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While there is certainly no reason to not note (as the article does) that some folks use the term War Between the States, the Civil War is the most commonly used term and is the title (actually American Civil War) of the wikipedia article on the subject. There is no reason why this article should deviate from standard practice and use a different name in a section heading simply because it is about a southern state's role in that war. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 17:42, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
at [ www.dictionary.com]:
readmit - To admit again; to give entrance or access to again. rejoin - to join together again; reunite.
admit defined as "entry", so readmit is synonymous with "reentry".
join is "bind", so rejoin is synonymous with "rebind".
Thus, I basically said Virginia "rejoined" or "rebinded". You say that is not NPOV, and your "readmit" or "reentry" is, because it supposedly doesn't imply that Virginia left. However, Virginia MUST have left if they need to be admitted again, or enter again. Whereas I used rejoined to infer the more sublety of binding again, that is to rebind. Thus the word I used means what you say you want it to mean, but you changed it to a word that you accused me of meaning.
Given the lack of fluency demonstrated, here, in the English language ... please consult some dictionaries before you embark upon future harrassment and provoking edits. And if you want the sentence to mean rebind vice reenter, you'll need to go undo your own goofy edit.
Finally, you might want to check the U.S. Congressional language. You seem to be unaware that acts of Congress were involved approving a NEW constitution for Virginia, as well as other things, so your goofy edit that congressmen were merely readmitted to the Congress is completely out-to-lunch compared to what actually happened historically. This historical fact is required learning for school kids in Virginia's Standards of Learning. It helps to have grown up here, because the locales know the history a little better than those from New York.
Please quit editing in your self-made Pseudo-History into the wiki articles, and go do some research first.
Thank you. Grayghost01 ( talk) 02:09, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Jim, look. The issue is not what Virginia did or didn't do, or what was legal or not legal, or what was an issue or not an issue. The point is that your editing out "rejoin" for "readmit" is petty, pointless, and a complete waste of time. Per your buddy North Shoreman, secession was declared illegal (of course) after the fact. Thus "restore" would be the proper word, eh? What's clear is the two of you have cut swiss cheese holes in what used to be reasonably good and readable articles. The Confederate States of America article is so bad ... it's terrible, thank to you two, who have made it unbearable to read. My eyes water. It's more of a blog on the issue of Slavery than anything else. Please .... I beg you two ... go open up blog sites and blog away. You're ruining the wiki articles. Grayghost01 ( talk) 03:01, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Incredibly, the article did not mention Fort Sumter and had only one mention of slaves or slavery. I have added information that partially remedies these deficiencies. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 12:51, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I want to be very clear. This page is about Virginia. It is not about Lincoln, Fort Sumter, the definition of invade, Lincoln's speeches, blogging on slavery, etc. I will ensure this page stays on topic. Furthermore, I have a revamped version of this in work, which will roll out later anyway, so as we have done in the past, we set certain articles aside to await the revamp. Please go put your materials on some page about Secession, or reasons for secession. You are completely off-topic. If you persist in what you are doing, I will persist even more strongly to claim you are intentionally being vandalistic. Vandalism, in your form, may be subtle and not spray paint ... but it has the same intent. You are purely diversionary, and have no true interest in what the history of Virginia is, nor do you care anything about the state and it's various wiki-pages on its history. Your editing track record confirms that perspective. Please refer to the ACW task force page and find some actual historical work to do. Meanwhile, we don't need 1,000 references to Lincoln and Fort Sumter on every ACW page in existence. Grayghost01 ( talk) 02:39, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
My bottom line. I will cut your material and diatribe on Lincoln, and remove it to one of the many pages on Lincoln. Then perhaps we can add see main article on Lincoln to every page in this series to keep the outline and flow. Then editors in the future can be left scratching their heads over why a see-main is here. Then you can explain the unending argument you are making about blogging on Lincoln here. Grayghost01 ( talk) 00:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
