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[[|right|frame|Ward Churchill- Perpertrated $2 Million Fraud pretending to be "Native American" gained notoriety by saying 9/11 victims received an appropriate "penalty"]] Ward LeRoy Churchill (born October 2, 1947) is an American academic currently under investigation for academic fraud who has also fraudulently claimed partly Native American descent, despite being officially recorded as white. Until controversy erupted over his remarks about 9/11, he was a somewhat obscure although well-paid leftist activist and author.
Key Ward Churchill Facts
I include this for the purposes only of debate. I certainly believe Ward Churchill to be a criminal however just as a Jewish editor can write of Hitler, I feel I can write objectively about Churchill, despite my strong opinions, which I have set out on my user page.
I cannot see any factual errors or point of view issues with the above. Is any of the above untrue. He does claim to be a native american despite having no evidence at all. He has made a lot of money as a result. He did say 9/11 victims were "little Eichmanns." He is being investigated for plagiarism. He is a leftist.
This is an important debate and whitewashing Churchill's public record is indeed very Orwellian (well Orwell would oppose it actually although not be surprised by it). We have on this discussion page a number of people whose contribution on Churchill has been repeatedly ignored by those with a strong POV who have whitewashed this article blatantly.
Perhaps when Churchill is finally terminated there will be a revisiting of the issue. I understand many CU donors and alumni are growing tired of him, just a matter of time.
JailWardChurchillNow 16:55, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This whole thing looks like a giant slander attempt, I mean "Ward Churchill- $92000 per annum Professor who Argues the Victims of 9/11 Deserved to be Killed" what a bunch of shit. This whole thing should be deleted and re-written without the hysterical right-wing biased.
Even better, now we have Ward Churchill- Perpertrated $2 Million Fraud pretending to be "Native American" gained notoriety by saying 9/11 victims received an appropriate "penalty". Im not sure how much money he makes really has anything to do with this. The biase seems to be getting worse here. --CT April 14 2005.(looks better now, I jumped the gun)
I believe it is wikipedia policy that you have to state a reason to remove cited info on the talk page first (you have to specifically state exactly why it wasn't NPOV and why it shouldn't be allowed in a bio, it is a response to the 9/11 essay criticism brouhaha so very relevant, and I should also note that professor Emma Perez took over as chairperson of the CU ethnic studies department after Churchill resigned that post, so her opinion is even more relevant). If it's written in POV fashion then we should correct that rather than delete? I look forward to your explanation on the talk page. zen master T 23:59, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Ok, first of all you seem to be misdirecting the issue in terms of counterpunch.org being a "POV website", that essay was written exclusively by a colleague of Ward Churchill's at CU so how is the location of the article relevant? Secondly, you seem to mention at length "American Indian experts" without saying much of anything. How does that relate to the paragraph I added that you removed? What previous editors have done to this article may also have been wrong, but I believe you have removed valid, factually cited information in a relevant article. Please succinctly list your exact reasons for the removal and let's please work together from here forward to bring the article inline with true wikipedia policy. zen master T 00:21, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Any previous discussion can not possibly be a justification for removing what appearss to be validly cited, factual new information, can it? If you have a problem with the wording then we can modify it, rather than deleting it entirely. I archived the old discussion because you placed this new section at the very top as opposed to the bottom which is the general talk page practice (it seemed to me your intent might be to hide this discussion?). I also only posted on your talk page once, and then made a copy edit. The treatment of Indians and previous talk page discussion is irrelevant to the issue of why you removed factually cited relevant new information, please come back to just that issue. To state thing more directly, you have yet to list any valid specific reason why you removed the Emma Perez essay info and in my opinion you have even failed to present an argument that can be debated logically. I will give you one more chance to defend your action before I create an RFC on this issue. zen master T 01:16, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It was written in the ethnicity portion of Churchill's article: "To date no one has specifically accused Ward Churchill of lying about his ancestry." Is such a statement true? I think many many people have specifically accused Ward Churchill of lying about his ancestry. While I agree none of these allegations have been proven, they were definitely made. I am suspecting what the writer meant was no formal allegations have been made against Ward Churchill by the University of Colorado regarding his ethnicity.
The article states: Churchill was hired by the University of Colorado partly because of ethnic background, and there is some speculation that he might be fired should he fail to prove his ethnicity. While the reference provided in that paragraph confirms the speculation part, it does support the Churchill was hired by the University of Colorado partly because of ethnic background. Is there any evidence (e.g, hiring committee deliberations) which supports the assertion that ethnicity was a factor in his hiring? While Affirmative Action allows ethnicity to be taken into account in hiring decisions, but it does not allow ethnic quotas - the position could not have been open only to any single ethnic group. Unless some sort of documentation can be provided for this part of the statement, it should not be stated as a fact. Guettarda 17:03, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Ok, you obviously know more about DNA testing than I do. Were you going to be the one that cleaned up the sentence that errantly states as a fact his ethnicity played a direct role in his hiring? zen master T 23:51, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
You're right, I should quit talking and do something, huh? :) Guettarda 00:03, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This recent report from the university should give you closure for this section (though I doubt that the controversy will end soon). "Report on Conclusion of Preliminary Review in the Matter of Professor Ward Churchill" [3]. -- Dan O. 16:43, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have been following the Churchill controversy and have some of the documents, or their locations. A copy of an e-mail concerning the Churchill hiring decision states that it is a positive factor in the hiring decision (increasing cultural diversity on campus). The e-mail can be accessed at http://www.khow.com/img/cu-email-2.html
Whosear
Sorry, I'm just now learning how to use these comments. On the point in contention: the hired-as-an-Indian question has been mooted by the three-member review committee, wherein they said "The question about Professor Churchill's employment application must be considered closed as a result of this ten-year old review." What remains for the Standing Committee on Research Misconduct to decide is--in the words of that same three-member committee--"whether Professor Churchill has attempted to gain a scholarly voice, credibility, and an audience for his scholarship by wrongfully asserting that he is an Indian."
So does the L. stand for Leroy, or not?
Calicocat writes: I maintain the issues of Freedom of Speech and Academic Freedom are cental to the Ward Churchill controversy and at the root of this article's content. Others fought hard to have these issues removed, a manifestation, perhaps, of the extant fight againt freedom of speech and academic freedom itself. It was falsely asserted that inclusion of this material was an "essay," when in fact it was a well crafted, highly germane and sourced section, researched and added to focus on these critical issues. In looking at this article again, and having followed the news on Churchill, I still am of the opinion that these issues are perhaps the most materially significant to understanding the controversy surrounding Churchill, certainly at least equal to his disputed ethnicity. I am still of the opinion this material would have added valuable information to the article -- even including the break in style of adding the two free links within quoted text was warranted and would have added richness to the overall article.
When a man's life is threatened, when his livelihood is attacked (as is the case with Churchill); when a venerable institution like Hamilton is theatened with violence, it is appropriate to devote some space in the article to what the institution involved said about it, to read the references contained in Hamilton's statment, and to examin other views on the subject.
