This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
Man LUE, what did you DO??!?!?!?
I removed the following sentence on 08/04/2005: "In the earlier stages of Wicca and the religions that it is based off, the christians used the wiccan's pentagram symbol as a symbol of the devil."
because:
If we need an image here, we should find something representative and then draw a good one. —Morven 20:06, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)
There is a logical (and factual) conflict in saying that the "normal" attire for Wiccan practice is a cotton robe. The sentence that immediately precedes this statement says that "many Wiccans do this, many others do not" in reference to working skyclad. If "many" work skyclad, how can their practice be less "normal" than those who work robed?
Also, the emphasis on a "pure cotton" robe seems Cunningham-esque (sorry if my prejudice is showing). As anyone who has attended a number of public rituals can attest, those who wear robes in ritual can be seen in all kinds of cloth; synthetic fabrics are not uncommon. What they wear in a private ritual, I can't say, but the point is, other than the traditional "skyclad," there is no "normal" attire for Wicca.
-Scypres 3* Alexandrian High Priestess
And the phrase "(Watch out for "clothing optional" gatherings.)" seems very POV to me, not to mention out of place even regardless of its intent. Anyone mind if I remove it? -- JoshRaspberry 11:05, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Last paragraph in the "Origins" section:
"It is important to the understanding of Wicca to realize that while Wicca as we understand it is modern, both the practice of magick and the worship of a Mother Goddess and a God or Horned God are ancient. It would be fair to say Gardner merely took the idea and ran with it. His claims that Wicca was the "Old Religion" are false, and probably has hindered, rather than helped, Wicca gain widespread acceptance."
I'm more than a little leery of the first sentence in this paragraph. It seems to me that the author is supplying a modern interpretation to ancient activities, and I'm just not sure if the interpretation fits.
"Magic" is a modern word that we use to categorize a multitude of activities done in history, but besides the confusing use of the Crowleyan/Thelemite spelling, there's also the probability that the ancients didn't think of things in the same context that we do. We might call offering a cake and a small measure of wine "magic," but to the ancients, it was a sacrifice (or depending on culture, two sacrifices--meal and libation).
"...worship of a Mother Goddess..." Yes, there were female deity figures, and yes, some of these were Mother Goddesses, and yes, there were probably specific cults that worshipped a Mother Goddess solely or primarily, but the sentence as it stands makes too close a comparison between ancient practices and modern Wiccan practice. Same with "...a God or Horned God...."
Instead of the above, I'd like to propose the following:
"The idea of a supreme Mother Goddess was common in Victorian and Eduardian literature: the concept of a Horned God--especially related to the god Pan or Faunus--was less common, but still significant. Both of these ideas were widely accepted in academic literature, and in the popular press. Gardner used these concepts as a central theology, and constructed Wicca around this core, though we now know that the historicity is dubious. His claims that Wicca was the "Old Religion" are false, and probably has hindered, rather than helped, Wicca gain widespread acceptance."
(I would have put it directly in, but I'm new to Wikipedia, and still finding my way around editing.)
Justin
This is after the sacred texts link.
"Archive of public domain documents relevant to Wicca and modern Paganism. Includes a public domain copy of the Gardnerian Book of Shadows."
The last part of that is disputable, because due to the initiatory nature of Wicca, the fact that the Book is only availably for initiates to see, and that no-one is initiated who might reveal any of the secrets, it is impossible for the Book to have been released in the public domain.
I've put this up here because removing it outright would probably get me shouted at, and re-wording would most likely end up with it being put back how it was, but the fact stands that it's impossible for a copy of the actual Gardnarian Book of Shadows to be online there as it would never have been released by an initiate or coven to be put online; it goes against some of the most basic rules of the tradition.
Reword or remove?
-- Veratien 13:01, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The text at Sacred Texts is (putatively) at least a partial copy of Gerald Gardner's Ye Bok of Ye Art Magical,and thus would broadly qualify as a Gardnerian Book of Shadows. It was excerpted from Aidan Kelly's Crafting the Art of Magic, and as such it's not strictly "public domain" (though TTBOMK, Aidan Kelly has made no action to protect the copyright of this particular excerpt). I've seen the book vetted as "a valuable text of the history of Wicca" by Don Frew, a public and recognized Gardnerian 3*, though of course he could not comment on the accuracy one way or another.
