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On 9 December 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Wayland (folklore). The result of the discussion was not moved. |
"Caliburn, in Mary Stewart's Arthurian Legend, is the sword of Macsen, Merlin, and Arther." Well, yes: but does Mary Stewart ever say that Caliburn was forged by Wayland? Does anyone? If so, please provide a citation! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.17.129 ( talk) 18:30, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
from Wayland Smith, which now redirects to Weyland:
Moved here because I can't verify most of it—specifically, the part about his family and his French name (Google is no help, and there are no links to fr:Gallans). —No-One Jones 21:59, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
The_Master_and_Margarita has a character with a noticeably similiar name. Any connection?
the character Waylon Smithers, from the animated TV show "The Simpsons", may be named in reference to Weyland Smithy or the "Fables" character of a similar name.
So far as I can see, the current title, "Wayland Smith" isn't attested by either reference, and isn't the most common name, in general. Wouldn't either Wayland the Smith or simply Wayland be more logical? Alai 03:12, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
A quick google adds some credence to my impression that Vulcan and Weyland are cognate and culturally equivalent. Is this a common belief, or just what the eccentrics are saying? If I knew better I'd edit a section in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steewi ( talk • contribs) 03:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Weland/Völundr/Vulcan are certainly plausible cognates, especially the first part of the name. If the Germanic name was originally something like *Wôlhund it would be even more transparent. Regarding Daedalus, it does seem that he rather than Hephaistos is the closest Greek equivalent. As Hephaistos came from Lemnos (which spoke a language like Etruscan) he surely isn't an Indo-European god, Daedalus may have been the original native Greek smith-god. Walshie79 ( talk) 16:43, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
Having investigated it further, I'd also like to offer the possibility that Welund is derived from the Indo-European *Welunos/Werunos (see The king and the god). I had originally thought this unlikely because of the difference between Varuna, Ouranos (sky gods) and Welund the smith god, but then I found out that Ilmarinen (who is very similar to Welund) is cognate with a sky god in another Uralic language. So there could have been a development in northern Europe that turned the sky gods into smiths: whether it began in Finnish/Saami or Germanic is debatable. The Norse tale of Volundr being a Finn however would fit nicely with him (originally Welunos) having absorbed elements of Ilmarinen. Walshie79 ( talk) 22:29, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
I've never heard that before and there's no citation. In the Flibbertigibbet article, the same assertion appears, citing... this article! Should Wikipedia really be citing itself for something it's got no external reference for? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.37.81 ( talk) 17:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't agree with the references to Weyland's rape of Bodvild. The texts seem to suggest that she was seduced, not raped. There are references to them as "lovers" and their "lust" which do not imply rape to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.10.91.104 ( talk) 17:45, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
This happens a lot in myth studies, people seem almost eager to make things more dark and questionable. Nut it does not help that there are multiple versions and that some mythologies like greek were pretty rape filled. That all said I thought they got together willingly as well.
65.183.214.150 (
talk)
To add to the rape agenda. Old Norse, Thidrekssaga, Þiðreks saga , clearly says "seduced". Does this not meet wikilaw standards? Maybe there is a difference in some of the old text. But the fact remains that there are stories that mention her as an honoured, loved wife. Not a rape victim.
