![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I wish those making authoritative statements about Western Swing wouldn't hide behind anonymous IP addresses, nor point their references to print sources with no excerpting of the relevant text (under fair-use, of course). Right, Mr. 12.74.168.8 ? Jim, K7JEB 20:57, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Gypsy jazz influence in Western Swing- Django Reinhardt and Stephane Grappelli predate Bob Wills http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6U2tSVDtGk
Django and Grappelli were pre-western swing
Django influenced Western Swing http://www.jazzimprov.com/links/legends.cfm?legend_id=17 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.187.154.33 ( talk) 21:16, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
"Wills early guitarists deserve more credit for their pioneer efforts than the meager praise a few writers have grudingly given them. Most writers have tended to overemphasize the infulence on them of Django Reinhart and Charlie Christiansan and thereby overlook the innovativeness and creativity of Shamblin and McAuliffe. Actually, Eddie Lang had more influence than either Reinhart of Christian." accoding to Johnie Lee Wills. "By 1937, howver, Shamblin and especially McAuliffe had changed their performing technique and had made the guitar's role far more imposing than Lang, even with all his brilliance and ingenuity, would have dreamed." There is ONE reference to Rheinhart in this book The King of Western Swing - Bob Wills Remembered. Rosetta Wills. 1998. ISBN 0-8230-7744-6. Gypsy jazz doesn't appear in the index to this book.
I can tell you now that it Django gave you guys Western Swing, which doesn't really have anything innovative such as Gypsy minor music mixed with jazz or new chords and voicings etc. on the guitar. Just because you want to keep the influences "proper" and exclude non white musicians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.230.19 ( talk) 21:47, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Last time I checked Bessy Smith wasn't "white", and neither were many players of Dixieland, both of whom are acknowledged influences on both Bob Wills and Milton Brown. Steve Pastor ( talk) 22:08, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Well stop reverting, because Django was an influence on the watered down "jazz" known western swing, Grappelli was also an influence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.230.19 ( talk) 23:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
I see how you people work, If I have a reliable source it is not good enough, I see whats going on, another ripped off genre by white musicians. Kinda like how whites took rock and roll and butchered it into undancable fluff, like emo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.230.19 ( talk) 23:08, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Take a look at this reference - Lang, Smile When You Call Me a Hillbilly, p. 89: In October 1944, Billboard made the following announcement, unceremoniously giving the subgenre its common label for the first time in a national publication: 'Spade Cooley will put out 25 of his original tunes, together with an album of band numbers and suggestions on arrangements for Western Bands. Book to be titled Western Swing.' "
Thanks for that information. Still, the publication date is 1945, and Billboard used the term in 44. You don't by any chance have information about the places Cooley played, size of the crowds, how people danced to his music, etc? Do you think the "Origin of the Name" stuff could be better intigrated into the article? See, for instance the sentence(s) later in the article. Steve Pastor ( talk) 14:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I moved this from the text to this location so we can discuss it. This comment is "unreferenced".
You may be correct that this figure is inflated. However, to include a comment such as yours in the article you have to have a reliable, verifiable source for the statement that questions the referenced figure, rather than your opinion.
(The crab apple speaks.) Some guys have complained about authoritative statements unsupported by any evidence. In this version I think there are also some absurdly over-documented positions. There are occasional paragraphs which mention individual recording sessions and subsequent impressions. This is meant to be a general article. If the recording is significant, give it its own article. If not, trim it from this one. Pittsburgh Poet ( talk) 19:15, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Western swing. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot*this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:37, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
On the Jazz template, could someone take Western swing from the Related section and put it in the Genres section under Swing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C7:C201:C640:392D:A0B8:2CF8:6818 ( talk) 16:45, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I wish those making authoritative statements about Western Swing wouldn't hide behind anonymous IP addresses, nor point their references to print sources with no excerpting of the relevant text (under fair-use, of course). Right, Mr. 12.74.168.8 ? Jim, K7JEB 20:57, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Gypsy jazz influence in Western Swing- Django Reinhardt and Stephane Grappelli predate Bob Wills http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6U2tSVDtGk
Django and Grappelli were pre-western swing
Django influenced Western Swing http://www.jazzimprov.com/links/legends.cfm?legend_id=17 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.187.154.33 ( talk) 21:16, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
"Wills early guitarists deserve more credit for their pioneer efforts than the meager praise a few writers have grudingly given them. Most writers have tended to overemphasize the infulence on them of Django Reinhart and Charlie Christiansan and thereby overlook the innovativeness and creativity of Shamblin and McAuliffe. Actually, Eddie Lang had more influence than either Reinhart of Christian." accoding to Johnie Lee Wills. "By 1937, howver, Shamblin and especially McAuliffe had changed their performing technique and had made the guitar's role far more imposing than Lang, even with all his brilliance and ingenuity, would have dreamed." There is ONE reference to Rheinhart in this book The King of Western Swing - Bob Wills Remembered. Rosetta Wills. 1998. ISBN 0-8230-7744-6. Gypsy jazz doesn't appear in the index to this book.
I can tell you now that it Django gave you guys Western Swing, which doesn't really have anything innovative such as Gypsy minor music mixed with jazz or new chords and voicings etc. on the guitar. Just because you want to keep the influences "proper" and exclude non white musicians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.230.19 ( talk) 21:47, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Last time I checked Bessy Smith wasn't "white", and neither were many players of Dixieland, both of whom are acknowledged influences on both Bob Wills and Milton Brown. Steve Pastor ( talk) 22:08, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Well stop reverting, because Django was an influence on the watered down "jazz" known western swing, Grappelli was also an influence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.230.19 ( talk) 23:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
I see how you people work, If I have a reliable source it is not good enough, I see whats going on, another ripped off genre by white musicians. Kinda like how whites took rock and roll and butchered it into undancable fluff, like emo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.230.19 ( talk) 23:08, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Take a look at this reference - Lang, Smile When You Call Me a Hillbilly, p. 89: In October 1944, Billboard made the following announcement, unceremoniously giving the subgenre its common label for the first time in a national publication: 'Spade Cooley will put out 25 of his original tunes, together with an album of band numbers and suggestions on arrangements for Western Bands. Book to be titled Western Swing.' "
Thanks for that information. Still, the publication date is 1945, and Billboard used the term in 44. You don't by any chance have information about the places Cooley played, size of the crowds, how people danced to his music, etc? Do you think the "Origin of the Name" stuff could be better intigrated into the article? See, for instance the sentence(s) later in the article. Steve Pastor ( talk) 14:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I moved this from the text to this location so we can discuss it. This comment is "unreferenced".
You may be correct that this figure is inflated. However, to include a comment such as yours in the article you have to have a reliable, verifiable source for the statement that questions the referenced figure, rather than your opinion.
(The crab apple speaks.) Some guys have complained about authoritative statements unsupported by any evidence. In this version I think there are also some absurdly over-documented positions. There are occasional paragraphs which mention individual recording sessions and subsequent impressions. This is meant to be a general article. If the recording is significant, give it its own article. If not, trim it from this one. Pittsburgh Poet ( talk) 19:15, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Western swing. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot*this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:37, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
On the Jazz template, could someone take Western swing from the Related section and put it in the Genres section under Swing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C7:C201:C640:392D:A0B8:2CF8:6818 ( talk) 16:45, 17 November 2020 (UTC)