This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
I plan to delete this: "The main difference is that, in other Western countries, white separatist argument is theoretical, advocated only by the extreme fringe of society, while in Australia, the government, like South African Apartheid actually implemented white separatistism as a defining basis of national identity. Moreover, while post-Apartheid South African identity is undeniably African and multi racial, the racial makeup of Australia is still predominantly white and Australia is somewhat unsure of its identity which is frequently discussed in terms of reconcilation policy toward Australian Aborigines, immigration policy particularly in term of the treatment of refugees or foreign policy toward its non-white neighbours many of them are ex European colonies." As it's nonsense. Other Western Countries?? Hmmm, Germany? USA? no seperatist history? The identity of South Africa is African? thanks for that. Jumps from identity to race. The rest is just verbose and irrelevant Any objections? 198.208.13.221 04:39, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
You know, for as long as I've had this page on my watchlist, I've noticed that every second day an anonymous Aussie IP address attempts to remove the 'Legacy' section on this article. Any ideas on how to sort this out? Agnte 11:35, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Australia was not the only nation to have a discriminatory immigration policy. The United States, Canada and New Zealand also had racially restrictive immigration policies in the 19th and early 20th centuries.
Or rather, does this even belong here? It sounds strikingly apologist.. -- 24.31.29.171 08:51, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I agree,
I think the policy was discriminatory in a sense but it is a matter of personal opinion. The article shouldn't state it. I think it should be re written to be more balanced.
Racist means you are prejudice and hateful towards people because of their skin color, a racialist means that you believe different races have different attributes. I changed the word "racist" to "racialist" views because having racialist views were common at the time. They didnt restrict the immigration policy strictly out of race hate. Please do not change it. Thanks!
Hi, Tequendamia,
This is extracted from the article: At this time many people believed that there were deep and innate differences between races.
This is the definition of racialism; that is people feeling that certain races have certain differences and attributes. This is not the same as racism. If I were to acknowledge that the NBA is 80 percent black I can conclude that blacks may be better then whites overall, would that make me racist? I think this view can put me in the category of a racialist, not racist. Racialist views were very common throughout the US, Canada, and Australia. Indeed, some people were racist but overall they were racialist views. Even the own definition stated was racialist and it was switched to racist. I just want to make the article more accurate please do not take it down. Thanks,
JJstroker 21:12, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
JJstroker 21:30, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I have also added information about non-white transportation to Australia from the UK. Harrypotter@
There was a time during Queen Victoria that Australia was declared empty land (blacks were not regarded as human, I think some would claim that's racialist). As some people might've claimed that blacks were human then they need it to empty Australia for which they started to carried out racial cleaning. The point made by the English men at that time was, empty land therefore no claim of genocide. The thing went out of control and even at the end of 19 th century there was a day when they killed 3,000 aborigenes in one day. The number of blacks killed in one day was a record they aimed to break. About 100 hundred years ago, Australia was created as a federatin in the English chambers. That was a political decisión aimed at preventing other European powers from claiming the land and also to stop the Chinese immigration. When the artificial creation of Australia was signed in London, they started to kill Chinese who have become wealthy in Australia. Just because they were Chinese,(another raciaist decision, Iguess). There will always be denial of all these events, by racist people who believe in their hearts that discrimination is right and God's will. No I'd like to quote myself again:
-- tequendamia 01:29, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I have tighted up the piece a bit - should we include the Queen Victoria proclamation of 1858? and reinserted racist as regards the policy and chamged racist to racialist later on in the section as it relates to ideology. Harrypotter 16:32, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the policy being racist is clear to you. That is a personal opinion. You have to let others draw their own conclusions and keep this article non baised. As for your feelings about the racism section being generic, I made it so you can change it anyway you please. For instance If I were to say that Hitler was evil, I think we can all agree. But just because that is the common viewpoint it doesnt mean I should say it no matter what the view is. I feel that we have to let the reader draw their own conclusions.
