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The cited source is a Leaders editorial. I dont object to it saying an "Economist editorial" rather than "an editorial in the Economist" but it is an editorial and it should be presented as such. nableezy - 20:47, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Reactions to the UNHRC report have a section but the report doesnt. Why? Mr Unsigned Anon ( talk) 06:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
the Palestinian delegation to the United Nations Human Rights Council dropped its efforts to forward a report accusing Israel of possible war crimes to the Security Council, under pressure from the United States, diplomats said.
UN Watch questions credibility of Goldstone’s witnesses, demonstrated by police spokesman in the Gaza Strip Islam Shahwan.
The Palestinian Authority has come under heavy criticism for agreeing to defer the draft proposal at the UN Human Rights Council endorsing all recommendations of the UN Fact Finding Mission regarding Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip. Under the title "Justice Delayed is Justice Denied," several Palestinian human rights organizations issued a statement condemning the PA's action, accusing its leaders of succumbing to US pressure.
Retired major general Jim Molan: The Goldstone report is an opinion by one group of people putting forward their judgments, with limited access to the facts, and reflecting their own prejudices. The difference in tone and attitude in the report when discussing Israeli and Hamas actions is surprising. -- Sceptic from Ashdod ( talk) 05:40, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I suggest a new name: 'Israeli responce to accusation of warcrime' or 'Israel point of view regarding accusations in general'. No joke. This article need rework. Sorry Sceptic. I see you putting in lot of effort but israels responces is causing undue weight compared to encyclopedical content. Not sure what to start but restructuring and removing excessive Israeli responces is a must or article might get tags. Mr Unsigned Anon ( talk) 00:05, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I was little ti harsh in my comment. Its the Goldstonereport part I thinking about. And maby its more of a structure problem than the mass of responces from Israeli side. Two things I suggest. First: Structure of the first part, UN.
After that reactions from parts and other interests. Like most articles with a section named 'critic' on wharever subject article is about. As it is now history/reports/accusations is mixed with responces and contradicting reports. Article give a unstructured and 'not so easy to read' feeling. Accusation and responces make it jumpy and dramaturgic. Not so encyclopedical.
Second, The structure of the rest of the article. In detail about the alledged warcrimes:
The allegations from diferent sources against the belligerents should be inspired by this side International humanitarian law. By going from the diferent conventions, in a juridical view, if we can, we not only get a NPOV but a readable and hopfully educational value about human rights and less of accusation/response style.
We got time as it isnt a current event and we can make this article really good. Mr Unsigned Anon ( talk) 18:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
There is too much noise in this article consisting of reactions to the report. We cover that more than we do the actual report. This shouldn't be a collection of editorials of people praising or condemning the report. Yes there has been a lot of reaction but we need to put that reaction in the proper context and that does not mean we include any and every source that has something to say. Let's try to focus on the substance of the issues instead of the background noise. nableezy - 05:54, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
The report has been criticised so frequently as being biased and the result of a procedural malfeasance that omitting any reference to this, in fact treating its findings as undisputed or reliable, puts Wikipedia firmly in the Goldstone-Hamas camp. By all means report it, by all means cover the defense of it, but be even-handed and warn the reader that it is suspect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.243.251.147 ( talk) 05:40, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi, there has been some reverting going on recently, my view is that junk like "UN watch" doesn't need to be cited if we have Hillary Clinton saying the same thing. -- Dailycare ( talk) 14:07, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Not sure that the current material from B'Tselem's Jessica Montell in the Non-governmental organizations section faithfully captures her views on the report. Her blog piece in The Huffington Post might help. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jessica-montell/the-goldstone-report-on-g_b_306500.html Sean.hoyland - talk 09:56, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
..new article United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict although I'm not sure what revision Jalap used as a source as it has discrepancies with this article i.e. I noticed an update from a few days ago was missing. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:23, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
I removing this part as nonsence, the police spokepersons credability is attacked in the line above in a more substantial way even if I disagree its of importanse for Goldstone Reports finding on the subject. Mr Unsigned Anon ( talk) 13:22, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
The UN Human Rights Council Amnesty International Human Rights Watch are *cough* quite notable in the article. The letter on the other hand can stay into its own section Mr Unsigned Anon ( talk) 14:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
The End of Proportionality. -- Sceptic from Ashdod ( talk) 05:23, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Maybe I'm stupid (no replies required on that subject :-)) but what are the < ref >Id @ Pg #< /ref > all about. Are they broken references that should be removed? Bjmullan ( talk) 21:50, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Seriously asking - who's slanting the crap out of this article?
Meanwhile of course... 20 Hamas missiles found in a UN school in Gaza. http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.236.94 ( talk) 13:30, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
The paragraphs I entered under this lede have been repeatedly deleted, first being called original research and then being called advocacy, and finally for no stated reason, apparently just for being controversial.
The fact is that Falk's work is tainted by ingrained bias against Israel, a bias that is demonstrated in the references I include. The fact of his bias is also shared by such as the US State Department, also shown by reference.
His judgment is also tainted, as shown by reference, by belief in a wild and arguably anti-semitic conspiracy theory ("9/11 trutherism") and by blaming the victim (the US) for being bombed in the Boston Marathon bombings.
He was appointed by the U.N. essentially to be a judge. His biases and character are therefore HIGHLY relevant. Any judge trying a criminal or civil case with burdens such as these on his record would be forced to step aside.
Falk obviously cannot be forced, at this point, to step aside, but his work product can and must be accompanied by this information, as it bears directly on his work product.
This material is not OR. It is not advocacy, as it simply brings balance to the article. Lacking a citation to a WP rule I've broken, or some reason other than not liking these facts, I will be adding these statements back into the article. Brownwn ( talk) 13:32, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
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Currently this page is just International law and the Gaza War. But in light of renewed war, maybe this page should be changed to International law and the Gaza War (2008–2009) and have International law and the Gaza War redirect to that, instead of the other way around as is currently.
Having the year in the title will help keep incidents in the two wars separate. Other pages for the 2008 war specify the year: Gaza War (2008–2009), Timeline of the Gaza War (2008–2009), Casualties of the Gaza War (2008–2009) Em3rgent0rdr ( talk) 20:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
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The cited source is a Leaders editorial. I dont object to it saying an "Economist editorial" rather than "an editorial in the Economist" but it is an editorial and it should be presented as such. nableezy - 20:47, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Reactions to the UNHRC report have a section but the report doesnt. Why? Mr Unsigned Anon ( talk) 06:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
the Palestinian delegation to the United Nations Human Rights Council dropped its efforts to forward a report accusing Israel of possible war crimes to the Security Council, under pressure from the United States, diplomats said.
UN Watch questions credibility of Goldstone’s witnesses, demonstrated by police spokesman in the Gaza Strip Islam Shahwan.
The Palestinian Authority has come under heavy criticism for agreeing to defer the draft proposal at the UN Human Rights Council endorsing all recommendations of the UN Fact Finding Mission regarding Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip. Under the title "Justice Delayed is Justice Denied," several Palestinian human rights organizations issued a statement condemning the PA's action, accusing its leaders of succumbing to US pressure.
Retired major general Jim Molan: The Goldstone report is an opinion by one group of people putting forward their judgments, with limited access to the facts, and reflecting their own prejudices. The difference in tone and attitude in the report when discussing Israeli and Hamas actions is surprising. -- Sceptic from Ashdod ( talk) 05:40, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I suggest a new name: 'Israeli responce to accusation of warcrime' or 'Israel point of view regarding accusations in general'. No joke. This article need rework. Sorry Sceptic. I see you putting in lot of effort but israels responces is causing undue weight compared to encyclopedical content. Not sure what to start but restructuring and removing excessive Israeli responces is a must or article might get tags. Mr Unsigned Anon ( talk) 00:05, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I was little ti harsh in my comment. Its the Goldstonereport part I thinking about. And maby its more of a structure problem than the mass of responces from Israeli side. Two things I suggest. First: Structure of the first part, UN.
After that reactions from parts and other interests. Like most articles with a section named 'critic' on wharever subject article is about. As it is now history/reports/accusations is mixed with responces and contradicting reports. Article give a unstructured and 'not so easy to read' feeling. Accusation and responces make it jumpy and dramaturgic. Not so encyclopedical.
Second, The structure of the rest of the article. In detail about the alledged warcrimes:
The allegations from diferent sources against the belligerents should be inspired by this side International humanitarian law. By going from the diferent conventions, in a juridical view, if we can, we not only get a NPOV but a readable and hopfully educational value about human rights and less of accusation/response style.
We got time as it isnt a current event and we can make this article really good. Mr Unsigned Anon ( talk) 18:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
There is too much noise in this article consisting of reactions to the report. We cover that more than we do the actual report. This shouldn't be a collection of editorials of people praising or condemning the report. Yes there has been a lot of reaction but we need to put that reaction in the proper context and that does not mean we include any and every source that has something to say. Let's try to focus on the substance of the issues instead of the background noise. nableezy - 05:54, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
The report has been criticised so frequently as being biased and the result of a procedural malfeasance that omitting any reference to this, in fact treating its findings as undisputed or reliable, puts Wikipedia firmly in the Goldstone-Hamas camp. By all means report it, by all means cover the defense of it, but be even-handed and warn the reader that it is suspect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.243.251.147 ( talk) 05:40, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi, there has been some reverting going on recently, my view is that junk like "UN watch" doesn't need to be cited if we have Hillary Clinton saying the same thing. -- Dailycare ( talk) 14:07, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Not sure that the current material from B'Tselem's Jessica Montell in the Non-governmental organizations section faithfully captures her views on the report. Her blog piece in The Huffington Post might help. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jessica-montell/the-goldstone-report-on-g_b_306500.html Sean.hoyland - talk 09:56, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
..new article United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict although I'm not sure what revision Jalap used as a source as it has discrepancies with this article i.e. I noticed an update from a few days ago was missing. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:23, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
I removing this part as nonsence, the police spokepersons credability is attacked in the line above in a more substantial way even if I disagree its of importanse for Goldstone Reports finding on the subject. Mr Unsigned Anon ( talk) 13:22, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
The UN Human Rights Council Amnesty International Human Rights Watch are *cough* quite notable in the article. The letter on the other hand can stay into its own section Mr Unsigned Anon ( talk) 14:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
The End of Proportionality. -- Sceptic from Ashdod ( talk) 05:23, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Maybe I'm stupid (no replies required on that subject :-)) but what are the < ref >Id @ Pg #< /ref > all about. Are they broken references that should be removed? Bjmullan ( talk) 21:50, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Seriously asking - who's slanting the crap out of this article?
Meanwhile of course... 20 Hamas missiles found in a UN school in Gaza. http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.236.94 ( talk) 13:30, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
The paragraphs I entered under this lede have been repeatedly deleted, first being called original research and then being called advocacy, and finally for no stated reason, apparently just for being controversial.
The fact is that Falk's work is tainted by ingrained bias against Israel, a bias that is demonstrated in the references I include. The fact of his bias is also shared by such as the US State Department, also shown by reference.
His judgment is also tainted, as shown by reference, by belief in a wild and arguably anti-semitic conspiracy theory ("9/11 trutherism") and by blaming the victim (the US) for being bombed in the Boston Marathon bombings.
He was appointed by the U.N. essentially to be a judge. His biases and character are therefore HIGHLY relevant. Any judge trying a criminal or civil case with burdens such as these on his record would be forced to step aside.
Falk obviously cannot be forced, at this point, to step aside, but his work product can and must be accompanied by this information, as it bears directly on his work product.
This material is not OR. It is not advocacy, as it simply brings balance to the article. Lacking a citation to a WP rule I've broken, or some reason other than not liking these facts, I will be adding these statements back into the article. Brownwn ( talk) 13:32, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
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Currently this page is just International law and the Gaza War. But in light of renewed war, maybe this page should be changed to International law and the Gaza War (2008–2009) and have International law and the Gaza War redirect to that, instead of the other way around as is currently.
Having the year in the title will help keep incidents in the two wars separate. Other pages for the 2008 war specify the year: Gaza War (2008–2009), Timeline of the Gaza War (2008–2009), Casualties of the Gaza War (2008–2009) Em3rgent0rdr ( talk) 20:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC)