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The article says that WCS was originally danced to "sixteen count Blues music". This seems to be incorrect information. Perhaps the original author confused the eight count phrasing with the 12-bar blues form? Can anyone explain why this description is correct?
Also, I note that http://www.dcult.com/Swing-Dances/West_Coast_Swing.php and http://www.swwc.org/page.asp?PID=9 appear to be word-for-word identical with this article. Is this due to a common author (seems unlikely)? Was the article copied from one of them? Or are those sites just improperly using wikipedia material and slapping their own copyright on instead of following the license?
Szarka 16:40, 12 February 2006 (UTC) szarka
To the anonymous user at 192.18.42.11: Please stop reverting incorrect information. Both Lindy Hop and West Coast Swing (and pretty much every other Swing variant) mix patterns of arbitrary multiples of two. There is no difference between Lindy Hop and WCS in this respect. The rest of the article is a mess, and I don't see a good way to put that information elsewhere without a substantial rewrite. Please feel free to do so if you see a good place, though. You may also want to consider how this relates to the Wikipedia:Verifiability issue that user:Danilsuits raised below. - szarka 2005-01-17
OK, perhaps it is just me, but the contents of this article don't presently appear to meet the verifiability standard. I would recommend burning this draft and starting over.—Preceding unsigned comment added by danilsuits ( talk • contribs) Note that all of this comment, and the follwing discussion is a year old and the a Bot just added a "signature" to these 2 sentences. Steve Pastor ( talk) 01:32, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
It is a judgement call. But it is made by someone who knows social dance way more than casually. Just for kicks, here's a link which substantiates Powers' credibility. [1] Steve Pastor 19:23, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I have already acknowledged the improvisational nature of Lindy, Jack and Jill or otherwise. (and it's funny, because use of the term "hijacking" implies strict lead and follow is the expected rule unlike the philosophy found at some of the references in this article) Dance fads are not exactly included in social partner dances. If they were then we could say that all of the dancing during the hippie era, and at Greatful Dead concerts, was improvised social partner dance. Blues? (Don't get me started on "Blues dancing". Hollywood Style Lindy is another one.) Tango waltz - vals - comes under the broader heading of Argentine Tango, which, again, I've already acknowledged. Here's text from what I consider to be a fan site "West Coast Swing is the state dance of California. It's origins are definitely in Lindy Hop, but, "you've come a long way, baby!"". I ask you to try and find a verifiable, authoritative (at least as authoritative as dance historian Richard Powers P.S. Powers isn't quoted directly, but the cited page clearly supports the statement in the article.) source that contradicts the basic accuracy of the statement which is currently in the article. Steve Pastor 20:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to point out that the link to Richard Power's WCS syllabus does not state anywhere that the dance is "one of the most improvisational". In fact, it doesn't include the word "impro*" anywhere in the text. I'm rewording the text and removing the reference for the above reasons. –panda 21:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Hey, Panda, I got a chance to talk to Skippy a few weeks ago when she was here in Portland, OR. I encouraged her to get some of this stuff on one or another of her web sites. She is a very busy woman, however, and also an amazing woman (POV there, my goodness, she tap danced while explaining different rhythms, and she is sharp as a tack, and she's been teaching since the 50s! Do the math.) She has now posted a biography, and of course has another page where she writes some about the early history of WCS. She has sent me emails and I've talked to her on the phone. She does not take credit for some of the things some people accuse her of taking credit for. I'm not sure if there are any other verifiable sources regarding her life and involvement with WCS. Personally, I prefer to let her "speak for herself" since there is now a link to her bio in the article. Do you know anyone in the LA area who could go to the newspaper Skippy first advertised in? It would be really cool to get a copy of that ad. Anyone?
I happened across this regarding dance improvisation, and thought I would place a link here for anyone who has follwed this discussion [4]. Steve Pastor 15:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
The problem, as I see it, with this subject, is that I can't find a really good source that says definatively that the is "The Basic Step". Some people now believe that the Sugar Push is one of two Basic Steps in West Coast. The Sugar Push, or Push Break, is really pretty hard to do correctly, so I wouldn't think it is a Basic Step. But then again, some people do. I've looked at MANY sites with WCS information. For the most part, I don't consider any of them to be authoritative. The one exception is sites that are associated with Skippy Blair. She's been teaching this dance since before it was called West Coast Swing. She doesn't take credit for inventing it, or even coming up with the name. She credits the Golden State Dance Teachers Association with codifing the dance in it's current form. Her sites are not dogmatic about there being "A Basic Step". Books add nothing to the discussion. Arthur Murray's books from the 40 and 50s do not mention WCS. Laurie Haile had a book published, but it is not in the WorldCat on line resource. As recently published book "Social Dances in America..." has some incorrect information in it (Dean Collins was NOT on the cover of the New Yorker.)
I agree with this lastest comment and have written before, that other dance articles don't describe steps since Wikipedia is not a "How To" manual. Does anyone object to removing Sugar Push from the beginner section, or removing all Basics, Intermediate, etc material? If you object please try to address these comments. Steve Pastor ( talk) 23:29, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Obviously, there are a number of editors who have, or are friendly to, those who have commercial interest in having their websites linked to this page. Mikkalai, you've been doing most of the cleanup - which of the guidelines is relevant when removing those links Danil Suits 21:22, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I have removed lots of unnecessary capitalisations - AFAIK there is no need to write Blues, Lindy Hop, Samba, Chicken Walks etc in the middle of sentences. Regarding West Coast Swing though, I hesitate. It is often abbreviaten WCS, but that does not mean it should normally be capitalised - althogh this is often done. What do you say - West Coast Swing, West Coast swing (if "West Coast" kan be presumed a proper name), West coast swing? I agree that it is very often written West Coast Swing, but when you apply that kind of logics to the rest of the text... suddenly all dance-related terms turn up capitalised in the text. // Habj 08:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
In two editions of "How to Become a Good Dancer", Lindy Hop is capitalized. These books (1947 & 1954) were published by Simon and Schuster, which is still a major publishing company. This is the verifiable source for capilatizing Lindy Hop in this article. Steve Pastor 18:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
The following regards edits made by Dancedesigner on November 9, 2006. There are many strongly held beliefs about West Coast Swing. Many of those beliefs do not hold up to close scrutiny. I have attempted to separate fact from fiction regarding the history of this dance. All of my edits include references. Readers of Wikipedia may check those sources to verify the accuracy of what I have written. It is very clear to me that this is how Wikipedia is supposed to work. It would be very helpful if you would list the source of the information you left behind when you deleted the relevant, researched, and referenced material text I contributed. Or, at the very least left an explanation of why you deleted the material. I will restore the deleted material. Please have references to justify future edits. Steve Pastor
The first deleted sentence was essentially the same information contained in the first and second senteneces in this article. Dean Collins brought Savoy style Lindy Hop to the LA area. That dance is NOT West Coast Swing. There are reports that there were "jitterbuggers" at the 1935 Benny Goodman engagment at the Palomar in 1935, before Dean arrived. The second deleted sentence contradicts references which lead to the conclusion that West Coast Swing not only began in the Los Angeles area, but has a continuing history there beginning in the 1940s, albeit previously under other names. Evidence to the contrary (with cited references) would be appropriate. 11.25.2006 Steve Pastor
Sources state that the WCS slot is 3'x6' or 3'x8'. If couples dance a non slotted swing style and stay in a circle of 3' diameter, you could fit 16 couples onto a floor that is 12' by 12'. 12/3=4 in each "row", with 4 rows. Using the smaller size slot of 3'x6' you could put 12/3=4 couples in each row, but you could have only 2 rows 12/6=2. So, non slotted 12 couples, slotted 8 couples.
Even if the non slotted couples dance in a circle 4' in diameter (equals a square of 4'x4') you could fit 12/4=3 couples in 3 rows, giving 9 couples dancing a non slotted dance where only 8 slotted couples fit.
I conclude from this that the way you get more people on a dance floor is for the partners to get closer to each other, and stay that way. This is in fact what happens in Argentine Tango milongas in the center of Buenos Aires, where people are known to dance in one spot without touching other couples. There is also good ole fashion slow dancing , or buckle polishing as is done in country western places. But dancing in a slot will not in and of itself save space.
Any counter arguments? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steve Pastor ( talk • contribs) 19:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC).
Looks to me to some degree that your comparison is a bit questionable. The length of the slot was not the innovation - that's the same distance that lindy hop uses in open position. So if you comparing the packing of swing dancers, you should be comparing the slot to a 6' or 8' circle. Danil Suits 15:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Here's what I hope will be a fun way to think about this. When you compress a gas, the molecules don't line up to fit the same number of molecules into less space. They just get closer to each other (at least to my knowledge), but don't give up motion in only two directions. And - I just came across another dance produced by crowded dance floors - Balboa (dance). Again, partners moved closer to each other to conserve space, rather than spontaneously not doing the same subset of moves. This seems plausible. So, what would happen if there were 9 couples doing Lindy Hop on a floor that was 12'x12'? Steve Pastor 22:23, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
I want to add a line to the *music* section that WCS is generally danced to music with an accented upbeat. Thoughts? 207.28.71.66 19:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
This sentence "When the GOLDEN WEST BALLROOM, in Norwalk, California, changed from Country to Ballroom dancing, the dance most advertised on the Marquee was West Coast Swing." most probably written by Skippy Blair can be found here. [7] By the juxtaposition to the previous sentence, you would guess it would be about the same time - 1962 - but it deosn't say that exactly. Steve Pastor ( talk) 22:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
This article is currently in need of some dedicated attention from an expert on the subject. For example, the sections entitled "ADVANCED TECHNIQUES & STYLING IN WEST COAST SWING..." and "Advanced dancers and moves" seem to be trying to teach readers how to dance WCS, which is an inappropriate goal for a textual medium. As a dancer even with only a couple years' experience, I can testify that a body-led partner dance such as WCS cannot be taught without, at the very least, a visual aid, though even that will produce improper dancing 99 times out of 100 due to lack of experiential knowledge, taught by an experienced dancer, of the essentials of partner connection.
Therefore, I propose that the compendium of "basic moves that any WCS dancer should know" be removed, along with the two whole sections that immediately follow it, because such solely verbal descriptions of dance steps, posture, and movement have no place here. However, the first sentence of the "Advanced dancers and moves" section, along with its final subsection, do have relevance to the immediate qualitative feel or look of dance and to the culture which surrounds it, respectively, and should probably be kept and absorbed into more relevant sections ("Styles" and "History"?). Also, some of the information contained in "ADVANCED TECHNIQUES & STYLING IN WEST COAST SWING..." could be compressed and edited to fit into the "Styles" section, e.g. "WCS is a dance featuring upright posture, smooth movement, and a clear but relaxed connection between the partners." Also, the description of the "most basic of patterns in WCS" may be extraneous as well, essentially gutting that "Beginning moves" subsection.
I'm sorry I haven't effected these changes myself; I don't want to step on any toes, but I do think something needs to be done about this article. If someone could flag the article as "in need of attention from an expert", I would also be grateful. I don't know how to do that offhand, and my time is limited, as I really am trying to spend some time with my family right now. Honest! I'm leaving now! Thanks for reading my suggestions!
