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(inserted for talk page structure and readability ... said: Rursus ( mbork³) 09:25, 30 September 2009 (UTC))
If there's no objection, I'm going to move this back to Volapuk. The "language" disambiguator is unnatural with languages that have their own names, rather than being derived adjectives (and thus don't have anything to disambiguate against!) -- Brion 19:28 Sep 23, 2002 (UTC)
De Gaulle said something about volapuk, (really !) I should verify where and when.... Réf : http://www.dna.fr/dna/pflimlin/4431_0.html
It has some pejorative sense in France since... Mainly used for European Affairs and mainly by anti-europeans the abominable Jean-Marie Le Pen use it sometimes.
Could someone translate the links in (presumably) Volapük at the bottom of the article? This is an English article, after all... -- cprompt
I have a question about Volapük I believe should be addressed in the article: is the a in Volapük connective, or genitive, or what?
"There are an estimated 20-30 Volapük speakers in the world today."
Can this number be correct? Should it not be 20-30 THOUSAND?
An earlier version of the article had this sentence:
After adding notes on other large collections, I removed the note about IEM having the largest collection, because another source (the Esperanto Wikipedia article on Esperanto libraries) claimed that CDELI had the largest Volapük collection. If anyone can confirm that one claim or the other is true, we can note which has the largest collection.
I posted on the Volapük listgroup asking about this but have no reply yet. -- Jim Henry 18:55, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
A little research in their websites suggests that the Österreichische Nationalbibliothek collection (Vienna) has more listed titles relating to Volapük (ca. 100 to 60 in CDSLI). But I'm not sure they've got everything in their internet archives, and the ONB search engine (TROVANTO) is often unavailable. It may be worthwhile to visit both places once and compare. Sérgio Meira 00:42 27 Oct 2006
194.230.21.229 added a link to a nonexistent article Volapük - A great name for a brilliant idea to the external links section. I removed it. My guess is this person was trying to link to an external page and wasn't sure how. If you want to add an article on that theme, think about whether it fits Wikipedia's neutral point-of-view rules. Maybe you should instead add more text (in neutral tone) to this article about the advantages of Volapük over other languages? -- Jim Henry 20:05, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
From Johann Martin Schleyer:
From the article:
Unless God is a semi-literate German peasant, which is inconsistent with Catholic dogma, at least one of the accounts is wrong.
In some stage, Volapuk used Fraktur-like versions of the vowels instead of umlauts.
That is not exactly true. At some point (I think before the second Volapük congress), Schleyer actually came up with the idea of inventing new letters to replace ä, ö, and ü -- a, o, and u with a little 'dent' on the right side that gave them the aspect of the old German "Frakturschrift" -- but it was not really Fraktur. It reminded me more of those Vietnamese vowels with little hooks and mustaches (marking different tonal contours). Sérgio Meira 01:52 27 Oct 2006
Somebody moved this page around to places like User:Ambush Commander/Mover and Volapük language. I've put it back at Volapük where it belongs and cleaned up the redirects (except for User:Ambush Commander/Mover, not sure what that's supposed to be...) -- Brion 19:33, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
I revised this
as it seemed to be an exaggeration. Not all speakers of Volapük are also speakers of Esperanto, and certainly not all of them are "Esperantists" in the sense of being active in the Esperanto movement. Also, there is indeed a continuous though sometimes tenuous tradition in the Volapük speaker community. -- Jim Henry 17:20, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Lang Maker says Volapuk has a Lexicon size of 1569.. does this mean it has just 1596 words, or am I just misunderstanding something? Could someone please explain? Thanks Loserdog 3000 16:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't know where that figure came from, but it has to be way underestimated. Of the Vlapük-English dictionaries I have on my hard disk, one has 35K entries (some are duplicate German and English definitions of the same word, some are phrases rather than single words) and another, more carefully edited, has 6K entries, but can not be regarded as complete. Possibly there were 1596 root words in the earliest edition of Schleyer's Vp, but that's just a guess about where the figure came from -- more likely someone looked at a mini-glossary online and picked that figure. -- Jim Henry 17:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation, I was wondering how such a successful language managed to take off and have large conferences etc with such a small vocabulary. It'd be more like a pidgen! (Or I thought I'd misunderstood the word Lexicon!) Loserdog 3000 18:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that's clearly an understatement. Speaking from memory, Arie de Jong's new dictionary has about 200 pages (in the Volapük-German section) with about 40 words per page; that gives you already 8000 words. If you remember that his Volapükagased pro Nedänapükans kept publishing "Vöds Nulik" (New Words) for quite a while, and that he had compiled about 10 further lists (which the Volapükagased kept mentioning were available for anybody interested in copying them), I'd say the currently sanctioned, cannonical Volapük vocabulary certainly goes beyond 10,000 words. (In the Volapük group new words are still often proposed and accepted; I have myself recently proposed -- and had the joy of seeing it accepted -- the word "plutod" as the Volapük name of the (ex-)planet Pluto, which hadn't been discovered in Arie de Jong's days... Sérgio Meira 01:42 27 Oct 2006
The version of the Our Father given here is *not* in 1931-style Volapük (Arie De Jong's Volapük Perevidöl): it is actually in the original, Schleyerian form of Volapük. This should be changed!
