelmersdale, if you could provide links and references like I have with the Wigan connections, it would be much appreciated. Even if you prove this, then it means that Richard Ashcroft deserves a place on the notable people section of the Skelmersdale wikipedia page as well as the Wigan page, hell, he should be having a mention on the Gloucestershire page too because that's were he is living right now. If the people of Gloucestershire decide to this, I won't mind, you won't find me deleting his name from their page because it would be true, he WOULD be connected and in their notable people section.
82.33.171.111 10:12, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
(THE FLAT ABOVE) CO-OP PHARMACY. 56 CHURCH STREET, ORRELL, WIGAN WN5 2TQ
User talk:80.192.242.187
I don't know the Wigan street in which he lived but the proof is in 2 of the above links I quoted previously about him having a flat in Wigan.
Now I will say this, I have proved all facts in previous discussions by providing valid links, most of them from official sites. It is quite clear in these quotes that Richard Ashcroft has a huge and valid connection to Wigan. You have claimed you know of no significant connections and you have also claimed that he dislikes Wigan. I now ask you to provide proof and links for these claims along with proof and links of his upbringing in Skelmersdale which I asked for previously.
82.33.171.111 14:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
However, he has a place in the Notable People on the strength of the fictitious myth, believed by many, that he has Wigan connections. After all, only Wigan would be daft enough to name 'Wallace and Grommit' as being 'famous Wiganers' when they are merely fictitional cartoon characters. (from near Preston).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).
The same 'connected people' are saying he is from Wigan, it's you who keep saying he's not.
As for Wallace and Gromit, they ARE from Wigan and thoroughly deserve a mention in the notable people section. I thought you had a sense of humour? and it's Nick Park the creator who is from Preston not Wallace and Gromit themselves. who knows? they may even visit Yates's chippy in the next episode!!
82.33.171.111 22:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
QUESTION: WHERE DID RICHARD ASHCROFT & THE VERVE DO THEIR "HOMECOMING GIG" ?
ANSWER: HAIGH HALL, WIGAN.
I'M SICK OF HEARING BITTER YOKELS FROM PLACES LIKE WEST LANCS MOANING ABOUT WHERE THE VERVE WENT TO SCHOOL & ONE OF THEM LIVING IN SKUMSDALE FOR A BIT (SIMON TONG, THE 5TH MEMBER LIVED IN SKEM... AND HE ONLY PLAYED ON ONE ALBUM - THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY NOT SCOUSERS LISTEN TO THEIR WIGAN ACCENTS).
MEASURING HOW FAR THEIR PARENTS HOUSES ACTUALLY WERE FROM WIGAN TOWN CENTRE BY THE INCH FROM SOME SMALL TIME LOCAL COUNCIL BORDER (WEST LANCS - AGAIN!!!) IS A DESPERATE GRAB FOR ATTENTION BY YOKELS WHO ARE TRYING TO CREATE SOME KIND OF IDENTITY FOR THEIR OWN NO-MARK FARMER VILLAGE.
ASHCROFT ALWAYS PRAISES WIGAN IN INTERVIEWS AND OPENLY TALKS ABOUT BEING FROM WIGAN ALL OF THE TIME. (SEARCH THE NME WEBSITE FOR HIS INTERVIEWS IF YOU THINK I'M WRONG.)
I'M FROM WIGAN BUT I WAS ACTUALLY BORN IN BILLINGE HOSPITAL BACK IN 1975 AND SO WERE 95% OF THE PEOPLE AT MY SCHOOLS IN WIGAN (PROBABLY BECAUSE WIGAN INFIRMARY DIDN'T HAVE A MATERNITY WARD BACK THEN IN THE 70S WHEN MYSELF & MR ASHCROFT WERE BORN).
ACCORDING TO SOME OF THESE DUMB ASS STATEMENTS, WIGAN CONSISTS ONLY OF THE TOWN CENTRE, SPRINGFIELD & SWINLEY. SINCE WHEN HAS HINDLEY NOT BEEN IN WIGAN ? THEY HAVE ONE OF THE STRONGEST WIGAN ACCENTS IN WIGAN ?
