![]() | War elephant is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 8, 2004. | |||||||||||||||
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Current status: Former featured article |
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It should perhaps be noted that there is no empirical proof that the elephant can move at a greater speed than 22 km/h, which nicely fits its biomechanically predicted top speed. But then, who knows what happens in the heat of battle? ;o)
MWAK-- 217.122.44.226 06:13, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have been told that African elephants cannot be tamed. In this it was exclusively the North African Forest elephant that was used by the Egyptians and Carthaginians. Could someone who knows zoology add a comment?
Is this picture
actually a war elephant? I made some comments on its image page.
Securiger 01:04, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
This page disagrees with Battle of Gaugamela to which it links. It states that the number of elephants in the battle was fifteen, while the linked page has the number as fifty. Howard C. Shaw III-- 68.213.34.248 19:05, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I was sorry to see that the link to War pigeon was removed, as it was inspired by War elephant. But all's fare in wiki-love and war-fauna. -- Zigger 18:13, 2004 Aug 19 (UTC)
Is it appropriate to mention the usage of war elephants in certain video games, such as Civilization (computer game)? -- NeuronExMachina 03:46, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The coment about the chess rook being based off a tower on an elephant, contradicts the rook page and there was a discussion about it in talk. say1988 22:27, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)
It is my understanding that the Egyptians at Raphia had smaller elephants than the Asian ones used by Antiochus. I also believe that Hannibal's personal elephant was Asian (named the Syrian). Thus it appears that the Egyptians and Carthaginian elephants were smaller than the Asian ones. In which case, they could not have been using the African Savannah elephant, which is larger. I would like someone who knows better to clarify this.
Are we going to use Osprey Books as cited sources? They're intended for a wargamer audience, not scholarship, and so are inconsistant in quality. I don't know of any comparisons by the ancients between the elephants of North African and West Asian powers other than the afformentioned one about the Ptolemeic and Selucid elephants confronting each other in battle. I'd prefer to hear -where- the Osprey title you referred to obtained 'proof' of Punic use of Savanna elephants--is it a statue or a record by a roman historian? The existence of cross-sahara trade doesn't seem convincing to me. On a related note, the claim that Carthaginian war elephants in the Punic wars were heavily armoured and carried 3-man howdahs is one that I'm not familiar with, and would preferably like another source for than a limited-print journal. Wilhelm Ritter 06:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I thought Timur was the heir of a Mongol. Did he use Turks in his armies?
Zoological books say that war elephants were easily startled, so probably were mostly significant as ceremonial or psychological weapon.
I've heard of elephants being used for logistics purposes by Angolan insurgents during the 70's. I think the U.S. Special Forces are trained to use them, along with other pack animals. Does anyone have a source for this? 66.133.180.21 05:13, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please write about elephants ion the medieval period, early modern and modern periods.
The medieval period was just as glorious with elephants.....just not in europe/africa.
And more is needed on asia. 60.228.53.39 06:41, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes its true. I read it the book "The Dictionary of Ancient and Medieval Warfare". I forgot the author and publisher, but if someone wants to add this to the article, I can easily do so for the contributer.It is Indian and medieval.
This is just one interesting tidbit of later elephant warfare, which is why we mustn't ignore such later history. Im suprised this article was featured. 60.228.53.39 06:41, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Have been disappointed by some of the images of claimed "war elephants"...some of these are actually mounts for commanders. This image is better [1] and the description of its use as opposed to ordinary mounts is given here Elephant in battle
This part isn't ven mentioned in the tactical use section of the article!
I am going to add a few lines explaining how Wae Elephants were used to carry archers closer to enemy lines and since they're at a height, they can fire their arrows with a lot more accuracy and power at the enemy horses and infantry. The Khmer along with several Indian kingdoms used to mount giant crossbows (similar to Roman Ballistas) on the Elephants to help fight other Elephants and Chariots. Darkness1089
So, the elephant page says only males were war elephants but the war elephant page say either one. Anyone *know* which it is? (Also posted to elephant talk.) Nklatt 15:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
According to page xi of John Kistler's book War Elephants (Westport, CT: Praeger, 2006), it's only males. I'll change the war elephant page. CarolinianJeff 11:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
According to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant#Domestication_and_use
females where never used for war because they would run away. -Daniel T —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.98.235 ( talk) 02:18, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
Okay. One of the reasons it fell out of featured article status was listy sections. Here is one such list.
