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I'm very surprised that the Criticism section does not include references to the Ackerman McQueen controversy of 2019. Mr LaPierre received withering public criticism for his spending, as did the agency who worked with the NRA. This was covered extensively in WSJ, NY Times, WaPo, and others. 76.118.42.231 ( talk) 02:17, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
Same. Dcsutherland ( talk) 14:44, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
It seems more accurate to say that La Pierre is a gun rights advocate rather than a Second Amendment advocate. He does support a very specific interpretation of the Second Amendment but is against other interpretations of it. This is different than generally supporting it. -- Calan ( talk) 00:01, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
It really seems that his position is one of advocating gun rights rather than broadly advocating the Second Amendment, since the latter is a matter of interpretation which may or may not favor the right of certain people to possess certain types of guns. This interview- http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june10/guns2_06-28.html#transcript- indicates his position, which is clearly one of advocating gun rights. I would think it should be mentioned first that he is a gun rights advocate, then link it with how such advocacy relates to the Second Amendment. That would seem to cover his position, plus obliquely connecting the two dimensions for readers to investigate if they wish. 137.111.13.167 ( talk) 05:35, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Let the edit wars commence. For the record I support gun rights ...to a point. I've also served the US taxpayers and defended the US Constitution for twelve years now. Mr. LaPierre is very well known for his conspiracy theories regarding Clinton/Obama and any liberal President, which is not reflected in this article. I present the motion that this article should reflect such, esp. the recent stuff about Obama taking confiscating guns as soon as he's re-elected. All in favour say "Aye." Pär Larsson ( talk) 21:17, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
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Please add: Mr. LaPierre received a medical deferment for the Vietnam War draft and has never served in the military. Source: http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html; Lawrence O'Donnell Show, MSNBC, December 21, 2012. Lawdini ( talk) 15:36, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
I'm surprised there is no criticism in this story, even the response to his Sandy Hook speech.
It got a huge response from WP:RSs, so Wikipedia guidelines, such as WP:NPOV and WP:WEIGHT require it to be in the article.
Here's a nice summary from The Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/22/nra-lapierre-statement-pilloried-newspapers which includes the responses of many WP:RSs. Some of the strongest statements are in the New York Daily News http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/america-mad-gunman-article-1.1225123 -- Nbauman ( talk) 19:12, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
Among the many ways in which this article might be improved:
At the statement "In the wake of the the Oklahoma City bombing, LaPierre wrote a fundraising letter describing federal agents as 'jack-booted government thugs' " the article might as well provide a link to the said letter—for instance a link that provides the whole text of the letter—or at least to further information about the letter. Leigh Oats ( talk) 04:42, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
In 1995, National Rifle Association (NRA) Executive Vice-president Wayne LaPierre sparked controversy when he referred to federal agents as "jackbooted government thugs"; the comment caused former U.S. President George H.W. Bush to cancel his lifetime membership in the organization. The resignation of so public a figure as Mr. Bush prompted an open letter from the association to the former president to be published in major newspapers; the letter included a litany of alleged and settled cases of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms abuses and an assertion that LaPierre and the NRA were merely borrowing a well-worn phrase uttered by other public figures in their calls for reform of the agency, among them Representative John Dingell of Michigan.[9]
“Do not patronize the passionate supporters of your opponents by looking down your nose at them,” Clinton said. “A lot of these people live in a world very different from the world lived in by the people proposing these things,” Clinton said. “I know because I come from this world.”
Context matters. I would rewrite the opening to: "In 1995, in the aftermath of the standoff at Ruby Ridge and the Waco siege and the refusal of the Clinton Administration to address concerns about militarization of federal law enforcement raised by NRA, ACLU, and a dozen other rights groups, LaPierre wrote a fundraising letter and took out an ad in USA Today describing federal agents as "jack-booted government thugs" who wear "Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms to attack law-abiding citizens.""
The judge advocate and legal adviser for US Army special forces wrote on these issues in detail in less colorful but more legalistic language in the US Army War College Quarterly Parameters. Thomas R. Lujan, "Legal Aspects of Domestic Employment of the Army", Parameters US Army War College Quarterly, Autumn 1997, Vol. XXVII, No. 3.
The adoption of military rules of engagement and weaponry in domestic law enforcement is still an issue today and it won't be solved by demonizing its critics. -- Naaman Brown ( talk) 10:22, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Criticisms of LaPierre that I added were removed by ROG5728 citing WP:BLP. However, BLP rules clearly state that if contentious material is properly sourced, it is permissable. Since my edit includes numerous reliable third party citations, and it is verifiable that these these people said these things, the edit is not a violation of BLP. Comments about a person do not get to be removed just because they reflect negatively on the person. Adding criticism can help to balance an article -- even a BLP -- and there is plenty of positive stuff about Wayne LaPierre here. If you'd like to discuss this further, please comment below, but please do not remove my properly sourced and cited edits. Athene cunicularia ( talk) 03:30, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Do you see any praise included in the article? No, not a bit, so your additions violate WP:BLP on that basis alone (not to mention WP:NPOV). The addition is also UNDUE because it's all related to one press conference on one event. There was already some criticism of Wayne LaPierre in this article (from a Clinton White House spokesperson, nonetheless) and that's more than enough. There is no need to fill this article with more criticisms of Wayne LaPierre. This article is about the man, it's not about what critics think of him. You're not going to get your way by reverting and adding the content back over and over, either. ROG5728 ( talk) 07:12, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Per WP:BLP, unsourced or poorly sourced material about living persons must be removed immediately. The source recently added by Zeamays (and removed by myself) is a laughably slanted opinion piece that spends 90% of its time talking about how stupid and evil they think Wayne is. Zeamays, take your POV pushing elsewhere. It won't be tolerated in BLP articles. ROG5728 ( talk) 01:25, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
ROG is apparently patrolling ths article to eliminate facts that don't fit his WP:POV. He is improperly reverting references to an error made by LaPierre, the reference to the facts is a transcript. To avoid an acccusation of WP:OR, I added a statement from a newspaper that described the error explicitly. It need not be an unbiased ref, because the error can easily be seen in the transcript. So you can't have it both ways. LaPierre's salary is from a reference on salaries of non-profit execs, reliable and notable. Or do you think it's something of which LaPierre should be ashamed? Not POV, but fact. -- Zeamays ( talk) 03:29, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
:BRD is not a policy. This means it is not a process that you can require other editors to follow.
- Note:"BRD" is commonly used to refer to the principle that a revert should not be reverted again by the same editors until the changes have been discussed, as that could constitute edit warring, which is a policy that all editors must follow.
- BRD is not a valid excuse for reverting good-faith efforts to improve a page simply because you don't like the changes. Don't invoke BRD as your reason for reverting someone else's work or for edit warring: instead, provide a reason that is based on policies, guidelines, or common sense.
- BRD is not an excuse to revert any change more than once. If your reversion is met with another bold effort, then you should consider not reverting, but discussing. The talk page is open to all editors, not just bold ones. The first person to start a discussion is the person who is best following BRD.
