![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Alright, I'm not really curious here: this page is on my watchlist since I did some minor copyediting a couple of weeks ago. Since then, it seems I've reverted some sort of vandalism at least once per day, and other users have done dozens of reverts in between. Now I'm really wondering what makes WYSIWYG such a tempting target for trolls and vandals...in a way, I can understand why the article on Adolf Hitler, for example, is constantly vandalized, but with this article, I have to admit I just don't get it... -- Ferkelparade π 00:55, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Shinobu 16:37, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Its good that you removed the Offic refernece, but Page View in Word isn't true WYSIWYG. User:ccool2ax 7:19, 4 Nov 2005 (CST) If you turn off the grid, and display fields in the "results" mode rather than in the "field codes" mode, it should be as close to WYSIWYG as realistically achievable considering the different resolutions, and the possibility of a printer only being able to output B&W. If significant differences are visible you've either stumbled upon a bug in Word, or should update your printer driver (much more likely). I've had some experience using various versions of Word on various computers and never noticed deviations. Shinobu 09:16, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
I removed the statement that "true WYSIWYG vanished" because it lacked justification. If "true WYSIWYG" is meant a pixel-per-pixel identity, "true WYSIWYG" never existed in the first place. If WYSIWYG is allowed to be achieved when there are resolution differences, then it doesn't matter much what the scaling factors are (the locations on screen can be determined with an accuracy of one pixel, or even better if one allows for the increased use of anti-aliasing). In fact some programs in use today do quite a wonderful job in presenting the page on screen as it will look when printed without giving the user wrong ideas about the appearance of the final result. Shinobu 23:18, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments! I'll give you my ideas on this on an item-by-item basis.
TurboTax - I have unfortunately no experience with this program, but I suppose it is something like the belastingdiskette. The primary goal of such a program is not to layout and format a document, but to generate a tax-return form based upon user input. WYSIWYG doesn't add much to such an application.
Word - Word indeed has four different view modes. The normal view is provided for nostalgia, I think. The web view is meant to preview how a document will look in a non-paged context (like a webbrowser). The page view is almost WYSIWYG, except that things don't appear in grayscale or patterned if you've got a black-and-white printer, like I do. The structure view is designed to make the document structure visible, show headings, move them around and such. Since the document will not be printed with collapsed paragraphs, such a mode is necessarily non-WYSIWYG.
Programs often are WYSIWYG, except when it's not practical, in which case they usually have a print-preview mode. In my personal experience it is a lot easier to write an "almost WYSIWYG" program than a program that is not WYSIWYG at all, since it saves you the trouble of writing the drawing code again for the printer. Although to get things absolutely right you might still need to fiddle around a bit.
In any case, I don't think that the programs mentioned above are WYSIWYG or non-WYSIWYG because hardware resolutions have changed, like the article suggested. I think usability is the primary reason, since word processors, DTP applications, drawing programs etc. often are WYSIWYG.
I don't think making observations, like you do, or like I do, is being POV by the way.
Bye! I'd appreciate your comments. Shinobu 17:00, 6 Apr 2005
Although MS Word offers various modes, none of them provide full explicit access to the format control codes. WordPerfect originally used explicit format codes, and later provided access to both (format or WYSIWYG) modes. 69.87.193.15 17:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I reverted Gosparty's edits. I think most of the added information doesn't belong in this article. You can use the history feature to add the information to another article if you feel the urge to do so. However, I recommend wikifaction and style improvement before doing so. Shinobu 21:36, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
While I appreciate critical views of everything, I appreciate them even more if no non-facts are presented as facts in the process.
@WYSIWYG, is becoming increasingly difficult to realise: this is not true. If you can print it, you can make it appear on screen just the same way, and vice versa. Resolution problems, black and white problems, etc. don't count as deviating from WYSIWYG. The point is to get when editing a view of a document that is as true as possible to what it will look like in the final version. In a lot of operating systems it is possible to use the same drawing code for the screen and the printer. The only thing that usually needs to be done to make a program WYSIWYG is to set up the coordinate system.