MR W. IGANER, WIGAN (NEAR BILLINGE).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.33.132.236 ( talk • contribs).
And, Mr. Dumb Ass W.Iganer, I see you have had to post in 'BIG WRITING' so that other Dunb Ass Wiganers can read it too. Wigan has signposts, in 'Big Writing' to let you Wiganers know when you are actually 'in' Wigan. As for Ashcroft, HE IS FROM SKELMERSDALE. (so you can read it, lad) and if he thinks otherwise he's a joey. McCabe is from St.Helens. Ashcroft has a scouse twang, as does McCabe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).
THE BIG WRITING IS FOR MORONS LIKE YOU WHO SEEM TO BE STRUGGLING TO ACCEPT THE FACTS. I'LL DRAW YOU A PICTURE IF IT HELPS ?
IF SOMEONES FAMILY IS FROM ST HELENS (OR WIGAN) BUT THEY ARE DRIVEN TO A HOSPITAL IN BILLINGE FOR A FEW HOURS TO BE DELIVERED AT BIRTH, THEN THEY GROW UP IN ST HELENS (OR WIGAN) THEN THEY ARE FROM ST HELENS (OR WIGAN) BUT BORN IN A BILLINGE HOSPITAL... ITS REALLY NOT DIFFICULT SO PLEASE TRY AND KEEP UP EH "LAD" ? (it's not difficult to see that Skelmersdale is not Wigan).
TO BE HONEST I COULDN'T GIVE A TOSS WHAT YOKELS LIKE YOU WANT TO TELL YOURSELVES. ASHCROFTS FAMILY WHERE FROM WIGAN AND IF YOU READ ASHCROFTS INTERVIEWS HE'LL TELL YOU WHERE HE'S FROM HIMSELF (W - I - G - A - N !!!) IF YOU CAN'T ACCEPT THAT THEN ITS YOUR PROBLEM.
P.S GEORGE FORMBY IS FROM LEIGH (NOT WIGAN.. NEXT YOU'LL BE TELLING ME THAT SKELMSDALE (OR SKUMSDALE AS ITS KNOWN IN WIGAN) IS IN LIVERPOOL ?
81.77.129.35
Take it easy matey, they guy you are arguing with is actually an Ashtonian with a prejudice against Wigan and Wiganers, don't stoop to his level by slagging off Skelmersdale and try to keep civilized (I know it may be difficult because the guy you are arguing with is acting like an idiot) but we don't want this discussion forum locked by an admin.
Getting back to what our friend 'Mr 80.192.242.187' said in the following quote:-
"After asking a couple of 'connected' people, I can confirm that, as far as they know, the nearest place to Wigan that Richard Ashcroft has ever lived is Orrell (near to the station in the village). He went there from Skelmersdale. Wigan may be the 'nearest town', but neither place is 'in' Wigan"
The connected people he asked are from the richard ashcroft forum (no they're not. I know people who were brought up with McCabe and have mixed with the group. I personally know where McCabe grew up, and went to the same school. He's from St.Helens Borough, but not St.Helens, and had a Warrington postcode. (wiganers, don't think too hard about that one).
The actual discussion is here:-
http://forums.richardashcroft.com/viewtopic.php?t=2461
Mr 80.192.242.187 is Jemmy and the only person to mention that Richard Ashcroft is from Skelmersdale is himself, people have replied with the fact that he grew up in upholland in Wigan. Upholland is NOT is Skelmersdale. Reading the thread further they are saying he is from Wigan.
Quite frankly this guy has vandalised the Wigan page many times now and has received warnings, it's about time he was banned because his attitude stinks and it is quite clear that he is annoying other people too.
82.33.171.111 12:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
OK FAIR ENOUGH, I DIDN'T REALISE HE WAS THE RESIDENT D1CKHEAD...
