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Why the change? In short: because <company name> <processor name>, where <company name> belongs to the originating company, is the de facto standard for microprocessor articles in WKP. Note that this also applies to processors which are/have been second-sourced (i.e., manufactured by one or more companies other than the originating one). -- Wernher 14:48, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
This is a wrongheaded decision. The 65C02 is a family of related designs: any suggestion they are licensed derivates of WDC's particular design should be supported by citations. The presumption should otherwise be that the designs were independent implementations in CMOS of the 6502 instruction set, with enhancements. This article may mention WDC's specific choices but should not elevate them as definitive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.64.214 ( talk) 16:14, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
The datasheet's link on 65xx.com seems to be dead. --Thomas, 4:02pm, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I've checked the datasheet for the G65SC02 [1] and it seems the TSB and TRB instructions were not removed, and that only RMB, SMB, BBR and BBS were removed. I've updated the article accordingly. -- StuartBrady 20:58, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
The power consumption is listed at 150uA, which I presume is supposed to mean 150 microamps. However, following the link for uA directs to nanoamps. A nanoamp would be written as nA, not uA. Shall I assume it's supposed to be microamps? What is the source on this anyway? Mofoburrell ( talk) 22:29, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I suggest merging the stubby article W65C02S into the WDC 65C02 article. The "W65C02S" is a kind of "WDC 65C02", and I think the similarities and minor differences between all the kinds of "WDC 65C02" can easily be covered in this one article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.124.33 ( talk) 15:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
The given frequencies for the Apple II models are slightly incorrect. They don't run at 1.023 MHz but at 1.020484... MHz, i.e. 65 machine cycles per 228 cycles of the NTSC color carrier frequency. I'd correct it myself if the article wasn't locked. -- 77.187.133.27 ( talk) 09:11, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Is this microprocessor still in use? I am not technically minded enough to know, but I ran into this circuit from this page:
/info/en/?search=Transistor_count
It shows that it has had an updated manufacturing process in 2009 using the 0.22 µm process. Thus it appears that it is still being manufactured - but the "Notable uses" section only lists ancient products such as the Apple II. Does anybody know what this is still being used for? And is it still used in large quantities? Thanks in advance to anybody who knows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Betathetapi545 ( talk • contribs) 09:30, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
This section is very inaccurate and confusing.
The first paragraph starts with "variation on indirect addr. mode" but describes a direct addressing mode. Furthermore, the (zp,y) mode did not exist. I suppose the author meant "LDA $12,Y". But then the statement "Unfortunately, this was the only way to load data from the ZP" would be wrong, since most ALU instructions worked with ZP and Absolute addressing modes.
The 3rd paragraph is also incorrect, as the original 6502 also included a (zp),y postindexed mode. In fact it was the only indirect addressing mode that was used regularly on the C64.
The 4th paragraph is also incorrect. The JMP instruction was updated with (absolute,X). The JSR instruction was not affected. There was no JMP or JSR (zp,x) on the original 6502.
All these comments can easily be verified with any copy of the original 6502 and 65C02 datasheets (widely available on the internet).
I suggest a complete rewrite.
DiederikH ( talk) 18:28, 7 September 2019 (UTC) [1] [2] [3]
References
Development began in 1981[a] when it was known as the 65802.
That is untrue.
Evidently, whomever wrote that into the article completely misread the reference source. That source did not say the 65C02 was named the 65802. The 65C802 designation was given to the 65C816 when packaged for use in 65(C)02 circuits. The 65C02 was never referred to as "65802" at any point in its development.
The 65C02 design commenced shortly after Bill Mensch founded the Western Design Center in 1978—the 'C02 was WDC's first product. Mensch is the sole patent-holder on the 65C02 design, with Rockwell and others acting as second-sources. Functional product was available through distribution in late 1982—I bought one at the time to try out in a Commodore 8024 computer—and Apple started purchasing 65C02s in 1984 to power the Apple IIC and later the IIE. As soon as the 65C02 had gone into production, Mensch (and his sister) commenced design work on the 65C816.
Although the commonly-repeated story is one where Apple wanted the 65C816 and that is why it was developed, the fact of the matter is Mensch already had the 65C816's design worked out and realized he needed a (relatively) high-volume application for the processor in order to proceed. It so happened that Apple was looking to develop a "poor-man's MacIntosh" and when Mensch learned about their plan he pitched the 65C816. Steve Wozniak revealed in January 1985 that they were looking at the 65816. The result was the Apple IIGS, which went into production in 1986.
The 65C802 came later on, after WDC had amortized the costs of developing the 65C816. The 65C802 is essentially a 65C816 die in a package that is pin-compatible with the 65C02. No bank address is emitted by the 65C802 and it lacks the ABORT input, as well as the VDA and VPA outputs of the '816—the latter two are replaced by SYNC. Also, the Rockwell RMB, SMB, BBR and BBS instructions are missing in the 65C802 (and in the 65C816).
Many Apple IIE owners upgraded their machines with the 65C02 or 65C802. IIC owners often removed the 65C02 and replaced it with a 65C816.
The 65C02 core is currently used in embedded applications, including heart pacers and defibrillators. Estimated usage of the 65C02 in discrete and ASIC forms is over 100 million units per year.
216.152.18.132 ( talk) 07:39, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
Atari was the first, for many years the ONLY and by far the LARGEST (by number of units sold) user of 65C02 processors, dwarfing the combined sales of all the other systems mentioned here COMBINED.
Abkedefghi ( talk) 13:47, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Abkedefghi: The Atari machines did not use the 65C02, they used the 6502C. That is a slightly modified version of the original MOS 6502, and has nothing to do with the topic of this article. Maury Markowitz ( talk) 23:21, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
This section needs some attention. There is at least one incorrect statement in it concerning STP, and the description of how the WAI instruction behaves following an SEI instruction is not particularly understandable. It might be worth looking at the 6502 interrupts article (can't recall the exact title), which has some discussion about STP and WAI.
216.152.18.132 ( talk) 06:59, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
The 6502 article talks about the 65C02 in its opening text. It claims that the 65C02/65xx family continues to be widely used, with "with estimated production volumes in the hundreds of millions".
The linked reference is to the Western Design Centre website. The actual paragraph there says: "...Annual volumes in the hundreds (100's) of millions of units keep adding in a significant way to the estimated shipped volumes of five (5) to ten (10) billion units. With 200MHz+ 8-bit W65C02S and 100MHz+ 8/16-bit W65C816S processors coming on line in ASIC and FPGA forms, we see these annual volumes continuing for a long, long time. The 65xx brand is probably the only processor family that has remained loyal to its ISA over the last 33 years."
The last 33 years since 1975, start of the '65xx brand', means this was written in 2008, making it 14 years out of date.
That website redirects you to a newer WDC website, which contains a revised statement: "Through the last 30+ years as one of the most popular microprocessor architectures of all time the 65xx brand is estimated to have over six billion embedded 65xx processors shipped and is growing by hundreds of millions of units per year, provided by WDC and its licensees."
The relevant text on that page looks like a rehash of the original site's text. The '30+ years' looks like a rehash of the '33 years', aimed to make it timeless so they don't have to worry about changing the website. So it's also not proven to be current and is likely out of date.
All in all, there needs to be better evidence that the 65C02/65xx family sells these quantities per annum, either in parts or as licenced IP. Or the statement's wrong and should be removed - not just removing the quantities but also the claim of popularity and any volumes. ToaneeM ( talk) 11:23, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
The article mentions a very specific bug that was introduced into the 65C02 that wasn't present in the original NMOS version. Does that bug remain in samples manufactured today or was it fixed at some point? I've added a Citation Needed tag because if the bug persists it will be documented somewhere. 87.75.117.183 ( talk) 05:31, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Why the change? In short: because <company name> <processor name>, where <company name> belongs to the originating company, is the de facto standard for microprocessor articles in WKP. Note that this also applies to processors which are/have been second-sourced (i.e., manufactured by one or more companies other than the originating one). -- Wernher 14:48, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
This is a wrongheaded decision. The 65C02 is a family of related designs: any suggestion they are licensed derivates of WDC's particular design should be supported by citations. The presumption should otherwise be that the designs were independent implementations in CMOS of the 6502 instruction set, with enhancements. This article may mention WDC's specific choices but should not elevate them as definitive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.64.214 ( talk) 16:14, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
The datasheet's link on 65xx.com seems to be dead. --Thomas, 4:02pm, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I've checked the datasheet for the G65SC02 [1] and it seems the TSB and TRB instructions were not removed, and that only RMB, SMB, BBR and BBS were removed. I've updated the article accordingly. -- StuartBrady 20:58, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
The power consumption is listed at 150uA, which I presume is supposed to mean 150 microamps. However, following the link for uA directs to nanoamps. A nanoamp would be written as nA, not uA. Shall I assume it's supposed to be microamps? What is the source on this anyway? Mofoburrell ( talk) 22:29, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I suggest merging the stubby article W65C02S into the WDC 65C02 article. The "W65C02S" is a kind of "WDC 65C02", and I think the similarities and minor differences between all the kinds of "WDC 65C02" can easily be covered in this one article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.124.33 ( talk) 15:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
The given frequencies for the Apple II models are slightly incorrect. They don't run at 1.023 MHz but at 1.020484... MHz, i.e. 65 machine cycles per 228 cycles of the NTSC color carrier frequency. I'd correct it myself if the article wasn't locked. -- 77.187.133.27 ( talk) 09:11, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Is this microprocessor still in use? I am not technically minded enough to know, but I ran into this circuit from this page:
/info/en/?search=Transistor_count
It shows that it has had an updated manufacturing process in 2009 using the 0.22 µm process. Thus it appears that it is still being manufactured - but the "Notable uses" section only lists ancient products such as the Apple II. Does anybody know what this is still being used for? And is it still used in large quantities? Thanks in advance to anybody who knows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Betathetapi545 ( talk • contribs) 09:30, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
This section is very inaccurate and confusing.
The first paragraph starts with "variation on indirect addr. mode" but describes a direct addressing mode. Furthermore, the (zp,y) mode did not exist. I suppose the author meant "LDA $12,Y". But then the statement "Unfortunately, this was the only way to load data from the ZP" would be wrong, since most ALU instructions worked with ZP and Absolute addressing modes.
The 3rd paragraph is also incorrect, as the original 6502 also included a (zp),y postindexed mode. In fact it was the only indirect addressing mode that was used regularly on the C64.
The 4th paragraph is also incorrect. The JMP instruction was updated with (absolute,X). The JSR instruction was not affected. There was no JMP or JSR (zp,x) on the original 6502.
All these comments can easily be verified with any copy of the original 6502 and 65C02 datasheets (widely available on the internet).
I suggest a complete rewrite.
DiederikH ( talk) 18:28, 7 September 2019 (UTC) [1] [2] [3]
References
Development began in 1981[a] when it was known as the 65802.
That is untrue.
Evidently, whomever wrote that into the article completely misread the reference source. That source did not say the 65C02 was named the 65802. The 65C802 designation was given to the 65C816 when packaged for use in 65(C)02 circuits. The 65C02 was never referred to as "65802" at any point in its development.
The 65C02 design commenced shortly after Bill Mensch founded the Western Design Center in 1978—the 'C02 was WDC's first product. Mensch is the sole patent-holder on the 65C02 design, with Rockwell and others acting as second-sources. Functional product was available through distribution in late 1982—I bought one at the time to try out in a Commodore 8024 computer—and Apple started purchasing 65C02s in 1984 to power the Apple IIC and later the IIE. As soon as the 65C02 had gone into production, Mensch (and his sister) commenced design work on the 65C816.
Although the commonly-repeated story is one where Apple wanted the 65C816 and that is why it was developed, the fact of the matter is Mensch already had the 65C816's design worked out and realized he needed a (relatively) high-volume application for the processor in order to proceed. It so happened that Apple was looking to develop a "poor-man's MacIntosh" and when Mensch learned about their plan he pitched the 65C816. Steve Wozniak revealed in January 1985 that they were looking at the 65816. The result was the Apple IIGS, which went into production in 1986.
The 65C802 came later on, after WDC had amortized the costs of developing the 65C816. The 65C802 is essentially a 65C816 die in a package that is pin-compatible with the 65C02. No bank address is emitted by the 65C802 and it lacks the ABORT input, as well as the VDA and VPA outputs of the '816—the latter two are replaced by SYNC. Also, the Rockwell RMB, SMB, BBR and BBS instructions are missing in the 65C802 (and in the 65C816).
Many Apple IIE owners upgraded their machines with the 65C02 or 65C802. IIC owners often removed the 65C02 and replaced it with a 65C816.
The 65C02 core is currently used in embedded applications, including heart pacers and defibrillators. Estimated usage of the 65C02 in discrete and ASIC forms is over 100 million units per year.
216.152.18.132 ( talk) 07:39, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
Atari was the first, for many years the ONLY and by far the LARGEST (by number of units sold) user of 65C02 processors, dwarfing the combined sales of all the other systems mentioned here COMBINED.
Abkedefghi ( talk) 13:47, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Abkedefghi: The Atari machines did not use the 65C02, they used the 6502C. That is a slightly modified version of the original MOS 6502, and has nothing to do with the topic of this article. Maury Markowitz ( talk) 23:21, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
This section needs some attention. There is at least one incorrect statement in it concerning STP, and the description of how the WAI instruction behaves following an SEI instruction is not particularly understandable. It might be worth looking at the 6502 interrupts article (can't recall the exact title), which has some discussion about STP and WAI.
216.152.18.132 ( talk) 06:59, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
The 6502 article talks about the 65C02 in its opening text. It claims that the 65C02/65xx family continues to be widely used, with "with estimated production volumes in the hundreds of millions".
The linked reference is to the Western Design Centre website. The actual paragraph there says: "...Annual volumes in the hundreds (100's) of millions of units keep adding in a significant way to the estimated shipped volumes of five (5) to ten (10) billion units. With 200MHz+ 8-bit W65C02S and 100MHz+ 8/16-bit W65C816S processors coming on line in ASIC and FPGA forms, we see these annual volumes continuing for a long, long time. The 65xx brand is probably the only processor family that has remained loyal to its ISA over the last 33 years."
The last 33 years since 1975, start of the '65xx brand', means this was written in 2008, making it 14 years out of date.
That website redirects you to a newer WDC website, which contains a revised statement: "Through the last 30+ years as one of the most popular microprocessor architectures of all time the 65xx brand is estimated to have over six billion embedded 65xx processors shipped and is growing by hundreds of millions of units per year, provided by WDC and its licensees."
The relevant text on that page looks like a rehash of the original site's text. The '30+ years' looks like a rehash of the '33 years', aimed to make it timeless so they don't have to worry about changing the website. So it's also not proven to be current and is likely out of date.
All in all, there needs to be better evidence that the 65C02/65xx family sells these quantities per annum, either in parts or as licenced IP. Or the statement's wrong and should be removed - not just removing the quantities but also the claim of popularity and any volumes. ToaneeM ( talk) 11:23, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
The article mentions a very specific bug that was introduced into the 65C02 that wasn't present in the original NMOS version. Does that bug remain in samples manufactured today or was it fixed at some point? I've added a Citation Needed tag because if the bug persists it will be documented somewhere. 87.75.117.183 ( talk) 05:31, 16 November 2022 (UTC)