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Archive 1 Apr 2005 - Nov 2008 |
I saw the {{ geographical imbalance}} tag "This article may not provide balanced geographical coverage on the region in question." I see no discussion here on the Talk page, but I do agree that the article is almost entirely about online comics in the Anglo-saxon language sphere and neglects European (non-English) and Asian work.
Therefore I started the section Non-english webcomics with an example of one German comic.
I know nothing about the history of online comics outside of what I read in the French and German articles and faint memories of Compuserve comic forums (possibly German around 1995). Nevertheless I added inside html comments the following very rough skeleton that could be expanded to cover the French.
A section on the different developmental path that French "webcomics" took could be added here. Paraphrasing
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bande_dessin%C3%A9e_en_ligne:
Comics in the French language appeared online very hesitantly: 1997
Bande dessinée interactive?
first (shortlived?) appearance at
Angoulême International Comics Festival;
existing print-comic publishers show limited strips on their web-portals (
Fluide Glacial);
group of illustrators launch
BDAmateur 1998;
2001 "Lapin by Phiip first french online comic strip"?
...
Anglosaxon and Asian regions clearly ahead;
claims on line comics in Korea represent a quarter of the cartoon market!
2005 revitalisation of francophone comics: Blog BD (mixed set of graphic novel fragments, illustrations, sketches, popular as, but different from US-webcomics);
contrary to rest of world French comics online return to the traditional printed paper style;
I would be interested if anyone could expand this section for several other languages and cultures, for example where are Japanese and Korean webcomics mentioned (apart from eigoMANGA)? 84user ( talk) 01:43, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I have reinstated the section I started in 2008, now named Non-anglophone webcomics. My contribution was not a list, those were added later. I agree with discouraging list-type entries, but not prose sections. Please note this English wikipedia article still suffers from the usual {{ geographical imbalance}} remarked upon in 2008. For those that can read French, w:fr:Bande dessinée en ligne shows the kind of balanced coverage we should be aiming for. - 84user ( talk) 14:29, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
Well I added this:
France:
"In France Comic Blogs are thriving. There are now festivals dedicated to webcomics like the Festiblog. Even at the famous Comic Festival of Angoulême, comic bloggers are present and award the price of the best webcomic. France is a country with a strong tradition in comics but there seems to be a place left for bloggers who represent the new generation of comic authors. A good example is Boulet, who started with a blog and who's publishing his second album of webcomics now: Bouletcorp. Here's a list of established and less established French webcomics: Frédéric Boilet, Guy Delisle, Lucille Gomez, Nicoz, Clément Oubrerie, Paka, Pluche, Lewis Trondheim, Wayne, Blog de la Mirabelle, Le repaire de Lommsek... This is only a short selection and some of these blogs have an audience of 30,000 readers/day, others of 200 readers/day, but their diversity reflect the broad range of webcomics in a French comic environment in constant evolution. Some of these webcomics are mixed genres. Using the freedom of a blog some authors mix comics, photography, videos, texts, but essentially these blogs are webcomics."
But it was censored because the links (in bold) are considered spam!!! Unbelievable. I'm done here. I don't feel like working for nothing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lamirabelle ( talk • contribs) 20:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Would it be relevant enough and not considered spamming to add an external link for a webcomic artists's discussion forum? There is resourceful information about creating and making a business of webcomics at this website. I've read the external links rules and I can't seem to figure out whether this would be considered spam since it is of assistance and provides information. Thanks for your help! Wendyannee ( talk) 03:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
T.H.E. Fox has the assertion of being the "first known online comic" based on a statement by T Campbell of Penny and Aggie. Is this person's statement something we can consider a reliable source? GreenReaper ( talk) 14:25, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
At this writing, I can't find anything earlier than, or contemporary with, *T.H.E. Fox*. I think it would be extremely unreliable to claim *T.H.E. Fox* as "the earliest online comic," but unless someone steps forward to offer up an earlier example, it makes sense to call it "the earliest known." When I wrote and published *A History of Webcomics*, I didn't know about *T.H.E. Fox.* My earliest "online comic" citation then (not counting some forerunners that weren't really comics) was *Where The Buffalo Roam* from six years later. After my publication, a reader turned me on to some of the creator's interviews and I realized there was enough to verify his 1986 claim.
