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I didn't look at the article history when I did the move, and the page move log didn't show a move back. I was puzzled to see that it had already been moved but went ahead. I see that User:Davey2010 moved it back a few days ago citing WP:COMMONNAME and numerous discussions elsewhere. A Google search shows over 100,000 hits for "Intu Derby" and a search on Google news shows 13 hits for Intu, only 1 for Westfield and that is mentioning the opening of Westfield Derby in 2007. Anyone searching using the Westfield name will end up on the Intu Derby page. I couldn't find "numerous discussions elsewhere" and they really should have been here or linked here (I did check here before I did the move). I'm convinced that common name and common sense support the move, but if someone starts an RM and there's a decision to move it back, fine. Dougweller ( talk) 10:48, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
I moved this too. Although some people locally call it the Westfield (and never Westfield Derby) for the common name, others do not. It seems wrong to call it the name of the previous branded company. As for citing sources, well there is plenty of photographic evidence. I am not sure anyone can say the way of citing what a popular common name is for this. Printed media and roadsigns, etc will have it as intu, people who live in Derby will refer to it in different ways mostly just the shopping centre but if forced to give it a name some use Westfield and some less use Intu. If asked what is the "correct" name I suspect intu would be a clear winner.
I see this a little less problematic than lakeside, etc. even with less time rebranding as it refers to a previous company. Rovastar ( talk) 17:53, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Returning to this issue again: I'm in favour of moving the page to Intu Derby; calling it Westfield just looks out of date and wrong. I know the consensus about Intu centres generally is to use the "traditional", non-corporate name; but Derby, of course, has a problem – it doesn't have one. I think the best way to look at it is to consider the approach we use for sponsored stadiums: we use traditional, pre-sponsor names where they exist, e.g. Pride Park Stadium is the article title rather than iPro Stadium; but stadiums without established non-sponsored names use the sponsor for the title and have to change along with it, e.g. King Power Stadium. So, similarly, I would suggest Braehead rather than "Intu Braehead" – YES – but in this case "Intu Derby" – using the current corporate branding instead of what we have now, an outdated corporate branding. Jellyman ( talk) 22:19, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. - Okie dokie that didn't go as well as I'd hoped, For some reason I assumed consensus would perhaps change, Anyway I apologize for essentially wasting everyones time here. – Davey2010 Talk 00:20, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be
renamed and moved.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
In 2014 consensus was not to change the names to "Intu X" [1] [2] [3], Well times change and it does kinda make sense to move them, Some here are using previous company names (IE Westfield Derby) so to make everything consistent and to a point "with the times" I propose moving all to Intu X, (There was also a discussion on my talkpage but that's now in the 2014 archives which is extremely long so to save pcs crashing I won't link it!) – Davey2010 Talk 23:02, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
We don't need consistency. However, a Google News search shows Intu Derby gets a lot more hits then Westfield Derby in the last year. Doug Weller ( talk) 09:51, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
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The centre is named Intu Derby, that's what the sign out the front says, the website etc, so the article name should reflect. The contract of sale would have required a rebranding within a period of time and hence it was done. If the reason for not renaming is that Intu Derby is seen as promoting a corporate brand, then the same problem exists with having the article named Westfield Derby, given that it is Westfield as in Westfield Corporation. So what we have is an oudated corporate brand versus a current corporate brand.
While the argument put above to retain generic names for examples like Trafford Centre is valid where one exists, there isn't one for this centre. The last generic name, Eagle Centre, hasn't been used for nearly a decade and fails WP:COMMONNAME. Bit like saying we should keep Sri Lanka as Ceylon. While I agree items of public infrastructure should retain generic rather than commercial names, e.g. Pride Park Stadium not iPro Stadium, in the case of a shopping centre, it is privately owned and it is the owners prerogative to name as they see fit. Like when Derby City Transport was sold, it was the owner's right to rebrand it, hence the article is named Arriva Derby.
The article was rewritten back in October 2014 to reflect the Intu rebranding and has been accepted since, it just seems the final step of renaming was not followed through.