The edit war was commenced by the gentleman from Ohio, who first set to dicing the Winchester article, then the Train Raid article, the CSA article, then this article. I rid the edit-war by chopping all the front end out of the first two, so that the main article itself could be saved. While the background is helpful, it is not necessary. Since the other warring editor wants dozens or hundreds of ACW articles to have his self-composed same front end, I am strongly suggesting that he go edit one of the many Lincoln or secession pages. Then all these other articles can do a "see main" or something like that. As far as Virginia is concerned, this article needs to document what Virginia did. I do not accept the theory that extensive explanation of Lincoln is necessary here, when very redundant to the heavy-dose of other Lincoln pages. Nor do we need to talk about the democratic party, the slavery issue and on and on and on. This is the Virginia page. If there is a SPECIFIC point about slavery in Virginia, or about the Dem Party in Virginia, then fine. If there is a specific letter to/from the Lincoln administration from Virginia, then fine. But we don't need the emancipation proclamation, and so forth here. Grayghost01 ( talk) 02:57, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
If the two of you continue in your present course, I will continue to report your editing tactics. The two of you had never touched this page before, and only came here to edit after creating disputes over trivial matters, such as when Arizona seceded (failing to read even the materials further down on that page and five others). I predict you have no intent to discuss or cooperate. As such, we shall leave the article the way it was, prior to your placement of trivia on the page. So, if you want to discuss things, begin here. Another reversion will not be seen as an attempt to discuss anything. Grayghost01 ( talk) 03:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I have expanded this section to add reaction to the single greatest immediate source of tension -- the election of Abraham Lincoln (which was not mentioned at all). I also provided details on the nature of the split in the Democratic Party since without this split there never would have been a convention in Richmond. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 22:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Please, I urge you, to remove your contributions to pages on Lincoln, Secession, American Civil War, and put in reference links to the "main" article. If you carry forth with your particular method, then every single page on a Southern state would need the IDENTICAL intro. Thus we would have a dozen or so of these LINCOLN-discussions that you are so hot and heavy to ram into these pages. Rather ... allow all the Southern state pages to reference to a Lincoln and the War article for further information. In fact, such page exists, and you have ignored (or possibly overlooked) when I have pointed this out several times. Your methodology makes for a poor framework from an encyclopedia perspective, in that the same information is required to be duplicated over and over again. Thus, for example, I REMOVED such front-end material from the Great Train Raid of 1861, because a quotation of Lincoln's documents is just simply out of place on an article which MERELY needs to cover the raid and basic background leading up to that. Please do some reading on Wiki formats, article construction, layouts, and other guides to get further understanding on this. And finally, again, I urge you to consider your own Conflict-of-Interest as you continuously trump-edit out a local Virginia historian, while you reside up on the lovely shores of Northern Ohio. It's not that you can't have contribution on Virginia, if needed ... but sir ... why are you doing this? I have the view that your edits bring down the quality of this page, just as they have brought down the quality on other high-level ACW topics. Sincerely, Grayghost01 ( talk) 03:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I disagree. Many historical Virginia texts discuss the reaction of the state government to the call for troops and center on this event, and the letter and reaction from not only the governor, but from the convention. Certainly the battle at Fort Sumter was a key event for everyone and the whole country, but that can be covered adequately elsewhere. This article is about Virginia in the Civil War, not South Carolinal. You started this whole affair with a blatant and false accusation about NPOV because of the word "invade" being in an article in material I likely composed. That is personal invective. When I pointed out the extensive use of this word in wiki alone (ex: Invasion of Normandy you did not concede the point, but kept on attacking. Finally, adding "solid, reliable sources" is not the sole end of a good wiki article. The material must be germane, in context, and true in what it says. Finally, it seems to me in reviewing your contributions and areas you edit, that you are on a crusade of inserting or over-citing your views of Lincoln and what you consider to be the causes of the ACW. Your sudden editing interest on this article is an example. Grayghost01 ( talk) 22:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
So, are you saying the article does NOT need to mention Lincoln's call for arms THREE times? Btw, the Evans ref is very incomplete-- JimWae ( talk) 00:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I added a paragraph to the start of this section to start fleshing out some details. The existing article was over-simplistic in its failure to demonstrate the shifting opinions over the course of the debate --there was much more to it than on April 4 they voted against secession and then on April 17 they voted for it. The material I just added takes the debate to the early part of March. The next paragraph or two that needs to be added will describe the report of the Federal Relations Committee and its fourteen proposals -- proposals that were generally understood to be requirements in order for Virginia to remain in the Union.
The decisions made by Virginia in early 1861 were some of the most significant in shaping the way the war would play out. The statement in the existing article that"The strong pro-Union sentiment in Virginia began to alter after the April 12..." is very misleading -- the unionist sentiment expressed in the original election of delegates had been eroding for about seven weeks before the attack on Fort Sumter. The material is relevant, and this article is the most logical place to locate this material. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 22:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Scott Mingus, for restoring the lead; I was about to post a message that this article needs a lead! Would somebody please disambiguate the link in this part "The first being the Battle of Manassas and the last being..." in the 2nd paragraph of the section [[Virginia in the American Civil War#Virginia during the war|Virginia during the war; the link from "Battle of Manassas" here goes to a disambiguation page; please change it to go directly to the page for the appropriate battle (the first battle of Bull Run?) Thanks. Actually, since that disambiguation page has only two links on it, I suggest making it a redirect to one of the two battles, and just having a hatnote at the top of that page saying "Battle of Bull Run and Battle of Manassas redirect here. For the second battle, see Second Battle of Bull Run." In that way, the article itself acts as a disambiguation page. I think it's normal to do it that way when there are only two items, so that about half the readers will get to the page they want immediately rather than getting to a disambiguation page first. ☺ Coppertwig ( talk) 12:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
The parentheticals (known as "Bull Run" in Northern naming convention) are entirely unnecessary. The links go to the correct pages. It is typical in wiki for renaming like that to fit the context. In this case, both Virginia and the Federal Govt call these "Manassas" and "Manassas Battlefield", etc. All highway signs, maps, tourist brochures, etc use that naming convention. Any foreigner wanting to tour, if they read Wiki, would easily become confused. Overall this article is in very bad shape, and has gotten worse, likely since I made a minor edit of some sort, attracting a barrage of Lincoln and Fort Sumter material to be inserted in a way to hype the cause of the war as a whole. When I tried to balance this quasi-vandalism with the actual and very historical letter exchange between Governor Letcher and Sec. Cameron .... yet another obscure quote of some editor was inserted in the ugly brown box on the right. The proposals adopted by the Virginia convention, which went nowhere, do not rise to the level of detail this article should be at ... much less someone's opinions on thoses proposals. This article should stick to what actually happened in the history of Virginia in the Civil War. It's already noted that Virginians attempted the peace conference, and that's basically enough. If there is a separate article JUST on the Virginia secession convention, that extraneous material might, then, be appropriate.
Grayghost has presented information suggesting that it was solely the calling of the militia that led to secession. I have added (1) sourced material documenting the spontaneous support generated by the attack on Fort Sumter and (2) quote from Ayers balancing the significance of perceived federal coercion with Virginia's concern for slavery (as evidenced by the resolutions adopted by the convention. The Ayers' quote is required in order to present an alternative POV to the Evans' quote that Letcher's "reply to that call wrought an immediate change in the current of public opinion in Virginia." In fact, public opinon had been changing ever since the selection of delegates, and I have provided sourced material to reflect that change over time.