I find this way too amusing and ironic not to point out. Read the last part of Scott Kurtz's post here. (I can't copy it all here) He says "I think I would just let everyone tell their own story, even if they overlap and contradict each other. The contradictions would at least be compelling." and then goes on to say "Maybe it's something that should be more open-source and wiki-like than something that reads like a term paper." Sense the relevancy of all this? :) RP9 ( talk) 13:08, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I feel that Mark Fiore's work isn't a good example of an animated webcomic. Fiore's output doesn't feature any of the typical hallmarks of a comic, online or otherwise, such as speech bubbles or, more importantly, panels. On his website, Fiore's output is described as 'Newstoons', implying an identification from the producer's point of view with animated cartoons, while his Wiki article describes him as a 'political cartoonist', rather than a webcomic creator (though he was included in Ted Raill's Attitude 3, a summary of the latter genre). If anything, I would suggest that Fiore's work is more akin to motion comics than a webcomic; but that's my own opinion, which could easily get everyone into an exercise in genre-definition, which would probably get us nowhere fast.
I'm definitely not saying that Fiore is unworthy of inclusion in Wiki or even the webcomics article (in case any thinks I am) - but I do feel that a better example of an animated webcomic, rather than a flash-animated political cartoon, could be provided in the article. Perhaps other examples can be found and added, at least? Visual Error ( talk) 14:11, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
"
The WackyCrackHeads" was doing this in 1995, with quicktime, flash, java, javascript in the middle of the strip, or at the end, see the section below for links and references.
Found a source about Single Asian Female:
WhisperToMe ( talk) 07:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
This page does not include the WackyCrackHeads. It was not only the first colored (in color) webcomic on the internet (in Jan 1995), it also coined the term Hypertoon, was also the very first to use many of the newly available HTML features for WWW Developers, including tables, server-push animation, quicktime [ [7]], shockwave [ [8]], java applets [ [9]], embedded sound [ [10]], javascript [ [11]] and user-interaction via perl driven web forms (user's could add their name and comments to the scrolling LED Java Applet in the Hypertoon "the Church of $cientology") [ [12]]. It was thus also the first interactive and animated webcomic online.
The WackyCrackHeads has now been deleted from this page 4 times in the past 4 days amidst cries of vandalism. Having a hard time recovering the MN Daily article, and the refs to the site are all links from early user sites like The WELL, MINDVOX, and ART CRIMES which I suppose you do not considered credible. Considering the highly alternative nature of the content, most of the attention the site received was direct user feedback (including comments posted by R.U.Sirius Ad Rock and others), finding what you might consider "RELIABLE" sources to quote except from the site itself, user pages, wikis, links, and the dates written in the actual artwork is difficult given the time expired since it's occurrence. The wayback machine didn't start collecting pages until 1996 where you can see snapshots of content that had by then been online for more than a year.
Another point to mention is that the WackyCrackHeads was also a featured comic of David DeVitry's Webcomics.com which was a 1996 anthology of webcomics online which ran for a few years but is also missing from this page.
I think you're reading way too much into this. If something is inserted into an article, it needs to have a reliable source backing it up, that's the way Wikipedia works. Your information is unsourced. It doesn't matter how "noteworthy" it is or not, if it isn't reliably sourced, it doesn't belong in the article. Simple as that. - Sudo Ghost 18:18, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
If it's besides the point, there's no point in discussing it, because it isn't related to improving the article, which is the purpose of an article talk page. If your webcomic is notable, find a reliable source showing this. If it was the first interactive comic, find a reliable source showing this. - Sudo Ghost 20:10, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Can someone write or link to an article on webcomic hosting sites? I know there are many of them now. Taptastic, ComicFury, probably a whole bunch of others.
in the introduction to the article it says that there where an estimated 38,000 webcomics in 2007. The problem is in the source of this information. It is apparently a short blogpost by Joey Manley (I say apparently because it is no longer in the original website. the link, from 2009, does not work any longer. I read it on a blog archive). It makes some wild assumptions without any justification, and in the end he says himself that this is not a reliable estimate. this is a link to the post I am refering to http://archive.is/ZAFf . because of this I am going to eliminate the sentence. I would recommend replacing it with something like the number of webcomics listed in popular websites that manage webcomics, because without an original academic study I don't think an approximation is good enough to be posted on wikipedia. Melquiades Babilonia ( talk) 20:13, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
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I've removed the link to Yanapax, a reader application. Can't seem to find any sources that this one is more relevant than all the other. I don't see the relevance of this link anyway. Regards Knud Winckelmann ( talk) 09:02, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
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I've seen "web comic" used more in writing and usage than "webcomic" and it also seems correct to write them as two separate words like "graphic novel" than to combine them into one. I wanted to know what the majority of people on here believe before making any important moves. Should this page remain "webcomic" or should it be renamed to "web comic"? AquilaXIII ( talk) 12:42, April 18, 2018 (UTC)
Hello,
since the 11-year-old discussion regarding T.H.E. Fox above, the claim that Witches & Stitches was the first webcomic has appeared in the article. However, in his recent book Webcomics, Sean Kleefeld is skeptical of this claim, writing about Eric Millikin, author of Witches & Stitches:
The interview cited was apparently published in the book Attitude 3: The New Subversive Online Cartoonists by Ted Rall. Kleefeld awards to T.H.E. Fox the more measured claim of being "One of the earliest (often considered the earliest)" webcomic. Kleefeld's book seems to me more reputable than the sources cited here, who provide no argument for their assertions. I would just edit the article, but since the claim is also repeated in other places ( History of webcomics, List of early webcomics, Eric Millikin, no further sources there except an assertion by Yahoo! Celebrity), and I'm more comfortable on German Wikipedia, I thought I'd ask for comments here first.
Thank you, -- Linseneintopf ( talk) 22:11, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I have started a discussion at Talk:Digital comic#Clarification needed to distinguish from Webcomic which affects both articles. 93 ( talk) 21:55, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2023 and 14 December 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Jinx Tunes (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Stevesuny ( talk) 14:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Webcomic article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Archive 1 Apr 2005 - Nov 2008 |
I saw the {{ geographical imbalance}} tag "This article may not provide balanced geographical coverage on the region in question." I see no discussion here on the Talk page, but I do agree that the article is almost entirely about online comics in the Anglo-saxon language sphere and neglects European (non-English) and Asian work.
Therefore I started the section Non-english webcomics with an example of one German comic.
I know nothing about the history of online comics outside of what I read in the French and German articles and faint memories of Compuserve comic forums (possibly German around 1995). Nevertheless I added inside html comments the following very rough skeleton that could be expanded to cover the French.
A section on the different developmental path that French "webcomics" took could be added here. Paraphrasing
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bande_dessin%C3%A9e_en_ligne:
Comics in the French language appeared online very hesitantly: 1997
Bande dessinée interactive?
first (shortlived?) appearance at
Angoulême International Comics Festival;
existing print-comic publishers show limited strips on their web-portals (
Fluide Glacial);
group of illustrators launch
BDAmateur 1998;
2001 "Lapin by Phiip first french online comic strip"?
...
Anglosaxon and Asian regions clearly ahead;
claims on line comics in Korea represent a quarter of the cartoon market!
2005 revitalisation of francophone comics: Blog BD (mixed set of graphic novel fragments, illustrations, sketches, popular as, but different from US-webcomics);
contrary to rest of world French comics online return to the traditional printed paper style;
I would be interested if anyone could expand this section for several other languages and cultures, for example where are Japanese and Korean webcomics mentioned (apart from eigoMANGA)? 84user ( talk) 01:43, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I have reinstated the section I started in 2008, now named Non-anglophone webcomics. My contribution was not a list, those were added later. I agree with discouraging list-type entries, but not prose sections. Please note this English wikipedia article still suffers from the usual {{ geographical imbalance}} remarked upon in 2008. For those that can read French, w:fr:Bande dessinée en ligne shows the kind of balanced coverage we should be aiming for. - 84user ( talk) 14:29, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
Well I added this:
France:
"In France Comic Blogs are thriving. There are now festivals dedicated to webcomics like the Festiblog. Even at the famous Comic Festival of Angoulême, comic bloggers are present and award the price of the best webcomic. France is a country with a strong tradition in comics but there seems to be a place left for bloggers who represent the new generation of comic authors. A good example is Boulet, who started with a blog and who's publishing his second album of webcomics now: Bouletcorp. Here's a list of established and less established French webcomics: Frédéric Boilet, Guy Delisle, Lucille Gomez, Nicoz, Clément Oubrerie, Paka, Pluche, Lewis Trondheim, Wayne, Blog de la Mirabelle, Le repaire de Lommsek... This is only a short selection and some of these blogs have an audience of 30,000 readers/day, others of 200 readers/day, but their diversity reflect the broad range of webcomics in a French comic environment in constant evolution. Some of these webcomics are mixed genres. Using the freedom of a blog some authors mix comics, photography, videos, texts, but essentially these blogs are webcomics."
But it was censored because the links (in bold) are considered spam!!! Unbelievable. I'm done here. I don't feel like working for nothing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lamirabelle ( talk • contribs) 20:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Would it be relevant enough and not considered spamming to add an external link for a webcomic artists's discussion forum? There is resourceful information about creating and making a business of webcomics at this website. I've read the external links rules and I can't seem to figure out whether this would be considered spam since it is of assistance and provides information. Thanks for your help! Wendyannee ( talk) 03:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
T.H.E. Fox has the assertion of being the "first known online comic" based on a statement by T Campbell of Penny and Aggie. Is this person's statement something we can consider a reliable source? GreenReaper ( talk) 14:25, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
At this writing, I can't find anything earlier than, or contemporary with, *T.H.E. Fox*. I think it would be extremely unreliable to claim *T.H.E. Fox* as "the earliest online comic," but unless someone steps forward to offer up an earlier example, it makes sense to call it "the earliest known." When I wrote and published *A History of Webcomics*, I didn't know about *T.H.E. Fox.* My earliest "online comic" citation then (not counting some forerunners that weren't really comics) was *Where The Buffalo Roam* from six years later. After my publication, a reader turned me on to some of the creator's interviews and I realized there was enough to verify his 1986 claim.
I find this way too amusing and ironic not to point out. Read the last part of Scott Kurtz's post here. (I can't copy it all here) He says "I think I would just let everyone tell their own story, even if they overlap and contradict each other. The contradictions would at least be compelling." and then goes on to say "Maybe it's something that should be more open-source and wiki-like than something that reads like a term paper." Sense the relevancy of all this? :) RP9 ( talk) 13:08, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I feel that Mark Fiore's work isn't a good example of an animated webcomic. Fiore's output doesn't feature any of the typical hallmarks of a comic, online or otherwise, such as speech bubbles or, more importantly, panels. On his website, Fiore's output is described as 'Newstoons', implying an identification from the producer's point of view with animated cartoons, while his Wiki article describes him as a 'political cartoonist', rather than a webcomic creator (though he was included in Ted Raill's Attitude 3, a summary of the latter genre). If anything, I would suggest that Fiore's work is more akin to motion comics than a webcomic; but that's my own opinion, which could easily get everyone into an exercise in genre-definition, which would probably get us nowhere fast.
I'm definitely not saying that Fiore is unworthy of inclusion in Wiki or even the webcomics article (in case any thinks I am) - but I do feel that a better example of an animated webcomic, rather than a flash-animated political cartoon, could be provided in the article. Perhaps other examples can be found and added, at least? Visual Error ( talk) 14:11, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
"
The WackyCrackHeads" was doing this in 1995, with quicktime, flash, java, javascript in the middle of the strip, or at the end, see the section below for links and references.
Found a source about Single Asian Female:
WhisperToMe ( talk) 07:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
This page does not include the WackyCrackHeads. It was not only the first colored (in color) webcomic on the internet (in Jan 1995), it also coined the term Hypertoon, was also the very first to use many of the newly available HTML features for WWW Developers, including tables, server-push animation, quicktime [ [7]], shockwave [ [8]], java applets [ [9]], embedded sound [ [10]], javascript [ [11]] and user-interaction via perl driven web forms (user's could add their name and comments to the scrolling LED Java Applet in the Hypertoon "the Church of $cientology") [ [12]]. It was thus also the first interactive and animated webcomic online.
The WackyCrackHeads has now been deleted from this page 4 times in the past 4 days amidst cries of vandalism. Having a hard time recovering the MN Daily article, and the refs to the site are all links from early user sites like The WELL, MINDVOX, and ART CRIMES which I suppose you do not considered credible. Considering the highly alternative nature of the content, most of the attention the site received was direct user feedback (including comments posted by R.U.Sirius Ad Rock and others), finding what you might consider "RELIABLE" sources to quote except from the site itself, user pages, wikis, links, and the dates written in the actual artwork is difficult given the time expired since it's occurrence. The wayback machine didn't start collecting pages until 1996 where you can see snapshots of content that had by then been online for more than a year.
Another point to mention is that the WackyCrackHeads was also a featured comic of David DeVitry's Webcomics.com which was a 1996 anthology of webcomics online which ran for a few years but is also missing from this page.
I think you're reading way too much into this. If something is inserted into an article, it needs to have a reliable source backing it up, that's the way Wikipedia works. Your information is unsourced. It doesn't matter how "noteworthy" it is or not, if it isn't reliably sourced, it doesn't belong in the article. Simple as that. - Sudo Ghost 18:18, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
If it's besides the point, there's no point in discussing it, because it isn't related to improving the article, which is the purpose of an article talk page. If your webcomic is notable, find a reliable source showing this. If it was the first interactive comic, find a reliable source showing this. - Sudo Ghost 20:10, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Can someone write or link to an article on webcomic hosting sites? I know there are many of them now. Taptastic, ComicFury, probably a whole bunch of others.
in the introduction to the article it says that there where an estimated 38,000 webcomics in 2007. The problem is in the source of this information. It is apparently a short blogpost by Joey Manley (I say apparently because it is no longer in the original website. the link, from 2009, does not work any longer. I read it on a blog archive). It makes some wild assumptions without any justification, and in the end he says himself that this is not a reliable estimate. this is a link to the post I am refering to http://archive.is/ZAFf . because of this I am going to eliminate the sentence. I would recommend replacing it with something like the number of webcomics listed in popular websites that manage webcomics, because without an original academic study I don't think an approximation is good enough to be posted on wikipedia. Melquiades Babilonia ( talk) 20:13, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
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I've removed the link to Yanapax, a reader application. Can't seem to find any sources that this one is more relevant than all the other. I don't see the relevance of this link anyway. Regards Knud Winckelmann ( talk) 09:02, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
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I've seen "web comic" used more in writing and usage than "webcomic" and it also seems correct to write them as two separate words like "graphic novel" than to combine them into one. I wanted to know what the majority of people on here believe before making any important moves. Should this page remain "webcomic" or should it be renamed to "web comic"? AquilaXIII ( talk) 12:42, April 18, 2018 (UTC)
Hello,
since the 11-year-old discussion regarding T.H.E. Fox above, the claim that Witches & Stitches was the first webcomic has appeared in the article. However, in his recent book Webcomics, Sean Kleefeld is skeptical of this claim, writing about Eric Millikin, author of Witches & Stitches:
The interview cited was apparently published in the book Attitude 3: The New Subversive Online Cartoonists by Ted Rall. Kleefeld awards to T.H.E. Fox the more measured claim of being "One of the earliest (often considered the earliest)" webcomic. Kleefeld's book seems to me more reputable than the sources cited here, who provide no argument for their assertions. I would just edit the article, but since the claim is also repeated in other places ( History of webcomics, List of early webcomics, Eric Millikin, no further sources there except an assertion by Yahoo! Celebrity), and I'm more comfortable on German Wikipedia, I thought I'd ask for comments here first.
Thank you, -- Linseneintopf ( talk) 22:11, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I have started a discussion at Talk:Digital comic#Clarification needed to distinguish from Webcomic which affects both articles. 93 ( talk) 21:55, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2023 and 14 December 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Jinx Tunes (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Stevesuny ( talk) 14:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)