This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Wayne Williams article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page has repeatedly been the subject of childish, sometimes racist or homophobic, vandalism. I'll be keeping an eye on it, but others should, too. Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway. 23:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
== More Vandalism This article has clearly been heavily vandalised, I don't know anything about this subject but anyone who does should try and fix it.
This article needs to be locked from anon IPs. I added the unreferenced template, because it is sorely lacking, and in fact has NO citations. I'll try to work on it in the near future, but oh BOY is this a hot topic. I cleaned up vandalism today, which stated that he had escaped from prison! Anyone wanting to work on this with me, just say so on my talk page. Supertheman ( talk) 02:30, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Escaped from prison? Ha! I’m watching it. Miss E Kelly 15:26, 15 October 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ELKelly23 ( talk • contribs)
Wow, this whole article seems to be lacking a neutral point-of-view; it seems very "pro-Wayne-Williams", like the author doesn't believe he committed the murders (which is fine, but that bias shouldn't show in the article). 162.136.192.1 ( talk) 16:16, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Despite the fact that this page has been under vandal attack for 6 years now, and is regularly vandalized (was vandalized again today), this page was denied semi-protection for "insufficient disruptive activity". Some editors may want to watch this page to revert as necessary. 0x0077BE ( talk) 01:22, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
I have raised concerns about a source which is being used in this article at the
Reliable Sources Noticeboard. Editors are invited to participate.
—
Berean Hunter
(talk) 13:25, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
The first sentence of the first paragraph reads:
Wayne Bertram Williams (born May 27, 1958) is an American man convicted for committing most of the Atlanta Child Murders of 1979 through 1981.
Later in the first paragraph reads:
he has never been formally indicted nor tried for any of them.
So which is it? Was he convicted or not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SeriousTube ( talk • contribs) 02:48, 19 July 2015
He was convicted of two of the murders. The two murders that Williams was convicted of were adult men and had been placed on the official list of victims. So both statements are both true and false at the same time when read out of context. I believe the idea was that he was not convicted of more murders so that the Atlanta DA could try him for more later if he got off on these. Following the trial, the FBI task force concluded that there was enough evidence to link Williams to another 20 of the 29 deaths. Miss E Kelly 15:32, 15 October 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ELKelly23 ( talk • contribs)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Wayne Williams. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:50, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
The lede says Wayne Williams is "an American serial killer". However, since he was only found guilty for two murders and is controversially suspected of 23 others, it seems that that would it would be inappropriate to state even in the introduction that he's a serial killer without any elaboration. I would suggest changing this to "murderer" or "alleged serial killer." Snorepion ( talk) 22:45, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:37, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Since the edit warrior hasn't yet started a discussion, I will. In the interest of objectivity, at this point I'm not supporting either side of the debate. My main goal here is to point out that there are several issues at play. I ask other editors to add to these issues if I have omitted any. "Serial killer" (SK) has been in the article a while, making it the default consensus. As we know, however, consensus can change. From my understanding a source cited in the article identifies him as a SK. On the other hand, I suspect there are sources out there that do not identify him as a SK; but then we have the problem that it's generally impossible to prove a negative. Ideally Wikipedia's content should reflect the general consensus of reliable sources that know what they're talking about. The killings stopped after he was arrested, but should Wikipedia be synthesizing its own conclusions based on convictions that didn't happen? Serial killer cites several reliable sources that SK is defined as committing three or more murders. Sometimes sources disagree. Consistency on Wikipedia isn't mandatory but it's great when it can be achieved. Another issue is: where do we draw the line? If murdering two people defines SK, I suspect that are many, many articles about murderers that could become elevated to SK. Thanks in advance for the discussion. Sundayclose ( talk) 00:14, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
@Sundayclose: What in the name of facts could you possibly be talking about? That something is featured for any period of time in non-peer reviewed articles doesn't mean there is consensus. It means that people take for granted that the content creators/editors know what they are talking about and don't themselves feel it necessary to question it. As for consensus, this is not something subject to popular opinion. There are facts in this case, many of them undisputed. Among these is that the criminal justice system, not mere popular publications, used to support anything in such articles, defines (not opines) a serial killer as having murdered more than 2 people over a period of time. I'm confused- are you trying to contest a standing legal definition? Even is so, that's nullification at best. You state that you're sure there are other sources that do not consider Mr. Williams a serial killer, in conjunction with the 1 cited that allegedly does. Except the former is the whole of the United States justice system. The FBI, the Justice Department, the courts, law enforcement, and forensic psychologists, form the bases for such "consensus." Popular opinion among the populace does not. Again, the difference of fact vs. opinion. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that they carry the same weight. They do not. As for the supposed impossibility of proving a consensus, again countering fact with opinion does not render consensus asunder. It is not impossible to prove to the negative, as there is a standing definition that is agreed upon by its pertinent experts, and objectively Mr. Williams does not fit that definition. The killings having stopped at any point is circumstantial, and therefor has no bearing on the assertion that Mr. Williams is a serial killer. The convictions that "didn't happen" as you state, are where your whole effort comes undone. Those convictions didn't happen. Therefor, he is NOT GUILTY of them, because they didn't happen. Accordingly, with no convictions, he meets no standard of a proven serial killer. A standard set forth by the whole of the justice system. There's your consensus. And as for where to draw the line? Again, legal definitions are at play to supersede ill/misinformed opinion. It is not a standard of 2, but rather 3 or more, and I honestly don't know what you're talking about when you suggest the number is 2. You seem to be dealing exclusively in some notion that there is a debate to be had here when no facts whatsoever support that. It is disturbing that this must be explained to someone who edits an informative platform on a routine basis. Wikipedia is meant to reflect facts. The facts in this case are established to the extent that there is no room for doubt that Mr. Williams is simply not a serial killer, and that to assert otherwise in writing, while also being blatantly wrong, is in fact libel. There's no threat in that. It is, again, a statement of fact. I submit that anything short of this scrutiny is a failing of the facts, and possesses undue potential to defame a living human being. This does not reflect an opinion of you. That's the point- none of it does. Opining and establishing facts are two entirely different things with entirely different weight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.233.114.227 ( talk) 02:02, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
It is breathtaking the extent to which a few lay editors are taking it upon themselves to defame a living man as a serial killer of children, a notion that is objectively false (see all the credible sources that keep being deleted). This is a misleading label that does not apply to the man in question, by any credible stretch, that carries with it the potential for real world consequences that unduly affect the man in question. Editors, sitting behind the shield of a computer screen, toying with the life of a human being to make their point, pretending that there is some obligation to them (not the man who stands to reap this potential damage) to have them be consulted so that they may agree upon a falsehood that is ill-sourced and potentially libel. Facts have no such obligation. It is a clear violation of the site's own policies. It is not protected by this website, and is in fact potentially damaging to the site and its reputation. 47.233.114.227 ( talk) 15:46, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
We don’t need the serial killer definition on this page - maybe it should be on the talk page of the serial killer wiki? Miss E Kelly 15:35, 15 October 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ELKelly23 ( talk • contribs)
I think the Aftermath section should be reworked. Here is what I propose to change.
The first part of the opening sentence that reads "Williams was not tried for most of the Atlanta Child Murders" is factually incomplete and misleading since in fact he was not tried for any of them. I propose changing this sentence to read "Williams was never tried for any of the Atlanta Child Murders. However, police attributed 22 other deaths, including those of 18 minors, to Williams." This statement is supported by the currently referenced CNN "Victims..." article.
The second part of that sentence, plus the next sentence, currently reads "including that of Curtis Walker, age 13, whose body was dumped into Atlanta's South River in 1981. However, it was Walker's death which prompted the Atlanta Police and the FBI to conduct surveillance on Atlanta's bridges." This information is not appropriate for the Aftermath section, so I propose to remove it. Although I think it is extraneous to this article since it makes a statement about the police investigation into the murders rather than a statement about Williams, the subject of his article, I wouldn't object to adding something to the same effect in the "Atlanta murders" section. I'll leave that for another editor to do if they like.
Finally, the text reading "Williams became a suspect in May 1981 after being encountered by police near one of the bridges and was arrested the following month" is also not a statement about the aftermath of Williams' crimes, and it simply restates a fact that was more completely and clearly explained in the first paragraph of the earlier "Atlanta murders" section, so I propose to remove it.
I welcome any comments on this proposal. 67.188.1.213 ( talk) 19:25, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
Let's all take a step back, this is becoming unnecessarily confrontational. I don't see any demands in the proposal, only a request for comments. As such, the proposal can be ignored, addressed, dismissed, accepted, or reworked. At the moment it appears to be a mountain and molehill matter. The material quoted in the proposal has nothing to do with the _aftermath_. As such, it belongs elsewhere, whether here in this article or other associated articles is immaterial. I have no objection to its removal from the _aftermath_ section because it is non-sequitur in that location. Where else it might go, I don't really care. Anastrophe ( talk) 04:54, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
Sundayclose, please assume good faith. IP user did not canvass; I responded here _before_ any contact took place; advising a fellow editor of further discussion does not constitute canvassing; for the record, to the best of my knowledge I've never interacted with IP user before on Wikipedia, but at this point, I'm feeling like I should also add that I've never been a member of the Communist Party.... IP editor is engaged in good-faith discussion, and is not running roughshod over other editors. Please. Be. Civil. IP user has been entirely reasonable in their discussions here, making no demands of other editors, instead requesting comment and input.
Above, you have actually made the argument for the information being moved elsewhere, because you state "it was a major event that eventually led to the arrest of Williams" - precisely! It has nothing to do with AFTERMATH.
Here are the two paragraphs that constitute 'Aftermath':
Only the second paragraph constitutes "Aftermath". Sundayclose, you are welcome to move the information elsewhere, but as it is currently placed, it is non-sequitur and inappropriate. It is not aftermath. It's a snippet of commentary pertaining to the investigation of the Atlanta Child Murders, not 'aftermath' pertaining to Wayne Williams BLP, and since he was neither tried nor convicted of Curtis Walker's death, it literally adds nothing factual to the article. It belongs in the aforementioned Atlanta murders article. Anastrophe ( talk) 20:09, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
Well, unfortunately I may have discovered a bigger problem with the sentence in question: I can find no sources that back up the claim that 'it was Walker's death which prompted the Atlanta Police and the FBI to conduct surveillance on Atlanta's bridges." The existing source linked in the article is a dead domain. No problem, visit archive.org: https://web.archive.org/web/20070208173240/http://truthinjustice.org/wayne-williams.htm Problem: That article says precisely nothing to corroborate the claim that Walker's death was the specific catalyst. More searching...nope, not adding up. Walker was found dead March 6, 1981, in the Chattahoochee River.
surveillance of twelve bridges was established April 27, 1891.
I can find no attribution it was Walker's death that spawned the proposal; going by the fact that bridge surveillance was established the same day as Jimmy Ray Payne was found, that would tend to suggest his death was what prompted the proposal; however, that's speculation absent a source. Here's a link to the article with the above statistic, note, it's a PDF: https://fbistudies.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/FBI-Grapevien-Atlanta-Child-Murders-Susan-Lloyd.pdf
I could be wrong. This is not an exhaustive investigation on my part, but I have spent roughly an hour poking around. As I see it now, we have an unreferenced assertion, in the wrong place, in the wrong article. Again, I could be wrong and would welcome being corrected on the matter if so. Anastrophe ( talk) 23:19, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
I think it's utterly repulsive to refer to this man as a serial killer when he proclaims his innocence. What proof does Wikipedia itself have that he is such? None, I bet. I'm going to put it in quotes, because it's obviously just the opinion of the police. I swear, some naive people seem to think that the police can always be trusted, and any statement they make must be the "official" truth. Authority worshippers are truly pitiful. 139.168.130.225 ( talk) 01:51, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Wayne Williams article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page has repeatedly been the subject of childish, sometimes racist or homophobic, vandalism. I'll be keeping an eye on it, but others should, too. Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway. 23:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
== More Vandalism This article has clearly been heavily vandalised, I don't know anything about this subject but anyone who does should try and fix it.
This article needs to be locked from anon IPs. I added the unreferenced template, because it is sorely lacking, and in fact has NO citations. I'll try to work on it in the near future, but oh BOY is this a hot topic. I cleaned up vandalism today, which stated that he had escaped from prison! Anyone wanting to work on this with me, just say so on my talk page. Supertheman ( talk) 02:30, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Escaped from prison? Ha! I’m watching it. Miss E Kelly 15:26, 15 October 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ELKelly23 ( talk • contribs)
Wow, this whole article seems to be lacking a neutral point-of-view; it seems very "pro-Wayne-Williams", like the author doesn't believe he committed the murders (which is fine, but that bias shouldn't show in the article). 162.136.192.1 ( talk) 16:16, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Despite the fact that this page has been under vandal attack for 6 years now, and is regularly vandalized (was vandalized again today), this page was denied semi-protection for "insufficient disruptive activity". Some editors may want to watch this page to revert as necessary. 0x0077BE ( talk) 01:22, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
I have raised concerns about a source which is being used in this article at the
Reliable Sources Noticeboard. Editors are invited to participate.
—
Berean Hunter
(talk) 13:25, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
The first sentence of the first paragraph reads:
Wayne Bertram Williams (born May 27, 1958) is an American man convicted for committing most of the Atlanta Child Murders of 1979 through 1981.
Later in the first paragraph reads:
he has never been formally indicted nor tried for any of them.
So which is it? Was he convicted or not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SeriousTube ( talk • contribs) 02:48, 19 July 2015
He was convicted of two of the murders. The two murders that Williams was convicted of were adult men and had been placed on the official list of victims. So both statements are both true and false at the same time when read out of context. I believe the idea was that he was not convicted of more murders so that the Atlanta DA could try him for more later if he got off on these. Following the trial, the FBI task force concluded that there was enough evidence to link Williams to another 20 of the 29 deaths. Miss E Kelly 15:32, 15 October 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ELKelly23 ( talk • contribs)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Wayne Williams. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:50, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
The lede says Wayne Williams is "an American serial killer". However, since he was only found guilty for two murders and is controversially suspected of 23 others, it seems that that would it would be inappropriate to state even in the introduction that he's a serial killer without any elaboration. I would suggest changing this to "murderer" or "alleged serial killer." Snorepion ( talk) 22:45, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:37, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Since the edit warrior hasn't yet started a discussion, I will. In the interest of objectivity, at this point I'm not supporting either side of the debate. My main goal here is to point out that there are several issues at play. I ask other editors to add to these issues if I have omitted any. "Serial killer" (SK) has been in the article a while, making it the default consensus. As we know, however, consensus can change. From my understanding a source cited in the article identifies him as a SK. On the other hand, I suspect there are sources out there that do not identify him as a SK; but then we have the problem that it's generally impossible to prove a negative. Ideally Wikipedia's content should reflect the general consensus of reliable sources that know what they're talking about. The killings stopped after he was arrested, but should Wikipedia be synthesizing its own conclusions based on convictions that didn't happen? Serial killer cites several reliable sources that SK is defined as committing three or more murders. Sometimes sources disagree. Consistency on Wikipedia isn't mandatory but it's great when it can be achieved. Another issue is: where do we draw the line? If murdering two people defines SK, I suspect that are many, many articles about murderers that could become elevated to SK. Thanks in advance for the discussion. Sundayclose ( talk) 00:14, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
@Sundayclose: What in the name of facts could you possibly be talking about? That something is featured for any period of time in non-peer reviewed articles doesn't mean there is consensus. It means that people take for granted that the content creators/editors know what they are talking about and don't themselves feel it necessary to question it. As for consensus, this is not something subject to popular opinion. There are facts in this case, many of them undisputed. Among these is that the criminal justice system, not mere popular publications, used to support anything in such articles, defines (not opines) a serial killer as having murdered more than 2 people over a period of time. I'm confused- are you trying to contest a standing legal definition? Even is so, that's nullification at best. You state that you're sure there are other sources that do not consider Mr. Williams a serial killer, in conjunction with the 1 cited that allegedly does. Except the former is the whole of the United States justice system. The FBI, the Justice Department, the courts, law enforcement, and forensic psychologists, form the bases for such "consensus." Popular opinion among the populace does not. Again, the difference of fact vs. opinion. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that they carry the same weight. They do not. As for the supposed impossibility of proving a consensus, again countering fact with opinion does not render consensus asunder. It is not impossible to prove to the negative, as there is a standing definition that is agreed upon by its pertinent experts, and objectively Mr. Williams does not fit that definition. The killings having stopped at any point is circumstantial, and therefor has no bearing on the assertion that Mr. Williams is a serial killer. The convictions that "didn't happen" as you state, are where your whole effort comes undone. Those convictions didn't happen. Therefor, he is NOT GUILTY of them, because they didn't happen. Accordingly, with no convictions, he meets no standard of a proven serial killer. A standard set forth by the whole of the justice system. There's your consensus. And as for where to draw the line? Again, legal definitions are at play to supersede ill/misinformed opinion. It is not a standard of 2, but rather 3 or more, and I honestly don't know what you're talking about when you suggest the number is 2. You seem to be dealing exclusively in some notion that there is a debate to be had here when no facts whatsoever support that. It is disturbing that this must be explained to someone who edits an informative platform on a routine basis. Wikipedia is meant to reflect facts. The facts in this case are established to the extent that there is no room for doubt that Mr. Williams is simply not a serial killer, and that to assert otherwise in writing, while also being blatantly wrong, is in fact libel. There's no threat in that. It is, again, a statement of fact. I submit that anything short of this scrutiny is a failing of the facts, and possesses undue potential to defame a living human being. This does not reflect an opinion of you. That's the point- none of it does. Opining and establishing facts are two entirely different things with entirely different weight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.233.114.227 ( talk) 02:02, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
It is breathtaking the extent to which a few lay editors are taking it upon themselves to defame a living man as a serial killer of children, a notion that is objectively false (see all the credible sources that keep being deleted). This is a misleading label that does not apply to the man in question, by any credible stretch, that carries with it the potential for real world consequences that unduly affect the man in question. Editors, sitting behind the shield of a computer screen, toying with the life of a human being to make their point, pretending that there is some obligation to them (not the man who stands to reap this potential damage) to have them be consulted so that they may agree upon a falsehood that is ill-sourced and potentially libel. Facts have no such obligation. It is a clear violation of the site's own policies. It is not protected by this website, and is in fact potentially damaging to the site and its reputation. 47.233.114.227 ( talk) 15:46, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
We don’t need the serial killer definition on this page - maybe it should be on the talk page of the serial killer wiki? Miss E Kelly 15:35, 15 October 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ELKelly23 ( talk • contribs)
I think the Aftermath section should be reworked. Here is what I propose to change.
The first part of the opening sentence that reads "Williams was not tried for most of the Atlanta Child Murders" is factually incomplete and misleading since in fact he was not tried for any of them. I propose changing this sentence to read "Williams was never tried for any of the Atlanta Child Murders. However, police attributed 22 other deaths, including those of 18 minors, to Williams." This statement is supported by the currently referenced CNN "Victims..." article.
The second part of that sentence, plus the next sentence, currently reads "including that of Curtis Walker, age 13, whose body was dumped into Atlanta's South River in 1981. However, it was Walker's death which prompted the Atlanta Police and the FBI to conduct surveillance on Atlanta's bridges." This information is not appropriate for the Aftermath section, so I propose to remove it. Although I think it is extraneous to this article since it makes a statement about the police investigation into the murders rather than a statement about Williams, the subject of his article, I wouldn't object to adding something to the same effect in the "Atlanta murders" section. I'll leave that for another editor to do if they like.
Finally, the text reading "Williams became a suspect in May 1981 after being encountered by police near one of the bridges and was arrested the following month" is also not a statement about the aftermath of Williams' crimes, and it simply restates a fact that was more completely and clearly explained in the first paragraph of the earlier "Atlanta murders" section, so I propose to remove it.
I welcome any comments on this proposal. 67.188.1.213 ( talk) 19:25, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
Let's all take a step back, this is becoming unnecessarily confrontational. I don't see any demands in the proposal, only a request for comments. As such, the proposal can be ignored, addressed, dismissed, accepted, or reworked. At the moment it appears to be a mountain and molehill matter. The material quoted in the proposal has nothing to do with the _aftermath_. As such, it belongs elsewhere, whether here in this article or other associated articles is immaterial. I have no objection to its removal from the _aftermath_ section because it is non-sequitur in that location. Where else it might go, I don't really care. Anastrophe ( talk) 04:54, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
Sundayclose, please assume good faith. IP user did not canvass; I responded here _before_ any contact took place; advising a fellow editor of further discussion does not constitute canvassing; for the record, to the best of my knowledge I've never interacted with IP user before on Wikipedia, but at this point, I'm feeling like I should also add that I've never been a member of the Communist Party.... IP editor is engaged in good-faith discussion, and is not running roughshod over other editors. Please. Be. Civil. IP user has been entirely reasonable in their discussions here, making no demands of other editors, instead requesting comment and input.
Above, you have actually made the argument for the information being moved elsewhere, because you state "it was a major event that eventually led to the arrest of Williams" - precisely! It has nothing to do with AFTERMATH.
Here are the two paragraphs that constitute 'Aftermath':
Only the second paragraph constitutes "Aftermath". Sundayclose, you are welcome to move the information elsewhere, but as it is currently placed, it is non-sequitur and inappropriate. It is not aftermath. It's a snippet of commentary pertaining to the investigation of the Atlanta Child Murders, not 'aftermath' pertaining to Wayne Williams BLP, and since he was neither tried nor convicted of Curtis Walker's death, it literally adds nothing factual to the article. It belongs in the aforementioned Atlanta murders article. Anastrophe ( talk) 20:09, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
Well, unfortunately I may have discovered a bigger problem with the sentence in question: I can find no sources that back up the claim that 'it was Walker's death which prompted the Atlanta Police and the FBI to conduct surveillance on Atlanta's bridges." The existing source linked in the article is a dead domain. No problem, visit archive.org: https://web.archive.org/web/20070208173240/http://truthinjustice.org/wayne-williams.htm Problem: That article says precisely nothing to corroborate the claim that Walker's death was the specific catalyst. More searching...nope, not adding up. Walker was found dead March 6, 1981, in the Chattahoochee River.
surveillance of twelve bridges was established April 27, 1891.
I can find no attribution it was Walker's death that spawned the proposal; going by the fact that bridge surveillance was established the same day as Jimmy Ray Payne was found, that would tend to suggest his death was what prompted the proposal; however, that's speculation absent a source. Here's a link to the article with the above statistic, note, it's a PDF: https://fbistudies.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/FBI-Grapevien-Atlanta-Child-Murders-Susan-Lloyd.pdf
I could be wrong. This is not an exhaustive investigation on my part, but I have spent roughly an hour poking around. As I see it now, we have an unreferenced assertion, in the wrong place, in the wrong article. Again, I could be wrong and would welcome being corrected on the matter if so. Anastrophe ( talk) 23:19, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
I think it's utterly repulsive to refer to this man as a serial killer when he proclaims his innocence. What proof does Wikipedia itself have that he is such? None, I bet. I'm going to put it in quotes, because it's obviously just the opinion of the police. I swear, some naive people seem to think that the police can always be trusted, and any statement they make must be the "official" truth. Authority worshippers are truly pitiful. 139.168.130.225 ( talk) 01:51, 2 October 2021 (UTC)