I'd say leave it up, unchanged: the BoS at Sacred Texts is actually all over the Internet, but in varying degrees of accuracy to the original excerpt. Their is, at least, accurate to Kelly's original.
-- Justin.eiler 05:31, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Crowley used the term 'Magi' to mean something different from its Persian origin, which does not help matters. I'm not sure the point about 'magick' belongs here at all - it needs its own section. Cavalorn 12:35, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The previous edit (which I reverted) used the claim that Wicca is 25,000 years old. While some people do believe this, most anthropologists do not. We should take a look at the sources we use when discussing the history of Wicca. I'd like to recommend Religious Tolerance as a source. -- Morningstar2651 22:24, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
sorry to cut in.. it's so silly..Wicca is new age no true witch sees a neopagan as anything but a trend follower. being a witch isn't a religion the Celts wasn't Wiccan nor was the Druids. it's the basics of the basics...ecletic since they grab one thing from many cultures and put it together to make a new found faith? there is NO religion that you can join that make you a witch.
I would like an explination as to the removal to the link to the article on Oh My Gods! - which is a Pagan comic strip dealing directly with Wicca. The commentary left by User:Wetman merely stated (rRv User:Shivian's self-advertisement for his comic strip) - however I don't understand why a article that is about a comic strip which directly deals with wicca was removed. The comic strip referenced in said article directly references the Wiccan Definition, History of Wicca, Origins, developments, Beliefs and practices, Wiccan traditions, Morality, and Wiccan Divisions. I don't see why a reference which was properly sub-categoriesed in the "see also" section was removed as "self advertisement" - when it is obviousally based on a article which does little advertising and much more historical referencing of the comic strip, it's history, and it's current place. -- Shivian Balaris 05:31, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
I am for the placing of Oh My Gods! in the See Also section. It should not be removed pre-emptively. The Oh My Gods! article is currently a candidate for deletion, but I am confident that it will not be deleted. -- Morningstar2651 16:32, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
Oh please...
I think it should be taken off the article because it doesn't actually have anything on the site, which is almost as bad as PAN's, and the URL just makes me cringe...
-- Justin.eiler 02:02, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
Just pointing out that I changed the caption of the photo in Beliefs and Practices because I actually know the people in the photo. It was their handfasting ceremony, which is the pagan equivilent of a marriage, so I changed the text slightly to reflect that.
Question, though, is do they know that this photo is up here?
- Veratien 11:17, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
I greatly appreciate the addition of the pentacle image: however, I think the paragraph of explanatory caption of what a pentacle is should probably remain in the article for Pentagram. I've taken the liberty of extracting it, however, I'm also contacting the editor Solar to join the discussion.
-- Justin.eiler 23:16, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Solar 10:19, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It would be helpful to check the Oxford English Dictionary, which is the most widely accepted academic authority on the origins of English words. I'm just going by memory, but I believe that the OED lists 'wica' as a verb beaning 'to bend' or 'to twist.'
I recall Wicca originating from the Latin word Wicca - Lit. Weaker or weaken. Any other latin speakers verify this?
I think this link should resolve this: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=wicca&searchmode=none 01:00, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm curious as to why there is no notice of the similarities between all neo-pagan religions and the organisation from which each cult span off initially, Freemasonry. It amazes me that practitioners of neo-pagan religions haven't investigated the organisation that has for the last thousand years that we know of (historically) been refered to as 'The Craft', a name that has even been stolen, not to mention thousands of rites, et cetera. Why isn't there any mention of this in this article?
Almost every neo-pagan 'rite', regardless of where its origin is oft cited to have originated, can be found in any rite and dogma book from any masonic lodge. I'm also curious as to why the citation of the pentagram, being inverted in the instance of display here, isn't cited as a reference to Lucifer, the god of illumination and knowledge. I can't think of any other significance of the pentragram, apart from the greek elements, which is a loose tie in at its best. The pentagram is the 8 year cyclic pattern of Lucifer, the morning star (Venus) in the sky. However, as it appears here, it would be as viewed from the southern hemisphere. 211.31.9.5 04:22, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm, Five Wounds of Christ; Water, Fire, Air, Earth and Spirit... Lots of stuff. But seriously, saying Wicca spun off from Freemasonry is like saying that Christianity spun off from Egyptian religion, there are connections and borrowings, but the blending with other influences coupled with the dropping of Degrees by many branches of Wicca would seem to argue against Wicca being simply and offshoot of Freemasonry. That is before addressing other, non-Wicca derived Neo-Page groups like the Discordians. Alex Law 04:11, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Jachin 06:11, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
Any help which could be provided would be greatly appreciated. -Godfearing Parent.
I found this statement added to the article:
Wicca is a Neopagan religion(though wicca is often described as a religon this is not the most accurate definition because religion is to re-legion or to rejoin. Whereas humans are always with the earth so wiccans do not need to wait to be rejoined with the earth after death)
(emphasis mine, and the added section in bold)
I have never heard this belief before ever, nor do I believe it to be the correct definition of religion. My first attempt to take it out resulted in it being put back, so can anyone tell me if this statement is at all valid? -- CABHAN TALK CONTRIBS 22:41:02, 2005-08-29 (UTC)
It's inaccurate, POV, and does not represent an important belief of any Wicca-based Neo-Pagan theology that I'm aware of. Keep deleting it as it shows up; I just did. Jkelly 22:49, 29 August 2005 (UTC)JKelly
i find that many book share my belife who said that religion dosen't mean re-ligion?!?! i find that this coment was and is valid maby could be moved but it NEEDS to be in there somewere!!!
for exaple go to the book "wicca for men" it states that fact!
oh and sorry about the pleg of aligance that was someone useing my acount for reveng on the guv. sorry again paganpan
i have moved the position of "(though wicca is often described as a religon this is not the most accurate definition because religion is to re-legion or to rejoin. Whereas humans are always with the earth so wiccans do not need to wait to be rejoined with the earth after death)" to a more reasunable place.
as for a cite of example again wicca for men is a great book it said "it is oftin difocult to proprly expaln wicca as a religion because our society has been dominated by a belief system alien to the teachings of nature. our language oftin makes it dificult to express consepts which are at the very root of nature based 'religons' even the word religon oftin denots consepts not in harmony whith the wiccan path. when one considers the word RELIGON to mean 're-legion' or 're-joining' it is easy to understand how this word may seem inapropret"
ok so if it had to be on there what would you think it shuld say? paganpan
I have noticed Neo-wicca is largely glossed over as a new part of Wicca, rather than parallel, rather concerning considering how many people are Neo-wicca and how important it is to recognise this as different to Wicca.
Propose:
Neo-wicca is a new phenomenon, which is usually wholly eclectic, however like Wicca there are various different traditions. Neo-wicca often learn on their own terms, from books and other sources, but have little or no formal training and no initiation into Wicca. The beliefs of Neo-wicca are generally similar to that of Wicca however the details can often vary greatly as it follows the new age idea of personal belief/spirituality over formal religious doctrine. Neo-Wicca have varied views of the divine, either following soft-polytheism seeing all gods and goddesses as one god/goddess, polytheism working with gods and goddesses from various pantheons or pantheism working with a single divine present in all.
The 'Neo' in Neo-wicca refers to the New Age approach taken by Neo-wicca that puts emphasis on personal spirituality or belief over the organized religion of Wicca. It also refers to a new take on Wicca, this has less to do with the age of the religion but the idea that this is a belief system which may have come naturally from Wicca if it was allowed to evolve in it’s own time, media influences have brought about Neo-wicca, it develops paralleled to Wicca, but is not part of Wicca.
Often Neo-wicca describe themselves as 'Eclectic Wicca' or 'Solitary Wicca', although not actually Wicca.
Please consider including a link to Arcadia VZW, when the page gets unprotected. Nabla 00:17, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
The following raised a little flag for me:
"Many Gardnerian Wiccans do not claim to be dualist, but rather, may practice some form of polytheism, often with particular reference to the Celtic pantheons; they may also be animists, pantheists, agnostics or indeed any of the other spectacular range of possibilities."
As has been pointed out already in discussion, 'Wicca' is not a synonym for 'Witchcraft', although many people use them (incorrectly) interchangably. So, my objection (as one who considers himself agnostic) is this: what is agnostic Wicca? If there's one unified thing that can be said about Wicca, it would be the belief in some kind of higher power. It seems to me that this excludes the possibility of atheists who (as I understand it) believe in the abscence of a higher power and agnostics who (again, as I understand it) have no belief in higher power (as in, maybe there is, maybe there isn't, it's nothing I concern myself with). Contrastingly, I see that there can be agnostic (or for that matter atheist, athough I doubt such a person exists) Witches, since Witchcraft is the secular tradition of generating/harnessing raw energy into something purposeful (at least as I understand it, of course, it should probably be appended that when the masses see such a thing possible, they call it science, but they call it arcane if its done in a manner they don't yet understand/control ... reference magnetic energy, although I'd need to sniff around for the source I'm remembering :p). -- Graatz 13:57, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm a bit concerned that this Wikipedia article furthers a mistaken stereotype about the difference in meaning between a "Pentagram" and "Pentacle." Following from my own knowledge, and also clearly explained Here and in the Pentacle article on wikipedia. The presence of a circular border does not enter in to either definition, but rather the dimensions of it. Pentagrams are 2D figures, whereas the term Pentacle implies that it is a 3D object.
-- Taliesin84 03:09, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Do wiccans put love spells on you? I fell in love with a girl from Peculiar and wondered how I could break the spell??
I have created a page Women as theological figures (note - this title may change): would persons knowledgable about Wicca please add to it (or create link pages etc).
Jackiespeel 21:53, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
An editor (presumably the site creator, based on his Wikipedia name) has been continuously adding a link to capricorn-witch.tripod.com. Having looked at this site, it is not particularly well-made, nor does it add anything to this article that is not already covered in other links. Due to WP:NOT, several editors have been removing this link when it appears.
If the editor would like to rationalize the inclusion here, so be it. Otherwise, please go away. -- CABHAN TALK CONTRIBS 23:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
Man LUE, what did you DO??!?!?!?
I removed the following sentence on 08/04/2005: "In the earlier stages of Wicca and the religions that it is based off, the christians used the wiccan's pentagram symbol as a symbol of the devil."
because:
If we need an image here, we should find something representative and then draw a good one. —Morven 20:06, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)
There is a logical (and factual) conflict in saying that the "normal" attire for Wiccan practice is a cotton robe. The sentence that immediately precedes this statement says that "many Wiccans do this, many others do not" in reference to working skyclad. If "many" work skyclad, how can their practice be less "normal" than those who work robed?
Also, the emphasis on a "pure cotton" robe seems Cunningham-esque (sorry if my prejudice is showing). As anyone who has attended a number of public rituals can attest, those who wear robes in ritual can be seen in all kinds of cloth; synthetic fabrics are not uncommon. What they wear in a private ritual, I can't say, but the point is, other than the traditional "skyclad," there is no "normal" attire for Wicca.
-Scypres 3* Alexandrian High Priestess
And the phrase "(Watch out for "clothing optional" gatherings.)" seems very POV to me, not to mention out of place even regardless of its intent. Anyone mind if I remove it? -- JoshRaspberry 11:05, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Last paragraph in the "Origins" section:
"It is important to the understanding of Wicca to realize that while Wicca as we understand it is modern, both the practice of magick and the worship of a Mother Goddess and a God or Horned God are ancient. It would be fair to say Gardner merely took the idea and ran with it. His claims that Wicca was the "Old Religion" are false, and probably has hindered, rather than helped, Wicca gain widespread acceptance."
I'm more than a little leery of the first sentence in this paragraph. It seems to me that the author is supplying a modern interpretation to ancient activities, and I'm just not sure if the interpretation fits.
"Magic" is a modern word that we use to categorize a multitude of activities done in history, but besides the confusing use of the Crowleyan/Thelemite spelling, there's also the probability that the ancients didn't think of things in the same context that we do. We might call offering a cake and a small measure of wine "magic," but to the ancients, it was a sacrifice (or depending on culture, two sacrifices--meal and libation).