JJstroker 21:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
JJstroker 23:18, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Surely racialism is the foundation of racism. Once racialism is seen as acceptable a gateway to accepting racism is created. for that reason racialism and racism are intrinsically linked.
racism Was a term coined by Leon Trotsky in 1936 with strong negative connotations. The white Australia policy was established in 1901. In its historical context, the white Australia policy could not have been racist. The term racialist represents a more appropriate definition. I also don't believe excessive emphasis on the term racist is helpful for establishing a neutral point of view. Davo698 14:11, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
This paragraph in the article is really horrible. Completely unreferenced, full of weasel words:
-- Alexxx1 ( talk/ contribs) 00:40, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Speaking of uncited sources, why is the Mark Latham "legacy of White Australia" claim not referenced? I came here looking for an exact page in his book where I could find something to this effect. I have found none and I can't anywhere else on the web at this specific moment. -Guest
Ok, I don't know about the definition given in this article. White Australia is the popular term used to describe several policies, especially the Immigration restrictions act. NOT an official term.
I have before me a copy of the immigrations restrictions act. and a copy of the news paper article on the topic from Monday, 30 September, 1901.
Bobby1011 08:06, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Australian government did not explicitly use the term "White Australia" to avoid legal and diplomatic trouble with Britain and to some extent Japan. It was a de facto title of official policy which were used in the discussion of parliament as well as in print media. Clarification of this matter would help. Otherwise, it could be spinned to imply that there were no such thing as "white australia" policy. FWBOarticle 05:30, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I believe I can solve racist/racialist edit war problem with NPOV disambiguation. FWBOarticle
I think the problem of edit war is partly due to desire of some to censor anything which makes Australia looks bad. These views exist and somewhat mainstream as can be seen in my debate with Dr Carr in Archive 1. Therefore it should have its place in the front page provided that it attribution/context is correct. Oh, feel free to correct my Engrish. FWBOarticle
The "racialist" view of WAP do exist. So as far as NPOV goes, it deserve inclusion in the article. Problem is that generally accepted meaning of racism refers to both racialism and racism. If one read the history of racism, one can see that, historically racialism is a part of racism. This racism/racialism distinction is made only within white separatism. Therefore, NPOV require that the word "racialism" is kosher only if the distinction is attributed to such perspective. As far as general public goes, racialism is a form of racism. Keep it NPOV. FWBOarticle
Those wishing to insert 'racialist' instead of 'racist' with regard to the WAP ought to read the Wikipedia section on 'racialism'. In short, racialism is 'scientific racism', as opposed to 'popular racism'. The latter meaning is what the advocates of 'racialism' are objecting to. However, one only needs to skim the pages of a book such as 'The Making of White Australia' by Don Gibb [Victorian Historical Association, 1973] to see that the Australian parliamentarians who framed and passed the WAP were not scientific about their racism in any meaningful sense of the word. Therefore, to be entirely accurate, I'd suggest the word 'political' ought to be inserted prior to the word 'racism' / 'racist' in the Wikipedia sections on Australia's WAP. Alternatively, the term 'White Supremacist' could be inserted instead of 'racist' - the parliamentary transcripts in Gibb's useful book, while not full of racial hatred, are certainly dominated by the view that a) races exist, b) some races are better than others c) the White British race is superior and d) mixing Whites with other races will lower standards - i.e. racial purity is the most desirable way to create a superior civilisation in Australia. There are other views expressed, but these views are the dominant ones.
(Ian, Melbourne)
The article used to state that the natives of Tasmania were exterminated. This is not true. Although the Australian government tried to make everyone think that Truganini was the last person of Tasmanian Native descent,(Is that rascist?) there are plenty of people with Tasmanian Native descent, who even have their own blogs and websites.
Aleksei 09:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Firstly, the extermination of Tasmanian abologinal cluture is complete. Not a single trace of culture remain. No language, no custom, no anything. That firstly qualify as legal definition of genocide which include termination of people as cultural group. Secondly, I know its a bit of sensitive issue of political correctness but using a drop of blood as the basis of identity politics is bit pushing it. Actual extent of survival in DNA term is probably helpful. Among those who are decentant, what the proportion of native blood in their DNA? I hear that that is another very PC issue in Taz because some who claim to be part of native heritage may not actually have heritage in DNA sence. FWBOarticle
"I doubt that it would be possible to establish one now". This statement is incorrect. It is indeed possible to establish exact female ancestory using Mitochondrion analysis. Tracing of male ancestory is less precise but still possible using Y chromosone. And when I say less precise, I'm not talking about several generations. Therefore, the statement, "It is enough to say that people claim Palawah descent", would be patently incorrect in term of science but may not be so in term of identity politics or political correctness. What I understand is that Tasmainan aboligines are refusing to do DNA marking. This might indicate that they may not like the idea of finding out what such testing would reveal.
