This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Wappinger is the proper name for the Native American Indian tribe formerly occupying the east bank of the Hudson River from northern Westchester to southern Duchess.
The errant term "Wappani" is a virally repeated Internet generated "urban myth"; there is no historical basis for it. It is, alas, someone's idea of the way an Indian tribe name should sound based on watching F-Troop (and its band of down on their luck Hekawis) as a kid, and took off from there.
Anyone who doubts this may do their own historical research: do not just revert the page. Check the facts as they can be known out for yourself first - noting that you'll have to weed through endless viral iterations of "Wappani" on the Internet; you will not, however, find them at legitimate pages documenting the history of Native American Indian tribes.
This is no joke. Do you think the town (river, etc.) in New York are the Town of Wappani, Wappani Falls, the Wappani River, and so on? All of which were named a century and two before the Internet arose. The tribe's name, an English corruption of the Natives' word in their tongue, is Wappinger. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 15:49, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Wappinger (on its own) is preferred, with an appropriate otheruses link to the disambiguation page. That is what (and all) I tried initially to do but Wikipedia coding would not let me. Hence the new (and suboptimally long) article name. It is agreed the English and Dutch garbled Native American names, but "Wappinger" is the version that came out of it, and stuck...and was employed to name towns, creeks, and other entities honoring the tribe's heritage. That alone is sufficient to cement the appropriate name for the Wikipedia article, as (indicated above) the town is not "Wappani", nor the creek, fault, or anything else. Honestly, "Wappani" is first an ephemera and second an Internet virus, not a consensus name for the tribe and references to it. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 16:44, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Not just done, well done. Cheers. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 17:29, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The term "Wappinger" was used in its full form as early as the 1650s, as contained in this compendium of transcriptions of original Dutch documents beginning in the 1630s: http://www.archive.org/stream/documentsrelativ13newyuoft/documentsrelativ13newyuoft_djvu.txt, with "Wapping" the most popular and "Wappingh" ranking next. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 20:42, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I came across an orphan, stub, Pompton people, and it appears "Pomptons" is simply a synonym for "Wappinger" as per Sturtevant, William C., gen. ed. Trigger, Bruce G., vol. ed. Handbook of North American Indians: Volume 15, Northeast, page 238. The Access Genealogy article cited doesn't even used the word "Pompton." - Uyvsdi ( talk) 19:39, 7 January 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
You couldn't merge the Pomptons and the Wappinger subjects because the Pomptons were a condensed Tribe. Yes there were Wappingers included but the name Pompton (Pumpton/Pamapon)includes local Tribes such as the Ramapough. Chief Catoonah who was the Sachem of the Ramapoos in Connecticut originated from the Ramapo/Pompton Tribe and was forced to move to Connecticut by the Dutch. There is a map of the Ramapoo Village from 1625. This tells us the Ramapo/Pompton Tribe in NJ existed before at least 1600. (before the Wappingers moved to the area). Ramapoughnative ( talk) 16:24, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
This is some of my references: about Catoonah originating from Ramapo/Pamapon. This is from the Bearce family history on file in the NY Public Library. http://catalog.nypl.org/iii/encore/search/C%7CSFranklyn+BeArce%7COrightresult%7CU1?lang=eng&suite=pearl
The map of Ramapo, Connecticut (Now Ridgefield) on a map dated 1625. Catoonah was the Sachem. http://www.historyofredding.com/HRearlysettlers.htm (scroll down to see map) All of this was before a band of Wappingers were forced out of Connecticut and invited to live in NJ by the Minsi around 1640. I say a band of Wappingers because the Wappingers were also a condensed Tribe, same as the Ramapo of Connecticut and the Ramapo/Pomptons of New Jersey. During the time of the Dutch, chaos ruled and they were shipping Natives out to be slaves in the Caribbeans. Native families were scattering to anywhere it was safe. Ramapoughnative ( talk) 21:26, 13 January 2011 (UTC) Also have this.. http://www.dickshovel.com/wap.html "After the war, some groups of Wappinger crossed over to northern New Jersey and settled among the Unami and Munsee where they became known as the Pompton." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramapoughnative ( talk • contribs) 01:14, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thanks! I will do..I do think linking the Pomptons to the Wappingers would be a good idea since they are related... your input? Ramapoughnative ( talk) 04:00, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
Why mention New England when talking about Native America? There was no "New England" when the natives had their land! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.104.4 ( talk) 21:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
The following content has been relocated here from a revision as of 13:48, July 28, 2014, which reverted edits by user 67.189.204.150, by User:Bentogoa. Reason: addition of unsourced content (HG)).