"...worship of a Mother Goddess..." Yes, there were female deity figures, and yes, some of these were Mother Goddesses, and yes, there were probably specific cults that worshipped a Mother Goddess solely or primarily, but the sentence as it stands makes too close a comparison between ancient practices and modern Wiccan practice. Same with "...a God or Horned God...."
Instead of the above, I'd like to propose the following:
"The idea of a supreme Mother Goddess was common in Victorian and Eduardian literature: the concept of a Horned God--especially related to the god Pan or Faunus--was less common, but still significant. Both of these ideas were widely accepted in academic literature, and in the popular press. Gardner used these concepts as a central theology, and constructed Wicca around this core, though we now know that the historicity is dubious. His claims that Wicca was the "Old Religion" are false, and probably has hindered, rather than helped, Wicca gain widespread acceptance."
(I would have put it directly in, but I'm new to Wikipedia, and still finding my way around editing.)
Justin
This is after the sacred texts link.
"Archive of public domain documents relevant to Wicca and modern Paganism. Includes a public domain copy of the Gardnerian Book of Shadows."
The last part of that is disputable, because due to the initiatory nature of Wicca, the fact that the Book is only availably for initiates to see, and that no-one is initiated who might reveal any of the secrets, it is impossible for the Book to have been released in the public domain.
I've put this up here because removing it outright would probably get me shouted at, and re-wording would most likely end up with it being put back how it was, but the fact stands that it's impossible for a copy of the actual Gardnarian Book of Shadows to be online there as it would never have been released by an initiate or coven to be put online; it goes against some of the most basic rules of the tradition.
Reword or remove?
-- Veratien 13:01, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The text at Sacred Texts is (putatively) at least a partial copy of Gerald Gardner's Ye Bok of Ye Art Magical,and thus would broadly qualify as a Gardnerian Book of Shadows. It was excerpted from Aidan Kelly's Crafting the Art of Magic, and as such it's not strictly "public domain" (though TTBOMK, Aidan Kelly has made no action to protect the copyright of this particular excerpt). I've seen the book vetted as "a valuable text of the history of Wicca" by Don Frew, a public and recognized Gardnerian 3*, though of course he could not comment on the accuracy one way or another.
I'd say leave it up, unchanged: the BoS at Sacred Texts is actually all over the Internet, but in varying degrees of accuracy to the original excerpt. Their is, at least, accurate to Kelly's original.
-- Justin.eiler 05:31, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Crowley used the term 'Magi' to mean something different from its Persian origin, which does not help matters. I'm not sure the point about 'magick' belongs here at all - it needs its own section. Cavalorn 12:35, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The previous edit (which I reverted) used the claim that Wicca is 25,000 years old. While some people do believe this, most anthropologists do not. We should take a look at the sources we use when discussing the history of Wicca. I'd like to recommend Religious Tolerance as a source. -- Morningstar2651 22:24, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
sorry to cut in.. it's so silly..Wicca is new age no true witch sees a neopagan as anything but a trend follower. being a witch isn't a religion the Celts wasn't Wiccan nor was the Druids. it's the basics of the basics...ecletic since they grab one thing from many cultures and put it together to make a new found faith? there is NO religion that you can join that make you a witch.
I would like an explination as to the removal to the link to the article on Oh My Gods! - which is a Pagan comic strip dealing directly with Wicca. The commentary left by User:Wetman merely stated (rRv User:Shivian's self-advertisement for his comic strip) - however I don't understand why a article that is about a comic strip which directly deals with wicca was removed. The comic strip referenced in said article directly references the Wiccan Definition, History of Wicca, Origins, developments, Beliefs and practices, Wiccan traditions, Morality, and Wiccan Divisions. I don't see why a reference which was properly sub-categoriesed in the "see also" section was removed as "self advertisement" - when it is obviousally based on a article which does little advertising and much more historical referencing of the comic strip, it's history, and it's current place. -- Shivian Balaris 05:31, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
I am for the placing of Oh My Gods! in the See Also section. It should not be removed pre-emptively. The Oh My Gods! article is currently a candidate for deletion, but I am confident that it will not be deleted. -- Morningstar2651 16:32, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
Oh please...