It was my intention to add more views and develop this section, but after its removal I lost interest and was "fired" as an editor on this article. As it stands these hub issues are inadequately reduced to but one line in the article, but do not deserve to be given such short shrift. As others have said on these talk pages, the only really interesting thing about Churchill is this essay controvery, cental to that are the issues of Freedom of Speech and academic freedom. Therefore, I'm placing the original section here, between lines, so it may be considered by any who might take interest in the real heart of Churchill controversy. See below: (section removed from article. Lines added to demark removed material; some slight editing to original draft) Calicocat 10:03, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Section Heading: Freedom of Speech/Academic Freedom
Churchill's role as an academic, combined with the public controversy over his 9/11 essay have seen calls for his censure, dismissal from his position, prosection as a traitor and theats against his life (as well as credible threats of violence against Hamilton College). These have raised serious issues related to academic freedom and freedom of speech.
On March 3, 2005, Hamilton College, a private instituion, released a statement saying: [4]
The Hamilton College statment goes on saying:
(end section removed) Calicocat 10:03, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
User:911focus, in the text you just added
to which demonstrations is Churchill referring? This is ambiguous. -- 21:39, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Who wrote this question? Sign your name.---- Keetoowah 13:22, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
(copied here, from User talk:Fred_Bauder)
I am an enrolled member of Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and I used to work for the BIA. I added into the article the written opinions of people that have researched Churchill's Indian ancestry and 99% of these Indian folks point out that Churchill has not provided the basic information required to prove that he is an Indian. I put it up last night and it much of it was taken down early this morning. It was information where I provided sources for the comments. I understand that what I wrote can and should be edited. But taking out information that provides sources and citations seems to be an attempt to stifle the information. Dear Fred Bauder, it IS fair to ask if Churchill really is an Indian. He is taking away from actual Indian people the ability to speak for themselves. He has build his whole career on being someone who has experienced the oppression of a minority culture. It is similar to a white middle class Protestant person from Idaho was writing books about himself being a Jew in Hitler's Germany. And don't even say that I just made a inaccurate analogy because Churchill himself compares and uses Hitler and Nazi analogies. I'm sure that is how you learned about him in the first place because he made this most recent comment about 9/11 victims are all "Eichmann's." Look, providing information about whether you are an Indian or not should not be that difficult. Why? You have Indian parents. It is simple as that. Even if you don't have brothers and sisters then you have Indian parents and your parents have brothers and sisters. Correct? Why doesn't anyone in Indian Country know any of these people? This is NOT a cheap shot as you indicated above. It goes to the heart of who he claims that he is. As Suzan Harjo pointed out: Churchill is taking jobs and speaking engagements from real actual Indians and building a whole career on it. Those jobs and speaking engagements should go to actual Indian. Also, Harjo made the point that Churchill's comments are having a backlash and where is that backlash going? On to Indian Country. Look, no one believes that he should not have the right to say what he wants. We all believe in the First Amendment even if it is difficult speech. However, just don't run around and claim that you are an Indian when you aren't and that you personally have been oppressed. Let's say that I am a white person that lives in Kentucky and I attend a Baptist church and my parents came the United States from South Africa, do you really believe that I could run around and write books on Irish experience of oppression in Belfast? No. But that is what he is doing. And you are calling it a cheap shot. It is not a cheap shot. It goes to who and what he is. He is what we call in Indian Country a Wannabee. There is a whole tribe of Indians called the Wannabee Indians and he is the Chief. The people that making the complaints about his fake Indian heritage are not conservatives by any stretch of the imagination either: Suzan Harjo (worked for Bill Clinton), Dennis Banks (Founder of the American Indian Movement), etc. He can say wherever he wants about 9/11 or America, but he shouldn't lie and claim that he is an Indian when he isn't. And schools like the Univ of Colorado should do a better job of doing there homework when they hire a someone and put out to the world that he is an Indian because he isn't.----Keetoowah 17:45, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
User:Rex071404 wrote above:
Rex071404 also brought this matter up on my talk page, and I am taking the liberty of replying here. In my understanding of the term, "racial stereotyping" has a strong perjorative component. A notorious example would be the practice by some police departments of stopping black drivers more frequently than white ones, the assumption being that blacks are more likely to be engaged in illegal activities (or whatever). I don't think Fred was being perjorative with that comment; it was a simple observation. While we can argue whether Fred is correct, I don't think we can claim he was being offensive. After all, we all carry traces of our ethnic background in our faces. -- Viajero 10:58, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
While discussing Ward Churchill recently on his personal talk page, Fred Bauder said this: "However, judging from his appearance I do think he probably has some Native American ancestory".. I am part Native American ( Mi'kmaq aka Micmac), most certainly more so than Mr. Churchill and I don't like to be judged by my appearance. I think Bauder's comments are offensive racial stereotyping. I think he ought to apologize and have basically said as much on his talk page. What do you think? Rex071404 216.153.214.94 08:38, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
(copied from User talk:Fred_Bauder):
(copied from User talk:Rex071404):
It would have been less prone to misinterpretation, had you said that to begin with. Still, you would never say that someone "has a big nose" or "thick lips" and then suggest that they are this or that, would you? Why then try to divine Churchill's geneology from his appearance? And by doing that, aren't you weighing your edits with your personal opinion? And if so, that's truly POV. The public facts do not reasonably support any assertions or suppositions about Churchill actually being a Native American (not in any true sense). That being the case, I frankly am unmoved that you "feel we should take his word for it" based on your personal opinion of his appearance. I think Fred, as an attorney, you ought to be able to see the error of your logic here. Your personal feelings are not one of the public facts which we can rest our editorial standards on. Indeed, we've already established that such methods are not the rule here - as evidenced by the fierce way my personal feelings are scrubbed by others from articles such as John Kerry. Also, as evidence by the blocking of my edits to Dedham, Massachusetts, it's not enough that an individual editor personally "know" or "feel" something to be true. Rather, it must be backed up by public fact sources that other editors will accept. I have two problems with using your "feelings" as a source: a) feelings are subject to change and therefore are not reliable as an ongoing fact referrence and b) I am repulsed by the notion we ought to judge people by appearance. That said, thanks for answering about Ward Churchill. But, I am still curious, why did you not answer my email? And why do you stand mute on that topic in this reply to me? Rex071404 216.153.214.94 15:58, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Ward Churchill is white. He all but admits it himself. For a "native American" activist, this is a central and crucial fact that deserves prominence in this article.
Ward Churchill would not be noteworthy at all except for his remarks about the victims of 9/11 which deserve the highest prominence. They are very confronting views, and while I don't agree with them, deserve to be prominently displayed with little editorializing.
Ward Churchill has a checkered academic history with many claims of plagiarism that would have brought down others. His ethics violations must also be detailed.
Carlshooters 18:32, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Fanatics have taken over this article. The key characteristics of Ward "Rich White Guy" Churchill are:
To whitewash any of the above out of the article is dishonest in the extreme. Johnnyio 21:34, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Many of the proposed changes are inaccurate and very poor word choices are being attempted, "a systematic fraudster"? come on. The accusations of lack of true native american ethnicity strike me as an attempt to frame the debate away from Churchill's criticisms of U.S. policy that may be related to 9/11. It wouldn't be as notable if someone was accused of not being of native american decent, the essence of the Ward Churchill controversy is over his 9/11 essays, the article should primarily focus on that. zen master T 21:53, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I reverted for POV usage of "fraudster" (among other massive POV). The word choices in the massive edit is very poor suggestive POV wise. zen master T 22:04, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thank you to those contributing to a much improved article. There are agenda pushers here who must be opposed. Together we can improve the article and take it out of the hands of Marxists. Johnnyio 03:26, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
As a Muslim and new user, I took some interest in this exchange. I believe some of the rhetorics involved are inappropriate. However, the quotation about the occupants of the World Trade Center ought to be included in full so people can make their own assessment. The issue of whether he is really an Indian and the accusations of fraud and so on seem less pertinent. HishamMelham 16:40, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The blocking of those attempting to bring balance to the article is a major concern. Indeed one user foreshadowed that Viajero would bring in the Thought Police to stop any changes he disagreed with. Prescient.
My own belief as disclosed fully in my user page is that Ward Churchill has indeed engaged in massive fraud against CU and his readers. If I write a book about how I was an oppressed Arab slave in Saddam Hussein's dungeon and it turns out that I am a Norwegian aristocrat then it would be justly said of me that I was:
Ward Churchill by falsely claiming Indian heritage has lost all credibility from the start. His views on 9/11 while macabre and evil are not that relevant. Not now. The debate has moved on to whether the taxpayers should continue to pay him $92000 per annum and whether his readers should continue to support a man so clearly morally bankrupt and politically fraudulent. JailWardChurchillNow 17:06, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Ward Churchill's late-night threatening telephone calls to a woman who complained about him plagiarizing her work is currently being investigated by UC.
There are apparently new colleagues coming out with their own stories about how Ward Churchill threatened them over various issues at the Ethnic Studies department which he ruled in a totalitarian and sexist manner.
Why are these issues not dealt with adequately in the article? Why protect an article that serves only to desperately rehabilitate the reputation of a disgraced academic who is months away from losing his position. JailWardChurchillNow 17:15, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The problem here is outrageous personal attacks and hyperbolice opinions being inserted into the article in huge blocks. Lets' take it a paragraph at a time and do not mess with the lead until consensus is reached on the body of the text.-- Cberlet 20:31, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
As Curps has had to protect that page again, feel free to use Ward Churchill/Temp as a sandbox for changes. Don't take any notice of vandalism attempts, don't bother to revert them, just choose an unvandalized version from the history and edit your proposed changes into it. Consensual changes can then be inserted into the protected article by an administrator. Sorry to have to do it this way, but it seems like the only way to deal with the opinionated loonies. -- Tony Sidaway| Talk 20:52, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Use of sockpuppet accounts to carry on an edit war (reverts) is against Wikipedia policy (see for instance Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Iasson).
Articles in Wikipedia have to read like encyclopedia articles. They should not read like blog entries or impassioned essays.
See also Wikipedia:Neutral point of view
-- Curps 21:20, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Yes exactly right. The only reason Churchill is notable is his offensive commentary about 9/11, to exclude a full description or quotation of the these comments is most unencyclopedic. This article is the captive of those who love or hate Churchill.
If he is being investigated (I believe he was being but don't know what has happened subsequently) for academic integrity issues that should be noted but so should academic freedom principles which go to the heart of tenure.
If he's a plagiarist, he will be sacked, there is no need to try him on Wikipedia. If he's just guilty of speaking his mind (however disgusting his views) as long as he's not being racist then it's vital his position be defended. You may as well shut down universities if professors cannot speak out, even in the most provocative manner.
I agree his salary should be disclosed because it is not unusually high for a senior academician but he should not be beaten over the head for it nor for making a living.
Reading through the article I get the impression that it is cobbled together with an introduction that is probably not sufficiently detailed about Churchill's controversies. There is plenty of detail of it in the rest of the article so the main question is how to provide a meaningful introduction without tabloid sensationalist claims about an imagined $2 million fraud. To my mind he's controversial enough without inventing cr*p. Academicintegrity 21:44, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think we need to clearly differentiate between the controversy over Churchill's 9/11 essays (which is what started the controversy in the first place), and the subsequent follow on attempts at discrediting him (such as can't prove native american decent, and charges of plagiarism). zen master T 21:49, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In the spirit of compromise between two versions, I have re-incorporated a couple of paragraphs from the "other" version that seem to be written in an NPOV manner and cite references (reporting comments by Colorado governor, relevant detail from paper by Brown). In a revert-on-sight edit war, sometimes even contributions like this get reverted away in the crossfire (another reason why us-against-the-world edit wars are counterproductive).
Also the introductory paragraph needed a little more detail: the intense media scrutiny over the essay was only the start of the affair. The role of conservative bloggers, commentators and state lawmakers in fanning the controversy should be mentioned, but also the basic details of the controversy itself, which quickly moved beyond the essay itself. -- Curps 21:53, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The intro should succinctly summarize what the 9/11 controversy was over and mention that it is the primary controversy. "cause celebre'" doesn't tell the reader anything. Intro should mention free speech in addition to "academic freedom". The last sentence in the intro is redundant (the article already states at the very top his claim of native american heritage is disputed). zen master T 22:02, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hey calm down. What fraud are we talking about? The accusations of academic fraud which include claims he lied on his job application (of fifteen years ago! that's how desperate his critics are) and plagiarism. As anyone who has worked in an educational instituion is aware, these are serious matters which are dealt with properly and not conducted in witch-hunt style. I have made some compromise proposals for the introduction. The rest of the article seems to have been written by committee and needs a rewrite too.
I understand your sensitivity about the issue after I read your user page and I respect your view but the article is not and cannot be a forum for Churchill bashing. I personally find his remarks about the victims of 9/11 disgusting as I have said. One of my oldest friends went missing that day and has never been found. He was a janitor, so hardly a contributor to US imperialism. So that's my view, and it doesn't prevent me from seeing bigger issues like academic freedom and integrity. Without them we have no universities, no learning and no society. Academicintegrity 22:19, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I note there are changes going on on a protected page. I think there are a problems with what is being written there, mainly stylistic problems. Are we going to review the Temp page or the protected one? I believe a one paragraph introduction is enough. Academicintegrity 22:29, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I really don't wish to offend at all. If he lied in his job application about his heritage then he will have a problem, I am the first to concede that. Same applies with plagiarism etc. The point is that we need to be careful not to attack someone's heritage or claims to it without very carefully considering the evidence. I believe your view is important and the dispute over his heritage should be recorded - prominently - in the article. My concern is that all of this is being dredged up to remove him for expressing an unpopular view. I find his view disgusting but I defend to the death his right to say it. What would be the point of having education if professors had to ensure everything they said or wrote or thought was popular with Bill Owens. It would have a chilling effect on education that would undermine everything we cherish about learning. Sure, some things are out of bounds like racism but expressing an unpopular political view should always be protected, academic freedom doesn't need to protect popular views or popular people, it is there to protect minorities, provocative people. That's the point. If he's the fake charade fraud that you say (and I really have no way of knowing) then presumably he will be exposed by the UC inquiry. And if he isn't then can we calm down and leave him go back to teaching??? Academicintegrity 23:07, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've benchmarked Viajero's edit of 14:20, 16 Apr 2005 in the article sandbox for a possible update of the main article. I am deliberately avoiding examining the content, because I just want to facilitate rather than influence editing.
You can look at differences between the sandbox version and the current protected version by looking at this diff link.
What is the general feeling about that version? Would there be serious objections if I updated the main article from that version? I'd like to do that if the general feeling is that it's an improvement on the current, protected, version. The idea is that I'd update today now that everybody has had a chance to work on improving it in the sandbox version. I'll do the same the next day and so on until the article is unprotected. -- Tony Sidaway| Talk 16:17, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
PS I urge those who haven't to read the Weekly Standard (yes, that Weekly Standard) article about Ward Churchill. It's not favorable to him, as we might have expected but it's worth a read because it shows:
All in all it's a very interesting exchange the conservative and Churchill have, I recommend it to those interested. Ward Churchill v Weekly Standard
TonyMarvin 04:57, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[ American Indian Movement Grand Governing Council Statement on Ward Churchill]
I think it is worth reproducing this in full here so we can reflect on the amazingly strong denunciation of Churchill by the people he claims affiliation with. I find the strength of the language particularly puzzling (he is accused of rip-off, fraud, being hateful, outrageous, etc. etc.) Can someone explain the status of the American Indian Movement? Is it the central movement for American Indians or a conservative group? If it is a group with some status then I believe it is imperative the article reflect this. I apologize for assuming Keetoowah was just agenda-pushing about the Indian fraud claims, there does seem to genuine angst about Churchill's claims to Indian heritage within their community and it would be misleading and paternalistic not to acknowledge that prominently. This is indeed a complex issue and the article should reflect that. TonyMarvin 05:33, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
AMERICAN INDIAN MOVEMENT GRAND GOVERNING COUNCIL
MINISTRY FOR INFORMATION P.O. Box 13521 Minneapolis MN 55414 612/ 721-3914 . fax 612/ 721-7826 Email: aimggc@worldnet.att.net Web Address: www.aimovement.org
Ward Churchill was scheduled to speak at Hamilton College in Clinton, New York on February 3, 2005. His appearance was canceled by the college after he caused a public furor over his loathsome remarks about the 9-11 tragedy in New York. AIM's Grand Governing Council has been dealing with Churchill's hateful attitude and rip-off of Indian people for years.
The American Indian Movement Grand Governing Council representing the National and International leadership of the American Indian Movement once again is vehemently and emphatically repudiating and condemning the outrageous statements made by academic literary and Indian fraud, Ward Churchill in relationship to the 9-11 tragedy in New York City that claimed thousands of innocent people’s lives.
Churchill’s statement that these people deserved what happened to them, and calling them little Eichmanns, comparing them to Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann, who implemented Adolf Hitler’s plan to exterminate European Jews and others, should be condemned by all.
The sorry part of this is Ward Churchill has fraudulently represented himself as an Indian, and a member of the American Indian Movement, a situation that has lifted him into the position of a lecturer on Indian activism. He has used the American Indian Movement’s chapter in Denver to attack the leadership of the official American Indian Movement with his misinformation and propaganda campaigns.
Ward Churchill has been masquerading as an Indian for years behind his dark glasses and beaded headband. He waves around an honorary membership card that at one time was issued to anyone by the Keetoowah Tribe of Oklahoma. Former President Bill Clinton and many others received these cards, but these cards do not qualify the holder a member of any tribe. He has deceitfully and treacherously fooled innocent and naïve Indian community members in Denver, Colorado, as well as many other people worldwide. Churchill does not represent, nor does he speak on behalf of the American Indian Movement.
New York’s Hamilton College Kirklands Project should be aware that in their search for truth and justice, the idea that they have hired a fraud to speak on Indian activism is in itself a betrayal of their goals.
Dennis J. Banks, Ojibwa Nation Chairman of the Board American Indian Movement Phone: 218-654-5885
Nee Gon Nway Wee Dung, aka, Clyde H. Bellecourt, Ojibwa Nation National Executive Director American Indian Movement Cell: 612-251-5836 Office: 612-724-3129
Press Contact: WaBun-Inini, aka, Vernon Bellecourt, Ojibwa Nation Executive Committee Member Director Council on Foreign Relations American Indian Movement Office: 612-721-3914 Cell: 612-889-0796
See the following:
Us vs AIM
Us vs AIM Backgound
Indian Country Today: Editors' Report
Keetoowah Tribe Response
The Public's Response
Churchill Cartoon
For more information regarding Churchill’s fraudulent enrollment:
United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians of Oklahoma Enrollment officer: 918-431-0385 or 918-456-8698
Tony, as a contrasting point of view to the one above, here is how the Indian activist Russel Means introduced Ward Churchill when the latter gave a speech February 8, 2005, at the University of Colorado. (I'd recommend reading it in its entirety if you have a chance: [9] -- Viajero 11:32, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
TonyMarvin 09:00, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I have a feeling there is a conservative v liberal spat over this article, which has not been at all helpful in getting it settled. I believe neither view on its own makes for a very good article. I am I admit quite liberal most of the time (although I don't think my country is evil as Ward seems to, indeed the whole problem with the Bush Administration is that wants to defend the country at the expense sometimes of removing the rights that make us worth protecting) and I value academic freedom as a cornerstone of education (and liberty itself). But that doesn't mean I think we should remove everything controversial about Ward out of the first paragraph as Zenmaster/Viajero seems to be advocating nor that it read like an indictment as Hausaud and others have proposed. I have tried to include everything relevant from the two versions with counterpoints so there's a pro/con thing going on. I think this is the most informative and fair way of dealing with it. Perhaps then we can look at the rest of the article if my format is deemed acceptable. TonyMarvin 09:00, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The temp version still needs a lot of work. "He grew up in a white family..." implies he's definitely 100% white. I don't think the current version mentions the "little Eichemans" statement at all. The resolution passed by colorado state legislature is way over the top, the article keeps repeating the same mantra over and over again, focusing on churchill "attacking" the innocent victims of the 9/11 attacks rather than focusing on what he was saying, namely there are reasons people are attacking us because of our imperialistic policies around the world. zen master T 18:05, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Has everyone given up on the /Temp version? (I think it still needs massive POV clean up work). Should people just start editing from the non temp version? zen master T 02:07, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
[[|right|frame|Ward Churchill- Perpertrated $2 Million Fraud pretending to be "Native American" gained notoriety by saying 9/11 victims received an appropriate "penalty"]] Ward LeRoy Churchill (born October 2, 1947) is an American academic currently under investigation for academic fraud who has also fraudulently claimed partly Native American descent, despite being officially recorded as white. Until controversy erupted over his remarks about 9/11, he was a somewhat obscure although well-paid leftist activist and author.