I think it is good idea to just remove the section, since it is possibly one of the reasons the article lost FA status.
--
Orbit
One
Talk|
Babel
21:38, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I was actually surprised that section wasn't there. In any article where that is possible i see something like that.-- Andy mci 17:34, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
In Medieval 2: Total War, the Timiruds have an elephant unit with cannons on their backs
Can anyone confirm the realism of this? Or is this fake? I hate to be horrible about this but hahahahahhaa, is the only way I can think to respond. 170.65.188.1 04:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
TehNomad 21:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
The article for cannon elephants states in no uncertain terms that elephants with cannons mounted on their backs did not exist; this article states that they did. I have a feeling that this article is the correct one, but thought I'd point it out so someone more knowledgeable than I can fix it. Cheers -- DarthBinky 04:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
While an elephant might be able to actually hold a light cannon on it's back, I don't think it's going to be able to handle the recoil, much less remain calm when a cannon is fired off it's back. I'm afraid I don't have a source for this, but I think common sense says no mention of cannon elephants. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.40.46 ( talk) 19:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
The Indians actually did use War Elephants with small breech-loading culverins mounted on their backs. The cannon was strictly used for short-range anti-personnel work since it was loaded only with grapeshot and fired with a small charge that wasn't loud enough to scare the elephant but sufficient enough to propel the shot. -- Arima ( talk) 08:18, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
The Forest elephant page says that 'war elephant' is a species. This article is about the.. unit... or profession. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.72.21.221 ( talk) 02:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC).
Is Pyrrhic victory really the correct discription of the battle of Hydaspes? I think not "A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with devastating cost to the victor" Alexander lost as most ten percent of his army mostly infantry now I'm not saying thats not steep loses but thats no crippling, lets look at the citation used:
"But this last combat with Porus took off the edge of the Macedonians' courage, and stayed their further progress into India. For having found it hard enough to defeat an enemy who brought but twenty thousand foot and two thousand horse into the field, they thought they had reason to oppose Alexander's design of leading them on to pass the Ganges, too, which they were told was thirty-two furlongs broad and a fathom deep, and the banks on the further side covered with multitudes of enemies."
Note it refers to the subsequent mutiny not actually the battle, though in fairness it directly relates the mutiny to the battle, what must however be remembered is the Macedonian mutinied multiple times during Alexanders campaign they had left home ten years ago they had fought god knows how many battles in total, they had defeated Persia the whole point of leaving Macedonia they were now running around the middle of no where getting trappled on by elephants, they were annoyed.
Even if we claim that Alexander was stop solely by this battle it's not exactly a devastating lose to the victor they had won the campaign against Porus they just turned around and went home afterwards with their army mostly intact (well at least until Gedrosia) how does that constitute devasating. Even if we look at it solely from Alexander's view point he wasn't exactly crushed by it if you look at other events he had way further to go on the despair scale.
Then the article goes on to say it was the elephants that were responsible for halting Alexander citing same bit of Plutarch note "twenty thousand foot and two thousand horse", its debatable but I don't really have a problem with it though, elephants trappling people is after all what the battles famous for, over simplified but not exactly wrong.
Hence I kept that section and conservatively clipped off the prior Pyrrhic victory as it isn't one.....
I've done a bit of general tidying up work, especially on the paragraph structures in various places - see what you think. Full details as follows.
I've tightened up the intro very slightly, and moved a couple of clauses into the main article.
