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Note that I titled the article by its common name, i.e., what reliable sources (see bibliography) call it most often. In this case, they're not calling it "Series Finale Parts 1 & 2" or "whoami and Hello, Elliot" but simply "the Mr. Robot finale". Please discuss here for consensus before unilaterally changing the title. czar 11:36, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
whoami and Hello, Elliot, as quote formatting is typically never included in a title, with {{ DISPLAYTITLE}} adding the quotes as necessary, so the title is displayed as
"whoami" and "Hello, Elliot". -- / Alex/ 21 06:26, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
by which no one knows themAccording to... who? You? You've already got consensus against you on the other episode's talk page concerning episode titles with myself, Drovethrughosts and Gonnym; the same argument applies here. You're going to have a gain a wider consensus for support for these "common names". -- / Alex/ 21 01:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
When there is no single, obvious name that is demonstrably the most frequently used for the topic by these sources, editors should reach a consensus as to which title is best by considering these criteria directly.You are very clearly ignoring this. Nevertheless, you are edit-warring by moving it back. I do know better, and I'm letting you know how it works. Your creation was controversial, against a widespread guideline where there is no precedence of going against it, and against a very clear consensus. Given that it is your initial title that has no support and is controversial, it is up to you to file an RM. -- / Alex/ 21 07:21, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
If you want to claim consensus, start a formal discussion and give your argument. As of now, I've (1) actually done the work of writing/expanding the article, (2) explained how sources are actually referring to the subject (i.e., its common name), (3) cited the letter of policy I am using for determining the article's title—policy that unambiguously applies to all of the encyclopedia, not just television episodes, (4) not received a citation when I've asked for where NCTV says otherwise. The burden of proof is not on me and I can't even start a requested move on your behalf as I can't cite a basis for your position. czar 11:32, 7 January 2020 (UTC)If it has never been stable, or it has been unstable for a long time, and no consensus can be reached on what the title should be, default to the title used by the first major contributor after the article ceased to be a stub. Any potentially controversial proposal to change a title should be advertised at Wikipedia:Requested moves, and consensus reached before any change is made. Debating controversial titles is often unproductive, and there are many other ways to help improve Wikipedia.
— WP:TITLECHANGES
If an article does not already exist with the name of the television show, episode title, or character name for which you are trying to create an article, then simply use the name of the subject as the article title (e.g. Carnivàle, Pauline Fowler or " Cape Feare").The episode titles are "whoami" and "Hello, Elliot" not "Mr. Robot finale". Drovethrughosts ( talk) 14:16, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
do you all share the positioncomment, I'd say that's a yes, and thus the article can be moved per your own WP:TITLECHANGES quote. -- / Alex/ 21 06:32, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
no consensus can be reached on what the title should be- that is most definitely not the case here. If you have decided to leave the discussion, then the consensus becomes solid as the remaining editors all support the move. Note that any attempts to revert the move would be considered edit-warring. -- / Alex/ 21 03:37, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
Very disappointing and discourteous that you couldn't even wait for the RfC to end. There's no way I'm editing in this article space for a while, so wanted to cross-post my title research from the RfC for future editors:
Here is an accounting of the article's sources and how they refer to the episode:
- No mention of "whoami" or "Hello, Elliot" titles: New York Times, CNN, TV Guide, Rolling Stone, Deadline, Entertainment Weekly, Showbuzz Daily, TVLine, Paste, Complex, Bustle, Engadget
- Single mention of "whoami" or "Hello, Elliot" titles: IGN, Hollywood Reporter, Vulture (not in prose, in headline but not even invoked as the title), AV Club (not in prose, only in callout), Vox (not in prose, only in URL slug)
- All sources introduce and repeatedly refer to the episodes as "the finale" and many refer to them as "S4 E12"/13.
There is no reasonably way to conclude that the broadcaster's official title is the " common name" for this episode/topic. There should be no reason why a reader would expect to find the article about the finale at "whoami" and "Hello, Elliot".
— Special:PermanentLink/937582323
Take care. czar 23:29, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
"There is often more than one appropriate title for an article. In that case, editors choose the best title by consensus"– that is what has happened as there is a clear consensus to use the official titles, which is in line with the
Consistency characteristicfrom COMMONNAME, as literally 99.9% of TV articles are named after the episode title, with the exception of that Inhumans episode I believe.
"There should be no reason why a reader would expect to find the article about the finale at whoami and Hello, Elliot"– that's an assumption and an odd one when again, literally every episode article is named after its title. Redirects exists, one can find it by searching for " Mr. Robot finale" if you're that concerned. You could also create a " Series Finale (Mr. Robot)" redirect as well. Drovethrughosts ( talk) 14:33, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
Note that I titled the article by its common name, i.e., what reliable sources (see bibliography) call it most often. In this case, they're not calling it "Series Finale Parts 1 & 2" or "whoami and Hello, Elliot" but simply "the Mr. Robot finale". Please discuss here for consensus before unilaterally changing the title. czar 11:36, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
whoami and Hello, Elliot, as quote formatting is typically never included in a title, with {{ DISPLAYTITLE}} adding the quotes as necessary, so the title is displayed as
"whoami" and "Hello, Elliot". -- / Alex/ 21 06:26, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
by which no one knows themAccording to... who? You? You've already got consensus against you on the other episode's talk page concerning episode titles with myself, Drovethrughosts and Gonnym; the same argument applies here. You're going to have a gain a wider consensus for support for these "common names". -- / Alex/ 21 01:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
When there is no single, obvious name that is demonstrably the most frequently used for the topic by these sources, editors should reach a consensus as to which title is best by considering these criteria directly.You are very clearly ignoring this. Nevertheless, you are edit-warring by moving it back. I do know better, and I'm letting you know how it works. Your creation was controversial, against a widespread guideline where there is no precedence of going against it, and against a very clear consensus. Given that it is your initial title that has no support and is controversial, it is up to you to file an RM. -- / Alex/ 21 07:21, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
If you want to claim consensus, start a formal discussion and give your argument. As of now, I've (1) actually done the work of writing/expanding the article, (2) explained how sources are actually referring to the subject (i.e., its common name), (3) cited the letter of policy I am using for determining the article's title—policy that unambiguously applies to all of the encyclopedia, not just television episodes, (4) not received a citation when I've asked for where NCTV says otherwise. The burden of proof is not on me and I can't even start a requested move on your behalf as I can't cite a basis for your position. czar 11:32, 7 January 2020 (UTC)If it has never been stable, or it has been unstable for a long time, and no consensus can be reached on what the title should be, default to the title used by the first major contributor after the article ceased to be a stub. Any potentially controversial proposal to change a title should be advertised at Wikipedia:Requested moves, and consensus reached before any change is made. Debating controversial titles is often unproductive, and there are many other ways to help improve Wikipedia.
— WP:TITLECHANGES
If an article does not already exist with the name of the television show, episode title, or character name for which you are trying to create an article, then simply use the name of the subject as the article title (e.g. Carnivàle, Pauline Fowler or " Cape Feare").The episode titles are "whoami" and "Hello, Elliot" not "Mr. Robot finale". Drovethrughosts ( talk) 14:16, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
do you all share the positioncomment, I'd say that's a yes, and thus the article can be moved per your own WP:TITLECHANGES quote. -- / Alex/ 21 06:32, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
no consensus can be reached on what the title should be- that is most definitely not the case here. If you have decided to leave the discussion, then the consensus becomes solid as the remaining editors all support the move. Note that any attempts to revert the move would be considered edit-warring. -- / Alex/ 21 03:37, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
Very disappointing and discourteous that you couldn't even wait for the RfC to end. There's no way I'm editing in this article space for a while, so wanted to cross-post my title research from the RfC for future editors:
Here is an accounting of the article's sources and how they refer to the episode:
- No mention of "whoami" or "Hello, Elliot" titles: New York Times, CNN, TV Guide, Rolling Stone, Deadline, Entertainment Weekly, Showbuzz Daily, TVLine, Paste, Complex, Bustle, Engadget
- Single mention of "whoami" or "Hello, Elliot" titles: IGN, Hollywood Reporter, Vulture (not in prose, in headline but not even invoked as the title), AV Club (not in prose, only in callout), Vox (not in prose, only in URL slug)
- All sources introduce and repeatedly refer to the episodes as "the finale" and many refer to them as "S4 E12"/13.
There is no reasonably way to conclude that the broadcaster's official title is the " common name" for this episode/topic. There should be no reason why a reader would expect to find the article about the finale at "whoami" and "Hello, Elliot".
— Special:PermanentLink/937582323
Take care. czar 23:29, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
"There is often more than one appropriate title for an article. In that case, editors choose the best title by consensus"– that is what has happened as there is a clear consensus to use the official titles, which is in line with the
Consistency characteristicfrom COMMONNAME, as literally 99.9% of TV articles are named after the episode title, with the exception of that Inhumans episode I believe.
"There should be no reason why a reader would expect to find the article about the finale at whoami and Hello, Elliot"– that's an assumption and an odd one when again, literally every episode article is named after its title. Redirects exists, one can find it by searching for " Mr. Robot finale" if you're that concerned. You could also create a " Series Finale (Mr. Robot)" redirect as well. Drovethrughosts ( talk) 14:33, 26 January 2020 (UTC)