Quote (JEMMY): "If you can prove that Ashcroft has lived in Wigan, by giving me the name of the Wigan Street in which he lived, I'll concede defeat that he should be on the list!"
THE ADDRESS OF THE PHARMACY BELOW RICHARDS FLAT: "CO-OP PHARMACY. 56 CHURCH STREET, ORRELL, WIGAN WN5 2TQ" AND HERE IS THE OFFICIAL ADDRESS OF WINSTANLEY COLLEGE WHERE THE VERVE MET: "WINSTANLEY COLLEGE, WINSTANLEY ROAD, BILLINGE, WIGAN. LANCASHIRE. WN5 7XF."
RICHARD ASHCROFT INTERVIEW http://www.wigantoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=3779&ArticleID=1481893 "Before that my mum bought my first guitar from where John Lennon got his first guitar. She got the train to Liverpool. In Wigan at the time there just wasn't a decent guitar shop. So she bought me a guitar at the age of 17."
"If there's one thing about Wigan culturally – even though at the time we were quite starved, and if it wasn't for Alan's Records and the like which were pivotal to the music scene there would have been no outlet – it's that it is in the centre of the north west."
"What Wigan was lacking was people in charge who would invest," he says, sounding ready for a fight.
"When I look back on my school, UpHolland High, I try to explain to people from different parts of the country, what kind of hybrid situation was going on, who the people were.It was an eco-system for the north west. "You had people from Billinge who talked a certain way, people from Orrell, Standish, Wigan, people from Skelmersdale who talked more Scouse than people from Liverpool. They talked a real potent language."
LIKE I KEEP SAYING... READ RICHARD ASHCROFTS INTERVIEWS AND HE'LL TELL YOU IDIOTS WHERE HE'S FROM. ARE YOU ARGUING WITH THE MAN HIMSELF NOW ? F*CKIN YOKEL RETARDOS....
END OF DISCUSSION !!!
So Pemberton is just "nearer to Wigan" and not IN Wigan either now is it ? ha ha ha !
That one comment just proves your ignorance. Have you ever even been to Pem (as the locals call it) or Wigan ?
The 1st Verve single "All In The Mind" - 1992 - Front Cover, Mesnes Park, Wigan. Is that close enough to the shops & the town centre for you ? Is it just a coincidence that they chose Wigan park ? Why not pick the fields/parks of Up-Holland or Skem ?
And by the way, "Wigan (which starts at the river douglas, wigan side of newtown)." Does it really ? So who put that "WIGAN" sign in Orrell just before you get to the KFC in Pem ? Not only is history getting re-written on this webpage but now you're having a go at Geography as well. Mind you places like Skem, Ashton/Bryn and Leigh have already re-written maths and think that 2 + 2 = 6 (and they can count that on one hand !!) ;-)
I think you'll find the signpost for Wigan is exactly where I said it was. As you come off the M58/M6 it's BEFORE (Remember this now, not AFTER, but BEFORE the KFC (Which is in Pem). Go up there and have a look ? How can you argue against this ? Its there in the ground... white with WIGAN in black letters on it ? jesus, I drive past it every day to work. If it was signposted just to say that you're not far from Wigan it would say "Pemberton" then "Wigan - 2miles" or something like that... but it doesn't, does it ? It says Wigan (not the met borough of wigan but WIGAN). And thats because Pemberton is in Wigan my friend. This is getting quite funny now... First I'm asked for Richard Ashcrofts Wigan address which I post on here. Then I'm told just because a 'postal address' says 'Wigan' it doesn't mean its Wigan. Now I'm being told that just because a sign says Wigan it doesn't mean its Wigan.
Come on then, entertain me... what else isn't Wigan ? 01942 ? Maybe things have changed slightly since "1894" and you need to keep up son.
PS .... If you get me to go and look at the sign near KFC, in Pem., that says Wigan, you will be showing me proof that Orrell isn't in Wigan after all, won't you, seeing as the sign is marking the border of Wigan 'County Borough' (as was, which included Pemberton)(not Wigan, because Wigan starts at the Duggie)
PPS ... George Formby is from Wigan. Be happy with what you've got!