After that the section makes even more claims, some of which don't have anything to do with WYSIWYG. I've put up a Disputed-notice. Shinobu 10:16, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
I agree that some comments need to be justified and have done so. Is the clarificatoin and justification sufficient to remove the disputed header? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rgardler ( talk • contribs) 14:41, 7 July 2005
Does anybody think a section on the difficulties of implementing true WYSIWYG would be useful? This would cover the problem currently mentioned in passing of using different font metrics for display and print, what problems it causes, the solution currently employed by MS Word and others (using a scaled down version of the printer's metrics) and its disadvantage (that layout can change when you select a new printer), and the solution employed by PDF (using standardised font metrics and ignoring the printer's own ideas about them). JulesH 11:07, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I believe this would be useful rgardler 11:49, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
For example, when designing a poster intended for billboard hoardings, a seemingly insignificant half pixel rounding error can become a noticeable artifact in the final output format. Similarly, an incorrect colour balance on a standard advertising flyer can make a significant difference to the final product.
WYGS means "What You Get Sucks". Yes, it can be regarded as stupid / lame but well, there are a bunch of similar more or less humorous acronyms on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.134.0.44 ( talk • contribs) 20:10, 16 September 2005
Two programs that're rather bad with this are Netscape Composer/Navigator and the old Corel WordPerfect 3.5e for Macintosh.
You'd think that a web browser and HTML editor that come together, from the same company, would display the same HTML exactly the same. Nope! Copmoser displays many HTML elements very differently than the same version of Navigator. I can't think of any good reasons why Netscape could not make them display identically. They _should_ have the same display engine but apparently there are differences.
WordPerfect 3.5e can _create_ HTML and it looks pretty good. What it cannot do is properly load and display the file that was just created and saved. If the file is saved again, without any editing, it saves the screwed up mess so it'll display that way in browsers. So unless you get your HTML right the first time in this program, you're stuck. I didn't try loading an HTML document created with a different program so I don't know how badly it interprets other programs' code. It does a bad enough job on its own code! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.186.114.230 ( talk • contribs) 20:28, 15 December 2005
I dont have a username, I'm just passing through... I have removed what I thought was some kind of spam from the end of the "related acronyms" section. It appeared to be just HTML put into the body of the text, as code was showing all the way through. Does this happen often? Wikipedia's a pretty tight ship so I've never seen it before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.152.106.242 ( talk • contribs) 12:58, 3 June 2006
http://wetpaint.com/ looks like a WYSIWYG and is a Wiki.
I am in no way endorsing this wiki.
http://brickiwiki.wetpaint.com/page/Home
Competes with the Much more poplar
An I natural like MediaWiki So much better because I can re edit my comments and i know the formatting so well.-- E-Bod 02:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I've just deleted a load of them. I've kept the ones that seemed important -- the ones that discussed important concepts related to WYSIWYG, for instance, plus those that contain links to other wikipedia articles. I've deleted a number that seemed to just be jibes at problems with WYSIWYG software, or which were basically arbitrary distinctions (e.g. the separate term for WYSIWYG Wikis... totally pointless, just call them a WYSIWYG Wiki), or weren't related to WYSIWYG (e.g. 'WYSIWYN', which apparently simply means 'not WYSIWYG' in the context of web editors... a totally pointless term that is probably only used for marketing purposes).
I just don't think this is the kind of thing that should be in an encyclopedia. JulesH 22:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I noticed the acronym "YAFIYGI" is not included, although the entry for YAFIYGI redirects to this page and heading. I would argue that it's origin (as far as I can remember) came from the classic essay "Real Programmers Dont Use PASCAL" and I always felt it has become part of the lexicon much more than many of these related acronyms. A Google search turns up quite a few references, and again, more than most of these other related acronyms. Its been a favorite reference of mine for 20 years so I'm a little biased to keeping it in here (I assume it was removed as part of cleanup). A decent write-up of it here http://www.answers.com/topic/yafiygi-computer-jargon RenderSeven —Preceding undated comment was added at 20:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC).
Actually, the first use of the phrase "What you see is what you get." dates from the late 60s, and was one of the best known phrases used by the comedian Flip Wilson. The magazine in the 70s obviously adapted it.