You also have stated that "As for culture or tradition, there is no generally accepted definition of what such things are". Say, I accept this statement as "truth". Then question is what exact "practices" current Tasmaina Aboligines claim to be be their culture and tradition. I agree that there is no "precise" or "overall" definition of culture or tradition, but at least it have to be something of a practice or knowledge, be it language, religion, cooking, music or dress. Second question is, if they do have certain "practice(s)", what is the "history" of it. Has it been continuously passed on from historical Palawah tribe or is it reinvented, as in the case of modern British Druid. If all practice of historical Palawah tribe is lost, then at least from POV of antholopology, "historical" Palawah (tasmanian aboligines) are dead. Of course, modern decendant of Palawah can claim or invent new culture or identity. But if they somewhat try to imply that their modern reinvention have some "historical" connection, then such claim would be verifiably false. If they claim "spiritual" connection, or they make "you can't totally disprove it so my claim must be true" argument, then, such claim is beyond verification/falsification and should be attributed as such. Oh, btw, after living in both Britain and Australia, I found Australia more culturally British than Britain is (with nicer weather, of course). But that would be another POV minefield. ;D FWBOarticle
Found it by myself. [3] Now the question is, if someone can do this, are they TA by culture? FWBOarticle
While i don't disagree with the view that the WAP was racist you can't condemm individuals for being from their cultural environment rather than your cultural environment. History always has a context whether it be the time of Ceasar or the Swinging Sixties. PMA 16:13, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
You can condem people who supported WAP for being not "fair". :D FWBOarticle
I don't think PMA are making his statement in term of Wikipedia policy. And I was making my statement in term of PMA's claim, hence my :D smiley. Sorry for wasting storage space including this one. ;) FWBOarticle
So the Australians want to rule their own country and not foreigners out breed, out vote, and repress the white people in Australia. What's wrong with that? Cameron Nedland 21:45, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Nothing is wrong with that. I feel that the article has been written very well and is presented from a factual NPOV. Do you feel the article is baised?
Jerry Jones 05:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Just have a look at your post, Cameron. Equating "Australian" with white. Smells like the Policy itself... The post is nice line in spurious argument wrapped in poor grammar and hyperbole. What do they teach you in Kansas? 138 09:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Don't judge the whole state based on what I do. Cameron Nedland 19:54, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Superior civilisation? Isn't making an assumption like that POV? Don't you think that they wanted to keep their european way of life? Can someone explain how that as an opinion is racist? *I couldn't put this under Racism, can someone move it?*
I've removed this sentence twice:
In Australian Society, Southern Europeans may not be regarded as 'White' by many people...
as it was an unsourced addition and it is complete hooey (the opposite of 'wog' is 'anglo', not 'white', for starters). Contentious claims like this should be cited, or nuked on sight. Find me any mainstream Australian expressing this opinion and I will post to the internet an animated .gif of me eating my hat. - ҉ Randwicked ҉ 07:13, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
The word ` Wog' is an English word dating back to the 1920s. My Oxford dictionary (1999 hardback edition) defines it as `a person who is not white' LITERALLY in that wording. In the UK the word `wog' is generally used for more darker skinned people especially black Carribbeans. In Australia it is a mis-nomer from the original definition as here it is often used to identify Southern Europeans and Middle Easterners(are they classed as `white'?-lol!) and anyone of Mediterranean appearance or origin. Most white (North-West European) Australians that I know would not regard a Southern European as `white' IF he/she looked dark.
Look up the word `Chocko' in Wikipedia's `list of ethnic slurs' and it was originally used to identify people of Mediterranean extraction especially Maltese! I remember at the private school I went to , many students of Portuguese, Greek, Maltese and Southern Italian origins were victims of racism. Although rarely occuring some of the exceptionally dark ones were dubbed in an exaggerated way as being `black' by these bullying bigots.