George Formby is from Leigh which everyone agrees isn't in Wigan ? Make your mind up...!
Richard Ashcroft was born in Billinge (which you say isn't Wigan) and he lived in Orrell (which again, you say isn't Wigan) and the band met at Winstanley college (which yet again, you say isn't in Wigan) All complete rubbish... the fact is that The Verve practiced and developed their sound in Wigan practice rooms (Pepper Mill - WIGAN CENTRE), they started their career by playing all over Wigan (the mill/wigan pier etc WIGAN CENTRE), their homecoming gig was in Wigan (haigh Hall - 2 ENTRANCES IN WIGAN 1 ENTRANCE IN HAIGH), their first single All In The Mind has a cover sleeve of the band sat in Wigan Park. Ashcroft himself says he's from Wigan. But yeah, the 1894 blah blah blah says blah blah blah so you must be right.
I can't be arsed arguing the point anymore, think what you want... I don't care! The only reason I posted on here is so that people who live outside of Wigan don't get misled by idiots like you.
Richard Ashcroft says he's from Wigan and you say he's not. End of !
I tried to get a train home to wigan the other night but apparently the place doesn't exist. I ended up somewhere called: OrrellpembertonstandishscholeswhelleyinceHindleyWinstanleyhighfieldbeechhillswinleywhitleynewspringsKittgreenmarshgreennewtownandafewothersmallplaces..
Also, the 1984 blah, blah, blah, you refer to, doesn't mention Richard Ashcroft. So, new evidence says that The Verve 'practiced and developed their sound in Wigan practice rooms (Pepper Mill - WIGAN', fair comment (if it's true), however, no matter what you say, or the press says, or Richard Ashcroft says, none of the band members come from Wigan.
In other words you're saying that I'm wrong, The Press is wrong, EVEN Richard Ashcroft himself is wrong but you are right.
Sounds like bollox to me but fair enough if thats what you want to think. It is true that the verve started off in Wigan because I've been in bands that have practiced and recorded at these places myself and over the years I've spoken to other people from bands who were there at the time in the next rooms to the verve. I also know people who knew him from the pier (including a guy who used to sell Ashcroft weed in there). The fact that you say (if its true) as if i'd make this up just shows your unwillingness to accept facts so theres no point me arguing with you about this. I think I've made my point now so go ahead and have the last word like a little girl but i'm happy to leave it at that now. Goodbye loser !
1) Richard Ashcroft doesn't know where he's from. 2) The press don't know where he's from. 3) Post codes mean nothing. 4) Signs on roads with place names on them mean nothing. 5) Orrell & Pemberton are not in Wigan even though there's a sign saying "Wigan" (Not "Wigan Borough", not "near Wigan" but "Wigan" - you're most comical remark so far)
Something is only 'FACT' when there is significant evidence to back it up. You have no argument. There's enough evidence on here to prove that you are wrong yet you continue to say "No he's not" like a 5yr old. Wheres YOUR evidence to back up what you say.
From what you have said it sounds like you're not even from Wigan yet you'll come on here arguing over and over again about this point. You're obviously just somone with a grudge against the place with nothing better to do than hide behind your PC trying to wind people up. FACT.
How is the name "Wigan" pronounced? For better or worse, as an American, I really don't have much of a clue about British place names... I suppose it cuts both ways. Maybe articles on geographical topics can include a pronunciation guide as a matter of course. Regards, 207.174.201.18 03:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
can anyone provide a reference for the pool being too short? It has a real air of Urban myth about it. I have heard this story myself but frankly I doubt it. If no-one can come up with a reference I'll delete it soon. Of course it may have failed to meet IOC criteria for all sort of other reasons.-- NHSavage 07:28, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Why doesn't this article mention their fondness for pies? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.135.66.126 ( talk • contribs) 09:23, 17 September 2006.
POOR EDUCATION ??? 2 PEOPLE FROM MY SCHOOL YEAR ARE NOW DOCTORS, 1 RAF PILOT, SEVERAL IT CONSULTANTS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON. FOR SOMEONE FROM SOMEWHERE AS BACKWARD AS LEIGH TO SAY THAT IS JUST COMICAL. YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT ONE THING THOUGH "LEIGH IS NOT PART OF WIGAN" - I AGREE 100%, YOU CAN KEEP IT MATE !!!
This edit introduced the following errors:
Why not read a much better merged article at Metropolitan Borough of Wigan Gosh it even has some references! ;-) Generic Character 23:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Is it the metropolitan borough that is twinned rather than the town? MRSC • Talk 10:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Ask any Wiganer, 'Name the French town which is twinned with Wigan'?, and they won't have a clue. That, in itself, shows the actual worth of 'twinning'.
The point about the ONS and the Wigan Urban area should be left with the aras described as 'suburbs'. The majority of people who work in the town centre live in these areas and commute into the town centre for work. These areas are not seen as seperate towns/villages. Trafford in Manchester is seen as a suburb of Manchester not a seperate place (example). I live in Wigan so am trying to give the perspective as seen by thoses who live in the the area. When asked by someone 'where do you live' you say 'Wigan', not Ince, Orrell, Standish etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Man2 ( talk • contribs)
(from
User_talk:Man2)
We need a local expert, who can be TRUSTED to give the facts and not His or Her POV. this is turning out to be urgently needed as i have had to have a revert war with an unsigned user about facts in this article. Can someone oblige please! Random articles 22:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Suburbs of Wigan are as follows : Swinley - Springfield - Beech Hill - Standish Lower Ground - Haigh - Whelley - Scholes - Poolstock. Pemberton is an adjacent town to Wigan, but is now connected. Other towns, some close, others not so close, to Wigan are as follows : Ince - Hindley - Standish - Ashton in Makerfield - Golborne - Leigh - Atherton - Tyldesley, each of these small towns also have their suburbs. The Borough was formed and Wigan (one of the towns in the borough) gave it's name to that borough. However, each individual town/village, some historical, others relatively new, was not stripped of it's name, they all still exist. The fact that administrative control has been taken over by one large authority should not detract from their identities. Those of you in America, obviously a very large country, who care to look at Wigan and surrounding towns on Google Satellite you will notice the clear outline of each town and it's adjoining 'suburbs'.
I'm moving this text here from the main article because it really interrupted the flow of the article and probably doesn't belong in the heading.
Government Statement. .......
"The new county boundaries are solely for the purpose of defining areas of ... local government. They are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change." Source:(DoE Statement, 1st April 1974). ....... (ABCounties) -- Wafulz 02:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe the point regarding Wigan as a part of the Liverpool Diocese should be include, (maybe in the civic history section). The 'true' distance of Wigan from Manchester is 18 miles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.129.35 ( talk • contribs)
Saying "historically in the Diocese of Liverpool" is problematic: because the Diocese of Liverpool was only formed in 1880: prior to then it had been part of the Diocese of Chester. The language used is strange as well: is "Head Parish" Anglican jargon? Because I can't find any evidence of that. Anyway, why should we give one particular religion's hierachy prominence? Morwen - Talk 09:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
This article is having the same edits added/removed/readded and so on and so forth. I know not who is correct but as this is coming from a large number of anon users, should this article be considered for locking to all but registered users? Regan123 20:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Please can everyone remember to sign their contributions - underneath where you write the edit summary it has a clickable to do it. The discussion is getting difficult to understand as to who is saying what. I have added substitute signatures as best I can.
Also, please don't remove comments from the talk page and don't use words like "Plonker". Always assume good faith.