Have to agree with ROG on this. The Opinion piece is extrememly slanted and not usable for anything within a BLP. Furthermore the presentation of the information by Zeamays is highly POVish. WP is not a place to promote your personal attacks on living people. Arzel ( talk) 15:26, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
So far, there seem to be four editors that have spoken out against you and none for you. The material you added to the article is a violation of WP:NPOV (specifically WP:UNDUE) and WP:BLP. It's not at all noteworthy, and its inclusion in this BLP article serves only to advance an agenda against the NRA. And yes, the fact that you think the NRA's argument against background checks "hinges" on this point in LaPierre's speech indicates to me that you don't have a clear understanding of this subject. That's not an uncivil comment, it's just a polite expression of the truth. You keep talking about "airing all sides of controversies" but I only see you pushing one POV (yours) in all of your edits. ROG5728 ( talk) 18:47, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
I was checking a story on the NRA firearms museum and ended up here. The contested edit: "In January 2013, LaPierre testified to a U.S. Senate Committee against increased firearms regulation, including opposition to universal background checks for firearms purchases. He claimed that only 62 firearms offenses were prosecuted in the U.S. in 2012, a number that documents indicated was less than of the actual number, which was more than 11,700." The context was universal background checks. There were not 11,700 prosecutions for "lie to buy" failing background checks. This federal firearms felony, someone on the NICS "prohibited person" database trying to buy a gun but failing a background check after signing the FF 4473 firearms transaction affidavit that they are not a prohibited person, has always been underprosecuted. Still is underprosecuted. Government Accounting Office September 2018 Report Few Individuals Denied Firearms Purchases Are Prosecuted...." Federal National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) Firearms Denial Cases Investigated and Prosecuted, Fiscal Year 2017 8,606,286 Federal NICS Transactions 112,090 Denials 12,710 ATF Field Division Investigations 12 United States Attorney’s Offices Prosecutions [of 2017 denials by 2018] One reason there are so few prosecutions of people who try to buy a gun but are denied by the NICS BG check is (a) the authorities say their desired goal is to prevent purchases not prosecute prohibited purchase attempts, or (b) the authorities know the NICS data base has crappy info and there are a lot of people on the "prohibited person" list who don't belong there (conversely even more people who should be, but aren't). -- Naaman Brown ( talk) 19:32, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
This article has been degrading over the last month and I'm seeing many of the usual faces here that have degraded other good articles on Wikipedia. If you're an activist (and I think we know who you are now), without a genuine intent on improving the article and instead here for POV pushing please go away, you're making the work of good editors much harder and increasing the workload on genuine good editors and copyeditors who will invariably have to come here and clean up the sad mess you're creating. Wikipedia is not a place for you to conduct your activism, pro or anti gun. This article will be heavily cleaned up in the near future and your POV pushing will be removed summarily . Remember this article is a biography of a living person and violations of WP:BLP must be removed immediately. WP:BRD is a dispute resolution mechanism that all editors must adhere to. If your edit is reverted per WP:BRD by any editor, you are required to discuss and reach consensus on the talk before inserting the rewritten material into the article. If you edit war, you will be blocked.- Justanonymous ( talk) 18:36, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
OK, I'll address specific individuals. HiLo48, I respect you in immeasurable ways. You truly have a clarity of thought that I admire. With regard to the perceived bashing of Zeamays, this person's actions (edits) speak for themselves. I respectfully submit the following.
I reviewed
Zeamays' edit history
[2] and discovered that prior to the Sandy Hook incident he had little (seemingly no) interest in firearm related articles. So if an accusation is to be made its that
Zeamays has become a "situational activist" here on WP. I'm not saying this is a bad thing,
Zeamays is one of many that have been inspired to edit WP because of that horrendous event. This edit has been made at the request of Zeamays and the
urging of
Admin Moriori. I think this addresses the substantive portion of their concerns. --
Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (
talk)
01:31, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
That said Zeamays has made edits to the following articles starting with the December 15, 2012 edit of:
I won't characterize the edits, I'll let others review them and form their own opinion. The discussions on the associated Talk pages seem equally revealing to me.-- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... ( talk) 00:06, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
I won't take a side on this issue of gun control, but I can say that this man- regardless of his political sanity- has become a literal shooting target for proponents of gun control. Activists have, once again, seized control of this article, subjecting it to outrageously one sided criticism. LaPierre's statements are paraphrased in ways to make them appear ridiculous, even if they are. A true testament of a fair individual is one who is able to withstand the viewpoint of both sides. Although Wikipedia may contain a disproportionately small number of 2nd amendment advocates, it is unfair and immoral to slander one man and slant one article. I am sure I will be torn apart for advocating some basic neutrality of decency, and that many will turn a blind eye and claim this article suits Wikipedia's standards. If that is so, it is Wikipedia's readers that lose out, not the pro-gun lobby. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.228.133.172 ( talk) 02:19, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
Right, and the incident you're wanting to add is not noteworthy, not relevant, and not well-documented. Actually, it couldn't even be described as an "incident" in the first place. LaPierre may have made an error in a speech. So what? ROG5728 ( talk) 06:43, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
ROG - you really aren't very good at discussing things. You asked a question (So what?). I answered it. And then, rather than responding to my answer, which is how a discussion works, you deflected it with another question, in a shallow kind of way common to tabloid media and populist TV talk shows, and not the way we need to work at a serious encyclopaedia. I'm new to this Talk page. So far, I'm not impressed. So, shall we try again? Remember, we're talking about THIS article, not others. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS covers that. LaPierre, a very public person, stuffed up. It simply IS highly notable to the media, obviously, because it got plenty of attention. The immediate question was whether that stuff up was just a simple mistake, and not his true position, or was it truly representative of his level of knowledge and understanding. I don't know the answer. Do you? Obviously, if it's the latter, it matters a lot. HiLo48 ( talk) 19:59, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
HiLo, your "answer" to me was a non-answer, and I responded to it by pointing out that there is no such thing as a public figure who hasn't made an error in some speech at some point in time, and it's not notable at all; nor does it befit a BLP article to nitpick a public figure over something like that in the article. Then again, I'm repeating myself now; reading comprehension is your responsibility, not mine. No one referenced "other stuff" as a basis for what to do in this article, they referenced WP:BLP and WP:UNDUE. ROG5728 ( talk) 00:19, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Zeamays, I was quoting the other editor; and directly quoting another editor is not "disparagement." Stop trying to make an issue where one doesn't exist. If you want to take issue with something, take issue with the editor throwing out personal attacks. ROG5728 ( talk) 18:23, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
The only disparaging comment made was the one I referenced earlier from HiLo, where he called the rest of us "nutters." I already corrected myself by pointing out that the comment was made by him, and not you. I'm not going to delete talk page comments without a good reason. Now, if you don't have anything on-topic to contribute to this discussion, please don't post in it. I would like to discuss the content with HiLo; namely, the insertion that violates WP:BLP and WP:UNDUE. ROG5728 ( talk) 21:12, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
FWIW, LaPierre's intentional/non-intentional blunder, should be mentioned. Afterall, he's the NRA's Executive Vice President. GoodDay ( talk) 08:40, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I don't think that I seen a worse case of immense bias in a BLP that this one. Nearly the whole thing (including the selection and presentation of content) looks like a hatchet job rather than an article on a person. Even down to the choice the choice of a "mug shot" angled picture on the second one. (camera below where their face is aiming) And that without the material on an error or whatever that people are trying to put in. North8000 ( talk) 11:46, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
References
Newtown board wants more cops in schools
I'm a little stunned by this... -- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... ( talk) 00:29, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
"isn't it surprising then that newtown, the victims of a horrific mass murder, would now unanimously call for armed guards" Wow, some people don't know how to read. The Board of Selectmen - which may only be three people - was unanimous, not the freaking town. And commentary on Sandy Hook really doesn't belong in this awful person's Bio here on WP. It belongs in other articles. Huw Powell ( talk) 03:31, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
The current state of this article is that criticisms of LaPierre's public statements are described thus, "so and so criticized and so and so criticized, etc." The basis for each criticism is unstated. This does not provide the reader with needed information to understand the debate. For an example of how that should work, see the article on Gabrielle Giffords, in which her critics' positions are briefly explained. -- Zeamays ( talk) 14:01, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
It's original research, but this criminal engages in robocalling. I can't add this to the to the article, but this man has called my phone in violation of Federal Laws multiple times. He is a bad man, and a criminal. Huw Powell ( talk) 08:11, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
You must be pretty special if Wayne LaPierre (rather than the NRA) is personally handling the robocalling for you. :-) North8000 ( talk) 11:37, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
Where was the NRA support when the I-594 came up for a vote in Washington State this past November election day? I put in a considerable amount of time and money trying to get the word out on the very bad law I-594 vs. I-594 the good law, that was also supported by several thousand Washington State law enforcement officers. You say that the NRA is always there for the membership! I did not see one televised NRA anti I-594 commercial put on by the NRA establishment, letting the people know what was in the hidden pages of the law. You say that the membership dues is not enough money to keep the NRA going, well you can count me out, I will not send you anymore fanatical support until I see the NRA vocal support that will be needed to wake up the voting community.
This is not the forum for discussing Wiki policies. I see a lively discussion about lack of criticism of WLP in the article. Some ask, if we include criticisms, where does it stop? Others say, why no criticisms? Forgive me for creating this as a new section but I see the talk thus far disjointed. In the past, I've seen many Wiki articles, specifically on politicians, that had a section called 'Criticism'. Now I can't find any on pages of major politicians, or celebrities (like Brad Pitt). However, organizations (like the UN) have sections with the term 'criticism' in the heading.
We can debate whether WLP is a conspiracy theorist, nutjob, etc, or not. The fact is he is the executive of an organization that aggressively, vehemently, and proactively litigates on behalf of gun rights (the litigation well documented in Wiki, especially in the SCOTUS Heller v DC case aftermath. We can all concede the NRA does this under his leadership and draws from his efforts. Having said that we can all also conclude that he has a very specific agenda. The article has a single section entitled 'views on gun control' and the way it's written indicates one of WLP's PR people wrote it, or maybe himself in some "WLP Doctrine" on gun control because it is a sanitized list of simple, clear, specific, and bite-sized positions on specific aspects of the gun control debate. This is a slighty-less-than-blatant attempt to paint WLP in a specific, positive light. Given his extensive public speaking, published pieces, and the extent of litigation under his leadership, we can conclude there is more to him and his agenda than is reflected in this article.
My point: as a reader, it does not make sense to me how someone who is the chief of an organization that is so fervently opposed to gun control, it concocts strategies on what cases to present to SCOTUS and when, and the likelihood of getting pro-agenda actions passed (, has such a sanitized Wiki page. The guy has written a book, as cited, called "The Global War on Your Guns (2006)". I haven't read the book, but I suspect that he also believes that governments and powerful organizations are actively and clandestinely attempting to take guns away from people. This is not cited as one of his views on gun control.
I propose the following changes: 1) If the section is to be titled 'views on gun control', every bullet point must have a citation, or at least be marked as 'citation needed'. Considering half of the current bullets have no citation, there should be a warning about lack of sources. 2) Include a section on his motivations and feelings about gun rights and possession in general. Azadi { ( talk) 05:06, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
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The article on Wayne LaPierre lists his year of birth as 1949, but at the bottom of the article, under "Categories", it has him on a list of people born in 1948, where his name does, in fact, appear.
/info/en/?search=Wayne_LaPierre https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Category:1948_births&from=L
Doctor99~enwiki ( talk) 14:32, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
This text has been removed repeatedly:
In January 2012, LaPierre testified to a U.S. Senate Committee against increased firearms regulation, including opposition to universal background checks for firearms purchases. He claimed that only 62 firearms offenses were prosecuted in the U.S. in 2012, a number that documents indicated was only 1/200 of the actual number, which has risen during the Obama administration. [1]
In an article about a gun ontrol advocate, this text has been added repeatedly:
On the April 18, 2007, episode of MSNBC's program Tucker, Tucker Carlson interviewed McCarthy about the Virginia Tech massacre and her proposed reauthorization of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. He asked her to explain the need to regulate barrel shrouds, one of the many provisions included in her bill. She did not directly respond, instead stating it was more important that the legislation would ban large capacity "clips" (sic) of the type used in the Virginia Tech massacre and that the class of guns chosen prohibited by the law were those used by gangs and killers of police officers. That statement was factually incorrect; Cho's largest magazines held fifteen rounds, thus making them illegal under the AWB. [2] When Carlson pressed her twice more on the question about barrel shrouds, she admitted that she did not know what a barrel shroud was, and incorrectly stated, "I believe it is a shoulder thing that goes up." Carlson replied with, "No, No it's not." [3] [4] [5] [6]
Can anyone give me a good reason why these two gaffes are being treated differently? Felsic2 ( talk) 19:55, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
References
There are arguments here about whether particular text or ideas are WP:UNDUE.
I recommend that you refer to the following definition from WP:NPV
In other words, the way to determine whether a particular topic in the article has due or undue weight is to see how prominent those viewpoints are in WP:RS. If a particular statement by LaPierre or by his critics is repeated in multiple WP:RS, then it meets WP:UNDUE and belongs in the article. I think that a dozen references from major newspapers, broadcasting and digital sources such as New York Times, Washington Post, ABC, etc. would establish weight.
It is not a valid argument for somebody to simply say, "I think [in my opinion] this gives too much emphasis to an unimportant issue," if that issue has been covered by many WP:RS. -- Nbauman ( talk) 19:55, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
Ok, this dispute is so absurd that it feels even strange trying to discuss it. DHeyward has made the assertion that LaPierre is not a conservative and remove the relevant info from the article. Funny that. He's given multiple speeches and addresses at the American Conservative Union, "America’s oldest and largest grassroots conservative organization" [3] [4] [5], the source I added (which DHeyward removed after asking me to add a source!) refers to him as a "conservative leader" [6], another source puts him in "the conservative orbit" [7], the guy rants about a "violent left" (sic) [8] and he refers to himself as a conservative [9].
Seriously, why is this even up for debate? It's sorta hard to take this kind of obfuscation seriously. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 07:08, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
Easily sourced, counterclaim is ridiculous. 'The firearms industry needs more customers' is a conservative position to take, regardless of party affliation. PeterTheFourth ( talk) 07:11, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
We’ve got 5 million active NRA members, 25 million more who consider themselves NRA members, and we have gun owners and Second Amendment supporters all over this country. So if you are a member of the leftist media or a soldier for the violent left, a violent criminal, a drug cartel gang member or a would-be terrorist, hear this: You’re not going to win and you will not defeat us.Even if you subscribe to the belief that being in favor of gun ownership rights is conservative, it's a single conservative position that doesn't define a persons ideology. Being a pro-life advocate is a conservative position but it hardly qualifies calling the Pope "conservative" based on a single position. Again, find a source that says he is a conservative activist and not just a single issue advocate. -- DHeyward ( talk) 07:55, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
“Wayne, I would say they know you,” said Trump, referring to the group of conservative leaders."Wayne" isn't part of the group which is why "they" are referred to separately in the source. LaPierre believes that gun owners are being attacked by the "leftist media" but that doesn't mean that he believes the "leftist media" is limiting their attack to conservative gun owners or that all gun owners are therefore conservative. If you don't understand the difference between single issue advocacy vs. an entire ideology, perhaps you shouldn't be editing these types of articles. If you can't understand that being just for "gun rights" or "pro-life" doesn't make a person a conservative, nor does being against the death penalty make someone liberal. Try to pigeonhole a pro-life and anti-death penalty priest as a liberal or conservative and you should be able to reason why the inference is so poor. If the priest then asks liberals to donate to end the death penalty and asks conservatives to end abortion even you should be able to see labeling a persons ideology on single issue positions is poor reasoning. "Conservative" is simply an inaccurate label without foundation as his views beyond gun rights are unknown. Perhaps it is easier to explain Gun Violence Archive to you - it's non-partisan and founded by gun owner and former NRA member Mark Bryant. Extrapolating whether Bryant is "liberal" or "conservative" is just as pointless and fruitless and baseless. Bryant and his statistics are opposed by many gun rights advocates as they believe it conflicts with their ideology. But that doesn't make Bryant "liberal" or his archive "partisan" no matter where he speaks or who donates money to his group. These are single issue individuals, not an ideology. The only "game" is accurately describing them and not pigeon holing people into boxes they don't ascribe to. -- DHeyward ( talk) 10:10, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
"In response to LaPierre's claim that "we," which likely meant conservatives considering the audience, "are the majority in this country,
" -
[10].
PeterTheFourth (
talk)
00:49, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
"which likely meant conservatives considering the audience""Which likely meant" is an assumption and not a confirmation. What is the full context? Regardless, still nothing stating that LaPierre is a Conservative and no direct quote from him. This is still classic WP:SYNTH as well as WP:OR. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 00:56, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
Old citation is 404. New citation should be: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/530116130/201623149349300602/IRS990 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericscoles ( talk • contribs) 16:20, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
According to the Washington Post, salary cited here is inaccurate. He gets about a million a year. The 2015 salary was exceptional because he had a pension fund payout which he had to take or lose. That boosted the salary past the norm. Theonemacduff ( talk) 23:07, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
There are several articles that discuss Mr. LaPierre's activities as a Democrat in Virginia. These include references to his work on the McGovern campaign in Virginia [1]
Also, from his official NRA biography [2], it would be relevant to include his activity as an NRA lobbyist for the NRA-ILA both regionally and as its national director before he became the Executive Vice President. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swazman ( talk • contribs) 14:35, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
References
For over 30 years, their primary recruitment tactic has been open and willful violation of 18 USC Sect. 2385, "Advocating Overthrow". This needs to be documented. This can be documented from their own sources and advertising, as well as the resultant violence and Terrorism that has resulted from this strategy to recruit new members, primarily the mentally deranged.
