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Did this wikipedia entry plagiarize, nearly verbatim, the material that can be found here: http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg13-e.htm
or did that page plagiarize Wikipedia?
The Walther P38 article states that Hitler used a P38 to commit suicide, whereas this article claims he used a PPK. We should probably find a source to back up either claim, and stick with it. - Ben of Oz
History channel just claimed the PPK. Hitler apperently had 2 PPKs by his side at all times, one a smaller calliber and the other which he killed himself with. Name of the documentary is as follows. Tales of the Gun German Small Arms of WW II ~-- Alt 15:59, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I've heard PPK to mean Polizeipistole Kurz ( World Guns says Kurz), which would make more sense to me. Reference on Kriminalmodell? [unsigned]
Doesn't "Polizeipistole Kriminalmodell" really mean "police pistole, criminal model"? It would be rather strange to imply that the police, or the pistols they wield, are criminals. Shouldn't that be more like "Kriminalpolizeimodell"? JIP | Talk 11:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: |pages=
has extra text (
help) that "The PPK was intended as a concealment gun for detectives, hence its name, Polizei-Pistole Kriminal, for in Germany the Detective Division, or Kriminalamt, takes its name from the hunted rather than the hunter." So that corroborates the "Kriminal" spell-out. However, the "kurz" spell-out is believable because the gun is shorter in overall height and length and better for concealment. I would bet that the "kurz" spell-out began as
folk etymology because of its logically reasonable ring.
Lumbercutter 01:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Asams10, perhaps the dispute between Kriminal and Kriminalmodell can be resolved the same way as Kurz and Kriminal. I've seen all three before, and Walther's website doesn't provide any illumination on which is correct. So we might as well have all three mentioned.
If no one disagrees I'll go ahead and put that in the article.--
LWF 00:26, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
You can download the Walther press release on the Walther PPS page if you need to verify this. Does this qualify enough to change the reference to "Kurz", or at least remove the section that states that it is incorrect?...the WALTHER PPS is a worthy successor to the legendary PPK - the Police Pistol Short.
Actually, that isn't necessarily referring to the PPK when it says Police Pistol Short, I think it is actually referring to the PPS right there, as in the successor is the Police Pistol Short.-- LWF 13:14, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Just to add more confusion to the mix, in the current (2011) Walther naming constellation, "K" (as in the PK380) refers to "Kompakt". Polizei Pistol Kompakt would make a lot of sense, particularly when their German web site shows the PP and the PPK together and refers to the PPK as the compact version of the PP. Also, their German website offers a choice of languages, and the German-language version refers to the "Kriminal-ausführung PPK" while the English-language version of the same page uses the phrase "compact-design PPK". 96.35.160.223 ( talk) 15:32, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
I had always thought it was "Polizei Pistole, Klein" no source for that though — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul J Williams ( talk • contribs) 13:21, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
In a German police force the detectives are referred to as the Kriminalpolizei. The police who chase criminals as opposed to the Ordnungspolitzei who maintain order on the streets. Furthermore before WW2 the Kriminalpolizei had ranks that included the word Kriminal as in Kriminalinspektor or Kriminalkommisar. And that is why calling the plainclothes version that was going to be used by the Kriminalpolitzei the Polizei Pistole Kriminal(modell) makes a lot of sense.
I propose the following minor rephrasing. It doesn't beg every passer-by to add in the latest 2 cents: "The PPK is the trademark weapon of fictional secret agent James Bond in books and films. The weapon is prominently featured in opening sequences as well as movie art. The pistol itself enjoys popularity as a result. Bond has also used the Walther P99." Comments? Lumbercutter 04:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I read that the small Walthers were made in Alabama by Emco, Inc. That at least is what the ATF reports have listed for late 1990s production. Was there a name change? Boris B 02:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Speaking of plagiarism, it's funny that there are 11 Google hits for Gadsden "Ranger Manufacturing" and 112 for Gadsen "Ranger Manufacturing". Beware copy-and-paste research. Boris B 03:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't the article be moved to Walther PP or Walther PP series instead of Walther PPK? As stated in the opening sentence, it covers the whole model line, not just the PPK model.-- Eloil 11:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Doesn't matter if the PPK was more popular than the PP or remaining variants. This is an encyclopedia first, we won't sacrifice accuracy for popular culture appeal. The solution is simple, just have "Walther PPK" queries redirect to the main page or the variants section were the PPK is listed. Koalorka ( talk) 16:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
What is the magazine capacity of these versions of the PP & PPK? That info is absent from the infobox. — Red XIV ( talk) 13:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Walther Self-loading Pistols
Model: Magazine Capacity
PP Model .380 ACP (9mm kurz): 7
PP Model .32 ACP (7.65mm): 8
PP Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm): 8
PP/L Model .32 ACP (7.65mm) Light weight frame: 8
PP/L Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm) Light weight frame: 8
PP Sport Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm) [6" or 7 5/8" Barrel]: 10
PP Super Model, 9x17mm: 7
PP Super Model, 9x18mm: 7
PPK Model .380 ACP (9mm kurz)(pre '68): 6
PPK Model .32 ACP (7.65mm): 7
PPK Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm): 7
PPK/L Model .32 ACP (7.65mm) Light weight frame: 7
PPK/L Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm) Light weight frame: 7
PPK/S Model .380 ACP (9mm kurz): 7
PPK/S Model .32 ACP (7.65mm): 8
PPK/S Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm): 10
TP Model .25 ACP (6.35mm) [Shrouded hammer]: 6
TP Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm) [Shrouded hammer]: 6
TPH Model .25 ACP (6.35mm): 6
TPH Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm): 6
see also Walther TPH: Walther_TPH
WoodenBooks 21:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Please give details about the magazine capacity of the PPK/E —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.107.159.222 ( talk) 09:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
"The PPK pistol is the trademark gun of fictional secret agent James Bond". As far as I know Walther own the trademark of the PPK and the PPK is their intellectual property. I know that the term "trademark" is often incorrectly used to informally "refer to any distinguishing attribute by which an individual is readily identified", but I do not think that an encyclopedia article on a a firearm is the right place to be informal. Further to that, I think that some readers could be confused and believe that Ian Flemming or James Bond really does have a trademark on the PPK, which is categorically incorrect. I propose that the text reads that the PPK is known as the pistol of choice for fictional secret agent James Bond or similar wording is used. A trademark falls under intellectual property laws, so unless anyone can show me that the fictional character James Bond has filed and received a trademark on Walthers gun then it will be changed. JayKeaton 16:51, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Well if I do get rid of the word "trademark" again, then it will be you that has no choice of what to do, because you can't revert it again due to the 3 revert rule ;). In any case this hasn't been here long enough for there to be no consensus, I'll have to bring this to the attention of some other users. JayKeaton 17:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I'll make a comment. Asams, would you be ok with the wording "James Bond's signature gun"? It conveys the same meaning in this context after all. I personally have no problem with using trademark, but I would like to see a compromise found in this debate, rather than it just continuing. Same goes for you Jay, would you be ok with that wording?-- LWF 17:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Does the Walther PPK have a jamming habit as detailed in the James Bond novel Licecne Renewed? The book says that during the failed kiddnapping attempt on Princess Anne, the guard's Walther jammed, causing it to be removed from official use. Emperor001 ( talk) 02:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Walther designed its pistols for cartridges which had crimped shells. For example my PPK, made in 1941, came with GECO-made dummy cartridge for loading practice, which shell is crimped. After the WWII cartridge manufacturers ceased crimping to save manufacturing costs. So modern cartridges have slight "shoulder" where shell connects to the bullet [ [4]] and that in some cases causes weapons malfunction.-- 91.153.26.148 ( talk) 08:39, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Licence renewed is a work of fiction! Let's have some facts. Firsty the pistol in the Princess Anne attempted kidnapping case was a Walther PP not a PPK. The Metropolitan Police (the force that polices London in England) issued the Walther PP to the officers who protected members of the Royal Family because they were easier to conceal under dinner jackets than Webley revolvers. And because they were more accurate than a PPK. Inspector (later Chief Superintendent) James Beaton who was Princess Anne's personal protection officer was able to fire one shot at the kidnapper but the pistol failed to cycle and it was the only shot he was able to fire. The magazine spring failed to decompress. Some say the magazine had been kept loaded for too long. After this the Metropolitan Police rapidly replaced the the Walther PPs with whatever American made two inch .38 revolvers came to hand. Eventaully they settled on an S&W J frame. The mentality being "A revolver would never malfunction like that" That's the real life Metropolitan Police. In Licence Renewed's fictionalized representation of MI6 (aka the Secret Intelligence Service) I believe Bond was given or allowed to choose an early 20th Century Browning automatic in an obsolete 9mm calibre. Most of what I have said is coroborated by a book entitled: LOndon's armed police / Robert W. Gould publishd by Arms and Armor Press, 1986. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
210.246.39.89 (
talk) 09:36, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Excuse me but if I am not mistaken the caption on the very first picture says walther PP, but the picture in question is actualy a PPK, not a PP a feature distingishable by the shorter barrel and shorter frame. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.86.33.142 ( talk) 03:57, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Should "Walther PP" or "Walther PPK" be the title of this article? David Pro ( talk) 17:22, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
There should be a link to the French article entitled Walther PP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.107.159.222 ( talk) 09:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
The article states that the Walther PP features a double-action trigger mechanism. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the PPK/S is single-action. I don't know about any of the other models but I would assume that they are all be the same. JSFotographer ( talk) 16:52, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
I've never seen any other source state that any PP/PPK was chambered in 9mm Parabellum. The article itself doesn't even list 9mm Parabellum as an available caliber. Where is this information coming from? Funkychinaman ( talk) 06:38, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
We currently don't list the specifications of the new PPK/S .22, which came out this year (2014): http://www.waltherarms.com/products/handguns/ppks-22 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.14.188 ( talk) 20:15, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
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Exist italian page but not appear indication " italiano" in list of languages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.62.135.212 ( talk) 12:44, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
The Bond series was written poking fun at life he saw at MI6. The gun chosen required close contact to kill a person (eg behind the ear), which verifies identity and kill. So low power but quieter shot. Mossad had similar story. But looking at PPK power the velocity equals a BB gun, like 800 ft/sec for 22LR version. Would need to aim for soft tissue. TaylorLeem ( talk) 02:52, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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Did this wikipedia entry plagiarize, nearly verbatim, the material that can be found here: http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg13-e.htm
or did that page plagiarize Wikipedia?
The Walther P38 article states that Hitler used a P38 to commit suicide, whereas this article claims he used a PPK. We should probably find a source to back up either claim, and stick with it. - Ben of Oz
History channel just claimed the PPK. Hitler apperently had 2 PPKs by his side at all times, one a smaller calliber and the other which he killed himself with. Name of the documentary is as follows. Tales of the Gun German Small Arms of WW II ~-- Alt 15:59, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I've heard PPK to mean Polizeipistole Kurz ( World Guns says Kurz), which would make more sense to me. Reference on Kriminalmodell? [unsigned]
Doesn't "Polizeipistole Kriminalmodell" really mean "police pistole, criminal model"? It would be rather strange to imply that the police, or the pistols they wield, are criminals. Shouldn't that be more like "Kriminalpolizeimodell"? JIP | Talk 11:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: |pages=
has extra text (
help) that "The PPK was intended as a concealment gun for detectives, hence its name, Polizei-Pistole Kriminal, for in Germany the Detective Division, or Kriminalamt, takes its name from the hunted rather than the hunter." So that corroborates the "Kriminal" spell-out. However, the "kurz" spell-out is believable because the gun is shorter in overall height and length and better for concealment. I would bet that the "kurz" spell-out began as
folk etymology because of its logically reasonable ring.
Lumbercutter 01:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Asams10, perhaps the dispute between Kriminal and Kriminalmodell can be resolved the same way as Kurz and Kriminal. I've seen all three before, and Walther's website doesn't provide any illumination on which is correct. So we might as well have all three mentioned.
If no one disagrees I'll go ahead and put that in the article.--
LWF 00:26, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
You can download the Walther press release on the Walther PPS page if you need to verify this. Does this qualify enough to change the reference to "Kurz", or at least remove the section that states that it is incorrect?...the WALTHER PPS is a worthy successor to the legendary PPK - the Police Pistol Short.
Actually, that isn't necessarily referring to the PPK when it says Police Pistol Short, I think it is actually referring to the PPS right there, as in the successor is the Police Pistol Short.-- LWF 13:14, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Just to add more confusion to the mix, in the current (2011) Walther naming constellation, "K" (as in the PK380) refers to "Kompakt". Polizei Pistol Kompakt would make a lot of sense, particularly when their German web site shows the PP and the PPK together and refers to the PPK as the compact version of the PP. Also, their German website offers a choice of languages, and the German-language version refers to the "Kriminal-ausführung PPK" while the English-language version of the same page uses the phrase "compact-design PPK". 96.35.160.223 ( talk) 15:32, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
I had always thought it was "Polizei Pistole, Klein" no source for that though — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul J Williams ( talk • contribs) 13:21, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
In a German police force the detectives are referred to as the Kriminalpolizei. The police who chase criminals as opposed to the Ordnungspolitzei who maintain order on the streets. Furthermore before WW2 the Kriminalpolizei had ranks that included the word Kriminal as in Kriminalinspektor or Kriminalkommisar. And that is why calling the plainclothes version that was going to be used by the Kriminalpolitzei the Polizei Pistole Kriminal(modell) makes a lot of sense.
I propose the following minor rephrasing. It doesn't beg every passer-by to add in the latest 2 cents: "The PPK is the trademark weapon of fictional secret agent James Bond in books and films. The weapon is prominently featured in opening sequences as well as movie art. The pistol itself enjoys popularity as a result. Bond has also used the Walther P99." Comments? Lumbercutter 04:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I read that the small Walthers were made in Alabama by Emco, Inc. That at least is what the ATF reports have listed for late 1990s production. Was there a name change? Boris B 02:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Speaking of plagiarism, it's funny that there are 11 Google hits for Gadsden "Ranger Manufacturing" and 112 for Gadsen "Ranger Manufacturing". Beware copy-and-paste research. Boris B 03:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't the article be moved to Walther PP or Walther PP series instead of Walther PPK? As stated in the opening sentence, it covers the whole model line, not just the PPK model.-- Eloil 11:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Doesn't matter if the PPK was more popular than the PP or remaining variants. This is an encyclopedia first, we won't sacrifice accuracy for popular culture appeal. The solution is simple, just have "Walther PPK" queries redirect to the main page or the variants section were the PPK is listed. Koalorka ( talk) 16:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
What is the magazine capacity of these versions of the PP & PPK? That info is absent from the infobox. — Red XIV ( talk) 13:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Walther Self-loading Pistols
Model: Magazine Capacity
PP Model .380 ACP (9mm kurz): 7
PP Model .32 ACP (7.65mm): 8
PP Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm): 8
PP/L Model .32 ACP (7.65mm) Light weight frame: 8
PP/L Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm) Light weight frame: 8
PP Sport Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm) [6" or 7 5/8" Barrel]: 10
PP Super Model, 9x17mm: 7
PP Super Model, 9x18mm: 7
PPK Model .380 ACP (9mm kurz)(pre '68): 6
PPK Model .32 ACP (7.65mm): 7
PPK Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm): 7
PPK/L Model .32 ACP (7.65mm) Light weight frame: 7
PPK/L Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm) Light weight frame: 7
PPK/S Model .380 ACP (9mm kurz): 7
PPK/S Model .32 ACP (7.65mm): 8
PPK/S Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm): 10
TP Model .25 ACP (6.35mm) [Shrouded hammer]: 6
TP Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm) [Shrouded hammer]: 6
TPH Model .25 ACP (6.35mm): 6
TPH Model .22 L.R. (5.6mm): 6
see also Walther TPH: Walther_TPH
WoodenBooks 21:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Please give details about the magazine capacity of the PPK/E —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.107.159.222 ( talk) 09:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
"The PPK pistol is the trademark gun of fictional secret agent James Bond". As far as I know Walther own the trademark of the PPK and the PPK is their intellectual property. I know that the term "trademark" is often incorrectly used to informally "refer to any distinguishing attribute by which an individual is readily identified", but I do not think that an encyclopedia article on a a firearm is the right place to be informal. Further to that, I think that some readers could be confused and believe that Ian Flemming or James Bond really does have a trademark on the PPK, which is categorically incorrect. I propose that the text reads that the PPK is known as the pistol of choice for fictional secret agent James Bond or similar wording is used. A trademark falls under intellectual property laws, so unless anyone can show me that the fictional character James Bond has filed and received a trademark on Walthers gun then it will be changed. JayKeaton 16:51, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Well if I do get rid of the word "trademark" again, then it will be you that has no choice of what to do, because you can't revert it again due to the 3 revert rule ;). In any case this hasn't been here long enough for there to be no consensus, I'll have to bring this to the attention of some other users. JayKeaton 17:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I'll make a comment. Asams, would you be ok with the wording "James Bond's signature gun"? It conveys the same meaning in this context after all. I personally have no problem with using trademark, but I would like to see a compromise found in this debate, rather than it just continuing. Same goes for you Jay, would you be ok with that wording?-- LWF 17:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Does the Walther PPK have a jamming habit as detailed in the James Bond novel Licecne Renewed? The book says that during the failed kiddnapping attempt on Princess Anne, the guard's Walther jammed, causing it to be removed from official use. Emperor001 ( talk) 02:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Walther designed its pistols for cartridges which had crimped shells. For example my PPK, made in 1941, came with GECO-made dummy cartridge for loading practice, which shell is crimped. After the WWII cartridge manufacturers ceased crimping to save manufacturing costs. So modern cartridges have slight "shoulder" where shell connects to the bullet [ [4]] and that in some cases causes weapons malfunction.-- 91.153.26.148 ( talk) 08:39, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Licence renewed is a work of fiction! Let's have some facts. Firsty the pistol in the Princess Anne attempted kidnapping case was a Walther PP not a PPK. The Metropolitan Police (the force that polices London in England) issued the Walther PP to the officers who protected members of the Royal Family because they were easier to conceal under dinner jackets than Webley revolvers. And because they were more accurate than a PPK. Inspector (later Chief Superintendent) James Beaton who was Princess Anne's personal protection officer was able to fire one shot at the kidnapper but the pistol failed to cycle and it was the only shot he was able to fire. The magazine spring failed to decompress. Some say the magazine had been kept loaded for too long. After this the Metropolitan Police rapidly replaced the the Walther PPs with whatever American made two inch .38 revolvers came to hand. Eventaully they settled on an S&W J frame. The mentality being "A revolver would never malfunction like that" That's the real life Metropolitan Police. In Licence Renewed's fictionalized representation of MI6 (aka the Secret Intelligence Service) I believe Bond was given or allowed to choose an early 20th Century Browning automatic in an obsolete 9mm calibre. Most of what I have said is coroborated by a book entitled: LOndon's armed police / Robert W. Gould publishd by Arms and Armor Press, 1986. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
210.246.39.89 (
talk) 09:36, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Excuse me but if I am not mistaken the caption on the very first picture says walther PP, but the picture in question is actualy a PPK, not a PP a feature distingishable by the shorter barrel and shorter frame. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.86.33.142 ( talk) 03:57, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Should "Walther PP" or "Walther PPK" be the title of this article? David Pro ( talk) 17:22, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
There should be a link to the French article entitled Walther PP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.107.159.222 ( talk) 09:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
The article states that the Walther PP features a double-action trigger mechanism. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the PPK/S is single-action. I don't know about any of the other models but I would assume that they are all be the same. JSFotographer ( talk) 16:52, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
I've never seen any other source state that any PP/PPK was chambered in 9mm Parabellum. The article itself doesn't even list 9mm Parabellum as an available caliber. Where is this information coming from? Funkychinaman ( talk) 06:38, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
We currently don't list the specifications of the new PPK/S .22, which came out this year (2014): http://www.waltherarms.com/products/handguns/ppks-22 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.14.188 ( talk) 20:15, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
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Exist italian page but not appear indication " italiano" in list of languages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.62.135.212 ( talk) 12:44, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
The Bond series was written poking fun at life he saw at MI6. The gun chosen required close contact to kill a person (eg behind the ear), which verifies identity and kill. So low power but quieter shot. Mossad had similar story. But looking at PPK power the velocity equals a BB gun, like 800 ft/sec for 22LR version. Would need to aim for soft tissue. TaylorLeem ( talk) 02:52, 6 July 2020 (UTC)