Thanks, Regan123 23:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Found this on the Wigan MBC website : http://www.wigan.gov.uk/pub/council/25facts/25things-wigan.pdf At the bottom left of page 2 is the follwing:
"Before they split in 1999, Wigan band The Verve became the town’s most famous musical export since George Formby. They were all from the Wigan area and met while at Winstanley College, a sixth form centre on the outskirts of town.. Singer Richard Ashcroft is now pursuing a successful solo career."
This clearly states that the Verve were form Wigan and that Winstanley College is on the 'outskirts' of the town (therefore in Wigan).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.77.129.35 ( talk • contribs).
WISH FM ... the WISH stands for 'WI'gan and 'S't.'H'elens. It's the local radio station for the Wigan and St.Helens area. Based in Orrell Road, Orrell. Not in Wigan or in St.Helens, but kind of 'inbetween'.
Doesn't matter how far away it is, it's still 'inbetween'.
If you took the 'direct route' from St.Helens to Wigan (A571) you wouldn't go through Orrell, but you'd not be far off. Wigan is in between Liverpool and Manchester, but not 'bang in the centre'.
Now, I never said that Orrell was 'close' to St.Helens, did I. I merely said it was 'in between', which it is. And, yes, Pemberton IS between Wigan and St.Helens.
82.33.171.111 22:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
PS. unregistered user 111 requires me to state that Pemberton, which is in between Wigan and St.Helens, is also in between Grimsby and Dublin.
The entire dispute could probably be solved by describing these people as from the Wigan area (or suburbs or whatever). The current flame war on this looks, to an outsider, pretty silly. Guy ( Help!) 12:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
A couple of things:
If anyone has any comments, please leave them below and remember to sign you comment with (~~~~) so that it makes it easier to follow the conversation. Thanks. Regan123 00:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Wigan MBC themselves acknowledge Orrell 'lying to the west of Wigan', clearly separating it from Wigan itself.
http://www.wiganmbc.gov.uk/pub/partnership/township/orrell/index.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).
PS. I rang Arnold to ask his opinion and he just said, "Orrell? ... Fok! ... I'll be back"! So I guess we'd better just ask him when he gets here.
The most common 'accent' amongst the Upholland High School pupils is 'Scouse'. I should know, I've dealt with hundreds of 'em over the years. If they put a load of Wiganers in the African jungle, it would still be 'in' Africa, not Wigan!
Let us simply ensure that the phrase 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan' is included in all the articles making reference to the borough e.g. 'Ince, Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Greater Manchester'(rather than 'Ince, Wigan, Greater Manchester') etc etc. This should easily sort out any misunderstanding's/disagreements. Man2 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Man2 ( talk • contribs) 14:38, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
Arnold Schwarzenegger? Proof plz! 138.243.228.52 02:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Arnold Schwarzenegger stayed for a few nights at Frank Richards house in Wigan, not exactly worthy of putting in the notable people section but definitely worthy of putting in a new section perhaps headed 'Wigan Trivia'. The meaning behind 'Pie Eaters' and an article about 'Wigan Monopoly' could be added in this section too.
82.33.171.111 00:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
It was an easy choice. Wigan is easier to poke fun at than Preston or Bolton and the people are gullible enough to part with their money on such trivia as Monopoly!