Source: Freemasonry and the American Revolution, Sidney Morse, 1924
3000? [comment inserted by OP following existing content where copy was originally posted]
in 1805 general Clinton and Sullivan destroyed 40 Indian towns with in a 40 mile trip, their crops, fruit trees and over 100,000 bushels of corn. This was between Elmira NY and Genesee Valley. This 3000 estimate is propaganda wrong, The Wappingers were a family of the Tawakoni tribe (Taconic or sometimes written Pachami) of the Lenape Indian tribe of the north east. The Wappinger held one mountain range, just as the Nochiapeem, and Woarani held the next. Each family held a town sized area, with in a larger family name that held a state sized area (towakani held southern New York, New Jersey and parts of Pennsylvania with in a larger tribal name that held a regional area(Lenape). The Wappani (wappingers) never held outside of the Fishkill area. They were simply forced outside that area as they joined with other tribal families to fight for survival as community efforts were always the focus not who owns which land. This is a European concept that avoids the Indian Culture. Further more the Dutch India(n) trading company relied on the tribes as their supply company. The East India trading company was in stark competition with the Dutch east and west India trading companies and this often gets confused when the land grab started. It is far too complex to blame these issues completely upon the Dutch. France England and Dutch played huge parts in the demise of the massive (hundreds of thousands) Indian population of southern Hudson valley who were laboring in mines and tending farm fields for centuries. The field stone walls of new England have a huge story to tell.
Other content from same source by same poster has been integrated in its own section at the main article page. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 20:50, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The following content was relocated here from the main page for lacking citation:
In one massacre of woman and children during war of 1812 in what is now Putnam County, New York, on Nimham mountain more than 3000 Nochpeem Indian lives were lost in this Indian town alone. citation needed They were buried in a long mound by Stephen Rensselaer III upon his return from defending the US from the French invaders. At this same time Isaac Brock of the English military marched 600 Indians before a French line 3 times (as targets), Stephen Rensselaer led his forces across Niagra, He defeated Brock who was pronounced deceased upon the battle field.
There are no known engagements of the War of 1812 in that area, and the few Wappinger remaining in the aftermath of the French and Indian Wars relocated to Stockbridge, Massachusetts, by the time of the American revolution and shortly after. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 21:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
A full account of the role of the Wappinger and death of their leader, Daniel Nimham, is found below:
Wikiuser100 ( talk) 21:18, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
New York City in Indian Possession, Reginald Pelham Bolton 1920
https://books.google.com/books?id=bphEAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA321&lpg=PA321&dq=tankiteke&source=bl&ots=64o8W0D7xk&sig=ACfU3U1nhbS1fqsWYjoZqjUW2coZ22yyEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjSpqvUgPbgAhWuiOAKHRikC_oQ6AEwCnoECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=carmel&f=false Wikiuser100 ( talk) 16:12, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
I note that about five years ago, someone added some truly remarkable material, thus I am remarking: (I did not wish to remove a large portion (note that I did not say significant) w/o at least giving a heads up.) This needs to be either deleted in it's entirety or seriously trimmed. Why is so much space allocated to musings from a book written 95 years ago by an "inventor, geographer and journalist"?
I not sure if all this this is from the original poster or Morse, or the OP's interpretation of Morse, but all this is woefully irrelevant, and needs to come out. If the point is that Morse had some closely held ideas that the Dutch spirited the Guarani up to work some non-existent foundries in Pawling one sentence should suffice. If any reputable scholar supports any such notion that should be so indicted. These ideas, if retained at all, are best moved in Morse's article. Manannan67 ( talk) 17:58, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
There seem to be contradictory accounts, but we should probably address the nature of the relationship with the Lenape people. Whether the Wappinger might be considered a Lenape subgroup, or having some social affiliation but not being a subgroup, or of being connected only by a shared language. I have also read some sources that put the Wappinger as a group socially midway between the Lenape and Mahican cultures. If there is any modern scholarship on this question, certainly that would be best.-- Pharos ( talk) 05:05, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Wappinger is the proper name for the Native American Indian tribe formerly occupying the east bank of the Hudson River from northern Westchester to southern Duchess.