In Danish, the word "volapyk" (y is pronounced ü in Danish) means "nonsense"! Very few Danes know the origin of this, and they laugh when they are shown a Dictionarly of Volapük (akin to "The Concise Dictionary of English-Nonsense, Nonsense-English").
- Same in Norwegian, too.
The article says a verb can be inflected 1,584 ways, but this site (in External Links) says it can be 505,440. Quite a large difference. 68.145.207.92 00:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Can anybody translate and grammatically analise the following words: löpikalarevidasekretel and klonalitakipafablüdacifalöpasekretan
Thanks
I've added a trivia section-- Pontoppidan 18:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I've added the reference to volapük in William Gibson's new novel Spook Country, to the trivia section. Perhaps it should be in a section like "use in literature" or something. I was also going to add this paragraph, but thought it might be too speculative, commentary: "It is not known whether Gibson revised the origins (and dropped the umlaut) for literary effect or because he received incorrect information from someone. Perhaps someone familiar with texting / SMS culture in Russia could comment on the use of volapük in texting in that country. As far as I know, as well, the Russians did NOT have trouble with Cyrillic keyboards/screens as they developed their own systems very early on. Perhaps the reference is more to cell phone/texting culture and history? Again, a person familiar with the history of SMS in Russia could verify this - did volapük see a resurgence with the early GSM phones? I suspect if it did this would be long past, as Cyrillic is fully supported on phones text messages now. -- Richard Smith 20:35, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Have any of you seen the text on top of the page saying: «For the French avant-garde rock band, see Volapuk. For the ASCII translitteration of the Cyrillic alphabet, see Volapuk encoding.»? I've you read volapuk encoding article, you'll understand what Gibson wrote. -- 83.34.179.45 16:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
If the language only has 25-30 speakers, how does the Volapuk Wikipedia have 70,000+ articles? That's almost 3,000 articles per speaker! 74.234.38.56 17:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Somebody should stop the Volapük Wikipedia from growing so fast! More than 95% of arcticle are stubs!!! User:CDHgrün —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.102.5.92 ( talk) 15:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Please do 'xplain: "synonyme", "ethymologically".
Thank You,
[[ hopiakuta Please do
sign your
signature on your
message.
~~
Thank You. -]]
09:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
The article may say something about why did the language became popular toward the end of 19. century.
A curiosities section in a Czech language daily Pražský ilustrovaný kurýr from April 1, 1898 cites from a Swiss revue "Suisse", from article by Ernst? Naville about the recent international languages. The revue says that the most common use for Volapük was to conduct business communication and that Volapük was used by about 2,000 companies employing on 13,000 people. Perhaps the small business owners considered it as a viable alternative. Pavel Vozenilek ( talk) 00:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
The article says: "Other phonemes difficult for non-Europeans (such as ö /ø/ and ü /y/) remain common." This statement is not factual. These phonemes remain common in Volapük, but they are not "difficult for non-Europeans". Maybe what is meant, is that these sounds are difficult for some people, which could be said of many other sounds too. In fact, these sounds and sounds similar to them occurr commmonly not only in most Germanic languages (including English dialects) and French, but also for instance in most Turkic and Sino-Tibetan languages, which makes them in fact very commonly (and easily) pronounced across vast stretches of the earth by many millions of people! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.84.28.248 ( talk) 09:50, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
The article claims that there are estimated to be 20 speakers, but the link is wrong. It goes to an irrelevant story. I fear a hoax.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 21:59, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
That Volapük has about 20 more or less fluent speakers in the world is sort of common knowledge among people interested in constructed languages. I know a few of them. The Vükiped has a few regular editors, and there is a Yahoo! group where most of the traffic is in Volapük. Of course, in the case of a constructed language it's hard to say what exactly qualifies a person as a speaker. Volapük has no native speakers. Those who can speak it have learned it at some point. But how well must someone know it to be acknowledged as a speaker? I think the number of 20 speakers is on the safe side, but I'm inclined to believe that actually there must be a lot more. Regards, — IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 09:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the bit that says "ay/oy/uy" are acceptable alternatives to "ä/ö/ü", on the grounds that there's neglible evidence that they are. They are definitely illegal in Revised Volapük, and until someone can find proof that they were allowed in Classical Volapük, I don't think we should make the claim here.