There should be a small section under history about him as well, since the phrase is also commonly assiciated with him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plekto ( talk • contribs) 04:54, 16 June 2006
I don't think I would call a bulletin board reply box a What You See Is What You Get editor, because you have to use BBCode. Sure, you don't have to use line/paragraph breaks, but still [b]Hello[/b] [i]Joe[/i], [color=red]hello[/red] is fairly different than Hello Joe, Hello. I think Word or Framemaker or something would be a better example of a WYSIWYG editor. I put this on the talk page for the image as well. Carpenoctem (talk)
I've seen "WYSIWIG" used before, and WYSIWIG redirects here; what does it mean? I assume it stands for "what you see is what I get", but I don't understand what that would mean in the context of a computer program; could someone give an example? This isn't mentioned in the article. -- Creidieki 22:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Latest change puts the pronunciation guide like this:
If my IPA's up to scratch, I read the latter as "wheezy-wig". Does anybody actually pronounce it like that? I know "whizzy-wig" as the first one reads isn't exactly universal (I pronounce it whissy-wig, for example), but it seemed a common enough pronounciation. But "wheezy-wig"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by JulesH ( talk • contribs)
Oddly enough, I've always thought it was "weiss-y-wig" but I guess that's just me! Ddddan 05:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I've removed this section
==Tradeoffs== {{Unreferenced|date=January 2007}} Even from a purely user point of view, pure WYSIWYG editing is not always a superior approach. It tends to be much easier for beginners to understand and use, but is not usually as controllable or efficient in many cases, for experienced users, as being able to access and manipulate the underlying format codes. The ideal would be to have access to multiple modes -- for example, to use a WYSIWYG HTML editor, that also provides very easy integrated access to viewing and editing the HTML source code directly.
While I happen to personally agree with this position, I looked for academic sources that supported the conclusion, but failed to find any. If we can find some, it should go back in, IMO. Otherwise, it should stay out. JulesH 01:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, it is true. And it is both relevant and important. But whether anyone can prove it, or officially sanction it... remains to be seen. (Over 90% of existing total overall WP article content is similarly "unsourced". Fortunately, most of it goes relatively undisputed.) 69.87.193.15 17:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, most everything, certainly technology, involves tradeoffs. Many WP articles would benefit from addressing these more forthrightly. Certainly WYSIWYG is a tech with tradeoffs. What they are, and how to describe them, would be a matter of opinion... WYSIWYG software was traditionally more complex, harder to write. Uses more resources. Tends to create less-compact, less-efficient output files. Easier for less-experienced people to use, with is both good and bad. But the most important UI-theory aspect is that WYSIWYG is inherently superficial, a view of what is being created that concentrates on appearance. Sometimes that works great. Sometimes working with the material in other, more abstract ways has advantages. Which would be why being limited to only WYSIWYG modes can be a disadvantage. 69.87.193.15 18:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
When reading this article I was struck by the fact that it lacked content similar to the one mentioned as removed above. Overall the article gives a too "WYSIWYG is good; mark-up is bad" impression. I strongly recommend that something is done in this area; in particular, as many people are naive and/or prejudiced against non-WYSIWYG editing, and this article _may_ worsen this problem.
I note that I have myself extensive experience with MS Word, OpenOffic, LaTeX, HTML, and some CMS/Wiki-markups, and from my POV (classic "power user") WYSIWYG causes more problems than it solves (in contrast, I love LaTeX). What I have seen among other users shows a clear confirmation of the "beginner" vs. "experienced user" divide in the above text.
94.220.246.95 ( talk) 19:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
What does the heading TMI in the article mean? Is is an acronym for something? If no one can answer this, I'm going to change it to External Links. — Frecklefoot 18:12, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Dude, all I need to know is how to strike through a couple of words of text in my blog. ARGH! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.9.180 ( talk • contribs) 03:52, 13 July 2005
I changed the pronunciation back as I believe it is pronounced "whizzy-wig", not "wheezy-wig". Whizzy is a real word too. A google search for "whizzy-wig" returns 249 pages, whereas "wheezy-wig" produces just 2. Angela 18:29, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)
for several years, there has been a professional software program that is actually named WYSIWYG. [5] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.103.112.246 ( talk) 18:50, 12 February 2007 (UTC).
What You See Is What You Get is also a minature wargaming term refering to having all of a model's upgrades and weapons clearly modeled on the figure, suggest disambiguation for that too. 1st scots
The word WYSIWYG seems to have reached the microcomputer enthusiast community around 1980, when affordable printers were rare. For example, the Radio Shack TRS-80 Level II microcomputer could be outfitted with a reasonably-priced printer which used rolls of aluminized paper (somewhat like cash register receipt paper). Instead of 80 columns, these printers had a max carriage width of 40 characters. They did not use true descenders: "g", "j", and "p" did not proceed below the baseline. To a microcomputer enthusiast, a printer should have true descenders and should print 80 columns wide instead of wrapping lines.
Jessemckay 06:57, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
According to an 18 Oct 2007 New York Times Bits blog by John Markoff WYSISYG was first coined by Chuck Thacker's wife Karen around 1974. Chuck was a hardware designer at Xerox PARC. [6] Tetzel42 02:13, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
What you get is what you're given and it's no good whining!
A saying of Archchancellor Ridcully from Discworld.
Feel free to delete if inappropriate - it sure doesn't fit with the main page, but it's funny :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.202.101.60 ( talk) 22:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I've abbreviated the first (summary) para and tried to make a clearer separation between different meanings of WYSIWYG.
Bottom line: NPOV concern because younger editors don't realise that the rich world of WP and DTP pre-dates the IBM PC by 10 years! - Pointillist ( talk) 01:58, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Wordperfect-5.1-dos.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 07:23, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
I dunno. I go away for a few months and all hell breaks loose.
Starting on tidying up the recent changes, particularly to the history section. Important changes:
Hope I haven't pissed people off too much here. JulesH ( talk) 21:13, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
I've removed the following external links but I'm copying them here in case someone thinks they are useful (e.g. maybe for entries in the
List of HTML editors. -
Pointillist (
talk)
15:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Linkspam:
Blog entry by a non-notable author:
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:18, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:21, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:22, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:24, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:40, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:44, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I think the following should somehow be included in the article; it's based on my personal experience with WYSIWYG web publishing software, but I'm guessing these are widely observed and relevant criticisms: WYSIWYG HTML editors can generate superfluous tags, which can bloat the page and make it load more slowly, and the generated code isn't necessarily valid. (The latter point is addressed in the article section to which I linked.) And if there's an option to switch to a "code" view while editing, the HTML might reformat itself when switching views. Web-based editors especially seem to like to strip bits of code entirely; although this may actually be the intended behavior, perhaps to conform to security/spam concerns and possibly other limitations of the platform. B7T ( talk) 05:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Alright, I'm not really curious here: this page is on my watchlist since I did some minor copyediting a couple of weeks ago. Since then, it seems I've reverted some sort of vandalism at least once per day, and other users have done dozens of reverts in between. Now I'm really wondering what makes WYSIWYG such a tempting target for trolls and vandals...in a way, I can understand why the article on Adolf Hitler, for example, is constantly vandalized, but with this article, I have to admit I just don't get it... -- Ferkelparade π 00:55, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Shinobu 16:37, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Its good that you removed the Offic refernece, but Page View in Word isn't true WYSIWYG. User:ccool2ax 7:19, 4 Nov 2005 (CST) If you turn off the grid, and display fields in the "results" mode rather than in the "field codes" mode, it should be as close to WYSIWYG as realistically achievable considering the different resolutions, and the possibility of a printer only being able to output B&W. If significant differences are visible you've either stumbled upon a bug in Word, or should update your printer driver (much more likely). I've had some experience using various versions of Word on various computers and never noticed deviations. Shinobu 09:16, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
I removed the statement that "true WYSIWYG vanished" because it lacked justification. If "true WYSIWYG" is meant a pixel-per-pixel identity, "true WYSIWYG" never existed in the first place. If WYSIWYG is allowed to be achieved when there are resolution differences, then it doesn't matter much what the scaling factors are (the locations on screen can be determined with an accuracy of one pixel, or even better if one allows for the increased use of anti-aliasing). In fact some programs in use today do quite a wonderful job in presenting the page on screen as it will look when printed without giving the user wrong ideas about the appearance of the final result. Shinobu 23:18, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments! I'll give you my ideas on this on an item-by-item basis.
TurboTax - I have unfortunately no experience with this program, but I suppose it is something like the belastingdiskette. The primary goal of such a program is not to layout and format a document, but to generate a tax-return form based upon user input. WYSIWYG doesn't add much to such an application.
Word - Word indeed has four different view modes. The normal view is provided for nostalgia, I think. The web view is meant to preview how a document will look in a non-paged context (like a webbrowser). The page view is almost WYSIWYG, except that things don't appear in grayscale or patterned if you've got a black-and-white printer, like I do. The structure view is designed to make the document structure visible, show headings, move them around and such. Since the document will not be printed with collapsed paragraphs, such a mode is necessarily non-WYSIWYG.
Programs often are WYSIWYG, except when it's not practical, in which case they usually have a print-preview mode. In my personal experience it is a lot easier to write an "almost WYSIWYG" program than a program that is not WYSIWYG at all, since it saves you the trouble of writing the drawing code again for the printer. Although to get things absolutely right you might still need to fiddle around a bit.
In any case, I don't think that the programs mentioned above are WYSIWYG or non-WYSIWYG because hardware resolutions have changed, like the article suggested. I think usability is the primary reason, since word processors, DTP applications, drawing programs etc. often are WYSIWYG.
I don't think making observations, like you do, or like I do, is being POV by the way.
Bye! I'd appreciate your comments. Shinobu 17:00, 6 Apr 2005
Although MS Word offers various modes, none of them provide full explicit access to the format control codes. WordPerfect originally used explicit format codes, and later provided access to both (format or WYSIWYG) modes. 69.87.193.15 17:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I reverted Gosparty's edits. I think most of the added information doesn't belong in this article. You can use the history feature to add the information to another article if you feel the urge to do so. However, I recommend wikifaction and style improvement before doing so. Shinobu 21:36, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
While I appreciate critical views of everything, I appreciate them even more if no non-facts are presented as facts in the process.
@WYSIWYG, is becoming increasingly difficult to realise: this is not true. If you can print it, you can make it appear on screen just the same way, and vice versa. Resolution problems, black and white problems, etc. don't count as deviating from WYSIWYG. The point is to get when editing a view of a document that is as true as possible to what it will look like in the final version. In a lot of operating systems it is possible to use the same drawing code for the screen and the printer. The only thing that usually needs to be done to make a program WYSIWYG is to set up the coordinate system.
After that the section makes even more claims, some of which don't have anything to do with WYSIWYG. I've put up a Disputed-notice. Shinobu 10:16, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
I agree that some comments need to be justified and have done so. Is the clarificatoin and justification sufficient to remove the disputed header? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rgardler ( talk • contribs) 14:41, 7 July 2005
Does anybody think a section on the difficulties of implementing true WYSIWYG would be useful? This would cover the problem currently mentioned in passing of using different font metrics for display and print, what problems it causes, the solution currently employed by MS Word and others (using a scaled down version of the printer's metrics) and its disadvantage (that layout can change when you select a new printer), and the solution employed by PDF (using standardised font metrics and ignoring the printer's own ideas about them). JulesH 11:07, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I believe this would be useful rgardler 11:49, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
For example, when designing a poster intended for billboard hoardings, a seemingly insignificant half pixel rounding error can become a noticeable artifact in the final output format. Similarly, an incorrect colour balance on a standard advertising flyer can make a significant difference to the final product.
WYGS means "What You Get Sucks". Yes, it can be regarded as stupid / lame but well, there are a bunch of similar more or less humorous acronyms on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.134.0.44 ( talk • contribs) 20:10, 16 September 2005
Two programs that're rather bad with this are Netscape Composer/Navigator and the old Corel WordPerfect 3.5e for Macintosh.
You'd think that a web browser and HTML editor that come together, from the same company, would display the same HTML exactly the same. Nope! Copmoser displays many HTML elements very differently than the same version of Navigator. I can't think of any good reasons why Netscape could not make them display identically. They _should_ have the same display engine but apparently there are differences.
WordPerfect 3.5e can _create_ HTML and it looks pretty good. What it cannot do is properly load and display the file that was just created and saved. If the file is saved again, without any editing, it saves the screwed up mess so it'll display that way in browsers. So unless you get your HTML right the first time in this program, you're stuck. I didn't try loading an HTML document created with a different program so I don't know how badly it interprets other programs' code. It does a bad enough job on its own code! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.186.114.230 ( talk • contribs) 20:28, 15 December 2005
I dont have a username, I'm just passing through... I have removed what I thought was some kind of spam from the end of the "related acronyms" section. It appeared to be just HTML put into the body of the text, as code was showing all the way through. Does this happen often? Wikipedia's a pretty tight ship so I've never seen it before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.152.106.242 ( talk • contribs) 12:58, 3 June 2006
http://wetpaint.com/ looks like a WYSIWYG and is a Wiki.
I am in no way endorsing this wiki.
http://brickiwiki.wetpaint.com/page/Home
Competes with the Much more poplar
An I natural like MediaWiki So much better because I can re edit my comments and i know the formatting so well.-- E-Bod 02:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I've just deleted a load of them. I've kept the ones that seemed important -- the ones that discussed important concepts related to WYSIWYG, for instance, plus those that contain links to other wikipedia articles. I've deleted a number that seemed to just be jibes at problems with WYSIWYG software, or which were basically arbitrary distinctions (e.g. the separate term for WYSIWYG Wikis... totally pointless, just call them a WYSIWYG Wiki), or weren't related to WYSIWYG (e.g. 'WYSIWYN', which apparently simply means 'not WYSIWYG' in the context of web editors... a totally pointless term that is probably only used for marketing purposes).
I just don't think this is the kind of thing that should be in an encyclopedia. JulesH 22:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I noticed the acronym "YAFIYGI" is not included, although the entry for YAFIYGI redirects to this page and heading. I would argue that it's origin (as far as I can remember) came from the classic essay "Real Programmers Dont Use PASCAL" and I always felt it has become part of the lexicon much more than many of these related acronyms. A Google search turns up quite a few references, and again, more than most of these other related acronyms. Its been a favorite reference of mine for 20 years so I'm a little biased to keeping it in here (I assume it was removed as part of cleanup). A decent write-up of it here http://www.answers.com/topic/yafiygi-computer-jargon RenderSeven —Preceding undated comment was added at 20:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC).
Actually, the first use of the phrase "What you see is what you get." dates from the late 60s, and was one of the best known phrases used by the comedian Flip Wilson. The magazine in the 70s obviously adapted it.
There should be a small section under history about him as well, since the phrase is also commonly assiciated with him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plekto ( talk • contribs) 04:54, 16 June 2006
I don't think I would call a bulletin board reply box a What You See Is What You Get editor, because you have to use BBCode. Sure, you don't have to use line/paragraph breaks, but still [b]Hello[/b] [i]Joe[/i], [color=red]hello[/red] is fairly different than Hello Joe, Hello. I think Word or Framemaker or something would be a better example of a WYSIWYG editor. I put this on the talk page for the image as well. Carpenoctem (talk)
I've seen "WYSIWIG" used before, and WYSIWIG redirects here; what does it mean? I assume it stands for "what you see is what I get", but I don't understand what that would mean in the context of a computer program; could someone give an example? This isn't mentioned in the article. -- Creidieki 22:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Latest change puts the pronunciation guide like this:
If my IPA's up to scratch, I read the latter as "wheezy-wig". Does anybody actually pronounce it like that? I know "whizzy-wig" as the first one reads isn't exactly universal (I pronounce it whissy-wig, for example), but it seemed a common enough pronounciation. But "wheezy-wig"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by JulesH ( talk • contribs)
Oddly enough, I've always thought it was "weiss-y-wig" but I guess that's just me! Ddddan 05:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I've removed this section
==Tradeoffs== {{Unreferenced|date=January 2007}} Even from a purely user point of view, pure WYSIWYG editing is not always a superior approach. It tends to be much easier for beginners to understand and use, but is not usually as controllable or efficient in many cases, for experienced users, as being able to access and manipulate the underlying format codes. The ideal would be to have access to multiple modes -- for example, to use a WYSIWYG HTML editor, that also provides very easy integrated access to viewing and editing the HTML source code directly.
While I happen to personally agree with this position, I looked for academic sources that supported the conclusion, but failed to find any. If we can find some, it should go back in, IMO. Otherwise, it should stay out. JulesH 01:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, it is true. And it is both relevant and important. But whether anyone can prove it, or officially sanction it... remains to be seen. (Over 90% of existing total overall WP article content is similarly "unsourced". Fortunately, most of it goes relatively undisputed.) 69.87.193.15 17:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, most everything, certainly technology, involves tradeoffs. Many WP articles would benefit from addressing these more forthrightly. Certainly WYSIWYG is a tech with tradeoffs. What they are, and how to describe them, would be a matter of opinion... WYSIWYG software was traditionally more complex, harder to write. Uses more resources. Tends to create less-compact, less-efficient output files. Easier for less-experienced people to use, with is both good and bad. But the most important UI-theory aspect is that WYSIWYG is inherently superficial, a view of what is being created that concentrates on appearance. Sometimes that works great. Sometimes working with the material in other, more abstract ways has advantages. Which would be why being limited to only WYSIWYG modes can be a disadvantage. 69.87.193.15 18:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
When reading this article I was struck by the fact that it lacked content similar to the one mentioned as removed above. Overall the article gives a too "WYSIWYG is good; mark-up is bad" impression. I strongly recommend that something is done in this area; in particular, as many people are naive and/or prejudiced against non-WYSIWYG editing, and this article _may_ worsen this problem.