The errant term "Wappani" is a virally repeated Internet generated "urban myth"; there is no historical basis for it. It is, alas, someone's idea of the way an Indian tribe name should sound based on watching F-Troop (and its band of down on their luck Hekawis) as a kid, and took off from there.
Anyone who doubts this may do their own historical research: do not just revert the page. Check the facts as they can be known out for yourself first - noting that you'll have to weed through endless viral iterations of "Wappani" on the Internet; you will not, however, find them at legitimate pages documenting the history of Native American Indian tribes.
This is no joke. Do you think the town (river, etc.) in New York are the Town of Wappani, Wappani Falls, the Wappani River, and so on? All of which were named a century and two before the Internet arose. The tribe's name, an English corruption of the Natives' word in their tongue, is Wappinger. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 15:49, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Wappinger (on its own) is preferred, with an appropriate otheruses link to the disambiguation page. That is what (and all) I tried initially to do but Wikipedia coding would not let me. Hence the new (and suboptimally long) article name. It is agreed the English and Dutch garbled Native American names, but "Wappinger" is the version that came out of it, and stuck...and was employed to name towns, creeks, and other entities honoring the tribe's heritage. That alone is sufficient to cement the appropriate name for the Wikipedia article, as (indicated above) the town is not "Wappani", nor the creek, fault, or anything else. Honestly, "Wappani" is first an ephemera and second an Internet virus, not a consensus name for the tribe and references to it. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 16:44, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Not just done, well done. Cheers. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 17:29, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The term "Wappinger" was used in its full form as early as the 1650s, as contained in this compendium of transcriptions of original Dutch documents beginning in the 1630s: http://www.archive.org/stream/documentsrelativ13newyuoft/documentsrelativ13newyuoft_djvu.txt, with "Wapping" the most popular and "Wappingh" ranking next. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 20:42, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I came across an orphan, stub, Pompton people, and it appears "Pomptons" is simply a synonym for "Wappinger" as per Sturtevant, William C., gen. ed. Trigger, Bruce G., vol. ed. Handbook of North American Indians: Volume 15, Northeast, page 238. The Access Genealogy article cited doesn't even used the word "Pompton." - Uyvsdi ( talk) 19:39, 7 January 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
You couldn't merge the Pomptons and the Wappinger subjects because the Pomptons were a condensed Tribe. Yes there were Wappingers included but the name Pompton (Pumpton/Pamapon)includes local Tribes such as the Ramapough. Chief Catoonah who was the Sachem of the Ramapoos in Connecticut originated from the Ramapo/Pompton Tribe and was forced to move to Connecticut by the Dutch. There is a map of the Ramapoo Village from 1625. This tells us the Ramapo/Pompton Tribe in NJ existed before at least 1600. (before the Wappingers moved to the area). Ramapoughnative ( talk) 16:24, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
This is some of my references: about Catoonah originating from Ramapo/Pamapon. This is from the Bearce family history on file in the NY Public Library. http://catalog.nypl.org/iii/encore/search/C%7CSFranklyn+BeArce%7COrightresult%7CU1?lang=eng&suite=pearl
The map of Ramapo, Connecticut (Now Ridgefield) on a map dated 1625. Catoonah was the Sachem. http://www.historyofredding.com/HRearlysettlers.htm (scroll down to see map) All of this was before a band of Wappingers were forced out of Connecticut and invited to live in NJ by the Minsi around 1640. I say a band of Wappingers because the Wappingers were also a condensed Tribe, same as the Ramapo of Connecticut and the Ramapo/Pomptons of New Jersey. During the time of the Dutch, chaos ruled and they were shipping Natives out to be slaves in the Caribbeans. Native families were scattering to anywhere it was safe. Ramapoughnative ( talk) 21:26, 13 January 2011 (UTC) Also have this.. http://www.dickshovel.com/wap.html "After the war, some groups of Wappinger crossed over to northern New Jersey and settled among the Unami and Munsee where they became known as the Pompton." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramapoughnative ( talk • contribs) 01:14, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thanks! I will do..I do think linking the Pomptons to the Wappingers would be a good idea since they are related... your input? Ramapoughnative ( talk) 04:00, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
Why mention New England when talking about Native America? There was no "New England" when the natives had their land! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.104.4 ( talk) 21:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
The following content has been relocated here from a revision as of 13:48, July 28, 2014, which reverted edits by user 67.189.204.150, by User:Bentogoa. Reason: addition of unsourced content (HG)).
Source: Freemasonry and the American Revolution, Sidney Morse, 1924
3000? [comment inserted by OP following existing content where copy was originally posted]
in 1805 general Clinton and Sullivan destroyed 40 Indian towns with in a 40 mile trip, their crops, fruit trees and over 100,000 bushels of corn. This was between Elmira NY and Genesee Valley. This 3000 estimate is propaganda wrong, The Wappingers were a family of the Tawakoni tribe (Taconic or sometimes written Pachami) of the Lenape Indian tribe of the north east. The Wappinger held one mountain range, just as the Nochiapeem, and Woarani held the next. Each family held a town sized area, with in a larger family name that held a state sized area (towakani held southern New York, New Jersey and parts of Pennsylvania with in a larger tribal name that held a regional area(Lenape). The Wappani (wappingers) never held outside of the Fishkill area. They were simply forced outside that area as they joined with other tribal families to fight for survival as community efforts were always the focus not who owns which land. This is a European concept that avoids the Indian Culture. Further more the Dutch India(n) trading company relied on the tribes as their supply company. The East India trading company was in stark competition with the Dutch east and west India trading companies and this often gets confused when the land grab started. It is far too complex to blame these issues completely upon the Dutch. France England and Dutch played huge parts in the demise of the massive (hundreds of thousands) Indian population of southern Hudson valley who were laboring in mines and tending farm fields for centuries. The field stone walls of new England have a huge story to tell.
Other content from same source by same poster has been integrated in its own section at the main article page. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 20:50, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The following content was relocated here from the main page for lacking citation:
In one massacre of woman and children during war of 1812 in what is now Putnam County, New York, on Nimham mountain more than 3000 Nochpeem Indian lives were lost in this Indian town alone. citation needed They were buried in a long mound by Stephen Rensselaer III upon his return from defending the US from the French invaders. At this same time Isaac Brock of the English military marched 600 Indians before a French line 3 times (as targets), Stephen Rensselaer led his forces across Niagra, He defeated Brock who was pronounced deceased upon the battle field.
There are no known engagements of the War of 1812 in that area, and the few Wappinger remaining in the aftermath of the French and Indian Wars relocated to Stockbridge, Massachusetts, by the time of the American revolution and shortly after. Wikiuser100 ( talk) 21:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
A full account of the role of the Wappinger and death of their leader, Daniel Nimham, is found below:
Wikiuser100 ( talk) 21:18, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
New York City in Indian Possession, Reginald Pelham Bolton 1920
https://books.google.com/books?id=bphEAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA321&lpg=PA321&dq=tankiteke&source=bl&ots=64o8W0D7xk&sig=ACfU3U1nhbS1fqsWYjoZqjUW2coZ22yyEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjSpqvUgPbgAhWuiOAKHRikC_oQ6AEwCnoECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=carmel&f=false Wikiuser100 ( talk) 16:12, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
I note that about five years ago, someone added some truly remarkable material, thus I am remarking: (I did not wish to remove a large portion (note that I did not say significant) w/o at least giving a heads up.) This needs to be either deleted in it's entirety or seriously trimmed. Why is so much space allocated to musings from a book written 95 years ago by an "inventor, geographer and journalist"?
I not sure if all this this is from the original poster or Morse, or the OP's interpretation of Morse, but all this is woefully irrelevant, and needs to come out. If the point is that Morse had some closely held ideas that the Dutch spirited the Guarani up to work some non-existent foundries in Pawling one sentence should suffice. If any reputable scholar supports any such notion that should be so indicted. These ideas, if retained at all, are best moved in Morse's article. Manannan67 ( talk) 17:58, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
There seem to be contradictory accounts, but we should probably address the nature of the relationship with the Lenape people. Whether the Wappinger might be considered a Lenape subgroup, or having some social affiliation but not being a subgroup, or of being connected only by a shared language. I have also read some sources that put the Wappinger as a group socially midway between the Lenape and Mahican cultures. If there is any modern scholarship on this question, certainly that would be best.-- Pharos ( talk) 05:05, 7 July 2021 (UTC)