I should add that the problem with adding those y's is that it can change the meaning of a word. For example, in revised Vp, "glidö" means "hello", but "glidoy" means "one greets" !! Custardslice7 ( talk) 19:07, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm starting to be fond of Volapük, because it is so anti all other pathetical Intauxlangs claiming:
all the same providing an informal non-formulated syntactical grammar, that the poor language learner can read about nowhere but have to guess!! Now, it seems the 1931 deJong reformed Volapük deteriorated the language from the original originality. I would rather add circa 10 cases and make flexing forms to make it more forceful. ... said: Rursus ( mbork³) 16:58, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
What Volapük version do the Vükipedia peruse? I couldn't find anything about it anywhere. ... said: Rursus ( mbork³) 16:58, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
In association to the above discussion on number of speakers: there are no proof that there are any "speakers" at all, but there seems to be at least 2 or 3 pretty fluent writers in Volapük. The language evokes more interest than f.ex. Novial, comparing facebook memberships of Volapük vs. Novial gives 63 vs. 39, there are at least a few pretty fluent writers, and everything else is fuzzy, unclear, disguised and pretty unknown. ... said: Rursus ( mbork³) 10:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The fact that the Volapuk Wikipedia has x number of articles is not relevant to the language. [EDIT:Well it is relevant if a reliable third party reference discusses it specifically in reference to Volapuk]. Since Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, and the vast majority of the Volapuk Wikipedia's articles are bot created, the fact that it has a certain number of articles is not something to be noted in this article. Further, that fact is not from a reliable third party reference. (See WP:V) Finally, how about bringing it to the talk page first, instead of reverting? Good faith edits should be left and discussed, not reverted just because. - Taxman Talk 15:55, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
Isn't the number of these languages in fact two? Can't we just say "two"?
When a tribe is discovered living under a tree in the Amazon and using Volapük to mean gibberish, the paragraph can be changed to read "three".
99.237.143.219 (
talk)
16:37, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
(inserted for talk page structure and readability ... said: Rursus ( mbork³) 09:25, 30 September 2009 (UTC))
If there's no objection, I'm going to move this back to Volapuk. The "language" disambiguator is unnatural with languages that have their own names, rather than being derived adjectives (and thus don't have anything to disambiguate against!) -- Brion 19:28 Sep 23, 2002 (UTC)
De Gaulle said something about volapuk, (really !) I should verify where and when.... Réf : http://www.dna.fr/dna/pflimlin/4431_0.html
It has some pejorative sense in France since... Mainly used for European Affairs and mainly by anti-europeans the abominable Jean-Marie Le Pen use it sometimes.
Could someone translate the links in (presumably) Volapük at the bottom of the article? This is an English article, after all... -- cprompt
I have a question about Volapük I believe should be addressed in the article: is the a in Volapük connective, or genitive, or what?
"There are an estimated 20-30 Volapük speakers in the world today."
Can this number be correct? Should it not be 20-30 THOUSAND?
An earlier version of the article had this sentence:
After adding notes on other large collections, I removed the note about IEM having the largest collection, because another source (the Esperanto Wikipedia article on Esperanto libraries) claimed that CDELI had the largest Volapük collection. If anyone can confirm that one claim or the other is true, we can note which has the largest collection.
I posted on the Volapük listgroup asking about this but have no reply yet. -- Jim Henry 18:55, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
A little research in their websites suggests that the Österreichische Nationalbibliothek collection (Vienna) has more listed titles relating to Volapük (ca. 100 to 60 in CDSLI). But I'm not sure they've got everything in their internet archives, and the ONB search engine (TROVANTO) is often unavailable. It may be worthwhile to visit both places once and compare. Sérgio Meira 00:42 27 Oct 2006
194.230.21.229 added a link to a nonexistent article Volapük - A great name for a brilliant idea to the external links section. I removed it. My guess is this person was trying to link to an external page and wasn't sure how. If you want to add an article on that theme, think about whether it fits Wikipedia's neutral point-of-view rules. Maybe you should instead add more text (in neutral tone) to this article about the advantages of Volapük over other languages? -- Jim Henry 20:05, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
From Johann Martin Schleyer:
From the article:
Unless God is a semi-literate German peasant, which is inconsistent with Catholic dogma, at least one of the accounts is wrong.