As for the Russia factor, this is a developing story, and appears that Russia has used the NRA's "Advocating Overthrow" strategy to destabilize the United States of America, as well as to seat Donald Trump. This is a developing story, and it appears that arrests will be made.
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article214075459.html "Russia investigators likely got access to NRA's tax filings, secret donors" (McClatchy, DC Bureau)
Also, The Advocating Overthrow strategy, as well as the Russia factor have to have been signed off by LaPierre. Someone deleted this talk section. This needs to be in the article, whomever deleted this section a few minutes ago must approve of the Overthrow of the United States Government, or of Russia's activities using the NRA and Wayne LaPierre. They were not duped, and this is how the history books will read. Will political bullshit keep what the history books will contain out of the WikiPedia article because it gives Christian Conservatives "bad optics"? This is a serious proposal, and what will be coming to the article is well researched, with dates, advertising contract numbers, etc, all third party sourced and within the guidelines. The reader will be left with the question of why they would do it, no conclusions will be made (NPOV), or as Fox News used to say "We report, you decide".
The fact is that the Advocating Overthrow strategy has been wildly successful for the NRA, and Wayne LaPierre has to be credited for it, because that is the way it happened.
Again, the vast majority of sources will be the NRA itself, and will document the transformation of the NRA into an organization for arming for overthrow under LaPierre's guidance.
Instead of being a yellowbellied coward by deleting this talk section, how about identifying yourself in this section, and giving your reasons for not including the FACTS? 174.207.16.242 ( talk) 20:08, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
Hey editors, I'm writing to you to see if this is truly NPOV. Here's the first graf of the article:
As executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, he advocated armed guards for schools in response to the school shootings at Sandy Hook and Stoneman Douglas. He supports longer sentences for gun crime, institutionalization of the mentally ill, and the suppression of violent video-games.
It sounds like a positive portrayal of LaPierre's political beliefs -- rather than describing a more even-handed picture of the man and the consequences of his stances. Maybe we could add like "LaPierre has come under criticism from gun control activists for..."
What do you think? 151.202.25.55 ( talk) 16:12, 9 November 2018 (UTC) (Redacted)
What do you think? Is the section on "Criticism" of La Pierre actually a thinly disguised attack piece, which should be deleted as derogatory allegations? ( PeacePeace ( talk) 05:50, 29 April 2019 (UTC))
Colonestarrice, there are a few problems with your infobox change. First, after it was reverted you should have opened a talk discussion here before making the edit again. Second, there is a lot of information that used to be effectively in the lead that you removed with the removal of that infobox. For example, when LaPierre assumed office. Since that material was removed with the edit you should have added it to the lead. It is also useful to have the linkage between predecessor and successor in examples like company/organization CEOs/presidents etc. Finally, while the template is clearly politician/public office focused, I could find nothing that said it wasn't acceptable for use in other cases. The template has been used almost 150,000 times. Do you think all of those are public offices? How does it harm the reader or the template to use it in this case? Springee ( talk) 01:27, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Lovemankind83, I think I agree with the IP editor, that material shouldn't be in the article. It isn't tied to anything else and as stated it suggests that he may have avoided the draft through questionable means else why mention it? It doesn't appear as part of a section talking about his views on military service nor does it appear to be anything that is particularly controversial about him. I'm sure that pales next to being the fact of the NRA and now associated with abuse of organization funds. That he wasn't drafted seems to be UNDUE in this article. That said, random IP editors removing blocks of text is always a suspicious thing and I wouldn't blame you for reflexively restoring the content. Springee ( talk) 01:12, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Is there anything at all to be said of this man's personal life? Marriage? Children? Hobbies? -- ''Paul, in Saudi'' ( talk) 04:04, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
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Wayne LaPierre is also known for his hunting trip to Botswana where he and his wife Susan LaPierre have killed an endangered wildlife species.
ReinoutRyheul ( talk) 18:52, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
LaPierre and the guide chat beside the dead elephant, a species that was declared endangered earlier this year.All the sources you're linking to are from a two day period, which is why I think it's pretty solidly recentism. It's small potatoes compared to his commentary on Sandy Hook and the other controversies covered in the article. If it is included at some point I think we can probably leave out quotes, especially from someone who isn't the article subject, and write about the actual controversy/criticism. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 11:19, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
Still, this seems like a case of people who are opposed to the idea and who dislike LaPierre gossiping about himI made particular note that about one third of the original article was general rehashing of old criticisms and mentioning he wears expensive suits. That criticism section was couched between two descriptions of the video. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 14:19, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
Rather than being wikipedian, my comment is more to make sure we don't have unwikipedian reasons for the edit. Elephants are endangered due to habitat loss and massive poaching. Legal hunting (with a typical contribution of $40,000+ per hunt) helps on both of those fronts. North8000 ( talk) 22:28, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
TigerScientist just added this general material to the article. The specific edit has a lot of detail but doesn't really explain why this is a controversy. I think if this is to be included the specific details of what they did should be left out and the emphasis should be put on what is the controversy. Springee ( talk) 17:05, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
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Revert changes made by Springee to last edit by 0mtwb9gd5wx. ( Personal attack removed) 69.158.90.121 ( talk) 04:39, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Resetting to No, not accepting a response ( Personal attack removed) 69.158.90.121 ( talk) 05:40, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Wall Street Journal: LaPierre spent $274,695.03, in
NRA funds, on
Zegna Suits from 2004 to 2017:
@
ScottishFinnishRadish: @
Cullen328: based on edit history :
seem to have a bias, based on all the deletes they have made. They have not offered to discuss this reliably sourced contribution. They just delete. 00:41, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
0mtwb9gd5wx, I've pulled the RfC for the time. Per wp:RFCBEFORE this should be discussed first. Pinging Cullen328 and ScottishFinnishRadish is reasonable but you didn't ping myself or Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d. Finally, at this point the content is disputed so we should be discussing vs simply restoring.
As for my feeling on the content, I think this edit fails DUE. However, I think some middle ground would be OK. My primary concern is this is meant to be a summary but the edit seems to focus on "sound bite" type quotes and sordid details. It also isn't clear how much of this would pass the 10YEAR test. I think the correct solution is to look at the added content and figure out some compacted version of the new content. Springee ( talk) 01:55, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
Including this as part of the description of the NRA is basically uncritically repeating official propaganda. Some have been skeptical of the organization's alleged safety efforts for years, and recently the wheels have pretty much fallen off: Participation in the NRA's child gun safety education program "dropped 96 percent in 24 months, as the NRA cut funding on 'safety, training & education' by $14 million, or more than a third."; "For a really long time, the NRA has pretended that Eddie Eagle is a responsible way to teach kids about gun safety. But it's actually more like a marketing or a propaganda tool, similar to Joe Camel in marketing cigarettes to kids." [16] etc. etc. AnonMoos ( talk) 07:46, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
There is no evidence that LaPierre received a medical deferment to avoid serving in Vietnam. All we know is that he had a draft number (097)that placed him in the “most likely to be drafted” category, and that he did not serve. He could have had a medical deferment or he could have avoided service in another way. Right now, the current published version is providing unsubstantiated - or false - information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moomat ( talk • contribs) 02:02, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
the record states that LaPierre reported for an armed services physical exam in August 1971 (while still at Siena College), and shortly thereafter was reclassified 1-Y (registrant qualified for service only in time of war or national emergency). During the Vietnam War period, receiving a 1-Y classification was essentially the same as being classified 4-F (registrant not qualified for military service). The 1-Y deferment was eliminated at the end of 1971, at which time all registrants who had previously received it, LaPierre among them, were administratively reclassified 4-F. Like that of Donald Trump, who also received a 1-Y draft deferment, LaPierre’s classification record includes the notation “yxx,” meaning he was found unqualified for military service based on medical reasons.Accordingly, your expression of doubt about the medical deferment is unsupported by the references to reliable sources now in the article. Cullen328 ( talk) 02:17, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
On August 6, 2020... New York Attorney General Letitia James filed a civil lawsuit against the NRA and LaPierre... calling for the dissolution of the association due to chronic fraudulent management.
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I'm very surprised that the Criticism section does not include references to the Ackerman McQueen controversy of 2019. Mr LaPierre received withering public criticism for his spending, as did the agency who worked with the NRA. This was covered extensively in WSJ, NY Times, WaPo, and others. 76.118.42.231 ( talk) 02:17, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
Same. Dcsutherland ( talk) 14:44, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
It seems more accurate to say that La Pierre is a gun rights advocate rather than a Second Amendment advocate. He does support a very specific interpretation of the Second Amendment but is against other interpretations of it. This is different than generally supporting it. -- Calan ( talk) 00:01, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
It really seems that his position is one of advocating gun rights rather than broadly advocating the Second Amendment, since the latter is a matter of interpretation which may or may not favor the right of certain people to possess certain types of guns. This interview- http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june10/guns2_06-28.html#transcript- indicates his position, which is clearly one of advocating gun rights. I would think it should be mentioned first that he is a gun rights advocate, then link it with how such advocacy relates to the Second Amendment. That would seem to cover his position, plus obliquely connecting the two dimensions for readers to investigate if they wish. 137.111.13.167 ( talk) 05:35, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Let the edit wars commence. For the record I support gun rights ...to a point. I've also served the US taxpayers and defended the US Constitution for twelve years now. Mr. LaPierre is very well known for his conspiracy theories regarding Clinton/Obama and any liberal President, which is not reflected in this article. I present the motion that this article should reflect such, esp. the recent stuff about Obama taking confiscating guns as soon as he's re-elected. All in favour say "Aye." Pär Larsson ( talk) 21:17, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
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Please add: Mr. LaPierre received a medical deferment for the Vietnam War draft and has never served in the military. Source: http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html; Lawrence O'Donnell Show, MSNBC, December 21, 2012. Lawdini ( talk) 15:36, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
I'm surprised there is no criticism in this story, even the response to his Sandy Hook speech.
It got a huge response from WP:RSs, so Wikipedia guidelines, such as WP:NPOV and WP:WEIGHT require it to be in the article.
Here's a nice summary from The Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/22/nra-lapierre-statement-pilloried-newspapers which includes the responses of many WP:RSs. Some of the strongest statements are in the New York Daily News http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/america-mad-gunman-article-1.1225123 -- Nbauman ( talk) 19:12, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
Among the many ways in which this article might be improved:
At the statement "In the wake of the the Oklahoma City bombing, LaPierre wrote a fundraising letter describing federal agents as 'jack-booted government thugs' " the article might as well provide a link to the said letter—for instance a link that provides the whole text of the letter—or at least to further information about the letter. Leigh Oats ( talk) 04:42, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
In 1995, National Rifle Association (NRA) Executive Vice-president Wayne LaPierre sparked controversy when he referred to federal agents as "jackbooted government thugs"; the comment caused former U.S. President George H.W. Bush to cancel his lifetime membership in the organization. The resignation of so public a figure as Mr. Bush prompted an open letter from the association to the former president to be published in major newspapers; the letter included a litany of alleged and settled cases of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms abuses and an assertion that LaPierre and the NRA were merely borrowing a well-worn phrase uttered by other public figures in their calls for reform of the agency, among them Representative John Dingell of Michigan.[9]
“Do not patronize the passionate supporters of your opponents by looking down your nose at them,” Clinton said. “A lot of these people live in a world very different from the world lived in by the people proposing these things,” Clinton said. “I know because I come from this world.”
Context matters. I would rewrite the opening to: "In 1995, in the aftermath of the standoff at Ruby Ridge and the Waco siege and the refusal of the Clinton Administration to address concerns about militarization of federal law enforcement raised by NRA, ACLU, and a dozen other rights groups, LaPierre wrote a fundraising letter and took out an ad in USA Today describing federal agents as "jack-booted government thugs" who wear "Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms to attack law-abiding citizens.""
The judge advocate and legal adviser for US Army special forces wrote on these issues in detail in less colorful but more legalistic language in the US Army War College Quarterly Parameters. Thomas R. Lujan, "Legal Aspects of Domestic Employment of the Army", Parameters US Army War College Quarterly, Autumn 1997, Vol. XXVII, No. 3.
The adoption of military rules of engagement and weaponry in domestic law enforcement is still an issue today and it won't be solved by demonizing its critics. -- Naaman Brown ( talk) 10:22, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Criticisms of LaPierre that I added were removed by ROG5728 citing WP:BLP. However, BLP rules clearly state that if contentious material is properly sourced, it is permissable. Since my edit includes numerous reliable third party citations, and it is verifiable that these these people said these things, the edit is not a violation of BLP. Comments about a person do not get to be removed just because they reflect negatively on the person. Adding criticism can help to balance an article -- even a BLP -- and there is plenty of positive stuff about Wayne LaPierre here. If you'd like to discuss this further, please comment below, but please do not remove my properly sourced and cited edits. Athene cunicularia ( talk) 03:30, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Do you see any praise included in the article? No, not a bit, so your additions violate WP:BLP on that basis alone (not to mention WP:NPOV). The addition is also UNDUE because it's all related to one press conference on one event. There was already some criticism of Wayne LaPierre in this article (from a Clinton White House spokesperson, nonetheless) and that's more than enough. There is no need to fill this article with more criticisms of Wayne LaPierre. This article is about the man, it's not about what critics think of him. You're not going to get your way by reverting and adding the content back over and over, either. ROG5728 ( talk) 07:12, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Per WP:BLP, unsourced or poorly sourced material about living persons must be removed immediately. The source recently added by Zeamays (and removed by myself) is a laughably slanted opinion piece that spends 90% of its time talking about how stupid and evil they think Wayne is. Zeamays, take your POV pushing elsewhere. It won't be tolerated in BLP articles. ROG5728 ( talk) 01:25, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
ROG is apparently patrolling ths article to eliminate facts that don't fit his WP:POV. He is improperly reverting references to an error made by LaPierre, the reference to the facts is a transcript. To avoid an acccusation of WP:OR, I added a statement from a newspaper that described the error explicitly. It need not be an unbiased ref, because the error can easily be seen in the transcript. So you can't have it both ways. LaPierre's salary is from a reference on salaries of non-profit execs, reliable and notable. Or do you think it's something of which LaPierre should be ashamed? Not POV, but fact. -- Zeamays ( talk) 03:29, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
:BRD is not a policy. This means it is not a process that you can require other editors to follow.
- Note:"BRD" is commonly used to refer to the principle that a revert should not be reverted again by the same editors until the changes have been discussed, as that could constitute edit warring, which is a policy that all editors must follow.
- BRD is not a valid excuse for reverting good-faith efforts to improve a page simply because you don't like the changes. Don't invoke BRD as your reason for reverting someone else's work or for edit warring: instead, provide a reason that is based on policies, guidelines, or common sense.
- BRD is not an excuse to revert any change more than once. If your reversion is met with another bold effort, then you should consider not reverting, but discussing. The talk page is open to all editors, not just bold ones. The first person to start a discussion is the person who is best following BRD.