I think it should be taken off the article because it doesn't actually have anything on the site, which is almost as bad as PAN's, and the URL just makes me cringe...
-- Justin.eiler 02:02, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
Just pointing out that I changed the caption of the photo in Beliefs and Practices because I actually know the people in the photo. It was their handfasting ceremony, which is the pagan equivilent of a marriage, so I changed the text slightly to reflect that.
Question, though, is do they know that this photo is up here?
- Veratien 11:17, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
I greatly appreciate the addition of the pentacle image: however, I think the paragraph of explanatory caption of what a pentacle is should probably remain in the article for Pentagram. I've taken the liberty of extracting it, however, I'm also contacting the editor Solar to join the discussion.
-- Justin.eiler 23:16, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Solar 10:19, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It would be helpful to check the Oxford English Dictionary, which is the most widely accepted academic authority on the origins of English words. I'm just going by memory, but I believe that the OED lists 'wica' as a verb beaning 'to bend' or 'to twist.'
I recall Wicca originating from the Latin word Wicca - Lit. Weaker or weaken. Any other latin speakers verify this?
I think this link should resolve this: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=wicca&searchmode=none 01:00, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm curious as to why there is no notice of the similarities between all neo-pagan religions and the organisation from which each cult span off initially, Freemasonry. It amazes me that practitioners of neo-pagan religions haven't investigated the organisation that has for the last thousand years that we know of (historically) been refered to as 'The Craft', a name that has even been stolen, not to mention thousands of rites, et cetera. Why isn't there any mention of this in this article?
Almost every neo-pagan 'rite', regardless of where its origin is oft cited to have originated, can be found in any rite and dogma book from any masonic lodge. I'm also curious as to why the citation of the pentagram, being inverted in the instance of display here, isn't cited as a reference to Lucifer, the god of illumination and knowledge. I can't think of any other significance of the pentragram, apart from the greek elements, which is a loose tie in at its best. The pentagram is the 8 year cyclic pattern of Lucifer, the morning star (Venus) in the sky. However, as it appears here, it would be as viewed from the southern hemisphere. 211.31.9.5 04:22, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm, Five Wounds of Christ; Water, Fire, Air, Earth and Spirit... Lots of stuff. But seriously, saying Wicca spun off from Freemasonry is like saying that Christianity spun off from Egyptian religion, there are connections and borrowings, but the blending with other influences coupled with the dropping of Degrees by many branches of Wicca would seem to argue against Wicca being simply and offshoot of Freemasonry. That is before addressing other, non-Wicca derived Neo-Page groups like the Discordians. Alex Law 04:11, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Jachin 06:11, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
Any help which could be provided would be greatly appreciated. -Godfearing Parent.
I found this statement added to the article:
Wicca is a Neopagan religion(though wicca is often described as a religon this is not the most accurate definition because religion is to re-legion or to rejoin. Whereas humans are always with the earth so wiccans do not need to wait to be rejoined with the earth after death)
(emphasis mine, and the added section in bold)
I have never heard this belief before ever, nor do I believe it to be the correct definition of religion. My first attempt to take it out resulted in it being put back, so can anyone tell me if this statement is at all valid? -- CABHAN TALK CONTRIBS 22:41:02, 2005-08-29 (UTC)
It's inaccurate, POV, and does not represent an important belief of any Wicca-based Neo-Pagan theology that I'm aware of. Keep deleting it as it shows up; I just did. Jkelly 22:49, 29 August 2005 (UTC)JKelly
i find that many book share my belife who said that religion dosen't mean re-ligion?!?! i find that this coment was and is valid maby could be moved but it NEEDS to be in there somewere!!!
for exaple go to the book "wicca for men" it states that fact!
oh and sorry about the pleg of aligance that was someone useing my acount for reveng on the guv. sorry again paganpan
i have moved the position of "(though wicca is often described as a religon this is not the most accurate definition because religion is to re-legion or to rejoin. Whereas humans are always with the earth so wiccans do not need to wait to be rejoined with the earth after death)" to a more reasunable place.
as for a cite of example again wicca for men is a great book it said "it is oftin difocult to proprly expaln wicca as a religion because our society has been dominated by a belief system alien to the teachings of nature. our language oftin makes it dificult to express consepts which are at the very root of nature based 'religons' even the word religon oftin denots consepts not in harmony whith the wiccan path. when one considers the word RELIGON to mean 're-legion' or 're-joining' it is easy to understand how this word may seem inapropret"
ok so if it had to be on there what would you think it shuld say? paganpan
I have noticed Neo-wicca is largely glossed over as a new part of Wicca, rather than parallel, rather concerning considering how many people are Neo-wicca and how important it is to recognise this as different to Wicca.
Propose:
Neo-wicca is a new phenomenon, which is usually wholly eclectic, however like Wicca there are various different traditions. Neo-wicca often learn on their own terms, from books and other sources, but have little or no formal training and no initiation into Wicca. The beliefs of Neo-wicca are generally similar to that of Wicca however the details can often vary greatly as it follows the new age idea of personal belief/spirituality over formal religious doctrine. Neo-Wicca have varied views of the divine, either following soft-polytheism seeing all gods and goddesses as one god/goddess, polytheism working with gods and goddesses from various pantheons or pantheism working with a single divine present in all.
The 'Neo' in Neo-wicca refers to the New Age approach taken by Neo-wicca that puts emphasis on personal spirituality or belief over the organized religion of Wicca. It also refers to a new take on Wicca, this has less to do with the age of the religion but the idea that this is a belief system which may have come naturally from Wicca if it was allowed to evolve in it’s own time, media influences have brought about Neo-wicca, it develops paralleled to Wicca, but is not part of Wicca.
Often Neo-wicca describe themselves as 'Eclectic Wicca' or 'Solitary Wicca', although not actually Wicca.
Please consider including a link to Arcadia VZW, when the page gets unprotected. Nabla 00:17, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
The following raised a little flag for me:
"Many Gardnerian Wiccans do not claim to be dualist, but rather, may practice some form of polytheism, often with particular reference to the Celtic pantheons; they may also be animists, pantheists, agnostics or indeed any of the other spectacular range of possibilities."
As has been pointed out already in discussion, 'Wicca' is not a synonym for 'Witchcraft', although many people use them (incorrectly) interchangably. So, my objection (as one who considers himself agnostic) is this: what is agnostic Wicca? If there's one unified thing that can be said about Wicca, it would be the belief in some kind of higher power. It seems to me that this excludes the possibility of atheists who (as I understand it) believe in the abscence of a higher power and agnostics who (again, as I understand it) have no belief in higher power (as in, maybe there is, maybe there isn't, it's nothing I concern myself with). Contrastingly, I see that there can be agnostic (or for that matter atheist, athough I doubt such a person exists) Witches, since Witchcraft is the secular tradition of generating/harnessing raw energy into something purposeful (at least as I understand it, of course, it should probably be appended that when the masses see such a thing possible, they call it science, but they call it arcane if its done in a manner they don't yet understand/control ... reference magnetic energy, although I'd need to sniff around for the source I'm remembering :p). -- Graatz 13:57, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm a bit concerned that this Wikipedia article furthers a mistaken stereotype about the difference in meaning between a "Pentagram" and "Pentacle." Following from my own knowledge, and also clearly explained Here and in the Pentacle article on wikipedia. The presence of a circular border does not enter in to either definition, but rather the dimensions of it. Pentagrams are 2D figures, whereas the term Pentacle implies that it is a 3D object.
-- Taliesin84 03:09, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Do wiccans put love spells on you? I fell in love with a girl from Peculiar and wondered how I could break the spell??
I have created a page Women as theological figures (note - this title may change): would persons knowledgable about Wicca please add to it (or create link pages etc).
Jackiespeel 21:53, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
An editor (presumably the site creator, based on his Wikipedia name) has been continuously adding a link to capricorn-witch.tripod.com. Having looked at this site, it is not particularly well-made, nor does it add anything to this article that is not already covered in other links. Due to WP:NOT, several editors have been removing this link when it appears.
If the editor would like to rationalize the inclusion here, so be it. Otherwise, please go away. -- CABHAN TALK CONTRIBS 23:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)