In some stage, Volapuk used Fraktur-like versions of the vowels instead of umlauts.
That is not exactly true. At some point (I think before the second Volapük congress), Schleyer actually came up with the idea of inventing new letters to replace ä, ö, and ü -- a, o, and u with a little 'dent' on the right side that gave them the aspect of the old German "Frakturschrift" -- but it was not really Fraktur. It reminded me more of those Vietnamese vowels with little hooks and mustaches (marking different tonal contours). Sérgio Meira 01:52 27 Oct 2006
Somebody moved this page around to places like User:Ambush Commander/Mover and Volapük language. I've put it back at Volapük where it belongs and cleaned up the redirects (except for User:Ambush Commander/Mover, not sure what that's supposed to be...) -- Brion 19:33, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
I revised this
as it seemed to be an exaggeration. Not all speakers of Volapük are also speakers of Esperanto, and certainly not all of them are "Esperantists" in the sense of being active in the Esperanto movement. Also, there is indeed a continuous though sometimes tenuous tradition in the Volapük speaker community. -- Jim Henry 17:20, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Lang Maker says Volapuk has a Lexicon size of 1569.. does this mean it has just 1596 words, or am I just misunderstanding something? Could someone please explain? Thanks Loserdog 3000 16:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't know where that figure came from, but it has to be way underestimated. Of the Vlapük-English dictionaries I have on my hard disk, one has 35K entries (some are duplicate German and English definitions of the same word, some are phrases rather than single words) and another, more carefully edited, has 6K entries, but can not be regarded as complete. Possibly there were 1596 root words in the earliest edition of Schleyer's Vp, but that's just a guess about where the figure came from -- more likely someone looked at a mini-glossary online and picked that figure. -- Jim Henry 17:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation, I was wondering how such a successful language managed to take off and have large conferences etc with such a small vocabulary. It'd be more like a pidgen! (Or I thought I'd misunderstood the word Lexicon!) Loserdog 3000 18:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that's clearly an understatement. Speaking from memory, Arie de Jong's new dictionary has about 200 pages (in the Volapük-German section) with about 40 words per page; that gives you already 8000 words. If you remember that his Volapükagased pro Nedänapükans kept publishing "Vöds Nulik" (New Words) for quite a while, and that he had compiled about 10 further lists (which the Volapükagased kept mentioning were available for anybody interested in copying them), I'd say the currently sanctioned, cannonical Volapük vocabulary certainly goes beyond 10,000 words. (In the Volapük group new words are still often proposed and accepted; I have myself recently proposed -- and had the joy of seeing it accepted -- the word "plutod" as the Volapük name of the (ex-)planet Pluto, which hadn't been discovered in Arie de Jong's days... Sérgio Meira 01:42 27 Oct 2006
The version of the Our Father given here is *not* in 1931-style Volapük (Arie De Jong's Volapük Perevidöl): it is actually in the original, Schleyerian form of Volapük. This should be changed!
In Danish, the word "volapyk" (y is pronounced ü in Danish) means "nonsense"! Very few Danes know the origin of this, and they laugh when they are shown a Dictionarly of Volapük (akin to "The Concise Dictionary of English-Nonsense, Nonsense-English").
- Same in Norwegian, too.
The article says a verb can be inflected 1,584 ways, but this site (in External Links) says it can be 505,440. Quite a large difference. 68.145.207.92 00:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Can anybody translate and grammatically analise the following words: löpikalarevidasekretel and klonalitakipafablüdacifalöpasekretan
Thanks
I've added a trivia section-- Pontoppidan 18:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I've added the reference to volapük in William Gibson's new novel Spook Country, to the trivia section. Perhaps it should be in a section like "use in literature" or something. I was also going to add this paragraph, but thought it might be too speculative, commentary: "It is not known whether Gibson revised the origins (and dropped the umlaut) for literary effect or because he received incorrect information from someone. Perhaps someone familiar with texting / SMS culture in Russia could comment on the use of volapük in texting in that country. As far as I know, as well, the Russians did NOT have trouble with Cyrillic keyboards/screens as they developed their own systems very early on. Perhaps the reference is more to cell phone/texting culture and history? Again, a person familiar with the history of SMS in Russia could verify this - did volapük see a resurgence with the early GSM phones? I suspect if it did this would be long past, as Cyrillic is fully supported on phones text messages now. -- Richard Smith 20:35, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Have any of you seen the text on top of the page saying: «For the French avant-garde rock band, see Volapuk. For the ASCII translitteration of the Cyrillic alphabet, see Volapuk encoding.»? I've you read volapuk encoding article, you'll understand what Gibson wrote. -- 83.34.179.45 16:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
If the language only has 25-30 speakers, how does the Volapuk Wikipedia have 70,000+ articles? That's almost 3,000 articles per speaker! 74.234.38.56 17:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Somebody should stop the Volapük Wikipedia from growing so fast! More than 95% of arcticle are stubs!!! User:CDHgrün —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.102.5.92 ( talk) 15:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Please do 'xplain: "synonyme", "ethymologically".
