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I believe that Wharton school should be introduced as both "United States' first business school" and world's first collegiate one.
My basic thesis is the fact that being the world's first collegiate school does not logically imply or include also being "US first business school", because 'collegiate' is a sub-segment of the term 'business school'.
Imagine this example: a) The world’s oldest laptop (say from 1990) is in San Francisco; b) United States’ oldest desktop computer (say from 1980) is in New York.
Now if you combine the two cases, you have that both the world's oldest laptop is in San Francisco and that the US' oldest computer is in New York. I.e. the two statements are not mutually exclusive.
Consequently looking at the business schools case, you could very possibly have a graduate business school founded in 1850 in the US and then Wharton in 1881 as the world's first collegiate school, in which case Wharton would not be anymore US oldest business school. And this is what the article seems to imply if you take off US first business school, which is why I find logically wrong to mention only one of the two.
Hence, I think that the two statements indicate two important and different characteristics in describing this item that are not implied by each other. In particular for a rigorous encyclopedia such descriptive parts should be integrated in presenting the subject of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tabrin-mabra ( talk • contribs) 20:53, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_Manfredini (2nd oldest in the world, but oldest Italian in the world, whereas MG is oldest Italian in Italy), or even: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiroemon_Kimura (oldest living man, oldest living person in Japan and in Asia, first Japanese to be oldest living man, oldest Asian person ever to have lived in three centuries, plus another 5 or 6 categorization...) That is to say Wikipedia should scientifically report all the relevant facts, and which one is the oldest business school in the United States is a relevant fact from any point of view, and above all from the historical one. US was the leading force of the industrial revolution in 1850-1900 and whether that had an influence on the academia is by any means relevant and should be made available to everyone. It is even more relevant than world's first collegiate business school, because to some extent this does not link it to anything of historical relevance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Luigikort ( talk • contribs) 00:47, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Nathan Johnson ( talk) 00:49, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
Some of the edits to this article are being made by one editor (or group of editors) establishing multiple accounts, making a few edits and discarding the account. The issue is more prominent at List of Wharton School alumni. I am beginning to address the issue at Talk:List_of_Wharton_School_alumni#Sock_SPA but wouldn't be surprised if the issue spills over here. - SummerPhD ( talk) 13:30, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
I've removed several lines from the article that I believe violate WP:NPOV -- mostly related to WP:SYNTHESIS, WP:WEASEL, and WP:BOOSTER -- and relying solely upon Wharton sources. (Examples, "At the time of the Wharton School's founding, the idea of a collegiate business school was a novel concept.The Wharton School's rise transformed the study of business from a trade into a rigorous academic and research-intensive endeavor.... The Wharton School and its faculty, comprising many Nobel laureates, are accredited with pioneering and shaping emerging fields such as accounting, finance, econometrics, entrepreneurship, business law, management, marketing, insurance, real estate and operations and information management.") Per Wikipedia:College_and_university_article_guidelines#Article_structure, the History section should include specific and noteworthy events. — Eustress 14:31, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
I think all that can be reliably supported for now is that Wharton was the first b-school in the U.S. (consistent with listing at Business_school#Notable_firsts), which I've updated the article to reflect. If other reliable sources are identified saying differently, please share them here so we can review. — Eustress 23:40, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
@ RRoyce624 Where in the source you provided ( Wharton Alumni Mag) does it say Wharton created CAPM? — Eustress 23:46, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Wharton alumnus Michael Milken is in fact largely attributed with pioneering junk bonds (see NYT and BI), but it wasn't the Wharton School that created them. If he were faculty during the creation, perhaps it would be appropriate for History section, but Alumni section seems more appropriate (as long as you don't forget to mention Milken's multiple fraud convictions). Again, the danger of relying on primary sources. — Eustress 23:52, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Regarding notability, can we remove this already? "Wharton faculty created the world's first MBA/MA program in international management." No independent source, and so what? — Eustress 23:55, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
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It's stated here that the current article title Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania is a name I rarely see in print compared to simply "Wharton Business School" or such.