https://ppk.home.xs4all.nl/nibelung/sum.htm#VI
2601:806:4301:C100:3D03:652C:8417:1ECB ( talk) 21:12, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
The reference to cartoon character Waylon Smithers is pure speculation. This character has a wiki page, where it is referenced that the name Waylon came from the puppeteer Wayland Flowers. There is no evidence offered for any link between Wayland the Smith and the cartoon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wayo231 ( talk • contribs) 21:11, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Where did the story on here go about falling in love with, and rescuing Schwanhilde? 73.220.34.167 ( talk) 08:27, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
This one. Copied from here:
"Swanhilde is the daughter of a marriage between a mortal woman and a fairy king, who forbids his wife to ask about his origins; on her asking him he vanishes. Swanhilde and her sisters are however able to fly as swans. But wounded by a spear, Swanhilde falls to earth and is rescued by the master-craftsman Wieland, and marries him, putting aside her wings and her magic ring of power. Wieland's enemies, the Neidings, under Princess Bathilde, steal the ring, kidnap Swanhilde and destroy Wieland's home. When Wieland searches for Swanhilde, they entrap and cripple him. However he fashions wings for himself and escapes with Swanhilde as the house of the Neidings is destroyed." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:558:6012:5A:565:ABEA:FCDE:5BBD ( talk) 22:33, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
In old Scandinavian texts "Finn" refers mainly to Sámi (outdated form: "Lapp") rather than Finnish people. The term finnakonung is generally translated as "Sámi king", not "Finnish king". The literature tends to refer to Sámi chieftains/leaders as "Finn Kings", such as Svåse father of Snefrid in the stories of Harald Fairhair.
On a side note, it is interesting to consider Völundrs status as one of three sons of a "Finn king" in relation to the traditional Norwegian connection between smithy labor and Sámi ethnicity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.215.19.208 ( talk) 09:13, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
I'm not seeing any etymological information that supports Rosenfeld's "Wela-nandaz" as meaning "battle brave."
George T. Gillespie in, I believe, 'A Catalogue of Persons Named in Germanic Heroic Literature' suggests the name derives instead from the proto-germanic verb *welan/* Wilą -which pertains to crafting.
Encountering this for the first time, but does anyone know if there's a relation between Wayland and Daedalus? The stories seem similar (minus Icarus). Econtheory ( talk) 02:07, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 13:26, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
Wayland the Smith → Wayland (folklore) – The current title seems rather odd to me. In any primary source I've read on him he is just referred to by his name without "the Smith" added. Modern scholarship also seems to overwhelmingly go with just his name such as Wayland, Weland, Volund and so on. In my opinion, this page title should match common use in modern scholarship and primary sources rather than a title which seems not to have a great foundation. Ingwina ( talk) 09:46, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 9 December 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Wayland (folklore). The result of the discussion was not moved. |
"Caliburn, in Mary Stewart's Arthurian Legend, is the sword of Macsen, Merlin, and Arther." Well, yes: but does Mary Stewart ever say that Caliburn was forged by Wayland? Does anyone? If so, please provide a citation! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.17.129 ( talk) 18:30, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
from Wayland Smith, which now redirects to Weyland:
Moved here because I can't verify most of it—specifically, the part about his family and his French name (Google is no help, and there are no links to fr:Gallans). —No-One Jones 21:59, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
The_Master_and_Margarita has a character with a noticeably similiar name. Any connection?
the character Waylon Smithers, from the animated TV show "The Simpsons", may be named in reference to Weyland Smithy or the "Fables" character of a similar name.
So far as I can see, the current title, "Wayland Smith" isn't attested by either reference, and isn't the most common name, in general. Wouldn't either Wayland the Smith or simply Wayland be more logical? Alai 03:12, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
A quick google adds some credence to my impression that Vulcan and Weyland are cognate and culturally equivalent. Is this a common belief, or just what the eccentrics are saying? If I knew better I'd edit a section in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steewi ( talk • contribs) 03:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Weland/Völundr/Vulcan are certainly plausible cognates, especially the first part of the name. If the Germanic name was originally something like *Wôlhund it would be even more transparent. Regarding Daedalus, it does seem that he rather than Hephaistos is the closest Greek equivalent. As Hephaistos came from Lemnos (which spoke a language like Etruscan) he surely isn't an Indo-European god, Daedalus may have been the original native Greek smith-god. Walshie79 ( talk) 16:43, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
Having investigated it further, I'd also like to offer the possibility that Welund is derived from the Indo-European *Welunos/Werunos (see The king and the god). I had originally thought this unlikely because of the difference between Varuna, Ouranos (sky gods) and Welund the smith god, but then I found out that Ilmarinen (who is very similar to Welund) is cognate with a sky god in another Uralic language. So there could have been a development in northern Europe that turned the sky gods into smiths: whether it began in Finnish/Saami or Germanic is debatable. The Norse tale of Volundr being a Finn however would fit nicely with him (originally Welunos) having absorbed elements of Ilmarinen. Walshie79 ( talk) 22:29, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
I've never heard that before and there's no citation. In the Flibbertigibbet article, the same assertion appears, citing... this article! Should Wikipedia really be citing itself for something it's got no external reference for? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.37.81 ( talk) 17:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't agree with the references to Weyland's rape of Bodvild. The texts seem to suggest that she was seduced, not raped. There are references to them as "lovers" and their "lust" which do not imply rape to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.10.91.104 ( talk) 17:45, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
This happens a lot in myth studies, people seem almost eager to make things more dark and questionable. Nut it does not help that there are multiple versions and that some mythologies like greek were pretty rape filled. That all said I thought they got together willingly as well.
65.183.214.150 (
talk)
To add to the rape agenda. Old Norse, Thidrekssaga, Þiðreks saga , clearly says "seduced". Does this not meet wikilaw standards? Maybe there is a difference in some of the old text. But the fact remains that there are stories that mention her as an honoured, loved wife. Not a rape victim.
https://ppk.home.xs4all.nl/nibelung/sum.htm#VI
2601:806:4301:C100:3D03:652C:8417:1ECB ( talk) 21:12, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
The reference to cartoon character Waylon Smithers is pure speculation. This character has a wiki page, where it is referenced that the name Waylon came from the puppeteer Wayland Flowers. There is no evidence offered for any link between Wayland the Smith and the cartoon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wayo231 ( talk • contribs) 21:11, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Where did the story on here go about falling in love with, and rescuing Schwanhilde? 73.220.34.167 ( talk) 08:27, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
This one. Copied from here:
"Swanhilde is the daughter of a marriage between a mortal woman and a fairy king, who forbids his wife to ask about his origins; on her asking him he vanishes. Swanhilde and her sisters are however able to fly as swans. But wounded by a spear, Swanhilde falls to earth and is rescued by the master-craftsman Wieland, and marries him, putting aside her wings and her magic ring of power. Wieland's enemies, the Neidings, under Princess Bathilde, steal the ring, kidnap Swanhilde and destroy Wieland's home. When Wieland searches for Swanhilde, they entrap and cripple him. However he fashions wings for himself and escapes with Swanhilde as the house of the Neidings is destroyed." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:558:6012:5A:565:ABEA:FCDE:5BBD ( talk) 22:33, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
In old Scandinavian texts "Finn" refers mainly to Sámi (outdated form: "Lapp") rather than Finnish people. The term finnakonung is generally translated as "Sámi king", not "Finnish king". The literature tends to refer to Sámi chieftains/leaders as "Finn Kings", such as Svåse father of Snefrid in the stories of Harald Fairhair.
On a side note, it is interesting to consider Völundrs status as one of three sons of a "Finn king" in relation to the traditional Norwegian connection between smithy labor and Sámi ethnicity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.215.19.208 ( talk) 09:13, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
I'm not seeing any etymological information that supports Rosenfeld's "Wela-nandaz" as meaning "battle brave."
George T. Gillespie in, I believe, 'A Catalogue of Persons Named in Germanic Heroic Literature' suggests the name derives instead from the proto-germanic verb *welan/* Wilą -which pertains to crafting.
Encountering this for the first time, but does anyone know if there's a relation between Wayland and Daedalus? The stories seem similar (minus Icarus). Econtheory ( talk) 02:07, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 13:26, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
Wayland the Smith → Wayland (folklore) – The current title seems rather odd to me. In any primary source I've read on him he is just referred to by his name without "the Smith" added. Modern scholarship also seems to overwhelmingly go with just his name such as Wayland, Weland, Volund and so on. In my opinion, this page title should match common use in modern scholarship and primary sources rather than a title which seems not to have a great foundation. Ingwina ( talk) 09:46, 9 December 2022 (UTC)