Key Ward Churchill Facts
I include this for the purposes only of debate. I certainly believe Ward Churchill to be a criminal however just as a Jewish editor can write of Hitler, I feel I can write objectively about Churchill, despite my strong opinions, which I have set out on my user page.
I cannot see any factual errors or point of view issues with the above. Is any of the above untrue. He does claim to be a native american despite having no evidence at all. He has made a lot of money as a result. He did say 9/11 victims were "little Eichmanns." He is being investigated for plagiarism. He is a leftist.
This is an important debate and whitewashing Churchill's public record is indeed very Orwellian (well Orwell would oppose it actually although not be surprised by it). We have on this discussion page a number of people whose contribution on Churchill has been repeatedly ignored by those with a strong POV who have whitewashed this article blatantly.
Perhaps when Churchill is finally terminated there will be a revisiting of the issue. I understand many CU donors and alumni are growing tired of him, just a matter of time.
JailWardChurchillNow 16:55, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This whole thing looks like a giant slander attempt, I mean "Ward Churchill- $92000 per annum Professor who Argues the Victims of 9/11 Deserved to be Killed" what a bunch of shit. This whole thing should be deleted and re-written without the hysterical right-wing biased.
Even better, now we have Ward Churchill- Perpertrated $2 Million Fraud pretending to be "Native American" gained notoriety by saying 9/11 victims received an appropriate "penalty". Im not sure how much money he makes really has anything to do with this. The biase seems to be getting worse here. --CT April 14 2005.(looks better now, I jumped the gun)
I believe it is wikipedia policy that you have to state a reason to remove cited info on the talk page first (you have to specifically state exactly why it wasn't NPOV and why it shouldn't be allowed in a bio, it is a response to the 9/11 essay criticism brouhaha so very relevant, and I should also note that professor Emma Perez took over as chairperson of the CU ethnic studies department after Churchill resigned that post, so her opinion is even more relevant). If it's written in POV fashion then we should correct that rather than delete? I look forward to your explanation on the talk page. zen master T 23:59, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Ok, first of all you seem to be misdirecting the issue in terms of counterpunch.org being a "POV website", that essay was written exclusively by a colleague of Ward Churchill's at CU so how is the location of the article relevant? Secondly, you seem to mention at length "American Indian experts" without saying much of anything. How does that relate to the paragraph I added that you removed? What previous editors have done to this article may also have been wrong, but I believe you have removed valid, factually cited information in a relevant article. Please succinctly list your exact reasons for the removal and let's please work together from here forward to bring the article inline with true wikipedia policy. zen master T 00:21, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Any previous discussion can not possibly be a justification for removing what appearss to be validly cited, factual new information, can it? If you have a problem with the wording then we can modify it, rather than deleting it entirely. I archived the old discussion because you placed this new section at the very top as opposed to the bottom which is the general talk page practice (it seemed to me your intent might be to hide this discussion?). I also only posted on your talk page once, and then made a copy edit. The treatment of Indians and previous talk page discussion is irrelevant to the issue of why you removed factually cited relevant new information, please come back to just that issue. To state thing more directly, you have yet to list any valid specific reason why you removed the Emma Perez essay info and in my opinion you have even failed to present an argument that can be debated logically. I will give you one more chance to defend your action before I create an RFC on this issue. zen master T 01:16, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It was written in the ethnicity portion of Churchill's article: "To date no one has specifically accused Ward Churchill of lying about his ancestry." Is such a statement true? I think many many people have specifically accused Ward Churchill of lying about his ancestry. While I agree none of these allegations have been proven, they were definitely made. I am suspecting what the writer meant was no formal allegations have been made against Ward Churchill by the University of Colorado regarding his ethnicity.
The article states: Churchill was hired by the University of Colorado partly because of ethnic background, and there is some speculation that he might be fired should he fail to prove his ethnicity. While the reference provided in that paragraph confirms the speculation part, it does support the Churchill was hired by the University of Colorado partly because of ethnic background. Is there any evidence (e.g, hiring committee deliberations) which supports the assertion that ethnicity was a factor in his hiring? While Affirmative Action allows ethnicity to be taken into account in hiring decisions, but it does not allow ethnic quotas - the position could not have been open only to any single ethnic group. Unless some sort of documentation can be provided for this part of the statement, it should not be stated as a fact. Guettarda 17:03, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Ok, you obviously know more about DNA testing than I do. Were you going to be the one that cleaned up the sentence that errantly states as a fact his ethnicity played a direct role in his hiring? zen master T 23:51, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
You're right, I should quit talking and do something, huh? :) Guettarda 00:03, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This recent report from the university should give you closure for this section (though I doubt that the controversy will end soon). "Report on Conclusion of Preliminary Review in the Matter of Professor Ward Churchill" [3]. -- Dan O. 16:43, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have been following the Churchill controversy and have some of the documents, or their locations. A copy of an e-mail concerning the Churchill hiring decision states that it is a positive factor in the hiring decision (increasing cultural diversity on campus). The e-mail can be accessed at http://www.khow.com/img/cu-email-2.html
Whosear
Sorry, I'm just now learning how to use these comments. On the point in contention: the hired-as-an-Indian question has been mooted by the three-member review committee, wherein they said "The question about Professor Churchill's employment application must be considered closed as a result of this ten-year old review." What remains for the Standing Committee on Research Misconduct to decide is--in the words of that same three-member committee--"whether Professor Churchill has attempted to gain a scholarly voice, credibility, and an audience for his scholarship by wrongfully asserting that he is an Indian."
So does the L. stand for Leroy, or not?
Calicocat writes: I maintain the issues of Freedom of Speech and Academic Freedom are cental to the Ward Churchill controversy and at the root of this article's content. Others fought hard to have these issues removed, a manifestation, perhaps, of the extant fight againt freedom of speech and academic freedom itself. It was falsely asserted that inclusion of this material was an "essay," when in fact it was a well crafted, highly germane and sourced section, researched and added to focus on these critical issues. In looking at this article again, and having followed the news on Churchill, I still am of the opinion that these issues are perhaps the most materially significant to understanding the controversy surrounding Churchill, certainly at least equal to his disputed ethnicity. I am still of the opinion this material would have added valuable information to the article -- even including the break in style of adding the two free links within quoted text was warranted and would have added richness to the overall article.
When a man's life is threatened, when his livelihood is attacked (as is the case with Churchill); when a venerable institution like Hamilton is theatened with violence, it is appropriate to devote some space in the article to what the institution involved said about it, to read the references contained in Hamilton's statment, and to examin other views on the subject.