Have to agree with ROG on this. The Opinion piece is extrememly slanted and not usable for anything within a BLP. Furthermore the presentation of the information by Zeamays is highly POVish. WP is not a place to promote your personal attacks on living people. Arzel ( talk) 15:26, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
So far, there seem to be four editors that have spoken out against you and none for you. The material you added to the article is a violation of WP:NPOV (specifically WP:UNDUE) and WP:BLP. It's not at all noteworthy, and its inclusion in this BLP article serves only to advance an agenda against the NRA. And yes, the fact that you think the NRA's argument against background checks "hinges" on this point in LaPierre's speech indicates to me that you don't have a clear understanding of this subject. That's not an uncivil comment, it's just a polite expression of the truth. You keep talking about "airing all sides of controversies" but I only see you pushing one POV (yours) in all of your edits. ROG5728 ( talk) 18:47, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
I was checking a story on the NRA firearms museum and ended up here. The contested edit: "In January 2013, LaPierre testified to a U.S. Senate Committee against increased firearms regulation, including opposition to universal background checks for firearms purchases. He claimed that only 62 firearms offenses were prosecuted in the U.S. in 2012, a number that documents indicated was less than of the actual number, which was more than 11,700." The context was universal background checks. There were not 11,700 prosecutions for "lie to buy" failing background checks. This federal firearms felony, someone on the NICS "prohibited person" database trying to buy a gun but failing a background check after signing the FF 4473 firearms transaction affidavit that they are not a prohibited person, has always been underprosecuted. Still is underprosecuted. Government Accounting Office September 2018 Report Few Individuals Denied Firearms Purchases Are Prosecuted...." Federal National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) Firearms Denial Cases Investigated and Prosecuted, Fiscal Year 2017 8,606,286 Federal NICS Transactions 112,090 Denials 12,710 ATF Field Division Investigations 12 United States Attorney’s Offices Prosecutions [of 2017 denials by 2018] One reason there are so few prosecutions of people who try to buy a gun but are denied by the NICS BG check is (a) the authorities say their desired goal is to prevent purchases not prosecute prohibited purchase attempts, or (b) the authorities know the NICS data base has crappy info and there are a lot of people on the "prohibited person" list who don't belong there (conversely even more people who should be, but aren't). -- Naaman Brown ( talk) 19:32, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
This article has been degrading over the last month and I'm seeing many of the usual faces here that have degraded other good articles on Wikipedia. If you're an activist (and I think we know who you are now), without a genuine intent on improving the article and instead here for POV pushing please go away, you're making the work of good editors much harder and increasing the workload on genuine good editors and copyeditors who will invariably have to come here and clean up the sad mess you're creating. Wikipedia is not a place for you to conduct your activism, pro or anti gun. This article will be heavily cleaned up in the near future and your POV pushing will be removed summarily . Remember this article is a biography of a living person and violations of WP:BLP must be removed immediately. WP:BRD is a dispute resolution mechanism that all editors must adhere to. If your edit is reverted per WP:BRD by any editor, you are required to discuss and reach consensus on the talk before inserting the rewritten material into the article. If you edit war, you will be blocked.- Justanonymous ( talk) 18:36, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
OK, I'll address specific individuals. HiLo48, I respect you in immeasurable ways. You truly have a clarity of thought that I admire. With regard to the perceived bashing of Zeamays, this person's actions (edits) speak for themselves. I respectfully submit the following.
I reviewed
Zeamays' edit history
[2] and discovered that prior to the Sandy Hook incident he had little (seemingly no) interest in firearm related articles. So if an accusation is to be made its that
Zeamays has become a "situational activist" here on WP. I'm not saying this is a bad thing,
Zeamays is one of many that have been inspired to edit WP because of that horrendous event. This edit has been made at the request of Zeamays and the
urging of
Admin Moriori. I think this addresses the substantive portion of their concerns. --
Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (
talk)
01:31, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
That said Zeamays has made edits to the following articles starting with the December 15, 2012 edit of:
I won't characterize the edits, I'll let others review them and form their own opinion. The discussions on the associated Talk pages seem equally revealing to me.-- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... ( talk) 00:06, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
I won't take a side on this issue of gun control, but I can say that this man- regardless of his political sanity- has become a literal shooting target for proponents of gun control. Activists have, once again, seized control of this article, subjecting it to outrageously one sided criticism. LaPierre's statements are paraphrased in ways to make them appear ridiculous, even if they are. A true testament of a fair individual is one who is able to withstand the viewpoint of both sides. Although Wikipedia may contain a disproportionately small number of 2nd amendment advocates, it is unfair and immoral to slander one man and slant one article. I am sure I will be torn apart for advocating some basic neutrality of decency, and that many will turn a blind eye and claim this article suits Wikipedia's standards. If that is so, it is Wikipedia's readers that lose out, not the pro-gun lobby. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.228.133.172 ( talk) 02:19, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
Right, and the incident you're wanting to add is not noteworthy, not relevant, and not well-documented. Actually, it couldn't even be described as an "incident" in the first place. LaPierre may have made an error in a speech. So what? ROG5728 ( talk) 06:43, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
ROG - you really aren't very good at discussing things. You asked a question (So what?). I answered it. And then, rather than responding to my answer, which is how a discussion works, you deflected it with another question, in a shallow kind of way common to tabloid media and populist TV talk shows, and not the way we need to work at a serious encyclopaedia. I'm new to this Talk page. So far, I'm not impressed. So, shall we try again? Remember, we're talking about THIS article, not others. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS covers that. LaPierre, a very public person, stuffed up. It simply IS highly notable to the media, obviously, because it got plenty of attention. The immediate question was whether that stuff up was just a simple mistake, and not his true position, or was it truly representative of his level of knowledge and understanding. I don't know the answer. Do you? Obviously, if it's the latter, it matters a lot. HiLo48 ( talk) 19:59, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
HiLo, your "answer" to me was a non-answer, and I responded to it by pointing out that there is no such thing as a public figure who hasn't made an error in some speech at some point in time, and it's not notable at all; nor does it befit a BLP article to nitpick a public figure over something like that in the article. Then again, I'm repeating myself now; reading comprehension is your responsibility, not mine. No one referenced "other stuff" as a basis for what to do in this article, they referenced WP:BLP and WP:UNDUE. ROG5728 ( talk) 00:19, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Zeamays, I was quoting the other editor; and directly quoting another editor is not "disparagement." Stop trying to make an issue where one doesn't exist. If you want to take issue with something, take issue with the editor throwing out personal attacks. ROG5728 ( talk) 18:23, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
The only disparaging comment made was the one I referenced earlier from HiLo, where he called the rest of us "nutters." I already corrected myself by pointing out that the comment was made by him, and not you. I'm not going to delete talk page comments without a good reason. Now, if you don't have anything on-topic to contribute to this discussion, please don't post in it. I would like to discuss the content with HiLo; namely, the insertion that violates WP:BLP and WP:UNDUE. ROG5728 ( talk) 21:12, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
FWIW, LaPierre's intentional/non-intentional blunder, should be mentioned. Afterall, he's the NRA's Executive Vice President. GoodDay ( talk) 08:40, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I don't think that I seen a worse case of immense bias in a BLP that this one. Nearly the whole thing (including the selection and presentation of content) looks like a hatchet job rather than an article on a person. Even down to the choice the choice of a "mug shot" angled picture on the second one. (camera below where their face is aiming) And that without the material on an error or whatever that people are trying to put in. North8000 ( talk) 11:46, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
References
Newtown board wants more cops in schools
I'm a little stunned by this... -- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... ( talk) 00:29, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
"isn't it surprising then that newtown, the victims of a horrific mass murder, would now unanimously call for armed guards" Wow, some people don't know how to read. The Board of Selectmen - which may only be three people - was unanimous, not the freaking town. And commentary on Sandy Hook really doesn't belong in this awful person's Bio here on WP. It belongs in other articles. Huw Powell ( talk) 03:31, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
The current state of this article is that criticisms of LaPierre's public statements are described thus, "so and so criticized and so and so criticized, etc." The basis for each criticism is unstated. This does not provide the reader with needed information to understand the debate. For an example of how that should work, see the article on Gabrielle Giffords, in which her critics' positions are briefly explained. -- Zeamays ( talk) 14:01, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
It's original research, but this criminal engages in robocalling. I can't add this to the to the article, but this man has called my phone in violation of Federal Laws multiple times. He is a bad man, and a criminal. Huw Powell ( talk) 08:11, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
You must be pretty special if Wayne LaPierre (rather than the NRA) is personally handling the robocalling for you. :-) North8000 ( talk) 11:37, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
Where was the NRA support when the I-594 came up for a vote in Washington State this past November election day? I put in a considerable amount of time and money trying to get the word out on the very bad law I-594 vs. I-594 the good law, that was also supported by several thousand Washington State law enforcement officers. You say that the NRA is always there for the membership! I did not see one televised NRA anti I-594 commercial put on by the NRA establishment, letting the people know what was in the hidden pages of the law. You say that the membership dues is not enough money to keep the NRA going, well you can count me out, I will not send you anymore fanatical support until I see the NRA vocal support that will be needed to wake up the voting community.
This is not the forum for discussing Wiki policies. I see a lively discussion about lack of criticism of WLP in the article. Some ask, if we include criticisms, where does it stop? Others say, why no criticisms? Forgive me for creating this as a new section but I see the talk thus far disjointed. In the past, I've seen many Wiki articles, specifically on politicians, that had a section called 'Criticism'. Now I can't find any on pages of major politicians, or celebrities (like Brad Pitt). However, organizations (like the UN) have sections with the term 'criticism' in the heading.
We can debate whether WLP is a conspiracy theorist, nutjob, etc, or not. The fact is he is the executive of an organization that aggressively, vehemently, and proactively litigates on behalf of gun rights (the litigation well documented in Wiki, especially in the SCOTUS Heller v DC case aftermath. We can all concede the NRA does this under his leadership and draws from his efforts. Having said that we can all also conclude that he has a very specific agenda. The article has a single section entitled 'views on gun control' and the way it's written indicates one of WLP's PR people wrote it, or maybe himself in some "WLP Doctrine" on gun control because it is a sanitized list of simple, clear, specific, and bite-sized positions on specific aspects of the gun control debate. This is a slighty-less-than-blatant attempt to paint WLP in a specific, positive light. Given his extensive public speaking, published pieces, and the extent of litigation under his leadership, we can conclude there is more to him and his agenda than is reflected in this article.
My point: as a reader, it does not make sense to me how someone who is the chief of an organization that is so fervently opposed to gun control, it concocts strategies on what cases to present to SCOTUS and when, and the likelihood of getting pro-agenda actions passed (, has such a sanitized Wiki page. The guy has written a book, as cited, called "The Global War on Your Guns (2006)". I haven't read the book, but I suspect that he also believes that governments and powerful organizations are actively and clandestinely attempting to take guns away from people. This is not cited as one of his views on gun control.
I propose the following changes: 1) If the section is to be titled 'views on gun control', every bullet point must have a citation, or at least be marked as 'citation needed'. Considering half of the current bullets have no citation, there should be a warning about lack of sources. 2) Include a section on his motivations and feelings about gun rights and possession in general. Azadi { ( talk) 05:06, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
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The article on Wayne LaPierre lists his year of birth as 1949, but at the bottom of the article, under "Categories", it has him on a list of people born in 1948, where his name does, in fact, appear.
/info/en/?search=Wayne_LaPierre https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Category:1948_births&from=L
Doctor99~enwiki ( talk) 14:32, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
This text has been removed repeatedly:
In January 2012, LaPierre testified to a U.S. Senate Committee against increased firearms regulation, including opposition to universal background checks for firearms purchases. He claimed that only 62 firearms offenses were prosecuted in the U.S. in 2012, a number that documents indicated was only 1/200 of the actual number, which has risen during the Obama administration. [1]
In an article about a gun ontrol advocate, this text has been added repeatedly:
On the April 18, 2007, episode of MSNBC's program Tucker, Tucker Carlson interviewed McCarthy about the Virginia Tech massacre and her proposed reauthorization of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. He asked her to explain the need to regulate barrel shrouds, one of the many provisions included in her bill. She did not directly respond, instead stating it was more important that the legislation would ban large capacity "clips" (sic) of the type used in the Virginia Tech massacre and that the class of guns chosen prohibited by the law were those used by gangs and killers of police officers. That statement was factually incorrect; Cho's largest magazines held fifteen rounds, thus making them illegal under the AWB. [2] When Carlson pressed her twice more on the question about barrel shrouds, she admitted that she did not know what a barrel shroud was, and incorrectly stated, "I believe it is a shoulder thing that goes up." Carlson replied with, "No, No it's not." [3] [4] [5] [6]
Can anyone give me a good reason why these two gaffes are being treated differently? Felsic2 ( talk) 19:55, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
References
There are arguments here about whether particular text or ideas are WP:UNDUE.
I recommend that you refer to the following definition from WP:NPV
In other words, the way to determine whether a particular topic in the article has due or undue weight is to see how prominent those viewpoints are in WP:RS. If a particular statement by LaPierre or by his critics is repeated in multiple WP:RS, then it meets WP:UNDUE and belongs in the article. I think that a dozen references from major newspapers, broadcasting and digital sources such as New York Times, Washington Post, ABC, etc. would establish weight.
It is not a valid argument for somebody to simply say, "I think [in my opinion] this gives too much emphasis to an unimportant issue," if that issue has been covered by many WP:RS. -- Nbauman ( talk) 19:55, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
Ok, this dispute is so absurd that it feels even strange trying to discuss it. DHeyward has made the assertion that LaPierre is not a conservative and remove the relevant info from the article. Funny that. He's given multiple speeches and addresses at the American Conservative Union, "America’s oldest and largest grassroots conservative organization" [3] [4] [5], the source I added (which DHeyward removed after asking me to add a source!) refers to him as a "conservative leader" [6], another source puts him in "the conservative orbit" [7], the guy rants about a "violent left" (sic) [8] and he refers to himself as a conservative [9].
Seriously, why is this even up for debate? It's sorta hard to take this kind of obfuscation seriously. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 07:08, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
Easily sourced, counterclaim is ridiculous. 'The firearms industry needs more customers' is a conservative position to take, regardless of party affliation. PeterTheFourth ( talk) 07:11, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
We’ve got 5 million active NRA members, 25 million more who consider themselves NRA members, and we have gun owners and Second Amendment supporters all over this country. So if you are a member of the leftist media or a soldier for the violent left, a violent criminal, a drug cartel gang member or a would-be terrorist, hear this: You’re not going to win and you will not defeat us.Even if you subscribe to the belief that being in favor of gun ownership rights is conservative, it's a single conservative position that doesn't define a persons ideology. Being a pro-life advocate is a conservative position but it hardly qualifies calling the Pope "conservative" based on a single position. Again, find a source that says he is a conservative activist and not just a single issue advocate. -- DHeyward ( talk) 07:55, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
“Wayne, I would say they know you,” said Trump, referring to the group of conservative leaders."Wayne" isn't part of the group which is why "they" are referred to separately in the source. LaPierre believes that gun owners are being attacked by the "leftist media" but that doesn't mean that he believes the "leftist media" is limiting their attack to conservative gun owners or that all gun owners are therefore conservative. If you don't understand the difference between single issue advocacy vs. an entire ideology, perhaps you shouldn't be editing these types of articles. If you can't understand that being just for "gun rights" or "pro-life" doesn't make a person a conservative, nor does being against the death penalty make someone liberal. Try to pigeonhole a pro-life and anti-death penalty priest as a liberal or conservative and you should be able to reason why the inference is so poor. If the priest then asks liberals to donate to end the death penalty and asks conservatives to end abortion even you should be able to see labeling a persons ideology on single issue positions is poor reasoning. "Conservative" is simply an inaccurate label without foundation as his views beyond gun rights are unknown. Perhaps it is easier to explain Gun Violence Archive to you - it's non-partisan and founded by gun owner and former NRA member Mark Bryant. Extrapolating whether Bryant is "liberal" or "conservative" is just as pointless and fruitless and baseless. Bryant and his statistics are opposed by many gun rights advocates as they believe it conflicts with their ideology. But that doesn't make Bryant "liberal" or his archive "partisan" no matter where he speaks or who donates money to his group. These are single issue individuals, not an ideology. The only "game" is accurately describing them and not pigeon holing people into boxes they don't ascribe to. -- DHeyward ( talk) 10:10, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
"In response to LaPierre's claim that "we," which likely meant conservatives considering the audience, "are the majority in this country,
" -
[10].
PeterTheFourth (
talk)
00:49, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
"which likely meant conservatives considering the audience""Which likely meant" is an assumption and not a confirmation. What is the full context? Regardless, still nothing stating that LaPierre is a Conservative and no direct quote from him. This is still classic WP:SYNTH as well as WP:OR. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 00:56, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
Old citation is 404. New citation should be: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/530116130/201623149349300602/IRS990 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericscoles ( talk • contribs) 16:20, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
According to the Washington Post, salary cited here is inaccurate. He gets about a million a year. The 2015 salary was exceptional because he had a pension fund payout which he had to take or lose. That boosted the salary past the norm. Theonemacduff ( talk) 23:07, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
There are several articles that discuss Mr. LaPierre's activities as a Democrat in Virginia. These include references to his work on the McGovern campaign in Virginia [1]
Also, from his official NRA biography [2], it would be relevant to include his activity as an NRA lobbyist for the NRA-ILA both regionally and as its national director before he became the Executive Vice President. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swazman ( talk • contribs) 14:35, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
References
For over 30 years, their primary recruitment tactic has been open and willful violation of 18 USC Sect. 2385, "Advocating Overthrow". This needs to be documented. This can be documented from their own sources and advertising, as well as the resultant violence and Terrorism that has resulted from this strategy to recruit new members, primarily the mentally deranged.