~Sam DuVal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.202.206 ( talk) 15:57, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
I have implemented changes in the spirit of some of the previous comments. Note also that all of deleted material was unreferenced, or in one case pointed to a commerial site. Please note again that the article is not a HOW TO MANUAL. Steve Pastor ( talk) 23:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Laure Hailes connection with Santa Monica currently hinges on one article. I've had a chance to actually see one of Laure's dance notebooks. The addresses listed do not include Santa Monica. Lori does not mention where she got the Santa Monica information in her article. On the other hand, Skippy Blair has written the following, “American Couples Dancing” brings Laure' Haile to mind. "As National Dance Director for Arthur Murray Studios in the 1950s, LAURE' influenced thousands of dance instructors." [8] I am considering making appropriate (minor) changes in the article. Steve Pastor ( talk) 00:17, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
This text is from the Swing Dance National Hall of Fame. http://www.swingdancecouncil.com/halloffame2.html "He grew up in Newark, New Jersey where, at the age of thirteen he learned Swing from his two older sisters. Within a few years he was dancing at every dance spot from Atlanta City to the "Savoy Ballroom" in Harlem, N.Y."
Steve, please come the talk page to discuss your extensive additions to the article. References are required for material to be unchallenged. Please work with me and other editors to keep this aritcle referenced. Steve Pastor ( talk) 23:03, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
I'd be happy to discuss the changes. Most of this information is taken from extensive notes from lectures and workshops from US Professional Champions. Unfortunately, few published books exist in this and many other social dance forms that are particularly trustable. I've added some verifiable references, I will continue to add more as I find verifiable references duplicating my personal notes. Dr. Steve Penny, Ph.D., A.I.S.T.D. ( talk) 12:26, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lindy hop which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 07:29, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lindy Hop which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 17:44, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
"We" (myself and people who look at Dance-Forums) have known for over ten years that West Coast Swing had that name in 1953. Recently "we" learned that it was an advertised dance as early as December 1948. Updates and an acknowledgement to come. User:Steve Pastor 29 March 2024
In 2013 I received 34 photocopied pages of "SWING NOTES" (etc) from a former Murray teacher. One set of those notes listed West Coast Swing and was dated April 1953. IN 2021 Forrest Outman "clipped" and shared a December 1948 advertisement for "the New West Coast Swing." I have since found additional documentation that WCS was a thing across a wide geographic area throughout the fifties. Edits to come. User:Steve Pastor 02 April 2024
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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The article says that WCS was originally danced to "sixteen count Blues music". This seems to be incorrect information. Perhaps the original author confused the eight count phrasing with the 12-bar blues form? Can anyone explain why this description is correct?
Also, I note that http://www.dcult.com/Swing-Dances/West_Coast_Swing.php and http://www.swwc.org/page.asp?PID=9 appear to be word-for-word identical with this article. Is this due to a common author (seems unlikely)? Was the article copied from one of them? Or are those sites just improperly using wikipedia material and slapping their own copyright on instead of following the license?
Szarka 16:40, 12 February 2006 (UTC) szarka
To the anonymous user at 192.18.42.11: Please stop reverting incorrect information. Both Lindy Hop and West Coast Swing (and pretty much every other Swing variant) mix patterns of arbitrary multiples of two. There is no difference between Lindy Hop and WCS in this respect. The rest of the article is a mess, and I don't see a good way to put that information elsewhere without a substantial rewrite. Please feel free to do so if you see a good place, though. You may also want to consider how this relates to the Wikipedia:Verifiability issue that user:Danilsuits raised below. - szarka 2005-01-17
OK, perhaps it is just me, but the contents of this article don't presently appear to meet the verifiability standard. I would recommend burning this draft and starting over.—Preceding unsigned comment added by danilsuits ( talk • contribs) Note that all of this comment, and the follwing discussion is a year old and the a Bot just added a "signature" to these 2 sentences. Steve Pastor ( talk) 01:32, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
It is a judgement call. But it is made by someone who knows social dance way more than casually. Just for kicks, here's a link which substantiates Powers' credibility. [1] Steve Pastor 19:23, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I have already acknowledged the improvisational nature of Lindy, Jack and Jill or otherwise. (and it's funny, because use of the term "hijacking" implies strict lead and follow is the expected rule unlike the philosophy found at some of the references in this article) Dance fads are not exactly included in social partner dances. If they were then we could say that all of the dancing during the hippie era, and at Greatful Dead concerts, was improvised social partner dance. Blues? (Don't get me started on "Blues dancing". Hollywood Style Lindy is another one.) Tango waltz - vals - comes under the broader heading of Argentine Tango, which, again, I've already acknowledged. Here's text from what I consider to be a fan site "West Coast Swing is the state dance of California. It's origins are definitely in Lindy Hop, but, "you've come a long way, baby!"". I ask you to try and find a verifiable, authoritative (at least as authoritative as dance historian Richard Powers P.S. Powers isn't quoted directly, but the cited page clearly supports the statement in the article.) source that contradicts the basic accuracy of the statement which is currently in the article. Steve Pastor 20:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to point out that the link to Richard Power's WCS syllabus does not state anywhere that the dance is "one of the most improvisational". In fact, it doesn't include the word "impro*" anywhere in the text. I'm rewording the text and removing the reference for the above reasons. –panda 21:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Hey, Panda, I got a chance to talk to Skippy a few weeks ago when she was here in Portland, OR. I encouraged her to get some of this stuff on one or another of her web sites. She is a very busy woman, however, and also an amazing woman (POV there, my goodness, she tap danced while explaining different rhythms, and she is sharp as a tack, and she's been teaching since the 50s! Do the math.) She has now posted a biography, and of course has another page where she writes some about the early history of WCS. She has sent me emails and I've talked to her on the phone. She does not take credit for some of the things some people accuse her of taking credit for. I'm not sure if there are any other verifiable sources regarding her life and involvement with WCS. Personally, I prefer to let her "speak for herself" since there is now a link to her bio in the article. Do you know anyone in the LA area who could go to the newspaper Skippy first advertised in? It would be really cool to get a copy of that ad. Anyone?
I happened across this regarding dance improvisation, and thought I would place a link here for anyone who has follwed this discussion [4]. Steve Pastor 15:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
The problem, as I see it, with this subject, is that I can't find a really good source that says definatively that the is "The Basic Step". Some people now believe that the Sugar Push is one of two Basic Steps in West Coast. The Sugar Push, or Push Break, is really pretty hard to do correctly, so I wouldn't think it is a Basic Step. But then again, some people do. I've looked at MANY sites with WCS information. For the most part, I don't consider any of them to be authoritative. The one exception is sites that are associated with Skippy Blair. She's been teaching this dance since before it was called West Coast Swing. She doesn't take credit for inventing it, or even coming up with the name. She credits the Golden State Dance Teachers Association with codifing the dance in it's current form. Her sites are not dogmatic about there being "A Basic Step". Books add nothing to the discussion. Arthur Murray's books from the 40 and 50s do not mention WCS. Laurie Haile had a book published, but it is not in the WorldCat on line resource. As recently published book "Social Dances in America..." has some incorrect information in it (Dean Collins was NOT on the cover of the New Yorker.)
I agree with this lastest comment and have written before, that other dance articles don't describe steps since Wikipedia is not a "How To" manual. Does anyone object to removing Sugar Push from the beginner section, or removing all Basics, Intermediate, etc material? If you object please try to address these comments. Steve Pastor ( talk) 23:29, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Obviously, there are a number of editors who have, or are friendly to, those who have commercial interest in having their websites linked to this page. Mikkalai, you've been doing most of the cleanup - which of the guidelines is relevant when removing those links Danil Suits 21:22, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I have removed lots of unnecessary capitalisations - AFAIK there is no need to write Blues, Lindy Hop, Samba, Chicken Walks etc in the middle of sentences. Regarding West Coast Swing though, I hesitate. It is often abbreviaten WCS, but that does not mean it should normally be capitalised - althogh this is often done. What do you say - West Coast Swing, West Coast swing (if "West Coast" kan be presumed a proper name), West coast swing? I agree that it is very often written West Coast Swing, but when you apply that kind of logics to the rest of the text... suddenly all dance-related terms turn up capitalised in the text. // Habj 08:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
In two editions of "How to Become a Good Dancer", Lindy Hop is capitalized. These books (1947 & 1954) were published by Simon and Schuster, which is still a major publishing company. This is the verifiable source for capilatizing Lindy Hop in this article. Steve Pastor 18:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
The following regards edits made by Dancedesigner on November 9, 2006. There are many strongly held beliefs about West Coast Swing. Many of those beliefs do not hold up to close scrutiny. I have attempted to separate fact from fiction regarding the history of this dance. All of my edits include references. Readers of Wikipedia may check those sources to verify the accuracy of what I have written. It is very clear to me that this is how Wikipedia is supposed to work. It would be very helpful if you would list the source of the information you left behind when you deleted the relevant, researched, and referenced material text I contributed. Or, at the very least left an explanation of why you deleted the material. I will restore the deleted material. Please have references to justify future edits. Steve Pastor
The first deleted sentence was essentially the same information contained in the first and second senteneces in this article. Dean Collins brought Savoy style Lindy Hop to the LA area. That dance is NOT West Coast Swing. There are reports that there were "jitterbuggers" at the 1935 Benny Goodman engagment at the Palomar in 1935, before Dean arrived. The second deleted sentence contradicts references which lead to the conclusion that West Coast Swing not only began in the Los Angeles area, but has a continuing history there beginning in the 1940s, albeit previously under other names. Evidence to the contrary (with cited references) would be appropriate. 11.25.2006 Steve Pastor
Sources state that the WCS slot is 3'x6' or 3'x8'. If couples dance a non slotted swing style and stay in a circle of 3' diameter, you could fit 16 couples onto a floor that is 12' by 12'. 12/3=4 in each "row", with 4 rows. Using the smaller size slot of 3'x6' you could put 12/3=4 couples in each row, but you could have only 2 rows 12/6=2. So, non slotted 12 couples, slotted 8 couples.
Even if the non slotted couples dance in a circle 4' in diameter (equals a square of 4'x4') you could fit 12/4=3 couples in 3 rows, giving 9 couples dancing a non slotted dance where only 8 slotted couples fit.
I conclude from this that the way you get more people on a dance floor is for the partners to get closer to each other, and stay that way. This is in fact what happens in Argentine Tango milongas in the center of Buenos Aires, where people are known to dance in one spot without touching other couples. There is also good ole fashion slow dancing , or buckle polishing as is done in country western places. But dancing in a slot will not in and of itself save space.
Any counter arguments? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steve Pastor ( talk • contribs) 19:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC).
Looks to me to some degree that your comparison is a bit questionable. The length of the slot was not the innovation - that's the same distance that lindy hop uses in open position. So if you comparing the packing of swing dancers, you should be comparing the slot to a 6' or 8' circle. Danil Suits 15:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Here's what I hope will be a fun way to think about this. When you compress a gas, the molecules don't line up to fit the same number of molecules into less space. They just get closer to each other (at least to my knowledge), but don't give up motion in only two directions. And - I just came across another dance produced by crowded dance floors - Balboa (dance). Again, partners moved closer to each other to conserve space, rather than spontaneously not doing the same subset of moves. This seems plausible. So, what would happen if there were 9 couples doing Lindy Hop on a floor that was 12'x12'? Steve Pastor 22:23, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
I want to add a line to the *music* section that WCS is generally danced to music with an accented upbeat. Thoughts? 207.28.71.66 19:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
This sentence "When the GOLDEN WEST BALLROOM, in Norwalk, California, changed from Country to Ballroom dancing, the dance most advertised on the Marquee was West Coast Swing." most probably written by Skippy Blair can be found here. [7] By the juxtaposition to the previous sentence, you would guess it would be about the same time - 1962 - but it deosn't say that exactly. Steve Pastor ( talk) 22:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
This article is currently in need of some dedicated attention from an expert on the subject. For example, the sections entitled "ADVANCED TECHNIQUES & STYLING IN WEST COAST SWING..." and "Advanced dancers and moves" seem to be trying to teach readers how to dance WCS, which is an inappropriate goal for a textual medium. As a dancer even with only a couple years' experience, I can testify that a body-led partner dance such as WCS cannot be taught without, at the very least, a visual aid, though even that will produce improper dancing 99 times out of 100 due to lack of experiential knowledge, taught by an experienced dancer, of the essentials of partner connection.
Therefore, I propose that the compendium of "basic moves that any WCS dancer should know" be removed, along with the two whole sections that immediately follow it, because such solely verbal descriptions of dance steps, posture, and movement have no place here. However, the first sentence of the "Advanced dancers and moves" section, along with its final subsection, do have relevance to the immediate qualitative feel or look of dance and to the culture which surrounds it, respectively, and should probably be kept and absorbed into more relevant sections ("Styles" and "History"?). Also, some of the information contained in "ADVANCED TECHNIQUES & STYLING IN WEST COAST SWING..." could be compressed and edited to fit into the "Styles" section, e.g. "WCS is a dance featuring upright posture, smooth movement, and a clear but relaxed connection between the partners." Also, the description of the "most basic of patterns in WCS" may be extraneous as well, essentially gutting that "Beginning moves" subsection.
I'm sorry I haven't effected these changes myself; I don't want to step on any toes, but I do think something needs to be done about this article. If someone could flag the article as "in need of attention from an expert", I would also be grateful. I don't know how to do that offhand, and my time is limited, as I really am trying to spend some time with my family right now. Honest! I'm leaving now! Thanks for reading my suggestions!
~Sam DuVal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.202.206 ( talk) 15:57, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
I have implemented changes in the spirit of some of the previous comments. Note also that all of deleted material was unreferenced, or in one case pointed to a commerial site. Please note again that the article is not a HOW TO MANUAL. Steve Pastor ( talk) 23:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Laure Hailes connection with Santa Monica currently hinges on one article. I've had a chance to actually see one of Laure's dance notebooks. The addresses listed do not include Santa Monica. Lori does not mention where she got the Santa Monica information in her article. On the other hand, Skippy Blair has written the following, “American Couples Dancing” brings Laure' Haile to mind. "As National Dance Director for Arthur Murray Studios in the 1950s, LAURE' influenced thousands of dance instructors." [8] I am considering making appropriate (minor) changes in the article. Steve Pastor ( talk) 00:17, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
This text is from the Swing Dance National Hall of Fame. http://www.swingdancecouncil.com/halloffame2.html "He grew up in Newark, New Jersey where, at the age of thirteen he learned Swing from his two older sisters. Within a few years he was dancing at every dance spot from Atlanta City to the "Savoy Ballroom" in Harlem, N.Y."
Steve, please come the talk page to discuss your extensive additions to the article. References are required for material to be unchallenged. Please work with me and other editors to keep this aritcle referenced. Steve Pastor ( talk) 23:03, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
I'd be happy to discuss the changes. Most of this information is taken from extensive notes from lectures and workshops from US Professional Champions. Unfortunately, few published books exist in this and many other social dance forms that are particularly trustable. I've added some verifiable references, I will continue to add more as I find verifiable references duplicating my personal notes. Dr. Steve Penny, Ph.D., A.I.S.T.D. ( talk) 12:26, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lindy hop which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 07:29, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lindy Hop which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 17:44, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
"We" (myself and people who look at Dance-Forums) have known for over ten years that West Coast Swing had that name in 1953. Recently "we" learned that it was an advertised dance as early as December 1948. Updates and an acknowledgement to come. User:Steve Pastor 29 March 2024
In 2013 I received 34 photocopied pages of "SWING NOTES" (etc) from a former Murray teacher. One set of those notes listed West Coast Swing and was dated April 1953. IN 2021 Forrest Outman "clipped" and shared a December 1948 advertisement for "the New West Coast Swing." I have since found additional documentation that WCS was a thing across a wide geographic area throughout the fifties. Edits to come. User:Steve Pastor 02 April 2024