Hi Regan, I completely agree that we need to stick to verifiable evidence regarding sources. My mention of my contact with the council was not intended to be used as a citation regarding the Orrell area, as, short of sending all of wikipedia the email my claim cannot be verified. I do feel that the current introduction to the Orrell area does accurately describe the area however, the mention of its status as being in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan (as opposed to the town itself) is included along with its role as a suburb of the town. I feel that the statement: "Orrell is a residential suburb of Wigan in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Greater Manchester, England. is accurate in all of the sentence's component parts. In order to support this it is necessary to break down the sentence and analyse each statement within it, the first statement "Orrell is a residential suburb of Wigan" is accurate, the area is almost exclusively residential, unquestionably it acts as a suburb of the town centre and includes the word 'of' Wigan as opposed to 'in' Wigan. I also feel it uncessary to add "due to the areas proximity to Wigan town centre....it acts as a suburb", as a) an areas proximity to a CBD is a key part of what defines a suburb, therefore the reader will take as given that the area is close to Wigan town centre given the statement 'suburb' in the intro and b) a very similar statement already appears further down the article. The second part of the sentence goes on to say, "in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Greater Manchester", note the significance of the phrase 'in the', this shows that the area is a component part of the Metropolitan Borough, as opposed to a component part of the town centre e.g. Swinley. To promote the idea that the Orrell area has an identity akin to areas such as Leigh (i.e completely separate from Wigan) would be misleading, the accuracy of the articles content has not been compromised by the introduction or any other part of the article. I feel we need to leave the article as it is now, given that all the information is accurate and any further alterations (by either myself or other parties) may again result in the type of disagreement's we are currently embroiled in. To conclude Im sure the encyclopedic accuracy of the articles is foremost in all of our thinking, therefore I believe we should leave the current factually accurate article as it is. Cheers. Man2 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Man2 ( talk • contribs) 14:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
Orrell, if a 'commuter suburb' of Wigan, should also include a 'commuter suburb' of St.Helens. St.Helens, for God's sake, has the world's leading Glass Processing Company sited there and a lot of Orrell residents have worked there for their whole working life ! Clue yourselves up before making comment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).
Also, I disagree with ...'Lying on the western outskirts of Wigan'. My reason is that Orrell does not lie on the outskirts of 'Wigan', it lies on the western outskirts of the 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan'. Indeed, if you view the OS map, you will see that a boundary line runs through Orrell, showing part of Orrell being in West Lancashire, Wigan itself being several miles to the east of the centre of Orrell. Why not inform readers of the article that Orrell consists of more than one part, the main village being Far Moor, which is the active 'centre'.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).
You will see that although the opinon of 'Mr Grundy' regarding the Orrell area is just that, opinion, the debate regarding Orrell's relationship to Wigan was discussed at a public inquiry. I think we need to be careful of 'ranking' opinion within the article. Both Regan123 and the unregisted user disagree with my assessment of Orrell as a suburb, however it is clear from the above that Mr Grundy would support my claim and in town planning terms so too would Mr. Nick Clarke at Wigan MBC. With the greatest of respect to Regan123 I feel that your personal opinion of what determin a suburb is irrelevant as you concede that Wikipedia's own definition of a suburb suppots my claim. I hope we are all able to find consensus eventually. Thanks. Man2
"Orrell is an area and residential suburb in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Greater Manchester, England. Its original name was Orrell-in-Makerfield being part of the historic Makerfield Districts. The area is situated 3 miles to the west of Wigan town centre. Its northen edge surround's junction 26 of the M6 motorway. Orrell and it's neighbouring district of Pemberton are essentialy one continuous residential area. The Orrell area postal code begins with WN5."
I included the phrase 'residential suburb in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan', but ommited the reference to it being a suburb of Wigan (for the benefit of the unregisted user). I simply said it was a suburb but did not make mention of what it was a suburb of. Does anyone object to the above? Thanks. Man2
Seriously, though, the only 'link' between Orrell and Pemberton is the bridge over the motorway M6. Where do you get your 'country lane' idea from? This is fact, ... In Astley, residents have complained that their houses, on one side of a road, have been put in Wigan Borough and their council tax has been increased, to a higher level than their neighbours', because of this. That, in itself, shows that you don't have to go 'down a country lane' in order to cross a border from one place to the next. And you say you live in Orrell? You, then, should be aware of the 'agricultural greenbelt' land that separates Orrell from Pemberton. Anyone disputing this fact, only needs to look at Google Satellite image to see for themselves. Can you explain why Shevington and Standish are regarded as separate villages from Wigan, by the council themselves, as well as the residents, and are not regarded as 'suburbs' of Wigan, even though a much greater number of their residents are Wigan connected than Orrell's residents are?
The reason about Standish and Shevington residents being more 'Wigan' than Orrell's is that Orrell has a large influx of St.Helens, Skelmersdale and Liverpool people, whereas Standish and Shevington have very few. I currently own houses in Loch Street and Cross Street, both in Orrell, although many would argue against it. They are in Lamberhead Green. The 'Land Registry' is the place that tells you where everywhere is, not a local council, the Royal Mail or British Telecom. 80.192.242.187 19:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC) JemmyH.
The point about Wales is totally irrelevent. Orrell includes all of Orrell, not just the places you would only 'like' to be classified as Orrell. Im not sure what I would gain by continuously contributing to this debate if I did not believe the accuracy of my points. Im getting tired of repeatedly trying to get you to understand that the article refers to Orrell, not a selection of Orrell around Church Street or anywhere else. The area in which the Stag is, is Orrell, the area down near the Fishergate is Orrell, the area around the train station is Orrell and the area at the start of Winstanley Road is Orrell. The article concerns Orrell. Will you please stop disputing these facts. Thank you Man2
As you say, 'mate', it's Orrell, not Wigan. If you cannot see the connection of the comparison I tried to give, using Wales and England as examples, you must be quite blind to logical reason. Chester is split by the England/Wales boundary and you can jump from one place to the next. As is, and as you can, Orrell from Pemberton. You are telling me nothing that I don't know, in sheds. I possess title deeds with the boundaries drawn on. The original argument was, Orrell is not 'in' Wigan. It's not a 'suburb' of Wigan either. 80.192.242.187 21:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC) JemmyH.
PS .... Man2, I notice that you have removed the word 'suburb' from the Ince in Makerfield article. Ince, as we both know, is located next to Wigan and is full of residential housing for Wigan people. If you consider Ince 'not' to be a suburb of Wigan, how can you possibly call Orrell 'a suburb of Wigan'? Man2, you are, indeed, a hypocritical scoundrel sir!
80.192.242.187
21:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC) JemmyH.
Now Wikipedia's own definition of a suburb, "Suburbs are inhabited districts located either inside a town or city's outer rim or just outside its official limits (the term varies from country to country), or the outer elements of a conurbation.". Sounds very much like Orrell to me. It goes on to say "The presence of certain elements (whose definition varies amongst urbanists, but usually refers to some basic services and to the territorial contiguity) identifies a suburb as a peripheral populated area with a certain autonomy, where the density of habitation is usually lower than in an inner city area". Again what part of that does not describe Orrell?. The article includes the phrase, "The suburbs and more distinct settlements around a town or city may look towards the urban area for goods, services and employment opportunities".Guess what the Orrell area does that with Wigan.
To conclude Orrell meets the definition of a suburb and does not meet the definition of a village, yet we need to include the word 'village' in the article intro?. I realise this post may appear rather farcical but even by Wikipedia's own defintion Orrell is a residential suburb, not a village. I can ensure Regan that I have no agenda with this (im not sure what having one would help me accomplish) and ive posted this to help clarify that when writing about Orrell we simply cannot just ignore the area at the east of the M6 and talk only of the area at the west. Had the M6 been the physical boundary to the area, conditions for an nontraditional village could well be argued to exist and I would most definitely have supported it. The joining of Orrell to Pemberton unfortunately completely voids any argument about the use of 'village' and I wholeheartedly cannot see how any other definition but suburb can stand. Thank you. Man2
I would like to make a proposal on this list. Unless we know that they were actually brought up or have lived a while in Wigan, then we probably should move them to either the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan article or the appropriate suburb/district/village article. See Stoke-on-Trent for an example. What do people think? Regan123 19:59, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
82.33.171.111 12:47, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
82.33.171.111 00:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
82.33.171.111 15:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
You will see a sign marking the start of 'Wigan Borough' as you enter Pemberton. You will see a sign marking the start of the 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan' when you enter Ashton in Makerfield. Wigan starts at the River Douglas and has done for centuries. You, or any other Wiganer, cannot alter that.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 ( talk • contribs).