It was my intention to add more views and develop this section, but after its removal I lost interest and was "fired" as an editor on this article. As it stands these hub issues are inadequately reduced to but one line in the article, but do not deserve to be given such short shrift. As others have said on these talk pages, the only really interesting thing about Churchill is this essay controvery, cental to that are the issues of Freedom of Speech and academic freedom. Therefore, I'm placing the original section here, between lines, so it may be considered by any who might take interest in the real heart of Churchill controversy. See below: (section removed from article. Lines added to demark removed material; some slight editing to original draft) Calicocat 10:03, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Section Heading: Freedom of Speech/Academic Freedom
Churchill's role as an academic, combined with the public controversy over his 9/11 essay have seen calls for his censure, dismissal from his position, prosection as a traitor and theats against his life (as well as credible threats of violence against Hamilton College). These have raised serious issues related to academic freedom and freedom of speech.
On March 3, 2005, Hamilton College, a private instituion, released a statement saying: [4]
The Hamilton College statment goes on saying:
(end section removed) Calicocat 10:03, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
User:911focus, in the text you just added
to which demonstrations is Churchill referring? This is ambiguous. -- 21:39, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Who wrote this question? Sign your name.---- Keetoowah 13:22, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
(copied here, from User talk:Fred_Bauder)
I am an enrolled member of Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and I used to work for the BIA. I added into the article the written opinions of people that have researched Churchill's Indian ancestry and 99% of these Indian folks point out that Churchill has not provided the basic information required to prove that he is an Indian. I put it up last night and it much of it was taken down early this morning. It was information where I provided sources for the comments. I understand that what I wrote can and should be edited. But taking out information that provides sources and citations seems to be an attempt to stifle the information. Dear Fred Bauder, it IS fair to ask if Churchill really is an Indian. He is taking away from actual Indian people the ability to speak for themselves. He has build his whole career on being someone who has experienced the oppression of a minority culture. It is similar to a white middle class Protestant person from Idaho was writing books about himself being a Jew in Hitler's Germany. And don't even say that I just made a inaccurate analogy because Churchill himself compares and uses Hitler and Nazi analogies. I'm sure that is how you learned about him in the first place because he made this most recent comment about 9/11 victims are all "Eichmann's." Look, providing information about whether you are an Indian or not should not be that difficult. Why? You have Indian parents. It is simple as that. Even if you don't have brothers and sisters then you have Indian parents and your parents have brothers and sisters. Correct? Why doesn't anyone in Indian Country know any of these people? This is NOT a cheap shot as you indicated above. It goes to the heart of who he claims that he is. As Suzan Harjo pointed out: Churchill is taking jobs and speaking engagements from real actual Indians and building a whole career on it. Those jobs and speaking engagements should go to actual Indian. Also, Harjo made the point that Churchill's comments are having a backlash and where is that backlash going? On to Indian Country. Look, no one believes that he should not have the right to say what he wants. We all believe in the First Amendment even if it is difficult speech. However, just don't run around and claim that you are an Indian when you aren't and that you personally have been oppressed. Let's say that I am a white person that lives in Kentucky and I attend a Baptist church and my parents came the United States from South Africa, do you really believe that I could run around and write books on Irish experience of oppression in Belfast? No. But that is what he is doing. And you are calling it a cheap shot. It is not a cheap shot. It goes to who and what he is. He is what we call in Indian Country a Wannabee. There is a whole tribe of Indians called the Wannabee Indians and he is the Chief. The people that making the complaints about his fake Indian heritage are not conservatives by any stretch of the imagination either: Suzan Harjo (worked for Bill Clinton), Dennis Banks (Founder of the American Indian Movement), etc. He can say wherever he wants about 9/11 or America, but he shouldn't lie and claim that he is an Indian when he isn't. And schools like the Univ of Colorado should do a better job of doing there homework when they hire a someone and put out to the world that he is an Indian because he isn't.----Keetoowah 17:45, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
User:Rex071404 wrote above:
Rex071404 also brought this matter up on my talk page, and I am taking the liberty of replying here. In my understanding of the term, "racial stereotyping" has a strong perjorative component. A notorious example would be the practice by some police departments of stopping black drivers more frequently than white ones, the assumption being that blacks are more likely to be engaged in illegal activities (or whatever). I don't think Fred was being perjorative with that comment; it was a simple observation. While we can argue whether Fred is correct, I don't think we can claim he was being offensive. After all, we all carry traces of our ethnic background in our faces. -- Viajero 10:58, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
While discussing Ward Churchill recently on his personal talk page, Fred Bauder said this: "However, judging from his appearance I do think he probably has some Native American ancestory".. I am part Native American ( Mi'kmaq aka Micmac), most certainly more so than Mr. Churchill and I don't like to be judged by my appearance. I think Bauder's comments are offensive racial stereotyping. I think he ought to apologize and have basically said as much on his talk page. What do you think? Rex071404 216.153.214.94 08:38, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
(copied from User talk:Fred_Bauder):
(copied from User talk:Rex071404):
It would have been less prone to misinterpretation, had you said that to begin with. Still, you would never say that someone "has a big nose" or "thick lips" and then suggest that they are this or that, would you? Why then try to divine Churchill's geneology from his appearance? And by doing that, aren't you weighing your edits with your personal opinion? And if so, that's truly POV. The public facts do not reasonably support any assertions or suppositions about Churchill actually being a Native American (not in any true sense). That being the case, I frankly am unmoved that you "feel we should take his word for it" based on your personal opinion of his appearance. I think Fred, as an attorney, you ought to be able to see the error of your logic here. Your personal feelings are not one of the public facts which we can rest our editorial standards on. Indeed, we've already established that such methods are not the rule here - as evidenced by the fierce way my personal feelings are scrubbed by others from articles such as John Kerry. Also, as evidence by the blocking of my edits to Dedham, Massachusetts, it's not enough that an individual editor personally "know" or "feel" something to be true. Rather, it must be backed up by public fact sources that other editors will accept. I have two problems with using your "feelings" as a source: a) feelings are subject to change and therefore are not reliable as an ongoing fact referrence and b) I am repulsed by the notion we ought to judge people by appearance. That said, thanks for answering about Ward Churchill. But, I am still curious, why did you not answer my email? And why do you stand mute on that topic in this reply to me? Rex071404 216.153.214.94 15:58, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Ward Churchill is white. He all but admits it himself. For a "native American" activist, this is a central and crucial fact that deserves prominence in this article.
Ward Churchill would not be noteworthy at all except for his remarks about the victims of 9/11 which deserve the highest prominence. They are very confronting views, and while I don't agree with them, deserve to be prominently displayed with little editorializing.
Ward Churchill has a checkered academic history with many claims of plagiarism that would have brought down others. His ethics violations must also be detailed.