Thank You,
[[ hopiakuta Please do
sign your
signature on your
message.
~~
Thank You. -]]
09:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
The article may say something about why did the language became popular toward the end of 19. century.
A curiosities section in a Czech language daily Pražský ilustrovaný kurýr from April 1, 1898 cites from a Swiss revue "Suisse", from article by Ernst? Naville about the recent international languages. The revue says that the most common use for Volapük was to conduct business communication and that Volapük was used by about 2,000 companies employing on 13,000 people. Perhaps the small business owners considered it as a viable alternative. Pavel Vozenilek ( talk) 00:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
The article says: "Other phonemes difficult for non-Europeans (such as ö /ø/ and ü /y/) remain common." This statement is not factual. These phonemes remain common in Volapük, but they are not "difficult for non-Europeans". Maybe what is meant, is that these sounds are difficult for some people, which could be said of many other sounds too. In fact, these sounds and sounds similar to them occurr commmonly not only in most Germanic languages (including English dialects) and French, but also for instance in most Turkic and Sino-Tibetan languages, which makes them in fact very commonly (and easily) pronounced across vast stretches of the earth by many millions of people! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.84.28.248 ( talk) 09:50, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
The article claims that there are estimated to be 20 speakers, but the link is wrong. It goes to an irrelevant story. I fear a hoax.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 21:59, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
That Volapük has about 20 more or less fluent speakers in the world is sort of common knowledge among people interested in constructed languages. I know a few of them. The Vükiped has a few regular editors, and there is a Yahoo! group where most of the traffic is in Volapük. Of course, in the case of a constructed language it's hard to say what exactly qualifies a person as a speaker. Volapük has no native speakers. Those who can speak it have learned it at some point. But how well must someone know it to be acknowledged as a speaker? I think the number of 20 speakers is on the safe side, but I'm inclined to believe that actually there must be a lot more. Regards, — IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 09:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the bit that says "ay/oy/uy" are acceptable alternatives to "ä/ö/ü", on the grounds that there's neglible evidence that they are. They are definitely illegal in Revised Volapük, and until someone can find proof that they were allowed in Classical Volapük, I don't think we should make the claim here.
I should add that the problem with adding those y's is that it can change the meaning of a word. For example, in revised Vp, "glidö" means "hello", but "glidoy" means "one greets" !! Custardslice7 ( talk) 19:07, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm starting to be fond of Volapük, because it is so anti all other pathetical Intauxlangs claiming:
all the same providing an informal non-formulated syntactical grammar, that the poor language learner can read about nowhere but have to guess!! Now, it seems the 1931 deJong reformed Volapük deteriorated the language from the original originality. I would rather add circa 10 cases and make flexing forms to make it more forceful. ... said: Rursus ( mbork³) 16:58, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
What Volapük version do the Vükipedia peruse? I couldn't find anything about it anywhere. ... said: Rursus ( mbork³) 16:58, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
In association to the above discussion on number of speakers: there are no proof that there are any "speakers" at all, but there seems to be at least 2 or 3 pretty fluent writers in Volapük. The language evokes more interest than f.ex. Novial, comparing facebook memberships of Volapük vs. Novial gives 63 vs. 39, there are at least a few pretty fluent writers, and everything else is fuzzy, unclear, disguised and pretty unknown. ... said: Rursus ( mbork³) 10:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The fact that the Volapuk Wikipedia has x number of articles is not relevant to the language. [EDIT:Well it is relevant if a reliable third party reference discusses it specifically in reference to Volapuk]. Since Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, and the vast majority of the Volapuk Wikipedia's articles are bot created, the fact that it has a certain number of articles is not something to be noted in this article. Further, that fact is not from a reliable third party reference. (See WP:V) Finally, how about bringing it to the talk page first, instead of reverting? Good faith edits should be left and discussed, not reverted just because. - Taxman Talk 15:55, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
Isn't the number of these languages in fact two? Can't we just say "two"?
When a tribe is discovered living under a tree in the Amazon and using Volapük to mean gibberish, the paragraph can be changed to read "three".
99.237.143.219 (
talk)
16:37, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |