![]() | Virtual band was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 8 January 2015 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
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![]() | Inclusion of artists in
Notable groups section
A concensus was reached concerning the inclusion of various groups in this section. It is suggested that a brief justification is given in the
Edit Summary for the group's inclusion; if there is not enough room, give your reason on this talk page. Note that if supporting justification is not given, it may—and most likely will—be deleted.
Johannsenn Adder |
'Chipmunks, ... and now playing their own instruments'
Somehow I doubt that ;) Morwen - Talk 08:29, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
(Removed mistaken post. Tony 04:33, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Weren't they puppets and not animated characters? Sorry if I'm being dense here... -- Dvyost 23:50, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
The article should probably mention the Japanese virtual idoru pop stars.
I had only ever heard these bands referred to as "cartoon bands", so I had difficulty locating this article. I only found it by first going to the Gorillaz page. Is there any support for creating a page for "Cartoon band" which redirects to this one? DavidMann 11:53, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Either this page is totally wrong, or The Archies and Sugar, Sugar are wrong. The latter pages seem pretty convincing, so I would suggest this page be editted. -- TheMightyQuill 13:03, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Or you could watch both and also confirm through a secondary source *before* adding it. Crazytonyi ( talk) 07:19, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
i felt as though the greasy moose, which is one of my favourite flash toons, deserved a mention, particularly because of the mocumentary "my penis is evil". I'd even say they take the concept of virtual band a bit further than most, as they try to develop their characters beyond a mere gimmick.
There was a virtual group called Binky on the childrens' / PBS show Arthur
I think "cartoon band" should have a separate entry from "virtual band". While a "cartoon band" is considered "virtual", it is only one of the several type of virtual bands that are now present on TV or the Internet. Several of the bands stated here are presented in several forms other than two-dimensional illustations while being perfectly "virtual" in nature (e.g. Mistula, Bratz Rock Angels, Crazy Frog). The term "Virtual group" is also vague, as it may refer to a group who may not be musical in nature.
The terms in this article should be redefined for it to be a proper resource material.
Okay, the article has been rewritten. Feel free to comment on it, and tell me what you think of it. -- JB Adder | Talk 01:43, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Disclaimer: Please go easy on me, since I'm not trying to troll; at worst, start a debate. I'm a wikipedia noobie, so I could be totally off base ;)
There are very few references cited that, as I understand it, can be construed as establishing a reliable/creditable history. The Guiness Book entry seems to be the only one out of the list, and one might argue against it's credibility in establishing history - I think it is more of an auxillary reference.
Additionally, parts of the descriptions on the page leave the concept extremely open to interpretation. Particularly in offense are the groups chosen to be cited as references, and the part about the term meaning "bands that collaborate over the Internet". What is the definition of a band? Animation? Virtual?
Should Daft Punk be counted, since they always in disguises/costumes that hide their identity? How about "The Beets" on the TV show Doug, should they be considered a band? How about Spinal Tap, are they a band? Does a virtual band have to have it's members be far-spread (members across the country/world), or can any normal band be virtual, through animation, etc (animation, etc)? Does a virtual band have to always exist in a virtual form or pretend that the virtual form is the only form, or would a dual form/occasional virtualization suffice (e.g. the Beck puppet shows)? Can a band be virtual if any one of the members is hiding their identity (e.g. the propensity for cross-dressing in Visual Kei)? Can a band be virtual if all the music performed on studio albums are created by one musician, and the remaining credited musicians only fill in during live shows (e.g. Boston, allegedly The Smashing Pumpkins, maybe NIN - not sure)?
I admit that several of my points and examples are far-fetched, and several also don't fit every one of the criteria listed at the top section of the page. However, they make a point of how flexible the definition can be if it isn't strictly defined, or if examples cited don't strictly fit (e.g. Crazy Frog, The Monkees).
Due to the lack of creditable references cited, seeming lack of factual history, and the broad definition given, the Virtual Band concept seems to fit the definition of a neologism. Much of the entry also seems to be (at least partially) original research. Is the concept of a "virtual band" just a marketing scheme for the band Gorillaz, and maybe a limited few bands before them?
At the very least, I think the article should be cleaned up to remove speculation/original research. Maybe it should instead define the concept, then cite it as a marketing scheme, possibly citing which bands have actually used it, and removing references to bands that fit the definition, but have not used the term. I would tag it, though I'm not sure how to do so, or confident in exactly which tags should be used =) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.16.34.241 ( talk • contribs) 21:1, 1 December 2006 (UTC).
A virtual band... is any group whose members... etc
Crazy Frog, being only one character, and having no other "virtual band" members clearly doesn't fit into the classification or description of a virtual band. The people behind the Crazy Frog music (Bass Bumpers) are a duo/group but they're real, not virtual, so that still doesn't make the Crazy Frog a group. 172.142.62.222 20:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm a member of the band VLB (virtual live band). I think we are a better example of a virtual band because we are not in the same place when we play. After reading this, i wonder if we are the only band that does this on a regular basis...see - Virtual Live Band for more info on us and let me know what you think...i wanted to edit this article but didn't think it would be right talking about a band i'm in. I do wonder if another article should/could be written with the title "Virtual Live Band" ??? That's what i searched in Wiki and how i found this article. I did leave links to our band. If anyone wants to write a new article i would be more than glad to help.
Jokerwitht 09:27, 3 June 2007 (UTC)Joker
Hi there, Jokerwitht. Re: your band, VLB, while it is true that the members are not in the same place when you play, I'm afraid that is not the only criteria to be considered a virtual band. Please refer to the subhead "What isn't a virtual band", particularly these lines:
"Some bands...have used animation and cartooning techniques in clips and related media, depicting themselves as cartoon characters (in your case, avatars in secondlife). While their appearances in these forms of visual media can make them seem virtual, the fact that they are animated representations of real-life people immediately discounts them from being a true virtual band."
Your band would more properly belong to the entry "internet band" where "members collaborate online through broadband by utilizing a content management system and local digital audio workstations...without ever meeting face to face." I see your band is already listed on that separate Wiki entry, so it's all well and good.
Thanks.
-- Mister Kwiki 08:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
I mean, he's not as mainstream as say the Gorillaz, but he has released a music CD, and had a song featured in Guitar Hero II. In addition, The Cheat and Strong Sad have done work for real bands like TMBG.-- Fang Teng 06:58, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Is the book "Rocklopedia Fakebandica". Chubbles 02:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Were not they one of the biggest bands to fit this description? I always thought of Gorillaz as kind of following the lead of Green Jelly. Also, unrelated, another virtual band not mentioned here is Gem, but since they were really just a Saturday morning cartoon, I'm not sure if they'd fit the definition. Green Jelly, though... seems like they should be a prime example, no? TragiCore ( talk) 19:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
The 1980's were largely free of virtual groups. It wouldn't be until the early 1990's, when the Chipmunks, updated to fit with the more contemporary setting, and now playing their own instruments, released a CD of covers to accompany the new show, that virtual bands would begin to make a comeback.
This paragraph mis-states the fact that the updated Alvin and the Chipmunks Saturday morning cartoon actually ran through the 80s and started going to direct-to-video movies in the 90s. It also overlooks such groups as Jem, the California Raisins, and Kidd Video, all of which ran during the 80s. And I know I'm forgetting a few others. Granted, the Raisins and Kidd Video (if memory serves) almost exclusively did covers, but so did the Electric Mayhem. And starting with the 1983 show, so did (and still do) the Chipmunks.
I know there's a difference between "largely free" and "completely devoid." But that's the message this paragraph puts across. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.19.75.25 ( talk) 07:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
See Internet band for more information on this phenomenon.
I think it is redundant to have this link on the page a second time. Although I can see how it nicely fits into the article, it still doesn't look right there. I removed it for this reason. If someone feels that it needs to be there it could be put back. Although, I think if this is done it should be done in a more aesthetically pleasing manner,
Perhaps the sentence could be re-written so that the article could be linked to in the sentence itself rather than coming after the sentence? Zell Faze ( talk) 20:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Nothing against Christian contemporary music but it looks like a mom and pop indie shop. If there is such a thing as the first Christian virtual band it could be the cast of Veggie Tales I suppose —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.193.112.62 ( talk) 05:18, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
I know of one band, Deathmøle - currently listed on the List of fictional music groups page, that only exists in the songs the cartoonist ( Jeph Jacques) releases and as referenced (not appearing) in his comic strip Questionable Content. Does this count as a virtual band? Blackfyr ( talk) 08:23, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
There are long history of the animated groups/singers in Japan,and numerous groups/singers commertially succeeded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MatreshkaB ( talk • contribs) 17:05, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
It lists one band, and has no reference. The text is "*MAY* to be released on Winter 2018". It's not even proper english. Should this really be here? 24.180.6.18 ( talk) 15:10, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
I think that the medium of animation (or puppetry) is not as relevant as the idea that the band is a fiction, but the music is not. There are a number of bands that are cartoons that make music, but the music being "trapped" inside the story rather than promoted as in-real-life music, like DeathKlok and Limozine (they have limited album releases, so I suppose it's up for debate), and there are bands in live action fictional format who sell albums in the real world. Examples that immediately come to mind:
Bands that don't fit as well are ones where the personas are exaggerations of the real band members or aren't completely fictional and confined to the fictional world. Bands like Flight of the Conchords and Tenacious D.
Basically it's virtual if the band's history and personalities are fictional constructs that allows these fictional characters to seem real to the audience listening to the music outside of the in-world context. Crazytonyi ( talk) 07:39, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
![]() | Virtual band was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 8 January 2015 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
![]() | This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. |
![]() | Inclusion of artists in
Notable groups section
A concensus was reached concerning the inclusion of various groups in this section. It is suggested that a brief justification is given in the
Edit Summary for the group's inclusion; if there is not enough room, give your reason on this talk page. Note that if supporting justification is not given, it may—and most likely will—be deleted.
Johannsenn Adder |
'Chipmunks, ... and now playing their own instruments'
Somehow I doubt that ;) Morwen - Talk 08:29, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
(Removed mistaken post. Tony 04:33, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Weren't they puppets and not animated characters? Sorry if I'm being dense here... -- Dvyost 23:50, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
The article should probably mention the Japanese virtual idoru pop stars.
I had only ever heard these bands referred to as "cartoon bands", so I had difficulty locating this article. I only found it by first going to the Gorillaz page. Is there any support for creating a page for "Cartoon band" which redirects to this one? DavidMann 11:53, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Either this page is totally wrong, or The Archies and Sugar, Sugar are wrong. The latter pages seem pretty convincing, so I would suggest this page be editted. -- TheMightyQuill 13:03, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Or you could watch both and also confirm through a secondary source *before* adding it. Crazytonyi ( talk) 07:19, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
i felt as though the greasy moose, which is one of my favourite flash toons, deserved a mention, particularly because of the mocumentary "my penis is evil". I'd even say they take the concept of virtual band a bit further than most, as they try to develop their characters beyond a mere gimmick.
There was a virtual group called Binky on the childrens' / PBS show Arthur
I think "cartoon band" should have a separate entry from "virtual band". While a "cartoon band" is considered "virtual", it is only one of the several type of virtual bands that are now present on TV or the Internet. Several of the bands stated here are presented in several forms other than two-dimensional illustations while being perfectly "virtual" in nature (e.g. Mistula, Bratz Rock Angels, Crazy Frog). The term "Virtual group" is also vague, as it may refer to a group who may not be musical in nature.
The terms in this article should be redefined for it to be a proper resource material.
Okay, the article has been rewritten. Feel free to comment on it, and tell me what you think of it. -- JB Adder | Talk 01:43, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Disclaimer: Please go easy on me, since I'm not trying to troll; at worst, start a debate. I'm a wikipedia noobie, so I could be totally off base ;)
There are very few references cited that, as I understand it, can be construed as establishing a reliable/creditable history. The Guiness Book entry seems to be the only one out of the list, and one might argue against it's credibility in establishing history - I think it is more of an auxillary reference.
Additionally, parts of the descriptions on the page leave the concept extremely open to interpretation. Particularly in offense are the groups chosen to be cited as references, and the part about the term meaning "bands that collaborate over the Internet". What is the definition of a band? Animation? Virtual?
Should Daft Punk be counted, since they always in disguises/costumes that hide their identity? How about "The Beets" on the TV show Doug, should they be considered a band? How about Spinal Tap, are they a band? Does a virtual band have to have it's members be far-spread (members across the country/world), or can any normal band be virtual, through animation, etc (animation, etc)? Does a virtual band have to always exist in a virtual form or pretend that the virtual form is the only form, or would a dual form/occasional virtualization suffice (e.g. the Beck puppet shows)? Can a band be virtual if any one of the members is hiding their identity (e.g. the propensity for cross-dressing in Visual Kei)? Can a band be virtual if all the music performed on studio albums are created by one musician, and the remaining credited musicians only fill in during live shows (e.g. Boston, allegedly The Smashing Pumpkins, maybe NIN - not sure)?
I admit that several of my points and examples are far-fetched, and several also don't fit every one of the criteria listed at the top section of the page. However, they make a point of how flexible the definition can be if it isn't strictly defined, or if examples cited don't strictly fit (e.g. Crazy Frog, The Monkees).
Due to the lack of creditable references cited, seeming lack of factual history, and the broad definition given, the Virtual Band concept seems to fit the definition of a neologism. Much of the entry also seems to be (at least partially) original research. Is the concept of a "virtual band" just a marketing scheme for the band Gorillaz, and maybe a limited few bands before them?
At the very least, I think the article should be cleaned up to remove speculation/original research. Maybe it should instead define the concept, then cite it as a marketing scheme, possibly citing which bands have actually used it, and removing references to bands that fit the definition, but have not used the term. I would tag it, though I'm not sure how to do so, or confident in exactly which tags should be used =) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.16.34.241 ( talk • contribs) 21:1, 1 December 2006 (UTC).
A virtual band... is any group whose members... etc
Crazy Frog, being only one character, and having no other "virtual band" members clearly doesn't fit into the classification or description of a virtual band. The people behind the Crazy Frog music (Bass Bumpers) are a duo/group but they're real, not virtual, so that still doesn't make the Crazy Frog a group. 172.142.62.222 20:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm a member of the band VLB (virtual live band). I think we are a better example of a virtual band because we are not in the same place when we play. After reading this, i wonder if we are the only band that does this on a regular basis...see - Virtual Live Band for more info on us and let me know what you think...i wanted to edit this article but didn't think it would be right talking about a band i'm in. I do wonder if another article should/could be written with the title "Virtual Live Band" ??? That's what i searched in Wiki and how i found this article. I did leave links to our band. If anyone wants to write a new article i would be more than glad to help.
Jokerwitht 09:27, 3 June 2007 (UTC)Joker
Hi there, Jokerwitht. Re: your band, VLB, while it is true that the members are not in the same place when you play, I'm afraid that is not the only criteria to be considered a virtual band. Please refer to the subhead "What isn't a virtual band", particularly these lines:
"Some bands...have used animation and cartooning techniques in clips and related media, depicting themselves as cartoon characters (in your case, avatars in secondlife). While their appearances in these forms of visual media can make them seem virtual, the fact that they are animated representations of real-life people immediately discounts them from being a true virtual band."
Your band would more properly belong to the entry "internet band" where "members collaborate online through broadband by utilizing a content management system and local digital audio workstations...without ever meeting face to face." I see your band is already listed on that separate Wiki entry, so it's all well and good.
Thanks.
-- Mister Kwiki 08:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
I mean, he's not as mainstream as say the Gorillaz, but he has released a music CD, and had a song featured in Guitar Hero II. In addition, The Cheat and Strong Sad have done work for real bands like TMBG.-- Fang Teng 06:58, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Is the book "Rocklopedia Fakebandica". Chubbles 02:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Were not they one of the biggest bands to fit this description? I always thought of Gorillaz as kind of following the lead of Green Jelly. Also, unrelated, another virtual band not mentioned here is Gem, but since they were really just a Saturday morning cartoon, I'm not sure if they'd fit the definition. Green Jelly, though... seems like they should be a prime example, no? TragiCore ( talk) 19:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
The 1980's were largely free of virtual groups. It wouldn't be until the early 1990's, when the Chipmunks, updated to fit with the more contemporary setting, and now playing their own instruments, released a CD of covers to accompany the new show, that virtual bands would begin to make a comeback.
This paragraph mis-states the fact that the updated Alvin and the Chipmunks Saturday morning cartoon actually ran through the 80s and started going to direct-to-video movies in the 90s. It also overlooks such groups as Jem, the California Raisins, and Kidd Video, all of which ran during the 80s. And I know I'm forgetting a few others. Granted, the Raisins and Kidd Video (if memory serves) almost exclusively did covers, but so did the Electric Mayhem. And starting with the 1983 show, so did (and still do) the Chipmunks.
I know there's a difference between "largely free" and "completely devoid." But that's the message this paragraph puts across. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.19.75.25 ( talk) 07:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
See Internet band for more information on this phenomenon.
I think it is redundant to have this link on the page a second time. Although I can see how it nicely fits into the article, it still doesn't look right there. I removed it for this reason. If someone feels that it needs to be there it could be put back. Although, I think if this is done it should be done in a more aesthetically pleasing manner,
Perhaps the sentence could be re-written so that the article could be linked to in the sentence itself rather than coming after the sentence? Zell Faze ( talk) 20:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Nothing against Christian contemporary music but it looks like a mom and pop indie shop. If there is such a thing as the first Christian virtual band it could be the cast of Veggie Tales I suppose —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.193.112.62 ( talk) 05:18, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
I know of one band, Deathmøle - currently listed on the List of fictional music groups page, that only exists in the songs the cartoonist ( Jeph Jacques) releases and as referenced (not appearing) in his comic strip Questionable Content. Does this count as a virtual band? Blackfyr ( talk) 08:23, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
There are long history of the animated groups/singers in Japan,and numerous groups/singers commertially succeeded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MatreshkaB ( talk • contribs) 17:05, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
It lists one band, and has no reference. The text is "*MAY* to be released on Winter 2018". It's not even proper english. Should this really be here? 24.180.6.18 ( talk) 15:10, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
I think that the medium of animation (or puppetry) is not as relevant as the idea that the band is a fiction, but the music is not. There are a number of bands that are cartoons that make music, but the music being "trapped" inside the story rather than promoted as in-real-life music, like DeathKlok and Limozine (they have limited album releases, so I suppose it's up for debate), and there are bands in live action fictional format who sell albums in the real world. Examples that immediately come to mind:
Bands that don't fit as well are ones where the personas are exaggerations of the real band members or aren't completely fictional and confined to the fictional world. Bands like Flight of the Conchords and Tenacious D.
Basically it's virtual if the band's history and personalities are fictional constructs that allows these fictional characters to seem real to the audience listening to the music outside of the in-world context. Crazytonyi ( talk) 07:39, 27 October 2018 (UTC)