Is there a more common name that would be more appropriate as the article name? Andrewa ( talk) 20:53, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
The section on Wharton's undergraduate program states that you cannot transfer into Wharton. This is currently not the case. [1] In fact, the program has one very famous alumni who did just that, as far back as the '60s; President Donald J. Trump transferred from Fordham to Wharton's undergraduate program, around 1966, entering as a junior. [2]
Theologikal ( talk) 00:35, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
I found this a bit confusing: "the program was changed with liberal arts education doubling to almost half of the curriculum [...] Since then, Wharton faculty have focused exclusively on business education." It seems to me to be a contradiction or at the very least non-intuitive: I am interpreting that 'students of the Wharton school study with non-Wharton faculty'. I think maybe some change in the wording may help here.-- User:Dwarf Kirlston - talk 21:42, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
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edit request to
Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
For consistency throughout the M7 school wikipedia pages, "Northwestern" should be added in front of "Kellogg" alongside "Chicago Booth" and "MIT Sloan" in the last sentence of the introduction. In addition, "UPenn Wharton" is missing as one of the M7 schools listed in the statement. M7bswiki ( talk) 02:41, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
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edit request to
Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the "History" section, please replace the link to the Industrial Revolution with a link to the Second Industrial Revolution. The (first) Revolution was the transition to new manufacturing processes in the period from about 1760 to sometime between 1820 and 1840, while the second was a phase of rapid industrialization in the final third of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th. The latter, not the former, is the context for something that was occurring in 1881. 208.95.51.38 ( talk) 16:11, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
The CEO of GE is now a Wharton instead of Harvard alum, but I'm unable to edit the document due to the edit restrictions. Fortune 100s with Wharton CEOs:
Google J&J General Dynamics Oracle GE — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evancrouse ( talk • contribs) 14:38, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
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Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "Wharton's MBA program is ranked No. 3 in the world according to Business Insider[6], No. 1 in the United States according to Forbes[7], and is No. 3 in the United States according to the 2019 U.S. News & World Report ranking.[8] Meanwhile, Wharton's MBA for Executives and undergraduate programs are also ranked No. 2 in the United States by the same publication."
to
"The undergraduate program at the Wharton School has been ranked number one by U.S. News & World Report every single year since inception. Wharton's MBA program is ranked No. 1 in the United States according to Forbes[7] and No. 3 in the United States according to the 2019 U.S. News & World Report ranking.[8] Meanwhile, Wharton's MBA for Executives is ranked No.2 in the United States by the same publication."
Reason: The Business Insiders MBA Ranking is just an exact republishing of the U.S New Resport ranking, so they're duplicates. Wharton's undergraduate is not ranked No.2, it is ranked No.1 (every year since inception nonetheless), so the original copy is wrong.
173.183.116.162 (
talk)
00:35, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
Hello all,
This page really looks nicely developed already. To not mess with processes / discussions I might have missed, I wanted to quickly write here, before I start any work:
Following my initial research, there's quite a few notable faculty member and alumni still missing. I would therefore like to add a "notable faculty" section ( usually combined with the Alumni as a general "Notable people" section) and create a seperate list of notable faculty. This could, in the mid-term, then be combinded with the current alumni list to a "List of notable people". Or the two may remain seperate.
Let me know if there are any thoughts, objections or other ideas we could take into consideration here. Many thanks for all of your work on this excellent page! Looking forward to taking it a step further with all of you.
Cheers, -- Ruhri Jörg 05:09, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Donald Trump is listed in the introduction as an alumnus of the MBA program. He is not. He received a BS from Wharton. It's not obvious to me how to edit the introduction to correct this error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.113.120.228 ( talk) 23:44, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
The lead sentence starts:
Somewhere in the MoS (that I can't immediately find), it says not to list abbreviated forms of the name that common sense says would exist. This would eliminate the phrase, ", The Wharton School or simply Wharton", reducing the size of this lengthy lead sentence. Any objections to this removal? —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 09:33, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
The fourth paragraph (part of the third before I split it) in the lead lists a bunch of notable alumni and companies whose CEOs are alumni, some of which I don't immediately recognize (and I was a securities trader). This seems like far too much detail for the lead; even the Alumni section has been relocated to a separate article. Can we drop this paragraph altogether, or trim it to a handful of names using some criteria, like page views for the top 4 people and market cap for the top 4 companies? How about just moving the whole thing to the Alumni section, except maybe the lead clause "Wharton has over 95,000 alumni in 153 countries"? —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 09:39, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
San Francisco has a Wharton campus, should this be included in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MySixthSense ( talk • contribs) 00:03, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
An unregistered editor has begun an edit war to expand the lede sentence so it explicitly says that the school has undergraduate and graduate programs. The sentence is already long and unwieldy so we should be very wary of making it even longer. Further, the first sentence in the paragraph that follows makes this exact same point; why do we need to make it twice in the lede? ElKevbo ( talk) 18:44, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Wharton School article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
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![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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|
I believe that Wharton school should be introduced as both "United States' first business school" and world's first collegiate one.
My basic thesis is the fact that being the world's first collegiate school does not logically imply or include also being "US first business school", because 'collegiate' is a sub-segment of the term 'business school'.
Imagine this example: a) The world’s oldest laptop (say from 1990) is in San Francisco; b) United States’ oldest desktop computer (say from 1980) is in New York.
Now if you combine the two cases, you have that both the world's oldest laptop is in San Francisco and that the US' oldest computer is in New York. I.e. the two statements are not mutually exclusive.
Consequently looking at the business schools case, you could very possibly have a graduate business school founded in 1850 in the US and then Wharton in 1881 as the world's first collegiate school, in which case Wharton would not be anymore US oldest business school. And this is what the article seems to imply if you take off US first business school, which is why I find logically wrong to mention only one of the two.
Hence, I think that the two statements indicate two important and different characteristics in describing this item that are not implied by each other. In particular for a rigorous encyclopedia such descriptive parts should be integrated in presenting the subject of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tabrin-mabra ( talk • contribs) 20:53, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_Manfredini (2nd oldest in the world, but oldest Italian in the world, whereas MG is oldest Italian in Italy), or even: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiroemon_Kimura (oldest living man, oldest living person in Japan and in Asia, first Japanese to be oldest living man, oldest Asian person ever to have lived in three centuries, plus another 5 or 6 categorization...) That is to say Wikipedia should scientifically report all the relevant facts, and which one is the oldest business school in the United States is a relevant fact from any point of view, and above all from the historical one. US was the leading force of the industrial revolution in 1850-1900 and whether that had an influence on the academia is by any means relevant and should be made available to everyone. It is even more relevant than world's first collegiate business school, because to some extent this does not link it to anything of historical relevance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Luigikort ( talk • contribs) 00:47, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Nathan Johnson ( talk) 00:49, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
Some of the edits to this article are being made by one editor (or group of editors) establishing multiple accounts, making a few edits and discarding the account. The issue is more prominent at List of Wharton School alumni. I am beginning to address the issue at Talk:List_of_Wharton_School_alumni#Sock_SPA but wouldn't be surprised if the issue spills over here. - SummerPhD ( talk) 13:30, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
I've removed several lines from the article that I believe violate WP:NPOV -- mostly related to WP:SYNTHESIS, WP:WEASEL, and WP:BOOSTER -- and relying solely upon Wharton sources. (Examples, "At the time of the Wharton School's founding, the idea of a collegiate business school was a novel concept.The Wharton School's rise transformed the study of business from a trade into a rigorous academic and research-intensive endeavor.... The Wharton School and its faculty, comprising many Nobel laureates, are accredited with pioneering and shaping emerging fields such as accounting, finance, econometrics, entrepreneurship, business law, management, marketing, insurance, real estate and operations and information management.") Per Wikipedia:College_and_university_article_guidelines#Article_structure, the History section should include specific and noteworthy events. — Eustress 14:31, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
I think all that can be reliably supported for now is that Wharton was the first b-school in the U.S. (consistent with listing at Business_school#Notable_firsts), which I've updated the article to reflect. If other reliable sources are identified saying differently, please share them here so we can review. — Eustress 23:40, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
@ RRoyce624 Where in the source you provided ( Wharton Alumni Mag) does it say Wharton created CAPM? — Eustress 23:46, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Wharton alumnus Michael Milken is in fact largely attributed with pioneering junk bonds (see NYT and BI), but it wasn't the Wharton School that created them. If he were faculty during the creation, perhaps it would be appropriate for History section, but Alumni section seems more appropriate (as long as you don't forget to mention Milken's multiple fraud convictions). Again, the danger of relying on primary sources. — Eustress 23:52, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Regarding notability, can we remove this already? "Wharton faculty created the world's first MBA/MA program in international management." No independent source, and so what? — Eustress 23:55, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:37, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
It's stated here that the current article title Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania is a name I rarely see in print compared to simply "Wharton Business School" or such.
