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![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on November 25, 2006, November 25, 2007, November 25, 2008, November 25, 2009, November 25, 2010, November 25, 2012, and November 25, 2016. |
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 12 January 2022 and 13 May 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Joel Garvey (
article contribs).
I would like to try to insert a partial passenger list, with the help of the page editors. I'm somewhat amazed to discover that there are no books written on the White Ship, which had such a dramatic effect on English and French history. So this Wikipedia article really is it. I'm a librarian, so I'll be happy to source the names.
This is one list I've found (not sourced yet, or corrected):
Joel J. Rane ( talk) 08:35, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
I am reverting this edit Revision as of 18:30, 5 March 2021 by user:Jardeheu which changed the date of the sinking from 25th to 24th November 1119.
I am worried that is righting a great wrong because the edit which changes the date added "(and not 25 November 1120, as widely mentioned)." To support the change user:Jardeheu uses as an unreliable source that analyses a primary source: http://closducotentin.over-blog.fr/2020/11/essai-d-enquete-nautique-sur-le-naufrage-de-la-blanche-nef-a-barfleur-au-xiie-siecle.html
The website ( http://closducotentin.over-blog.fr/ ) states on its home page
French | Google translated |
---|---|
Ce site présente les actualités proposées par l'équipe du Pays d'art et d'histoire du Clos du Cotentin. Il contient également des dossiers documentaires consacrés au patrimoine et à l'histoire de Valognes, Bricquebec et Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte. | This site presents the news proposed by the team of the Country of art and history of Clos du Cotentin. It also contains documentary files devoted to the heritage and history of Valognes, Bricquebec and Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte. |
I Checked
And while Mason does not categorically state the sinking took place on 25th he makes it clear that it happened no earlier than the 25th:
but when Henry embarked for England with his son from Barfleur on 25 November 1120, all the king's achievements were overthrown by one of the greatest and most frequently recounted personal tragedies of English history. Henry sailed first, having turned down the offer of a new ship—the White Ship—from Thomas Fitzstephen; the Ætheling and his retinue (reminiscent of the youthful entourage once enjoyed by his uncle Robert Curthose) followed in the new vessel.
So I think that as Wikipedia is a follower and not a place for publishing original research, if the date of the sinking is to be changed it must be done by citing 21st century reliable secondary sources. -- PBS ( talk) 15:19, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
A reputable newspaper has reported this week that a significant portion of likely wreckage has been found in a likely location. 94.30.84.71 ( talk) 19:24, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
I am wonder who won in at the end of The Anarchy and whether it is relevant here or not. - Maescam ( talk) 02:54, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
So, the passage
William Adelin got into a small boat and could have escaped but turned back to try to rescue his half-sister, Matilda, when he heard her cries for help. His boat was swamped by others trying to save themselves, and William drowned along with them
How is this known? There was only one survivor and he was pretty busy clinging to a rock. And it was night. That's not even counting the details like the voice was the guy's half sister. Theres's more, like the captain drowning himself etc. I can't read the sources, but my presumption is that they can't be reliable for these facts.
We ought to say "according to legend, first written down in year X, such and such happened..." or something. Unless I'm missing something. Herostratus ( talk) 02:27, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on November 25, 2006, November 25, 2007, November 25, 2008, November 25, 2009, November 25, 2010, November 25, 2012, and November 25, 2016. |
Index
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 12 January 2022 and 13 May 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Joel Garvey (
article contribs).
I would like to try to insert a partial passenger list, with the help of the page editors. I'm somewhat amazed to discover that there are no books written on the White Ship, which had such a dramatic effect on English and French history. So this Wikipedia article really is it. I'm a librarian, so I'll be happy to source the names.
This is one list I've found (not sourced yet, or corrected):
Joel J. Rane ( talk) 08:35, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
I am reverting this edit Revision as of 18:30, 5 March 2021 by user:Jardeheu which changed the date of the sinking from 25th to 24th November 1119.
I am worried that is righting a great wrong because the edit which changes the date added "(and not 25 November 1120, as widely mentioned)." To support the change user:Jardeheu uses as an unreliable source that analyses a primary source: http://closducotentin.over-blog.fr/2020/11/essai-d-enquete-nautique-sur-le-naufrage-de-la-blanche-nef-a-barfleur-au-xiie-siecle.html
The website ( http://closducotentin.over-blog.fr/ ) states on its home page
French | Google translated |
---|---|
Ce site présente les actualités proposées par l'équipe du Pays d'art et d'histoire du Clos du Cotentin. Il contient également des dossiers documentaires consacrés au patrimoine et à l'histoire de Valognes, Bricquebec et Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte. | This site presents the news proposed by the team of the Country of art and history of Clos du Cotentin. It also contains documentary files devoted to the heritage and history of Valognes, Bricquebec and Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte. |
I Checked
And while Mason does not categorically state the sinking took place on 25th he makes it clear that it happened no earlier than the 25th:
but when Henry embarked for England with his son from Barfleur on 25 November 1120, all the king's achievements were overthrown by one of the greatest and most frequently recounted personal tragedies of English history. Henry sailed first, having turned down the offer of a new ship—the White Ship—from Thomas Fitzstephen; the Ætheling and his retinue (reminiscent of the youthful entourage once enjoyed by his uncle Robert Curthose) followed in the new vessel.
So I think that as Wikipedia is a follower and not a place for publishing original research, if the date of the sinking is to be changed it must be done by citing 21st century reliable secondary sources. -- PBS ( talk) 15:19, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
A reputable newspaper has reported this week that a significant portion of likely wreckage has been found in a likely location. 94.30.84.71 ( talk) 19:24, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
I am wonder who won in at the end of The Anarchy and whether it is relevant here or not. - Maescam ( talk) 02:54, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
So, the passage
William Adelin got into a small boat and could have escaped but turned back to try to rescue his half-sister, Matilda, when he heard her cries for help. His boat was swamped by others trying to save themselves, and William drowned along with them
How is this known? There was only one survivor and he was pretty busy clinging to a rock. And it was night. That's not even counting the details like the voice was the guy's half sister. Theres's more, like the captain drowning himself etc. I can't read the sources, but my presumption is that they can't be reliable for these facts.
We ought to say "according to legend, first written down in year X, such and such happened..." or something. Unless I'm missing something. Herostratus ( talk) 02:27, 6 January 2024 (UTC)