Prior to World War 2, the Departmet of Immigration during the White Australia policy would tighten the bolts on accepting many Southern Europeans, especially those who looked swarthy (I recall this on an ABC 4 Corners documentery called `Admission Impossible' about the White Australia Policy which aired in 1996).
I do not deny that there are many fair white looking people in Southern Europe despite popular stereotypical perception, but consider the following scenario: If an Australian of ENGLISH Anglo-Saxon origin calls an Irish, German or French a `Mick', `Kraut', or `Frog' respectively then it is racist, but most people would not react to it to it with shock and disgust. If the same Anglo Australian referrred to Southern Europeans as being ` Wops', ` Spicks' or ` Dagos', then there would be a different reaction - Why? Because there is a difference.
The Mediterranean Caucasoid phenotype can be found ALL AROUND THE MEDITERRANEAN in Southern Europe, West Asia and (to a lesser degree under varying hues) parts of Nothern India and North Africa. Do you `Mr Randwicked' think that people from the latter three regions would be regarded as white? I did not include the statement about Southern Europeans as `non-white' based on scientific fact, nor is it my opinion (undeniably they are ALL Caucasoid). It was simply based on the social experience I recall and what I have read. Most people I know an in general society immediately percieve `White' as a European of Anglo-Saxon, Nordic, Celtic, Germanic or other kindred origin or appearance. 22 May 2006
What the hell is `hooey'? an Afro-Semitic Maltese word?
Hello to all contributors to this article.
I'm considering spending some time reworking this article. My reasons for doing this are as follows:
I also think that the current article seems to be serving as a magnet for issues which are closer to "A History of Racism in Australia". While I don't think this is completely inappropriate, an awareness of the distinction between the de facto Policy and broader racism should be carried through the article.
All thoughts welcomed. Mattisgoo 13:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Moved this to the bottom of the page. -- bainer ( talk) 13:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Initially born out of British nationalism and later fuelled by anti- Chinese sentiment during the gold rush of the 1850's
Omit use of the term racism.
+In modern Australian politics and media, the term White Australia Policy is typically used metaphorically to refer to Australia's history
Remove racist history and just put history. This follows our agreement and doesn't insert POV. The other edits were fine but please just do not remove important information as well.
71.131.205.216 01:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I have a problem with the caption "Falling birth-rate of native Australians". Unless it refers to Australian aborigines, it should be changed to "Falling birth-rate of white Australians". If it refers to native-born Australians as compared to recent immigrants, then it should be renamed to "Falling birth-rate of native-born Australians". -- Миборовский 03:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to open up a can of worms like has rarely been seen before doing this...
A number of leading figures in the Labour Movement from Beazley downwards have recently been complaining about "jobs going to immigrants while Australian's children cant get jobs."
Thoughts? -- RaiderAspect 05:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you ntennis. Eyeresist, here's a reference, I can get more if you like.
-- RaiderAspect 06:53, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
...fear(!) What does that mean? Medico80 18:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
How many people here know about ethnic nationalsim? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Htra0497 ( talk • contribs) .
The white Australian Policy is a law that was in forced in the 1880's to stop migrants from entering Australia. It started in the British Nationalism and then later on got fuelled by anti-Chinese racism during the gold rush in the 1850's.
The Immigration Restriction Act was a decision of the Parliament of Australia which limited immigration to Australia and formed some basic rules. Illegal immigrants could be shipped out of Australia and immigrants could take a dictation test to become an Australian citizen.
bye
Quote:
Aren't you native born if you are born in Australia? I don't believe half the population will be born outside Australia by 2100, but perhaps half will have no ancestors who lived in Australia in 2007. So what does that mean?-- Niels Ø (noe) 10:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
In Australian society, if a person is not Anglo-Celtic, Germanic or Northern European, then they ARE NOT AUSTRALIAN. Not only that, people who are not of that ancestry are told not to think that they are Austrlalian. It's like America in the 50s. Instead of `what's your ethnic background?' people here ask `What nationality are you? to anyone who doesn't look Nordic.
I wish to question the accuracy of the opening sentence which says there was "no specific official policy" that was called the White Australia policy. I believe at least the Australian Labor Party actually did have a specific policy by that name. Possibly other parties did also. Anyone care to comment? Lester 21:18, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
I plan to delete this: "The main difference is that, in other Western countries, white separatist argument is theoretical, advocated only by the extreme fringe of society, while in Australia, the government, like South African Apartheid actually implemented white separatistism as a defining basis of national identity. Moreover, while post-Apartheid South African identity is undeniably African and multi racial, the racial makeup of Australia is still predominantly white and Australia is somewhat unsure of its identity which is frequently discussed in terms of reconcilation policy toward Australian Aborigines, immigration policy particularly in term of the treatment of refugees or foreign policy toward its non-white neighbours many of them are ex European colonies." As it's nonsense. Other Western Countries?? Hmmm, Germany? USA? no seperatist history? The identity of South Africa is African? thanks for that. Jumps from identity to race. The rest is just verbose and irrelevant Any objections? 198.208.13.221 04:39, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
You know, for as long as I've had this page on my watchlist, I've noticed that every second day an anonymous Aussie IP address attempts to remove the 'Legacy' section on this article. Any ideas on how to sort this out? Agnte 11:35, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Australia was not the only nation to have a discriminatory immigration policy. The United States, Canada and New Zealand also had racially restrictive immigration policies in the 19th and early 20th centuries.
Or rather, does this even belong here? It sounds strikingly apologist.. -- 24.31.29.171 08:51, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I agree,
I think the policy was discriminatory in a sense but it is a matter of personal opinion. The article shouldn't state it. I think it should be re written to be more balanced.
Racist means you are prejudice and hateful towards people because of their skin color, a racialist means that you believe different races have different attributes. I changed the word "racist" to "racialist" views because having racialist views were common at the time. They didnt restrict the immigration policy strictly out of race hate. Please do not change it. Thanks!
Hi, Tequendamia,
This is extracted from the article: At this time many people believed that there were deep and innate differences between races.
This is the definition of racialism; that is people feeling that certain races have certain differences and attributes. This is not the same as racism. If I were to acknowledge that the NBA is 80 percent black I can conclude that blacks may be better then whites overall, would that make me racist? I think this view can put me in the category of a racialist, not racist. Racialist views were very common throughout the US, Canada, and Australia. Indeed, some people were racist but overall they were racialist views. Even the own definition stated was racialist and it was switched to racist. I just want to make the article more accurate please do not take it down. Thanks,
JJstroker 21:12, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
JJstroker 21:30, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I have also added information about non-white transportation to Australia from the UK. Harrypotter@
There was a time during Queen Victoria that Australia was declared empty land (blacks were not regarded as human, I think some would claim that's racialist). As some people might've claimed that blacks were human then they need it to empty Australia for which they started to carried out racial cleaning. The point made by the English men at that time was, empty land therefore no claim of genocide. The thing went out of control and even at the end of 19 th century there was a day when they killed 3,000 aborigenes in one day. The number of blacks killed in one day was a record they aimed to break. About 100 hundred years ago, Australia was created as a federatin in the English chambers. That was a political decisión aimed at preventing other European powers from claiming the land and also to stop the Chinese immigration. When the artificial creation of Australia was signed in London, they started to kill Chinese who have become wealthy in Australia. Just because they were Chinese,(another raciaist decision, Iguess). There will always be denial of all these events, by racist people who believe in their hearts that discrimination is right and God's will. No I'd like to quote myself again:
-- tequendamia 01:29, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I have tighted up the piece a bit - should we include the Queen Victoria proclamation of 1858? and reinserted racist as regards the policy and chamged racist to racialist later on in the section as it relates to ideology. Harrypotter 16:32, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the policy being racist is clear to you. That is a personal opinion. You have to let others draw their own conclusions and keep this article non baised. As for your feelings about the racism section being generic, I made it so you can change it anyway you please. For instance If I were to say that Hitler was evil, I think we can all agree. But just because that is the common viewpoint it doesnt mean I should say it no matter what the view is. I feel that we have to let the reader draw their own conclusions.