Is there a more common name that would be more appropriate as the article name? Andrewa ( talk) 20:53, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
The section on Wharton's undergraduate program states that you cannot transfer into Wharton. This is currently not the case. [1] In fact, the program has one very famous alumni who did just that, as far back as the '60s; President Donald J. Trump transferred from Fordham to Wharton's undergraduate program, around 1966, entering as a junior. [2]
Theologikal ( talk) 00:35, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
I found this a bit confusing: "the program was changed with liberal arts education doubling to almost half of the curriculum [...] Since then, Wharton faculty have focused exclusively on business education." It seems to me to be a contradiction or at the very least non-intuitive: I am interpreting that 'students of the Wharton school study with non-Wharton faculty'. I think maybe some change in the wording may help here.-- User:Dwarf Kirlston - talk 21:42, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
For consistency throughout the M7 school wikipedia pages, "Northwestern" should be added in front of "Kellogg" alongside "Chicago Booth" and "MIT Sloan" in the last sentence of the introduction. In addition, "UPenn Wharton" is missing as one of the M7 schools listed in the statement. M7bswiki ( talk) 02:41, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the "History" section, please replace the link to the Industrial Revolution with a link to the Second Industrial Revolution. The (first) Revolution was the transition to new manufacturing processes in the period from about 1760 to sometime between 1820 and 1840, while the second was a phase of rapid industrialization in the final third of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th. The latter, not the former, is the context for something that was occurring in 1881. 208.95.51.38 ( talk) 16:11, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
The CEO of GE is now a Wharton instead of Harvard alum, but I'm unable to edit the document due to the edit restrictions. Fortune 100s with Wharton CEOs:
Google J&J General Dynamics Oracle GE — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evancrouse ( talk • contribs) 14:38, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "Wharton's MBA program is ranked No. 3 in the world according to Business Insider[6], No. 1 in the United States according to Forbes[7], and is No. 3 in the United States according to the 2019 U.S. News & World Report ranking.[8] Meanwhile, Wharton's MBA for Executives and undergraduate programs are also ranked No. 2 in the United States by the same publication."
to
"The undergraduate program at the Wharton School has been ranked number one by U.S. News & World Report every single year since inception. Wharton's MBA program is ranked No. 1 in the United States according to Forbes[7] and No. 3 in the United States according to the 2019 U.S. News & World Report ranking.[8] Meanwhile, Wharton's MBA for Executives is ranked No.2 in the United States by the same publication."
Reason: The Business Insiders MBA Ranking is just an exact republishing of the U.S New Resport ranking, so they're duplicates. Wharton's undergraduate is not ranked No.2, it is ranked No.1 (every year since inception nonetheless), so the original copy is wrong.
173.183.116.162 (
talk)
00:35, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
Hello all,
This page really looks nicely developed already. To not mess with processes / discussions I might have missed, I wanted to quickly write here, before I start any work:
Following my initial research, there's quite a few notable faculty member and alumni still missing. I would therefore like to add a "notable faculty" section ( usually combined with the Alumni as a general "Notable people" section) and create a seperate list of notable faculty. This could, in the mid-term, then be combinded with the current alumni list to a "List of notable people". Or the two may remain seperate.
Let me know if there are any thoughts, objections or other ideas we could take into consideration here. Many thanks for all of your work on this excellent page! Looking forward to taking it a step further with all of you.
Cheers, -- Ruhri Jörg 05:09, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Donald Trump is listed in the introduction as an alumnus of the MBA program. He is not. He received a BS from Wharton. It's not obvious to me how to edit the introduction to correct this error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.113.120.228 ( talk) 23:44, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
The lead sentence starts:
Somewhere in the MoS (that I can't immediately find), it says not to list abbreviated forms of the name that common sense says would exist. This would eliminate the phrase, ", The Wharton School or simply Wharton", reducing the size of this lengthy lead sentence. Any objections to this removal? —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 09:33, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
The fourth paragraph (part of the third before I split it) in the lead lists a bunch of notable alumni and companies whose CEOs are alumni, some of which I don't immediately recognize (and I was a securities trader). This seems like far too much detail for the lead; even the Alumni section has been relocated to a separate article. Can we drop this paragraph altogether, or trim it to a handful of names using some criteria, like page views for the top 4 people and market cap for the top 4 companies? How about just moving the whole thing to the Alumni section, except maybe the lead clause "Wharton has over 95,000 alumni in 153 countries"? —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 09:39, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
San Francisco has a Wharton campus, should this be included in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MySixthSense ( talk • contribs) 00:03, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
An unregistered editor has begun an edit war to expand the lede sentence so it explicitly says that the school has undergraduate and graduate programs. The sentence is already long and unwieldy so we should be very wary of making it even longer. Further, the first sentence in the paragraph that follows makes this exact same point; why do we need to make it twice in the lede? ElKevbo ( talk) 18:44, 1 May 2020 (UTC)