I note that I have myself extensive experience with MS Word, OpenOffic, LaTeX, HTML, and some CMS/Wiki-markups, and from my POV (classic "power user") WYSIWYG causes more problems than it solves (in contrast, I love LaTeX). What I have seen among other users shows a clear confirmation of the "beginner" vs. "experienced user" divide in the above text.
94.220.246.95 ( talk) 19:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
What does the heading TMI in the article mean? Is is an acronym for something? If no one can answer this, I'm going to change it to External Links. — Frecklefoot 18:12, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Dude, all I need to know is how to strike through a couple of words of text in my blog. ARGH! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.9.180 ( talk • contribs) 03:52, 13 July 2005
I changed the pronunciation back as I believe it is pronounced "whizzy-wig", not "wheezy-wig". Whizzy is a real word too. A google search for "whizzy-wig" returns 249 pages, whereas "wheezy-wig" produces just 2. Angela 18:29, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)
for several years, there has been a professional software program that is actually named WYSIWYG. [5] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.103.112.246 ( talk) 18:50, 12 February 2007 (UTC).
What You See Is What You Get is also a minature wargaming term refering to having all of a model's upgrades and weapons clearly modeled on the figure, suggest disambiguation for that too. 1st scots
The word WYSIWYG seems to have reached the microcomputer enthusiast community around 1980, when affordable printers were rare. For example, the Radio Shack TRS-80 Level II microcomputer could be outfitted with a reasonably-priced printer which used rolls of aluminized paper (somewhat like cash register receipt paper). Instead of 80 columns, these printers had a max carriage width of 40 characters. They did not use true descenders: "g", "j", and "p" did not proceed below the baseline. To a microcomputer enthusiast, a printer should have true descenders and should print 80 columns wide instead of wrapping lines.
Jessemckay 06:57, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
According to an 18 Oct 2007 New York Times Bits blog by John Markoff WYSISYG was first coined by Chuck Thacker's wife Karen around 1974. Chuck was a hardware designer at Xerox PARC. [6] Tetzel42 02:13, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
What you get is what you're given and it's no good whining!
A saying of Archchancellor Ridcully from Discworld.
Feel free to delete if inappropriate - it sure doesn't fit with the main page, but it's funny :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.202.101.60 ( talk) 22:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I've abbreviated the first (summary) para and tried to make a clearer separation between different meanings of WYSIWYG.
Bottom line: NPOV concern because younger editors don't realise that the rich world of WP and DTP pre-dates the IBM PC by 10 years! - Pointillist ( talk) 01:58, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Wordperfect-5.1-dos.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 07:23, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
I dunno. I go away for a few months and all hell breaks loose.
Starting on tidying up the recent changes, particularly to the history section. Important changes:
Hope I haven't pissed people off too much here. JulesH ( talk) 21:13, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
I've removed the following external links but I'm copying them here in case someone thinks they are useful (e.g. maybe for entries in the
List of HTML editors. -
Pointillist (
talk)
15:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Linkspam:
Blog entry by a non-notable author:
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:18, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:21, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:22, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:24, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:40, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
-- 222.64.219.102 ( talk) 02:44, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I think the following should somehow be included in the article; it's based on my personal experience with WYSIWYG web publishing software, but I'm guessing these are widely observed and relevant criticisms: WYSIWYG HTML editors can generate superfluous tags, which can bloat the page and make it load more slowly, and the generated code isn't necessarily valid. (The latter point is addressed in the article section to which I linked.) And if there's an option to switch to a "code" view while editing, the HTML might reformat itself when switching views. Web-based editors especially seem to like to strip bits of code entirely; although this may actually be the intended behavior, perhaps to conform to security/spam concerns and possibly other limitations of the platform. B7T ( talk) 05:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)