On the history sections, I've done some extensive work on the paragraph structure, which had become very loose in places over time (but tried to keep the underlying sentence structures and content intact whereever possible), and tried to tidy up the odd word or two. I've broken down Antiquity into three sections, given its length, and chased down some additional references. I've added a little bit on the Siamese and Vietnamese use of elephants in the modern period (late 19th century). I've taken out the (admittedly rather nice) "war elephants as a metaphor for political forces" picture, as it didn't seem to link in, and was also a picture of an elephant-mounted hunt, rather than a war elephant per se.
On the tactics section, a little tidying around the edges, and some work on paragraph structure and references towards the end.
I've combined the 'gaming pieces' and 'surviving relics' into a single 'cultural legacy bit', and added a little on architectural legacies as well, aiming to lose the list style in the process. See what you think.
I've then added a full references section at the end.
I hope that I've avoided any pit falls on the issues raised in the discussions above, -- Hchc2009 ( talk) 16:36, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Elephants were used to move some artillery around. Should this be mentioned?© Geni 00:18, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Marked this as dubious, both because I believe this is a myth, and because the entry goes on to mention armour protection.— Pawyilee ( talk) 08:11, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Other than the pictures, there needs to be a mention of the Mughal's use of elephants. Ugog Nizdast ( talk) 05:15, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
"The Han Dynasty of the 2nd century BC fought against Nanyue and Yue kingdoms of South East Asia (ancient proto Sino-Vietnamese) that did employ war elephants. Common tactics used to repel these elephants included massed crossbow or artillery fire." Artillery in the 2nd century BC? PiCo ( talk) 00:42, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
Pre-gunpowder types of artillery include siege engines. Dimadick ( talk) 22:46, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
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According to Second_French_intervention_in_Mexico#Egyptian_Auxiliary_Corps_January_1863, 13 Canon Elephants were used in Mexico. -- Error ( talk) 02:50, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:09, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 10:37, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Current:
This repeats four times "In xxx, the bishop is called elephant"... How about:
The final link points to a list with "elephant" for 20 languages, if I count right. — MFH: Talk 03:15, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
List of mechanical contraptions related to the "War elephant" has yet to be collected.
12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)~\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC) 43.242.178.254 ( talk) 12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
![]() | War elephant is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 8, 2004. | |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured article |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It should perhaps be noted that there is no empirical proof that the elephant can move at a greater speed than 22 km/h, which nicely fits its biomechanically predicted top speed. But then, who knows what happens in the heat of battle? ;o)
MWAK-- 217.122.44.226 06:13, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have been told that African elephants cannot be tamed. In this it was exclusively the North African Forest elephant that was used by the Egyptians and Carthaginians. Could someone who knows zoology add a comment?
Is this picture
actually a war elephant? I made some comments on its image page.
Securiger 01:04, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
This page disagrees with Battle of Gaugamela to which it links. It states that the number of elephants in the battle was fifteen, while the linked page has the number as fifty. Howard C. Shaw III-- 68.213.34.248 19:05, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I was sorry to see that the link to War pigeon was removed, as it was inspired by War elephant. But all's fare in wiki-love and war-fauna. -- Zigger 18:13, 2004 Aug 19 (UTC)
Is it appropriate to mention the usage of war elephants in certain video games, such as Civilization (computer game)? -- NeuronExMachina 03:46, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The coment about the chess rook being based off a tower on an elephant, contradicts the rook page and there was a discussion about it in talk. say1988 22:27, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)
It is my understanding that the Egyptians at Raphia had smaller elephants than the Asian ones used by Antiochus. I also believe that Hannibal's personal elephant was Asian (named the Syrian). Thus it appears that the Egyptians and Carthaginian elephants were smaller than the Asian ones. In which case, they could not have been using the African Savannah elephant, which is larger. I would like someone who knows better to clarify this.
Are we going to use Osprey Books as cited sources? They're intended for a wargamer audience, not scholarship, and so are inconsistant in quality. I don't know of any comparisons by the ancients between the elephants of North African and West Asian powers other than the afformentioned one about the Ptolemeic and Selucid elephants confronting each other in battle. I'd prefer to hear -where- the Osprey title you referred to obtained 'proof' of Punic use of Savanna elephants--is it a statue or a record by a roman historian? The existence of cross-sahara trade doesn't seem convincing to me. On a related note, the claim that Carthaginian war elephants in the Punic wars were heavily armoured and carried 3-man howdahs is one that I'm not familiar with, and would preferably like another source for than a limited-print journal. Wilhelm Ritter 06:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I thought Timur was the heir of a Mongol. Did he use Turks in his armies?
Zoological books say that war elephants were easily startled, so probably were mostly significant as ceremonial or psychological weapon.
I've heard of elephants being used for logistics purposes by Angolan insurgents during the 70's. I think the U.S. Special Forces are trained to use them, along with other pack animals. Does anyone have a source for this? 66.133.180.21 05:13, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please write about elephants ion the medieval period, early modern and modern periods.
The medieval period was just as glorious with elephants.....just not in europe/africa.
And more is needed on asia. 60.228.53.39 06:41, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes its true. I read it the book "The Dictionary of Ancient and Medieval Warfare". I forgot the author and publisher, but if someone wants to add this to the article, I can easily do so for the contributer.It is Indian and medieval.
This is just one interesting tidbit of later elephant warfare, which is why we mustn't ignore such later history. Im suprised this article was featured. 60.228.53.39 06:41, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Have been disappointed by some of the images of claimed "war elephants"...some of these are actually mounts for commanders. This image is better [1] and the description of its use as opposed to ordinary mounts is given here Elephant in battle
This part isn't ven mentioned in the tactical use section of the article!
I am going to add a few lines explaining how Wae Elephants were used to carry archers closer to enemy lines and since they're at a height, they can fire their arrows with a lot more accuracy and power at the enemy horses and infantry. The Khmer along with several Indian kingdoms used to mount giant crossbows (similar to Roman Ballistas) on the Elephants to help fight other Elephants and Chariots. Darkness1089
So, the elephant page says only males were war elephants but the war elephant page say either one. Anyone *know* which it is? (Also posted to elephant talk.) Nklatt 15:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
According to page xi of John Kistler's book War Elephants (Westport, CT: Praeger, 2006), it's only males. I'll change the war elephant page. CarolinianJeff 11:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
According to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant#Domestication_and_use
females where never used for war because they would run away. -Daniel T —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.98.235 ( talk) 02:18, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
Okay. One of the reasons it fell out of featured article status was listy sections. Here is one such list.
I think it is good idea to just remove the section, since it is possibly one of the reasons the article lost FA status.
--
Orbit
One
Talk|
Babel
21:38, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I was actually surprised that section wasn't there. In any article where that is possible i see something like that.-- Andy mci 17:34, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
In Medieval 2: Total War, the Timiruds have an elephant unit with cannons on their backs
Can anyone confirm the realism of this? Or is this fake? I hate to be horrible about this but hahahahahhaa, is the only way I can think to respond. 170.65.188.1 04:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
TehNomad 21:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
The article for cannon elephants states in no uncertain terms that elephants with cannons mounted on their backs did not exist; this article states that they did. I have a feeling that this article is the correct one, but thought I'd point it out so someone more knowledgeable than I can fix it. Cheers -- DarthBinky 04:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
While an elephant might be able to actually hold a light cannon on it's back, I don't think it's going to be able to handle the recoil, much less remain calm when a cannon is fired off it's back. I'm afraid I don't have a source for this, but I think common sense says no mention of cannon elephants. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.40.46 ( talk) 19:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
The Indians actually did use War Elephants with small breech-loading culverins mounted on their backs. The cannon was strictly used for short-range anti-personnel work since it was loaded only with grapeshot and fired with a small charge that wasn't loud enough to scare the elephant but sufficient enough to propel the shot. -- Arima ( talk) 08:18, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
The Forest elephant page says that 'war elephant' is a species. This article is about the.. unit... or profession. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.72.21.221 ( talk) 02:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC).
Is Pyrrhic victory really the correct discription of the battle of Hydaspes? I think not "A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with devastating cost to the victor" Alexander lost as most ten percent of his army mostly infantry now I'm not saying thats not steep loses but thats no crippling, lets look at the citation used:
"But this last combat with Porus took off the edge of the Macedonians' courage, and stayed their further progress into India. For having found it hard enough to defeat an enemy who brought but twenty thousand foot and two thousand horse into the field, they thought they had reason to oppose Alexander's design of leading them on to pass the Ganges, too, which they were told was thirty-two furlongs broad and a fathom deep, and the banks on the further side covered with multitudes of enemies."
Note it refers to the subsequent mutiny not actually the battle, though in fairness it directly relates the mutiny to the battle, what must however be remembered is the Macedonian mutinied multiple times during Alexanders campaign they had left home ten years ago they had fought god knows how many battles in total, they had defeated Persia the whole point of leaving Macedonia they were now running around the middle of no where getting trappled on by elephants, they were annoyed.
Even if we claim that Alexander was stop solely by this battle it's not exactly a devastating lose to the victor they had won the campaign against Porus they just turned around and went home afterwards with their army mostly intact (well at least until Gedrosia) how does that constitute devasating. Even if we look at it solely from Alexander's view point he wasn't exactly crushed by it if you look at other events he had way further to go on the despair scale.
Then the article goes on to say it was the elephants that were responsible for halting Alexander citing same bit of Plutarch note "twenty thousand foot and two thousand horse", its debatable but I don't really have a problem with it though, elephants trappling people is after all what the battles famous for, over simplified but not exactly wrong.
Hence I kept that section and conservatively clipped off the prior Pyrrhic victory as it isn't one.....
I've done a bit of general tidying up work, especially on the paragraph structures in various places - see what you think. Full details as follows.
I've tightened up the intro very slightly, and moved a couple of clauses into the main article.
On the history sections, I've done some extensive work on the paragraph structure, which had become very loose in places over time (but tried to keep the underlying sentence structures and content intact whereever possible), and tried to tidy up the odd word or two. I've broken down Antiquity into three sections, given its length, and chased down some additional references. I've added a little bit on the Siamese and Vietnamese use of elephants in the modern period (late 19th century). I've taken out the (admittedly rather nice) "war elephants as a metaphor for political forces" picture, as it didn't seem to link in, and was also a picture of an elephant-mounted hunt, rather than a war elephant per se.
On the tactics section, a little tidying around the edges, and some work on paragraph structure and references towards the end.
I've combined the 'gaming pieces' and 'surviving relics' into a single 'cultural legacy bit', and added a little on architectural legacies as well, aiming to lose the list style in the process. See what you think.
I've then added a full references section at the end.
I hope that I've avoided any pit falls on the issues raised in the discussions above, -- Hchc2009 ( talk) 16:36, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Elephants were used to move some artillery around. Should this be mentioned?© Geni 00:18, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Marked this as dubious, both because I believe this is a myth, and because the entry goes on to mention armour protection.— Pawyilee ( talk) 08:11, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Other than the pictures, there needs to be a mention of the Mughal's use of elephants. Ugog Nizdast ( talk) 05:15, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
"The Han Dynasty of the 2nd century BC fought against Nanyue and Yue kingdoms of South East Asia (ancient proto Sino-Vietnamese) that did employ war elephants. Common tactics used to repel these elephants included massed crossbow or artillery fire." Artillery in the 2nd century BC? PiCo ( talk) 00:42, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
Pre-gunpowder types of artillery include siege engines. Dimadick ( talk) 22:46, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on War elephant. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:15, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
According to Second_French_intervention_in_Mexico#Egyptian_Auxiliary_Corps_January_1863, 13 Canon Elephants were used in Mexico. -- Error ( talk) 02:50, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:09, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 10:37, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Current:
This repeats four times "In xxx, the bishop is called elephant"... How about:
The final link points to a list with "elephant" for 20 languages, if I count right. — MFH: Talk 03:15, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
List of mechanical contraptions related to the "War elephant" has yet to be collected.
12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)~\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC) 43.242.178.254 ( talk) 12:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)