Pinging editors Peter James, Dougweller Jellyman, Rovastar, Anthony Appleyard, Charles and Davey2010 who have previously expressed an opinion on the matter. Greenrocket8 ( talk) 04:28, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Article name */ i believe there are legitimate claims to rename the article of this page. The arguments for renaming the other "intu" centres does not apply for this shopping centre. Although it is a commercial name, it is still a current commercial name and has valid grounds in terms of COMMONNAME naming rights. There has been two years of ownership and the article needs to represent the rebranding in the article name. Common name and common sense both support this article name change move. Web searches, literature all suggest the common name is definitely now intu Derby. How long are we going to leave this outdated for? jontyb ( talk)
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The result of the move request was: Unopposed move ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 03:53, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Intu Derby → Derbion – As shown and sourced in the article, the shopping centre has now been renamed, the former name is no longer suitable as Intu no longer own it. Didn't want to move it without discussion as previous moves have been subject to lengthy debate. Jellyman ( talk) 07:51, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
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The image Image:The Westfield Group logo.svg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 09:30, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
I didn't look at the article history when I did the move, and the page move log didn't show a move back. I was puzzled to see that it had already been moved but went ahead. I see that User:Davey2010 moved it back a few days ago citing WP:COMMONNAME and numerous discussions elsewhere. A Google search shows over 100,000 hits for "Intu Derby" and a search on Google news shows 13 hits for Intu, only 1 for Westfield and that is mentioning the opening of Westfield Derby in 2007. Anyone searching using the Westfield name will end up on the Intu Derby page. I couldn't find "numerous discussions elsewhere" and they really should have been here or linked here (I did check here before I did the move). I'm convinced that common name and common sense support the move, but if someone starts an RM and there's a decision to move it back, fine. Dougweller ( talk) 10:48, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
I moved this too. Although some people locally call it the Westfield (and never Westfield Derby) for the common name, others do not. It seems wrong to call it the name of the previous branded company. As for citing sources, well there is plenty of photographic evidence. I am not sure anyone can say the way of citing what a popular common name is for this. Printed media and roadsigns, etc will have it as intu, people who live in Derby will refer to it in different ways mostly just the shopping centre but if forced to give it a name some use Westfield and some less use Intu. If asked what is the "correct" name I suspect intu would be a clear winner.
I see this a little less problematic than lakeside, etc. even with less time rebranding as it refers to a previous company. Rovastar ( talk) 17:53, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Returning to this issue again: I'm in favour of moving the page to Intu Derby; calling it Westfield just looks out of date and wrong. I know the consensus about Intu centres generally is to use the "traditional", non-corporate name; but Derby, of course, has a problem – it doesn't have one. I think the best way to look at it is to consider the approach we use for sponsored stadiums: we use traditional, pre-sponsor names where they exist, e.g. Pride Park Stadium is the article title rather than iPro Stadium; but stadiums without established non-sponsored names use the sponsor for the title and have to change along with it, e.g. King Power Stadium. So, similarly, I would suggest Braehead rather than "Intu Braehead" – YES – but in this case "Intu Derby" – using the current corporate branding instead of what we have now, an outdated corporate branding. Jellyman ( talk) 22:19, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. - Okie dokie that didn't go as well as I'd hoped, For some reason I assumed consensus would perhaps change, Anyway I apologize for essentially wasting everyones time here. – Davey2010 Talk 00:20, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be
renamed and moved.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
In 2014 consensus was not to change the names to "Intu X" [1] [2] [3], Well times change and it does kinda make sense to move them, Some here are using previous company names (IE Westfield Derby) so to make everything consistent and to a point "with the times" I propose moving all to Intu X, (There was also a discussion on my talkpage but that's now in the 2014 archives which is extremely long so to save pcs crashing I won't link it!) – Davey2010 Talk 23:02, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
We don't need consistency. However, a Google News search shows Intu Derby gets a lot more hits then Westfield Derby in the last year. Doug Weller ( talk) 09:51, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Westfield Derby. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 05:57, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
The centre is named Intu Derby, that's what the sign out the front says, the website etc, so the article name should reflect. The contract of sale would have required a rebranding within a period of time and hence it was done. If the reason for not renaming is that Intu Derby is seen as promoting a corporate brand, then the same problem exists with having the article named Westfield Derby, given that it is Westfield as in Westfield Corporation. So what we have is an oudated corporate brand versus a current corporate brand.
While the argument put above to retain generic names for examples like Trafford Centre is valid where one exists, there isn't one for this centre. The last generic name, Eagle Centre, hasn't been used for nearly a decade and fails WP:COMMONNAME. Bit like saying we should keep Sri Lanka as Ceylon. While I agree items of public infrastructure should retain generic rather than commercial names, e.g. Pride Park Stadium not iPro Stadium, in the case of a shopping centre, it is privately owned and it is the owners prerogative to name as they see fit. Like when Derby City Transport was sold, it was the owner's right to rebrand it, hence the article is named Arriva Derby.
The article was rewritten back in October 2014 to reflect the Intu rebranding and has been accepted since, it just seems the final step of renaming was not followed through.
Pinging editors Peter James, Dougweller Jellyman, Rovastar, Anthony Appleyard, Charles and Davey2010 who have previously expressed an opinion on the matter. Greenrocket8 ( talk) 04:28, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Article name */ i believe there are legitimate claims to rename the article of this page. The arguments for renaming the other "intu" centres does not apply for this shopping centre. Although it is a commercial name, it is still a current commercial name and has valid grounds in terms of COMMONNAME naming rights. There has been two years of ownership and the article needs to represent the rebranding in the article name. Common name and common sense both support this article name change move. Web searches, literature all suggest the common name is definitely now intu Derby. How long are we going to leave this outdated for? jontyb ( talk)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Intu Derby. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:22, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Unopposed move ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 03:53, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Intu Derby → Derbion – As shown and sourced in the article, the shopping centre has now been renamed, the former name is no longer suitable as Intu no longer own it. Didn't want to move it without discussion as previous moves have been subject to lengthy debate. Jellyman ( talk) 07:51, 29 January 2021 (UTC)