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Removed the below. A Google search shows a single unauthoritative source that attributes it to Walther, and multiple sources that attribute it to an anonymous author. Google search. Replaceing this with a link to a collection of translated Walther poems. -- Stbalbach 17:24, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The following poem dates from around this period and has been attributed to Vogelweide
I reverted the page to what seemed to be the last serious edit, as the latest version seemd a bit malformed, suggesting vandalism. Serious edits can be reinserted by viewing the history, in case I am wildly mistaken (which has been known to happen; don't take it personally). - CobaltBlueTony 17:54, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
article has again been vandalized. reverted some of it. LLLTS ( talk) 05:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I think I've now sorted all without editing any good faith edits, by retoring the last version of last year. (Editing and saving that version.)-- Peter cohen ( talk) 11:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Please check the official website of the municipality of Lajen (in Italy) [1] (in German) or [2] (in Italian, sorry no English version available): there is some evidence that that might be Vogelweide's birthplace. I think it would at least deserve to be mentioned... -- Andylong 19:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I know "in popular culture" sections are reviled, but should it be mentioned that Walther was chosen as a character in Tannhäuser (opera) and the inspiration for another Wagnerian Walther in Mastersingers? (Anyone know if Walther was in Wagner's source for the song contest E. T. A. Hoffman's story The Singer's Contest?)-- Peter cohen 16:05, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
There's an awful lot wrong with this article:
This is an article that needs serious work. I will make a start and do what I can, but this is not something that can be done by a single editor.-- Pfold ( talk) 14:14, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
Pfold, you reverted an edit I made stating that the Palästinalied is the only one of Walther's songs for which a melody has survived; your objection was that "The Palästinalied *isn't* the only surviving melody." The article Palästinalied, however, directly states: "Palästinalied (Palestine Song) is a poem written in the early 13th century by Walther von der Vogelweide, the most celebrated German medieval lyric poet. The poem is written in Middle High German. It is the only song by Walter for which a melody has survived." Is this statement false? If so, which other songs by Walther has a melody survived for? -- Katolophyromai ( talk) 01:30, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
After hearing your response, I went and did some more research about Walther von der Vogelweide's songs. This source ( [5]), which was written only two years ago, contains a detailed discussion of the surviving melodies and the manner in which Walther's songs would have been originally performed. It says that the melodies of the "Ottenton" and the "Wiener Hofton" were preserved due to the melodies being reused by later Minnesang writers. It states that the melody for the Palästinalied has survived in full (which I already knew), but it also states that there are two more songs for which a partial melody has survived. Unfortunately, it does not clarify which two songs these are. Finally it states that there are six additional songs (including " Under der linden"!) with similar meters to certain surviving French melodies and which may have originally been sung to those melodies. This explains a lot. I have listened to numerous performances of "Under der linden," all of which used the same melody. I found this puzzling since I had read that the Palästinalied was the only song for which a melody had survived. Now I know that the melody I have been hearing is probably the French melody referred to in the article. -- Katolophyromai ( talk) 18:27, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
the article currently states "He was active in urging the German princes to take part in the crusade of 1228, and may have accompanied the crusading army at least as far as his native Tirol", apparently without a source. Alexander Sager's Crusade in the Bedroom, published in Zeitschrift Für Deutsches Altertum Und Deutsche Literatur vol. 147 no. 2, seems to make the opposite claim -- but I'm not totally familiar with the historical context he's describing here, nor can I read the old German he quotes, so I figured I'd just drop the relevant passage here so someone else can figure out whether wiki's just wrong, Sager's just wrong, or the current article and Sager are talking about subtly different things.
"""
The effects of Innocent’s crusade measures caused an especial stir in literate courtly German circles in that year, with a highly propagandistic outcome. As is well known, several of Walther von der Vogelweide’s political poems (ʻSpruchlieder’) were targeted at another directive announced in ʻQuia maior’, the setting up of a “concave trunk” (truncus concavus; Walther termed this a stoc) in churches throughout Germany to collect donations from the laity in order to finance the crusade. Walther saw this measure as part of a cynical campaign to drain money from Germany and weaken the German emperor politically. His poetic intervention had a wide resonance and possibly even a significant real-world impact. Thomasin von Zerklaere, in his bitter critique of the minnesinger, accuses him of damaging the crusade recruitment effort:
ich waen daz alles sîn gesanc,
beide kurz unde lanc,
sî got niht sô wol gevallen,
sô im daz ein muoz missevallen,
wan er hât tûsent man betoeret,
daz si habent überhoeret
gotes und des bâbstes gebôt
""" — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
49.178.5.141 (
talk)
16:42, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Removed the below. A Google search shows a single unauthoritative source that attributes it to Walther, and multiple sources that attribute it to an anonymous author. Google search. Replaceing this with a link to a collection of translated Walther poems. -- Stbalbach 17:24, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The following poem dates from around this period and has been attributed to Vogelweide
I reverted the page to what seemed to be the last serious edit, as the latest version seemd a bit malformed, suggesting vandalism. Serious edits can be reinserted by viewing the history, in case I am wildly mistaken (which has been known to happen; don't take it personally). - CobaltBlueTony 17:54, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
article has again been vandalized. reverted some of it. LLLTS ( talk) 05:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I think I've now sorted all without editing any good faith edits, by retoring the last version of last year. (Editing and saving that version.)-- Peter cohen ( talk) 11:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Please check the official website of the municipality of Lajen (in Italy) [1] (in German) or [2] (in Italian, sorry no English version available): there is some evidence that that might be Vogelweide's birthplace. I think it would at least deserve to be mentioned... -- Andylong 19:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I know "in popular culture" sections are reviled, but should it be mentioned that Walther was chosen as a character in Tannhäuser (opera) and the inspiration for another Wagnerian Walther in Mastersingers? (Anyone know if Walther was in Wagner's source for the song contest E. T. A. Hoffman's story The Singer's Contest?)-- Peter cohen 16:05, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
There's an awful lot wrong with this article:
This is an article that needs serious work. I will make a start and do what I can, but this is not something that can be done by a single editor.-- Pfold ( talk) 14:14, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
Pfold, you reverted an edit I made stating that the Palästinalied is the only one of Walther's songs for which a melody has survived; your objection was that "The Palästinalied *isn't* the only surviving melody." The article Palästinalied, however, directly states: "Palästinalied (Palestine Song) is a poem written in the early 13th century by Walther von der Vogelweide, the most celebrated German medieval lyric poet. The poem is written in Middle High German. It is the only song by Walter for which a melody has survived." Is this statement false? If so, which other songs by Walther has a melody survived for? -- Katolophyromai ( talk) 01:30, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
After hearing your response, I went and did some more research about Walther von der Vogelweide's songs. This source ( [5]), which was written only two years ago, contains a detailed discussion of the surviving melodies and the manner in which Walther's songs would have been originally performed. It says that the melodies of the "Ottenton" and the "Wiener Hofton" were preserved due to the melodies being reused by later Minnesang writers. It states that the melody for the Palästinalied has survived in full (which I already knew), but it also states that there are two more songs for which a partial melody has survived. Unfortunately, it does not clarify which two songs these are. Finally it states that there are six additional songs (including " Under der linden"!) with similar meters to certain surviving French melodies and which may have originally been sung to those melodies. This explains a lot. I have listened to numerous performances of "Under der linden," all of which used the same melody. I found this puzzling since I had read that the Palästinalied was the only song for which a melody had survived. Now I know that the melody I have been hearing is probably the French melody referred to in the article. -- Katolophyromai ( talk) 18:27, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
the article currently states "He was active in urging the German princes to take part in the crusade of 1228, and may have accompanied the crusading army at least as far as his native Tirol", apparently without a source. Alexander Sager's Crusade in the Bedroom, published in Zeitschrift Für Deutsches Altertum Und Deutsche Literatur vol. 147 no. 2, seems to make the opposite claim -- but I'm not totally familiar with the historical context he's describing here, nor can I read the old German he quotes, so I figured I'd just drop the relevant passage here so someone else can figure out whether wiki's just wrong, Sager's just wrong, or the current article and Sager are talking about subtly different things.
"""
The effects of Innocent’s crusade measures caused an especial stir in literate courtly German circles in that year, with a highly propagandistic outcome. As is well known, several of Walther von der Vogelweide’s political poems (ʻSpruchlieder’) were targeted at another directive announced in ʻQuia maior’, the setting up of a “concave trunk” (truncus concavus; Walther termed this a stoc) in churches throughout Germany to collect donations from the laity in order to finance the crusade. Walther saw this measure as part of a cynical campaign to drain money from Germany and weaken the German emperor politically. His poetic intervention had a wide resonance and possibly even a significant real-world impact. Thomasin von Zerklaere, in his bitter critique of the minnesinger, accuses him of damaging the crusade recruitment effort:
ich waen daz alles sîn gesanc,
beide kurz unde lanc,
sî got niht sô wol gevallen,
sô im daz ein muoz missevallen,
wan er hât tûsent man betoeret,
daz si habent überhoeret
gotes und des bâbstes gebôt
""" — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
49.178.5.141 (
talk)
16:42, 20 June 2021 (UTC)