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I'm not sure I understand the problem with "titular"; it certainly seems it applies to anyone calling himself "Prince of Naples". "Titular" means "existing in title only;" or "having the title and usually the honors belonging to an office or dignity without the duties, functions, or responsibilities". Clearly "Prince of Naples" is a title only, with no duties, functions, or responsibilities. "Prince of Naples" falsely suggests that Naples is a principality, while "titular Prince of Naples" does not mislead. - Nunh-huh 00:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Lethiere here, and don't think I have anything to add to what he says. Nunh Huh's definition would have to lead to us calling Prince Charles the "titular Prince of Wales," since he does not rule over a Principality of Wales. Even when the Italian monarchy existed, the titles "Prince of Piedmont" and "Prince of Naples" were titular in that sense. Beyond that, as Lethiere says, for royal pretenders, the word "titular" is used in a different sense from how it is used more broadly. Vittorio Emanuele is the titular King of Italy. But former monarchs are generally considered to retain the titles they held under the monarchy. Thus, Vittorio Emanuele's father was still called "King Umberto II" after he was kicked out of the country, and Vittorio Emanuele himself is still called "Prince of Naples." The government of the Italian Republic has banned noble and royal titles, but they don't get to dictate usage, which remains in the traditional place, I think. john k 13:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
As far as I can, there was no real consensus to remove the title. At any rate, I wholly disagree. The treatment that SandyDancer is trying to apply to VE is not symmetrical with all other pretenders. I am going to revert it. Charles 18:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Not true. And it isn't just me that believes that it wrong to refer to VE as Prince of Naples when he isn't. I believe the distinction is that he is a living ex-Royal - when he passes away, he will be referred to on this page as Prince of Naples, which was the highest title that he held during his life. See the Wikipedia guidelines on this, which you no doubt have a view on. Telling readers the subject of this article is Prince of Naples is wrong because he isn't. -- SandyDancer 18:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) guideline gives clear directions on what should be included in an opening paragraph (i.e. before the table of contents). There is no justification for four paragraphs of material here which merely repeats information which is given below at its proper place. Noel S McFerran 13:40, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
The man in the picture doesn't look like Vittorio Emanuele. Compare [4] -- 87.1.70.118 ( talk) 20:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Should we have Vittorio Emanuele presented still as a claimant to the defunct throne of Italy? Are his official declarations not considered a relinquishing of these claims? And, if this is the case, it would be strange to consider the Belgian acknowledgment of his past pretension to be presently valid. __ meco ( talk) 09:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC) He broke the house of rule of asking the king for the right to marry well the king was still alive the king delcare Prince ameado(Who should have became King Ameado I of Itlay) heir so no he not a pretender but he still cliams but he is NOT pretender. ( KingOscarXIX ( talk) 17:54, 31 July 2015 (UTC))
Vittorio Emanuele di Savoia è conosciuto all'interno di ambienti monarchici come principe di Napoli. La Repubblica Italiana non riconosce i titoli nobiliari italiani. Naples is not a principality, of course is impossible to be prince of Naples. Is like to be Prince of New York, Duchess of Buenos Aires or Queen of California. -- 84.120.9.13 ( talk) 04:12, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv ( talk) 11:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Vittorio Emanuele di Savoia → Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples —
He is not a pretender he rights were remove from the his majesty the king ( KingOscarXIX ( talk) 00:27, 21 August 2015 (UTC))
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It should be Victor Emmanuel, Prince of Piedmont, as that was the highest position he held, even if only for about a month. See Alexander, Crown Prince of Yugoslavia for example. GoodDay ( talk) 20:46, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. Looking at similar articles, this is consistent with those. estar8806 ( talk) ★ 00:25, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples → ? – Almost none of the cited sources refer to him this way. A quick look through this article's references shows us he is called simply "Vittorio Emmanuele", "Vittorio Emmanuele di Savoia", and "Prince Victor Emmanuel". However, I'm unsure of which of these this should be moved to (if any). estar8806 ( talk) ★ 11:44, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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A news item involving Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 18 June 2006. |
I'm not sure I understand the problem with "titular"; it certainly seems it applies to anyone calling himself "Prince of Naples". "Titular" means "existing in title only;" or "having the title and usually the honors belonging to an office or dignity without the duties, functions, or responsibilities". Clearly "Prince of Naples" is a title only, with no duties, functions, or responsibilities. "Prince of Naples" falsely suggests that Naples is a principality, while "titular Prince of Naples" does not mislead. - Nunh-huh 00:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Lethiere here, and don't think I have anything to add to what he says. Nunh Huh's definition would have to lead to us calling Prince Charles the "titular Prince of Wales," since he does not rule over a Principality of Wales. Even when the Italian monarchy existed, the titles "Prince of Piedmont" and "Prince of Naples" were titular in that sense. Beyond that, as Lethiere says, for royal pretenders, the word "titular" is used in a different sense from how it is used more broadly. Vittorio Emanuele is the titular King of Italy. But former monarchs are generally considered to retain the titles they held under the monarchy. Thus, Vittorio Emanuele's father was still called "King Umberto II" after he was kicked out of the country, and Vittorio Emanuele himself is still called "Prince of Naples." The government of the Italian Republic has banned noble and royal titles, but they don't get to dictate usage, which remains in the traditional place, I think. john k 13:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
As far as I can, there was no real consensus to remove the title. At any rate, I wholly disagree. The treatment that SandyDancer is trying to apply to VE is not symmetrical with all other pretenders. I am going to revert it. Charles 18:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Not true. And it isn't just me that believes that it wrong to refer to VE as Prince of Naples when he isn't. I believe the distinction is that he is a living ex-Royal - when he passes away, he will be referred to on this page as Prince of Naples, which was the highest title that he held during his life. See the Wikipedia guidelines on this, which you no doubt have a view on. Telling readers the subject of this article is Prince of Naples is wrong because he isn't. -- SandyDancer 18:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) guideline gives clear directions on what should be included in an opening paragraph (i.e. before the table of contents). There is no justification for four paragraphs of material here which merely repeats information which is given below at its proper place. Noel S McFerran 13:40, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
The man in the picture doesn't look like Vittorio Emanuele. Compare [4] -- 87.1.70.118 ( talk) 20:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Should we have Vittorio Emanuele presented still as a claimant to the defunct throne of Italy? Are his official declarations not considered a relinquishing of these claims? And, if this is the case, it would be strange to consider the Belgian acknowledgment of his past pretension to be presently valid. __ meco ( talk) 09:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC) He broke the house of rule of asking the king for the right to marry well the king was still alive the king delcare Prince ameado(Who should have became King Ameado I of Itlay) heir so no he not a pretender but he still cliams but he is NOT pretender. ( KingOscarXIX ( talk) 17:54, 31 July 2015 (UTC))
Vittorio Emanuele di Savoia è conosciuto all'interno di ambienti monarchici come principe di Napoli. La Repubblica Italiana non riconosce i titoli nobiliari italiani. Naples is not a principality, of course is impossible to be prince of Naples. Is like to be Prince of New York, Duchess of Buenos Aires or Queen of California. -- 84.120.9.13 ( talk) 04:12, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv ( talk) 11:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Vittorio Emanuele di Savoia → Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples —
He is not a pretender he rights were remove from the his majesty the king ( KingOscarXIX ( talk) 00:27, 21 August 2015 (UTC))
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It should be Victor Emmanuel, Prince of Piedmont, as that was the highest position he held, even if only for about a month. See Alexander, Crown Prince of Yugoslavia for example. GoodDay ( talk) 20:46, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. Looking at similar articles, this is consistent with those. estar8806 ( talk) ★ 00:25, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples → ? – Almost none of the cited sources refer to him this way. A quick look through this article's references shows us he is called simply "Vittorio Emmanuele", "Vittorio Emmanuele di Savoia", and "Prince Victor Emmanuel". However, I'm unsure of which of these this should be moved to (if any). estar8806 ( talk) ★ 11:44, 7 September 2023 (UTC)