Carlshooters 18:32, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Fanatics have taken over this article. The key characteristics of Ward "Rich White Guy" Churchill are:
To whitewash any of the above out of the article is dishonest in the extreme. Johnnyio 21:34, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Many of the proposed changes are inaccurate and very poor word choices are being attempted, "a systematic fraudster"? come on. The accusations of lack of true native american ethnicity strike me as an attempt to frame the debate away from Churchill's criticisms of U.S. policy that may be related to 9/11. It wouldn't be as notable if someone was accused of not being of native american decent, the essence of the Ward Churchill controversy is over his 9/11 essays, the article should primarily focus on that. zen master T 21:53, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I reverted for POV usage of "fraudster" (among other massive POV). The word choices in the massive edit is very poor suggestive POV wise. zen master T 22:04, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thank you to those contributing to a much improved article. There are agenda pushers here who must be opposed. Together we can improve the article and take it out of the hands of Marxists. Johnnyio 03:26, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
As a Muslim and new user, I took some interest in this exchange. I believe some of the rhetorics involved are inappropriate. However, the quotation about the occupants of the World Trade Center ought to be included in full so people can make their own assessment. The issue of whether he is really an Indian and the accusations of fraud and so on seem less pertinent. HishamMelham 16:40, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The blocking of those attempting to bring balance to the article is a major concern. Indeed one user foreshadowed that Viajero would bring in the Thought Police to stop any changes he disagreed with. Prescient.
My own belief as disclosed fully in my user page is that Ward Churchill has indeed engaged in massive fraud against CU and his readers. If I write a book about how I was an oppressed Arab slave in Saddam Hussein's dungeon and it turns out that I am a Norwegian aristocrat then it would be justly said of me that I was:
Ward Churchill by falsely claiming Indian heritage has lost all credibility from the start. His views on 9/11 while macabre and evil are not that relevant. Not now. The debate has moved on to whether the taxpayers should continue to pay him $92000 per annum and whether his readers should continue to support a man so clearly morally bankrupt and politically fraudulent. JailWardChurchillNow 17:06, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Ward Churchill's late-night threatening telephone calls to a woman who complained about him plagiarizing her work is currently being investigated by UC.
There are apparently new colleagues coming out with their own stories about how Ward Churchill threatened them over various issues at the Ethnic Studies department which he ruled in a totalitarian and sexist manner.
Why are these issues not dealt with adequately in the article? Why protect an article that serves only to desperately rehabilitate the reputation of a disgraced academic who is months away from losing his position. JailWardChurchillNow 17:15, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The problem here is outrageous personal attacks and hyperbolice opinions being inserted into the article in huge blocks. Lets' take it a paragraph at a time and do not mess with the lead until consensus is reached on the body of the text.-- Cberlet 20:31, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
As Curps has had to protect that page again, feel free to use Ward Churchill/Temp as a sandbox for changes. Don't take any notice of vandalism attempts, don't bother to revert them, just choose an unvandalized version from the history and edit your proposed changes into it. Consensual changes can then be inserted into the protected article by an administrator. Sorry to have to do it this way, but it seems like the only way to deal with the opinionated loonies. -- Tony Sidaway| Talk 20:52, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Use of sockpuppet accounts to carry on an edit war (reverts) is against Wikipedia policy (see for instance Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Iasson).
Articles in Wikipedia have to read like encyclopedia articles. They should not read like blog entries or impassioned essays.
See also Wikipedia:Neutral point of view
-- Curps 21:20, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Yes exactly right. The only reason Churchill is notable is his offensive commentary about 9/11, to exclude a full description or quotation of the these comments is most unencyclopedic. This article is the captive of those who love or hate Churchill.
If he is being investigated (I believe he was being but don't know what has happened subsequently) for academic integrity issues that should be noted but so should academic freedom principles which go to the heart of tenure.
If he's a plagiarist, he will be sacked, there is no need to try him on Wikipedia. If he's just guilty of speaking his mind (however disgusting his views) as long as he's not being racist then it's vital his position be defended. You may as well shut down universities if professors cannot speak out, even in the most provocative manner.
I agree his salary should be disclosed because it is not unusually high for a senior academician but he should not be beaten over the head for it nor for making a living.
Reading through the article I get the impression that it is cobbled together with an introduction that is probably not sufficiently detailed about Churchill's controversies. There is plenty of detail of it in the rest of the article so the main question is how to provide a meaningful introduction without tabloid sensationalist claims about an imagined $2 million fraud. To my mind he's controversial enough without inventing cr*p. Academicintegrity 21:44, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think we need to clearly differentiate between the controversy over Churchill's 9/11 essays (which is what started the controversy in the first place), and the subsequent follow on attempts at discrediting him (such as can't prove native american decent, and charges of plagiarism). zen master T 21:49, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In the spirit of compromise between two versions, I have re-incorporated a couple of paragraphs from the "other" version that seem to be written in an NPOV manner and cite references (reporting comments by Colorado governor, relevant detail from paper by Brown). In a revert-on-sight edit war, sometimes even contributions like this get reverted away in the crossfire (another reason why us-against-the-world edit wars are counterproductive).
Also the introductory paragraph needed a little more detail: the intense media scrutiny over the essay was only the start of the affair. The role of conservative bloggers, commentators and state lawmakers in fanning the controversy should be mentioned, but also the basic details of the controversy itself, which quickly moved beyond the essay itself. -- Curps 21:53, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The intro should succinctly summarize what the 9/11 controversy was over and mention that it is the primary controversy. "cause celebre'" doesn't tell the reader anything. Intro should mention free speech in addition to "academic freedom". The last sentence in the intro is redundant (the article already states at the very top his claim of native american heritage is disputed). zen master T 22:02, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hey calm down. What fraud are we talking about? The accusations of academic fraud which include claims he lied on his job application (of fifteen years ago! that's how desperate his critics are) and plagiarism. As anyone who has worked in an educational instituion is aware, these are serious matters which are dealt with properly and not conducted in witch-hunt style. I have made some compromise proposals for the introduction. The rest of the article seems to have been written by committee and needs a rewrite too.
I understand your sensitivity about the issue after I read your user page and I respect your view but the article is not and cannot be a forum for Churchill bashing. I personally find his remarks about the victims of 9/11 disgusting as I have said. One of my oldest friends went missing that day and has never been found. He was a janitor, so hardly a contributor to US imperialism. So that's my view, and it doesn't prevent me from seeing bigger issues like academic freedom and integrity. Without them we have no universities, no learning and no society. Academicintegrity 22:19, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I note there are changes going on on a protected page. I think there are a problems with what is being written there, mainly stylistic problems. Are we going to review the Temp page or the protected one? I believe a one paragraph introduction is enough. Academicintegrity 22:29, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I really don't wish to offend at all. If he lied in his job application about his heritage then he will have a problem, I am the first to concede that. Same applies with plagiarism etc. The point is that we need to be careful not to attack someone's heritage or claims to it without very carefully considering the evidence. I believe your view is important and the dispute over his heritage should be recorded - prominently - in the article. My concern is that all of this is being dredged up to remove him for expressing an unpopular view. I find his view disgusting but I defend to the death his right to say it. What would be the point of having education if professors had to ensure everything they said or wrote or thought was popular with Bill Owens. It would have a chilling effect on education that would undermine everything we cherish about learning. Sure, some things are out of bounds like racism but expressing an unpopular political view should always be protected, academic freedom doesn't need to protect popular views or popular people, it is there to protect minorities, provocative people. That's the point. If he's the fake charade fraud that you say (and I really have no way of knowing) then presumably he will be exposed by the UC inquiry. And if he isn't then can we calm down and leave him go back to teaching??? Academicintegrity 23:07, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've benchmarked Viajero's edit of 14:20, 16 Apr 2005 in the article sandbox for a possible update of the main article. I am deliberately avoiding examining the content, because I just want to facilitate rather than influence editing.
You can look at differences between the sandbox version and the current protected version by looking at this diff link.
What is the general feeling about that version? Would there be serious objections if I updated the main article from that version? I'd like to do that if the general feeling is that it's an improvement on the current, protected, version. The idea is that I'd update today now that everybody has had a chance to work on improving it in the sandbox version. I'll do the same the next day and so on until the article is unprotected. -- Tony Sidaway| Talk 16:17, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
PS I urge those who haven't to read the Weekly Standard (yes, that Weekly Standard) article about Ward Churchill. It's not favorable to him, as we might have expected but it's worth a read because it shows:
All in all it's a very interesting exchange the conservative and Churchill have, I recommend it to those interested. Ward Churchill v Weekly Standard
TonyMarvin 04:57, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[ American Indian Movement Grand Governing Council Statement on Ward Churchill]
I think it is worth reproducing this in full here so we can reflect on the amazingly strong denunciation of Churchill by the people he claims affiliation with. I find the strength of the language particularly puzzling (he is accused of rip-off, fraud, being hateful, outrageous, etc. etc.) Can someone explain the status of the American Indian Movement? Is it the central movement for American Indians or a conservative group? If it is a group with some status then I believe it is imperative the article reflect this. I apologize for assuming Keetoowah was just agenda-pushing about the Indian fraud claims, there does seem to genuine angst about Churchill's claims to Indian heritage within their community and it would be misleading and paternalistic not to acknowledge that prominently. This is indeed a complex issue and the article should reflect that. TonyMarvin 05:33, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
AMERICAN INDIAN MOVEMENT GRAND GOVERNING COUNCIL
MINISTRY FOR INFORMATION P.O. Box 13521 Minneapolis MN 55414 612/ 721-3914 . fax 612/ 721-7826 Email: aimggc@worldnet.att.net Web Address: www.aimovement.org
Ward Churchill was scheduled to speak at Hamilton College in Clinton, New York on February 3, 2005. His appearance was canceled by the college after he caused a public furor over his loathsome remarks about the 9-11 tragedy in New York. AIM's Grand Governing Council has been dealing with Churchill's hateful attitude and rip-off of Indian people for years.
The American Indian Movement Grand Governing Council representing the National and International leadership of the American Indian Movement once again is vehemently and emphatically repudiating and condemning the outrageous statements made by academic literary and Indian fraud, Ward Churchill in relationship to the 9-11 tragedy in New York City that claimed thousands of innocent people’s lives.
Churchill’s statement that these people deserved what happened to them, and calling them little Eichmanns, comparing them to Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann, who implemented Adolf Hitler’s plan to exterminate European Jews and others, should be condemned by all.
The sorry part of this is Ward Churchill has fraudulently represented himself as an Indian, and a member of the American Indian Movement, a situation that has lifted him into the position of a lecturer on Indian activism. He has used the American Indian Movement’s chapter in Denver to attack the leadership of the official American Indian Movement with his misinformation and propaganda campaigns.
Ward Churchill has been masquerading as an Indian for years behind his dark glasses and beaded headband. He waves around an honorary membership card that at one time was issued to anyone by the Keetoowah Tribe of Oklahoma. Former President Bill Clinton and many others received these cards, but these cards do not qualify the holder a member of any tribe. He has deceitfully and treacherously fooled innocent and naïve Indian community members in Denver, Colorado, as well as many other people worldwide. Churchill does not represent, nor does he speak on behalf of the American Indian Movement.
New York’s Hamilton College Kirklands Project should be aware that in their search for truth and justice, the idea that they have hired a fraud to speak on Indian activism is in itself a betrayal of their goals.
Dennis J. Banks, Ojibwa Nation Chairman of the Board American Indian Movement Phone: 218-654-5885
Nee Gon Nway Wee Dung, aka, Clyde H. Bellecourt, Ojibwa Nation National Executive Director American Indian Movement Cell: 612-251-5836 Office: 612-724-3129
Press Contact: WaBun-Inini, aka, Vernon Bellecourt, Ojibwa Nation Executive Committee Member Director Council on Foreign Relations American Indian Movement Office: 612-721-3914 Cell: 612-889-0796
See the following:
Us vs AIM
Us vs AIM Backgound
Indian Country Today: Editors' Report
Keetoowah Tribe Response
The Public's Response
Churchill Cartoon
For more information regarding Churchill’s fraudulent enrollment:
United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians of Oklahoma Enrollment officer: 918-431-0385 or 918-456-8698
Tony, as a contrasting point of view to the one above, here is how the Indian activist Russel Means introduced Ward Churchill when the latter gave a speech February 8, 2005, at the University of Colorado. (I'd recommend reading it in its entirety if you have a chance: [9] -- Viajero 11:32, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
TonyMarvin 09:00, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I have a feeling there is a conservative v liberal spat over this article, which has not been at all helpful in getting it settled. I believe neither view on its own makes for a very good article. I am I admit quite liberal most of the time (although I don't think my country is evil as Ward seems to, indeed the whole problem with the Bush Administration is that wants to defend the country at the expense sometimes of removing the rights that make us worth protecting) and I value academic freedom as a cornerstone of education (and liberty itself). But that doesn't mean I think we should remove everything controversial about Ward out of the first paragraph as Zenmaster/Viajero seems to be advocating nor that it read like an indictment as Hausaud and others have proposed. I have tried to include everything relevant from the two versions with counterpoints so there's a pro/con thing going on. I think this is the most informative and fair way of dealing with it. Perhaps then we can look at the rest of the article if my format is deemed acceptable. TonyMarvin 09:00, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The temp version still needs a lot of work. "He grew up in a white family..." implies he's definitely 100% white. I don't think the current version mentions the "little Eichemans" statement at all. The resolution passed by colorado state legislature is way over the top, the article keeps repeating the same mantra over and over again, focusing on churchill "attacking" the innocent victims of the 9/11 attacks rather than focusing on what he was saying, namely there are reasons people are attacking us because of our imperialistic policies around the world. zen master T 18:05, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Has everyone given up on the /Temp version? (I think it still needs massive POV clean up work). Should people just start editing from the non temp version? zen master T 02:07, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)