JJstroker 21:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
JJstroker 23:18, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Surely racialism is the foundation of racism. Once racialism is seen as acceptable a gateway to accepting racism is created. for that reason racialism and racism are intrinsically linked.
racism Was a term coined by Leon Trotsky in 1936 with strong negative connotations. The white Australia policy was established in 1901. In its historical context, the white Australia policy could not have been racist. The term racialist represents a more appropriate definition. I also don't believe excessive emphasis on the term racist is helpful for establishing a neutral point of view. Davo698 14:11, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
This paragraph in the article is really horrible. Completely unreferenced, full of weasel words:
-- Alexxx1 ( talk/ contribs) 00:40, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Speaking of uncited sources, why is the Mark Latham "legacy of White Australia" claim not referenced? I came here looking for an exact page in his book where I could find something to this effect. I have found none and I can't anywhere else on the web at this specific moment. -Guest
Ok, I don't know about the definition given in this article. White Australia is the popular term used to describe several policies, especially the Immigration restrictions act. NOT an official term.
I have before me a copy of the immigrations restrictions act. and a copy of the news paper article on the topic from Monday, 30 September, 1901.
Bobby1011 08:06, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Australian government did not explicitly use the term "White Australia" to avoid legal and diplomatic trouble with Britain and to some extent Japan. It was a de facto title of official policy which were used in the discussion of parliament as well as in print media. Clarification of this matter would help. Otherwise, it could be spinned to imply that there were no such thing as "white australia" policy. FWBOarticle 05:30, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I believe I can solve racist/racialist edit war problem with NPOV disambiguation. FWBOarticle
I think the problem of edit war is partly due to desire of some to censor anything which makes Australia looks bad. These views exist and somewhat mainstream as can be seen in my debate with Dr Carr in Archive 1. Therefore it should have its place in the front page provided that it attribution/context is correct. Oh, feel free to correct my Engrish. FWBOarticle
The "racialist" view of WAP do exist. So as far as NPOV goes, it deserve inclusion in the article. Problem is that generally accepted meaning of racism refers to both racialism and racism. If one read the history of racism, one can see that, historically racialism is a part of racism. This racism/racialism distinction is made only within white separatism. Therefore, NPOV require that the word "racialism" is kosher only if the distinction is attributed to such perspective. As far as general public goes, racialism is a form of racism. Keep it NPOV. FWBOarticle
Those wishing to insert 'racialist' instead of 'racist' with regard to the WAP ought to read the Wikipedia section on 'racialism'. In short, racialism is 'scientific racism', as opposed to 'popular racism'. The latter meaning is what the advocates of 'racialism' are objecting to. However, one only needs to skim the pages of a book such as 'The Making of White Australia' by Don Gibb [Victorian Historical Association, 1973] to see that the Australian parliamentarians who framed and passed the WAP were not scientific about their racism in any meaningful sense of the word. Therefore, to be entirely accurate, I'd suggest the word 'political' ought to be inserted prior to the word 'racism' / 'racist' in the Wikipedia sections on Australia's WAP. Alternatively, the term 'White Supremacist' could be inserted instead of 'racist' - the parliamentary transcripts in Gibb's useful book, while not full of racial hatred, are certainly dominated by the view that a) races exist, b) some races are better than others c) the White British race is superior and d) mixing Whites with other races will lower standards - i.e. racial purity is the most desirable way to create a superior civilisation in Australia. There are other views expressed, but these views are the dominant ones.
(Ian, Melbourne)
The article used to state that the natives of Tasmania were exterminated. This is not true. Although the Australian government tried to make everyone think that Truganini was the last person of Tasmanian Native descent,(Is that rascist?) there are plenty of people with Tasmanian Native descent, who even have their own blogs and websites.
Aleksei 09:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Firstly, the extermination of Tasmanian abologinal cluture is complete. Not a single trace of culture remain. No language, no custom, no anything. That firstly qualify as legal definition of genocide which include termination of people as cultural group. Secondly, I know its a bit of sensitive issue of political correctness but using a drop of blood as the basis of identity politics is bit pushing it. Actual extent of survival in DNA term is probably helpful. Among those who are decentant, what the proportion of native blood in their DNA? I hear that that is another very PC issue in Taz because some who claim to be part of native heritage may not actually have heritage in DNA sence. FWBOarticle
"I doubt that it would be possible to establish one now". This statement is incorrect. It is indeed possible to establish exact female ancestory using Mitochondrion analysis. Tracing of male ancestory is less precise but still possible using Y chromosone. And when I say less precise, I'm not talking about several generations. Therefore, the statement, "It is enough to say that people claim Palawah descent", would be patently incorrect in term of science but may not be so in term of identity politics or political correctness. What I understand is that Tasmainan aboligines are refusing to do DNA marking. This might indicate that they may not like the idea of finding out what such testing would reveal.
You also have stated that "As for culture or tradition, there is no generally accepted definition of what such things are". Say, I accept this statement as "truth". Then question is what exact "practices" current Tasmaina Aboligines claim to be be their culture and tradition. I agree that there is no "precise" or "overall" definition of culture or tradition, but at least it have to be something of a practice or knowledge, be it language, religion, cooking, music or dress. Second question is, if they do have certain "practice(s)", what is the "history" of it. Has it been continuously passed on from historical Palawah tribe or is it reinvented, as in the case of modern British Druid. If all practice of historical Palawah tribe is lost, then at least from POV of antholopology, "historical" Palawah (tasmanian aboligines) are dead. Of course, modern decendant of Palawah can claim or invent new culture or identity. But if they somewhat try to imply that their modern reinvention have some "historical" connection, then such claim would be verifiably false. If they claim "spiritual" connection, or they make "you can't totally disprove it so my claim must be true" argument, then, such claim is beyond verification/falsification and should be attributed as such. Oh, btw, after living in both Britain and Australia, I found Australia more culturally British than Britain is (with nicer weather, of course). But that would be another POV minefield. ;D FWBOarticle
Found it by myself. [3] Now the question is, if someone can do this, are they TA by culture? FWBOarticle
While i don't disagree with the view that the WAP was racist you can't condemm individuals for being from their cultural environment rather than your cultural environment. History always has a context whether it be the time of Ceasar or the Swinging Sixties. PMA 16:13, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
You can condem people who supported WAP for being not "fair". :D FWBOarticle
I don't think PMA are making his statement in term of Wikipedia policy. And I was making my statement in term of PMA's claim, hence my :D smiley. Sorry for wasting storage space including this one. ;) FWBOarticle
So the Australians want to rule their own country and not foreigners out breed, out vote, and repress the white people in Australia. What's wrong with that? Cameron Nedland 21:45, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Nothing is wrong with that. I feel that the article has been written very well and is presented from a factual NPOV. Do you feel the article is baised?
Jerry Jones 05:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Just have a look at your post, Cameron. Equating "Australian" with white. Smells like the Policy itself... The post is nice line in spurious argument wrapped in poor grammar and hyperbole. What do they teach you in Kansas? 138 09:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Don't judge the whole state based on what I do. Cameron Nedland 19:54, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Superior civilisation? Isn't making an assumption like that POV? Don't you think that they wanted to keep their european way of life? Can someone explain how that as an opinion is racist? *I couldn't put this under Racism, can someone move it?*
I've removed this sentence twice:
In Australian Society, Southern Europeans may not be regarded as 'White' by many people...
as it was an unsourced addition and it is complete hooey (the opposite of 'wog' is 'anglo', not 'white', for starters). Contentious claims like this should be cited, or nuked on sight. Find me any mainstream Australian expressing this opinion and I will post to the internet an animated .gif of me eating my hat. - ҉ Randwicked ҉ 07:13, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
The word ` Wog' is an English word dating back to the 1920s. My Oxford dictionary (1999 hardback edition) defines it as `a person who is not white' LITERALLY in that wording. In the UK the word `wog' is generally used for more darker skinned people especially black Carribbeans. In Australia it is a mis-nomer from the original definition as here it is often used to identify Southern Europeans and Middle Easterners(are they classed as `white'?-lol!) and anyone of Mediterranean appearance or origin. Most white (North-West European) Australians that I know would not regard a Southern European as `white' IF he/she looked dark.
Look up the word `Chocko' in Wikipedia's `list of ethnic slurs' and it was originally used to identify people of Mediterranean extraction especially Maltese! I remember at the private school I went to , many students of Portuguese, Greek, Maltese and Southern Italian origins were victims of racism. Although rarely occuring some of the exceptionally dark ones were dubbed in an exaggerated way as being `black' by these bullying bigots.
Prior to World War 2, the Departmet of Immigration during the White Australia policy would tighten the bolts on accepting many Southern Europeans, especially those who looked swarthy (I recall this on an ABC 4 Corners documentery called `Admission Impossible' about the White Australia Policy which aired in 1996).
I do not deny that there are many fair white looking people in Southern Europe despite popular stereotypical perception, but consider the following scenario: If an Australian of ENGLISH Anglo-Saxon origin calls an Irish, German or French a `Mick', `Kraut', or `Frog' respectively then it is racist, but most people would not react to it to it with shock and disgust. If the same Anglo Australian referrred to Southern Europeans as being ` Wops', ` Spicks' or ` Dagos', then there would be a different reaction - Why? Because there is a difference.
The Mediterranean Caucasoid phenotype can be found ALL AROUND THE MEDITERRANEAN in Southern Europe, West Asia and (to a lesser degree under varying hues) parts of Nothern India and North Africa. Do you `Mr Randwicked' think that people from the latter three regions would be regarded as white? I did not include the statement about Southern Europeans as `non-white' based on scientific fact, nor is it my opinion (undeniably they are ALL Caucasoid). It was simply based on the social experience I recall and what I have read. Most people I know an in general society immediately percieve `White' as a European of Anglo-Saxon, Nordic, Celtic, Germanic or other kindred origin or appearance. 22 May 2006
What the hell is `hooey'? an Afro-Semitic Maltese word?
Hello to all contributors to this article.
I'm considering spending some time reworking this article. My reasons for doing this are as follows:
I also think that the current article seems to be serving as a magnet for issues which are closer to "A History of Racism in Australia". While I don't think this is completely inappropriate, an awareness of the distinction between the de facto Policy and broader racism should be carried through the article.
All thoughts welcomed. Mattisgoo 13:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Moved this to the bottom of the page. -- bainer ( talk) 13:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Initially born out of British nationalism and later fuelled by anti- Chinese sentiment during the gold rush of the 1850's
Omit use of the term racism.
+In modern Australian politics and media, the term White Australia Policy is typically used metaphorically to refer to Australia's history
Remove racist history and just put history. This follows our agreement and doesn't insert POV. The other edits were fine but please just do not remove important information as well.
71.131.205.216 01:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I have a problem with the caption "Falling birth-rate of native Australians". Unless it refers to Australian aborigines, it should be changed to "Falling birth-rate of white Australians". If it refers to native-born Australians as compared to recent immigrants, then it should be renamed to "Falling birth-rate of native-born Australians". -- Миборовский 03:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to open up a can of worms like has rarely been seen before doing this...
A number of leading figures in the Labour Movement from Beazley downwards have recently been complaining about "jobs going to immigrants while Australian's children cant get jobs."
Thoughts? -- RaiderAspect 05:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you ntennis. Eyeresist, here's a reference, I can get more if you like.
-- RaiderAspect 06:53, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
...fear(!) What does that mean? Medico80 18:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
How many people here know about ethnic nationalsim? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Htra0497 ( talk • contribs) .
The white Australian Policy is a law that was in forced in the 1880's to stop migrants from entering Australia. It started in the British Nationalism and then later on got fuelled by anti-Chinese racism during the gold rush in the 1850's.
The Immigration Restriction Act was a decision of the Parliament of Australia which limited immigration to Australia and formed some basic rules. Illegal immigrants could be shipped out of Australia and immigrants could take a dictation test to become an Australian citizen.
bye
Quote:
Aren't you native born if you are born in Australia? I don't believe half the population will be born outside Australia by 2100, but perhaps half will have no ancestors who lived in Australia in 2007. So what does that mean?-- Niels Ø (noe) 10:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
In Australian society, if a person is not Anglo-Celtic, Germanic or Northern European, then they ARE NOT AUSTRALIAN. Not only that, people who are not of that ancestry are told not to think that they are Austrlalian. It's like America in the 50s. Instead of `what's your ethnic background?' people here ask `What nationality are you? to anyone who doesn't look Nordic.
I wish to question the accuracy of the opening sentence which says there was "no specific official policy" that was called the White Australia policy. I believe at least the Australian Labor Party actually did have a specific policy by that name. Possibly other parties did also. Anyone care to comment? Lester 21:18, 16 December 2007 (UTC)