As for the Russia factor, this is a developing story, and appears that Russia has used the NRA's "Advocating Overthrow" strategy to destabilize the United States of America, as well as to seat Donald Trump. This is a developing story, and it appears that arrests will be made.
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article214075459.html "Russia investigators likely got access to NRA's tax filings, secret donors" (McClatchy, DC Bureau)
Also, The Advocating Overthrow strategy, as well as the Russia factor have to have been signed off by LaPierre. Someone deleted this talk section. This needs to be in the article, whomever deleted this section a few minutes ago must approve of the Overthrow of the United States Government, or of Russia's activities using the NRA and Wayne LaPierre. They were not duped, and this is how the history books will read. Will political bullshit keep what the history books will contain out of the WikiPedia article because it gives Christian Conservatives "bad optics"? This is a serious proposal, and what will be coming to the article is well researched, with dates, advertising contract numbers, etc, all third party sourced and within the guidelines. The reader will be left with the question of why they would do it, no conclusions will be made (NPOV), or as Fox News used to say "We report, you decide".
The fact is that the Advocating Overthrow strategy has been wildly successful for the NRA, and Wayne LaPierre has to be credited for it, because that is the way it happened.
Again, the vast majority of sources will be the NRA itself, and will document the transformation of the NRA into an organization for arming for overthrow under LaPierre's guidance.
Instead of being a yellowbellied coward by deleting this talk section, how about identifying yourself in this section, and giving your reasons for not including the FACTS? 174.207.16.242 ( talk) 20:08, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
Hey editors, I'm writing to you to see if this is truly NPOV. Here's the first graf of the article:
As executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, he advocated armed guards for schools in response to the school shootings at Sandy Hook and Stoneman Douglas. He supports longer sentences for gun crime, institutionalization of the mentally ill, and the suppression of violent video-games.
It sounds like a positive portrayal of LaPierre's political beliefs -- rather than describing a more even-handed picture of the man and the consequences of his stances. Maybe we could add like "LaPierre has come under criticism from gun control activists for..."
What do you think? 151.202.25.55 ( talk) 16:12, 9 November 2018 (UTC) (Redacted)
What do you think? Is the section on "Criticism" of La Pierre actually a thinly disguised attack piece, which should be deleted as derogatory allegations? ( PeacePeace ( talk) 05:50, 29 April 2019 (UTC))
Colonestarrice, there are a few problems with your infobox change. First, after it was reverted you should have opened a talk discussion here before making the edit again. Second, there is a lot of information that used to be effectively in the lead that you removed with the removal of that infobox. For example, when LaPierre assumed office. Since that material was removed with the edit you should have added it to the lead. It is also useful to have the linkage between predecessor and successor in examples like company/organization CEOs/presidents etc. Finally, while the template is clearly politician/public office focused, I could find nothing that said it wasn't acceptable for use in other cases. The template has been used almost 150,000 times. Do you think all of those are public offices? How does it harm the reader or the template to use it in this case? Springee ( talk) 01:27, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Lovemankind83, I think I agree with the IP editor, that material shouldn't be in the article. It isn't tied to anything else and as stated it suggests that he may have avoided the draft through questionable means else why mention it? It doesn't appear as part of a section talking about his views on military service nor does it appear to be anything that is particularly controversial about him. I'm sure that pales next to being the fact of the NRA and now associated with abuse of organization funds. That he wasn't drafted seems to be UNDUE in this article. That said, random IP editors removing blocks of text is always a suspicious thing and I wouldn't blame you for reflexively restoring the content. Springee ( talk) 01:12, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Is there anything at all to be said of this man's personal life? Marriage? Children? Hobbies? -- ''Paul, in Saudi'' ( talk) 04:04, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
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Wayne LaPierre is also known for his hunting trip to Botswana where he and his wife Susan LaPierre have killed an endangered wildlife species.
ReinoutRyheul ( talk) 18:52, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
LaPierre and the guide chat beside the dead elephant, a species that was declared endangered earlier this year.All the sources you're linking to are from a two day period, which is why I think it's pretty solidly recentism. It's small potatoes compared to his commentary on Sandy Hook and the other controversies covered in the article. If it is included at some point I think we can probably leave out quotes, especially from someone who isn't the article subject, and write about the actual controversy/criticism. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 11:19, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
Still, this seems like a case of people who are opposed to the idea and who dislike LaPierre gossiping about himI made particular note that about one third of the original article was general rehashing of old criticisms and mentioning he wears expensive suits. That criticism section was couched between two descriptions of the video. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 14:19, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
Rather than being wikipedian, my comment is more to make sure we don't have unwikipedian reasons for the edit. Elephants are endangered due to habitat loss and massive poaching. Legal hunting (with a typical contribution of $40,000+ per hunt) helps on both of those fronts. North8000 ( talk) 22:28, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
TigerScientist just added this general material to the article. The specific edit has a lot of detail but doesn't really explain why this is a controversy. I think if this is to be included the specific details of what they did should be left out and the emphasis should be put on what is the controversy. Springee ( talk) 17:05, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
References
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Revert changes made by Springee to last edit by 0mtwb9gd5wx. ( Personal attack removed) 69.158.90.121 ( talk) 04:39, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Resetting to No, not accepting a response ( Personal attack removed) 69.158.90.121 ( talk) 05:40, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Wall Street Journal: LaPierre spent $274,695.03, in
NRA funds, on
Zegna Suits from 2004 to 2017:
@
ScottishFinnishRadish: @
Cullen328: based on edit history :
seem to have a bias, based on all the deletes they have made. They have not offered to discuss this reliably sourced contribution. They just delete. 00:41, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
0mtwb9gd5wx, I've pulled the RfC for the time. Per wp:RFCBEFORE this should be discussed first. Pinging Cullen328 and ScottishFinnishRadish is reasonable but you didn't ping myself or Dr.Swag Lord, Ph.d. Finally, at this point the content is disputed so we should be discussing vs simply restoring.
As for my feeling on the content, I think this edit fails DUE. However, I think some middle ground would be OK. My primary concern is this is meant to be a summary but the edit seems to focus on "sound bite" type quotes and sordid details. It also isn't clear how much of this would pass the 10YEAR test. I think the correct solution is to look at the added content and figure out some compacted version of the new content. Springee ( talk) 01:55, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
Including this as part of the description of the NRA is basically uncritically repeating official propaganda. Some have been skeptical of the organization's alleged safety efforts for years, and recently the wheels have pretty much fallen off: Participation in the NRA's child gun safety education program "dropped 96 percent in 24 months, as the NRA cut funding on 'safety, training & education' by $14 million, or more than a third."; "For a really long time, the NRA has pretended that Eddie Eagle is a responsible way to teach kids about gun safety. But it's actually more like a marketing or a propaganda tool, similar to Joe Camel in marketing cigarettes to kids." [16] etc. etc. AnonMoos ( talk) 07:46, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
There is no evidence that LaPierre received a medical deferment to avoid serving in Vietnam. All we know is that he had a draft number (097)that placed him in the “most likely to be drafted” category, and that he did not serve. He could have had a medical deferment or he could have avoided service in another way. Right now, the current published version is providing unsubstantiated - or false - information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moomat ( talk • contribs) 02:02, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
the record states that LaPierre reported for an armed services physical exam in August 1971 (while still at Siena College), and shortly thereafter was reclassified 1-Y (registrant qualified for service only in time of war or national emergency). During the Vietnam War period, receiving a 1-Y classification was essentially the same as being classified 4-F (registrant not qualified for military service). The 1-Y deferment was eliminated at the end of 1971, at which time all registrants who had previously received it, LaPierre among them, were administratively reclassified 4-F. Like that of Donald Trump, who also received a 1-Y draft deferment, LaPierre’s classification record includes the notation “yxx,” meaning he was found unqualified for military service based on medical reasons.Accordingly, your expression of doubt about the medical deferment is unsupported by the references to reliable sources now in the article. Cullen328 ( talk) 02:17, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
On August 6, 2020... New York Attorney General Letitia James filed a civil lawsuit against the NRA and LaPierre... calling for the dissolution of the association due to chronic fraudulent management.