Rather than simply deleting competing POVs, as Grayghost has done and has threatened to do again, I am simply adding material while leaving his material in place. More work is still needed to document the convention debate and I will be adding that shortly. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 11:28, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
The list of Civil War figures from Virginia should include those who fought for the United States:
George Thomas, Union Major General Elizabeth van Lew, Union spy
In general, this article does not mention any of the many thousands of Virginians who loyally served the United States during this struggle. One of my own ancestors, Jesse Weakley from Stanley, Virginia (in Page Co.), fought in the Union Army and died during the war (a family legend says, at the hands of his brother, who was a bandit/partisan who occasionally supported the Confederacy). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stewart king ( talk • contribs) 20:56, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
There are problems with the west Virginia section that I tried to fix. It is much too long and detailed for an article on Virginia, and it misses key legal and military issues. Rjensen ( talk) 01:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
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The #West Virginia Splits section has a couple of misstatements sourced to Richard Orr Curry’s “A House Divided: a study of statehood politics and the Copperhead movement in West Virginia” (1964) at the University of Pittsburg Press, ISBN 978-0-8229-8389-7. First of all, Congress did seat the Restored government of Virginia Representatives and U.S. Senators in the 37th United States Congress. Then in the 38th United States Congress Congress sat Virginia Senators, but not Representatives when it no longer represented 30-40% of the Virginian population of 1860, but was more nearly 10% in the remnant following the creation of West Virginia. My 1913 edition of the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress includes them for the 37th Congress on page 224. Martis, Kenneth C.; et al. (1989). The Historical Atlas of Political Parties in the United States Congress, 1789-1989. New York: Macmillan Publishing Company. ISBN 0-02-920170-5 includes them.
Additionally, articles can be found currently online in the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress for the following Virginia delegation in the 37th Congress 1861-1863 elected under the Restored Virginia Government: U.S. Senator Waitman T. Willey, U.S. Senator John S. Carlile, and Representatives William G. Brown, Jacob B. Blair, Kellian V. Whaley.
Charles H. Upton, from Fairfax and Loudoun Counties, served almost a year1861-1862 before Congress determined he was not entitled to his seat on being appointed consul to Switzerland, replaced by elected Lewis McKenzie, and Joseph E. Segar was also elected for the 37th Congress, though Segar from the Eastern Shore was initially not seated.
Without objection, I will correct the errors. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 18:29, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
David Farragut made his home as an adult in Norfolk, Virginia prior to the American Civil War, having married a Virginian. He believed secession to be treason, as did many in Norfolk, but that does not exclude him from admission to the Article gallery of Notable Civil War leaders (Union) from Virginia. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 10:52, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Is there a reason why the Battle of Brandy Station is not mentioned in section 5? -- Couprie ( talk) 08:13, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Is that quote even necessary from William Thompson. I don’t see how it aids the entry at all. I think it would be relevant only if it had been stated by a government official at the convention.
A letter from a random citizen to his family member seems like a poor source. Woodlanddog ( talk) 18:10, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
It says something like: Capital: Richmond Largest City: Richmond So, why not change it into: Capital and largest city: Richmond 2605:8D80:327:A9A:E8E4:EE4A:F0D2:536 ( talk) 22:13, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
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While there is certainly no reason to not note (as the article does) that some folks use the term War Between the States, the Civil War is the most commonly used term and is the title (actually American Civil War) of the wikipedia article on the subject. There is no reason why this article should deviate from standard practice and use a different name in a section heading simply because it is about a southern state's role in that war. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 17:42, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
at [ www.dictionary.com]:
readmit - To admit again; to give entrance or access to again. rejoin - to join together again; reunite.
admit defined as "entry", so readmit is synonymous with "reentry".
join is "bind", so rejoin is synonymous with "rebind".
Thus, I basically said Virginia "rejoined" or "rebinded". You say that is not NPOV, and your "readmit" or "reentry" is, because it supposedly doesn't imply that Virginia left. However, Virginia MUST have left if they need to be admitted again, or enter again. Whereas I used rejoined to infer the more sublety of binding again, that is to rebind. Thus the word I used means what you say you want it to mean, but you changed it to a word that you accused me of meaning.
Given the lack of fluency demonstrated, here, in the English language ... please consult some dictionaries before you embark upon future harrassment and provoking edits. And if you want the sentence to mean rebind vice reenter, you'll need to go undo your own goofy edit.
Finally, you might want to check the U.S. Congressional language. You seem to be unaware that acts of Congress were involved approving a NEW constitution for Virginia, as well as other things, so your goofy edit that congressmen were merely readmitted to the Congress is completely out-to-lunch compared to what actually happened historically. This historical fact is required learning for school kids in Virginia's Standards of Learning. It helps to have grown up here, because the locales know the history a little better than those from New York.
Please quit editing in your self-made Pseudo-History into the wiki articles, and go do some research first.
Thank you. Grayghost01 ( talk) 02:09, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Jim, look. The issue is not what Virginia did or didn't do, or what was legal or not legal, or what was an issue or not an issue. The point is that your editing out "rejoin" for "readmit" is petty, pointless, and a complete waste of time. Per your buddy North Shoreman, secession was declared illegal (of course) after the fact. Thus "restore" would be the proper word, eh? What's clear is the two of you have cut swiss cheese holes in what used to be reasonably good and readable articles. The Confederate States of America article is so bad ... it's terrible, thank to you two, who have made it unbearable to read. My eyes water. It's more of a blog on the issue of Slavery than anything else. Please .... I beg you two ... go open up blog sites and blog away. You're ruining the wiki articles. Grayghost01 ( talk) 03:01, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Incredibly, the article did not mention Fort Sumter and had only one mention of slaves or slavery. I have added information that partially remedies these deficiencies. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 12:51, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I want to be very clear. This page is about Virginia. It is not about Lincoln, Fort Sumter, the definition of invade, Lincoln's speeches, blogging on slavery, etc. I will ensure this page stays on topic. Furthermore, I have a revamped version of this in work, which will roll out later anyway, so as we have done in the past, we set certain articles aside to await the revamp. Please go put your materials on some page about Secession, or reasons for secession. You are completely off-topic. If you persist in what you are doing, I will persist even more strongly to claim you are intentionally being vandalistic. Vandalism, in your form, may be subtle and not spray paint ... but it has the same intent. You are purely diversionary, and have no true interest in what the history of Virginia is, nor do you care anything about the state and it's various wiki-pages on its history. Your editing track record confirms that perspective. Please refer to the ACW task force page and find some actual historical work to do. Meanwhile, we don't need 1,000 references to Lincoln and Fort Sumter on every ACW page in existence. Grayghost01 ( talk) 02:39, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
My bottom line. I will cut your material and diatribe on Lincoln, and remove it to one of the many pages on Lincoln. Then perhaps we can add see main article on Lincoln to every page in this series to keep the outline and flow. Then editors in the future can be left scratching their heads over why a see-main is here. Then you can explain the unending argument you are making about blogging on Lincoln here. Grayghost01 ( talk) 00:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
The edit war was commenced by the gentleman from Ohio, who first set to dicing the Winchester article, then the Train Raid article, the CSA article, then this article. I rid the edit-war by chopping all the front end out of the first two, so that the main article itself could be saved. While the background is helpful, it is not necessary. Since the other warring editor wants dozens or hundreds of ACW articles to have his self-composed same front end, I am strongly suggesting that he go edit one of the many Lincoln or secession pages. Then all these other articles can do a "see main" or something like that. As far as Virginia is concerned, this article needs to document what Virginia did. I do not accept the theory that extensive explanation of Lincoln is necessary here, when very redundant to the heavy-dose of other Lincoln pages. Nor do we need to talk about the democratic party, the slavery issue and on and on and on. This is the Virginia page. If there is a SPECIFIC point about slavery in Virginia, or about the Dem Party in Virginia, then fine. If there is a specific letter to/from the Lincoln administration from Virginia, then fine. But we don't need the emancipation proclamation, and so forth here. Grayghost01 ( talk) 02:57, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
If the two of you continue in your present course, I will continue to report your editing tactics. The two of you had never touched this page before, and only came here to edit after creating disputes over trivial matters, such as when Arizona seceded (failing to read even the materials further down on that page and five others). I predict you have no intent to discuss or cooperate. As such, we shall leave the article the way it was, prior to your placement of trivia on the page. So, if you want to discuss things, begin here. Another reversion will not be seen as an attempt to discuss anything. Grayghost01 ( talk) 03:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I have expanded this section to add reaction to the single greatest immediate source of tension -- the election of Abraham Lincoln (which was not mentioned at all). I also provided details on the nature of the split in the Democratic Party since without this split there never would have been a convention in Richmond. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 22:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Please, I urge you, to remove your contributions to pages on Lincoln, Secession, American Civil War, and put in reference links to the "main" article. If you carry forth with your particular method, then every single page on a Southern state would need the IDENTICAL intro. Thus we would have a dozen or so of these LINCOLN-discussions that you are so hot and heavy to ram into these pages. Rather ... allow all the Southern state pages to reference to a Lincoln and the War article for further information. In fact, such page exists, and you have ignored (or possibly overlooked) when I have pointed this out several times. Your methodology makes for a poor framework from an encyclopedia perspective, in that the same information is required to be duplicated over and over again. Thus, for example, I REMOVED such front-end material from the Great Train Raid of 1861, because a quotation of Lincoln's documents is just simply out of place on an article which MERELY needs to cover the raid and basic background leading up to that. Please do some reading on Wiki formats, article construction, layouts, and other guides to get further understanding on this. And finally, again, I urge you to consider your own Conflict-of-Interest as you continuously trump-edit out a local Virginia historian, while you reside up on the lovely shores of Northern Ohio. It's not that you can't have contribution on Virginia, if needed ... but sir ... why are you doing this? I have the view that your edits bring down the quality of this page, just as they have brought down the quality on other high-level ACW topics. Sincerely, Grayghost01 ( talk) 03:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I disagree. Many historical Virginia texts discuss the reaction of the state government to the call for troops and center on this event, and the letter and reaction from not only the governor, but from the convention. Certainly the battle at Fort Sumter was a key event for everyone and the whole country, but that can be covered adequately elsewhere. This article is about Virginia in the Civil War, not South Carolinal. You started this whole affair with a blatant and false accusation about NPOV because of the word "invade" being in an article in material I likely composed. That is personal invective. When I pointed out the extensive use of this word in wiki alone (ex: Invasion of Normandy you did not concede the point, but kept on attacking. Finally, adding "solid, reliable sources" is not the sole end of a good wiki article. The material must be germane, in context, and true in what it says. Finally, it seems to me in reviewing your contributions and areas you edit, that you are on a crusade of inserting or over-citing your views of Lincoln and what you consider to be the causes of the ACW. Your sudden editing interest on this article is an example. Grayghost01 ( talk) 22:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
So, are you saying the article does NOT need to mention Lincoln's call for arms THREE times? Btw, the Evans ref is very incomplete-- JimWae ( talk) 00:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I added a paragraph to the start of this section to start fleshing out some details. The existing article was over-simplistic in its failure to demonstrate the shifting opinions over the course of the debate --there was much more to it than on April 4 they voted against secession and then on April 17 they voted for it. The material I just added takes the debate to the early part of March. The next paragraph or two that needs to be added will describe the report of the Federal Relations Committee and its fourteen proposals -- proposals that were generally understood to be requirements in order for Virginia to remain in the Union.
The decisions made by Virginia in early 1861 were some of the most significant in shaping the way the war would play out. The statement in the existing article that"The strong pro-Union sentiment in Virginia began to alter after the April 12..." is very misleading -- the unionist sentiment expressed in the original election of delegates had been eroding for about seven weeks before the attack on Fort Sumter. The material is relevant, and this article is the most logical place to locate this material. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 22:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Scott Mingus, for restoring the lead; I was about to post a message that this article needs a lead! Would somebody please disambiguate the link in this part "The first being the Battle of Manassas and the last being..." in the 2nd paragraph of the section [[Virginia in the American Civil War#Virginia during the war|Virginia during the war; the link from "Battle of Manassas" here goes to a disambiguation page; please change it to go directly to the page for the appropriate battle (the first battle of Bull Run?) Thanks. Actually, since that disambiguation page has only two links on it, I suggest making it a redirect to one of the two battles, and just having a hatnote at the top of that page saying "Battle of Bull Run and Battle of Manassas redirect here. For the second battle, see Second Battle of Bull Run." In that way, the article itself acts as a disambiguation page. I think it's normal to do it that way when there are only two items, so that about half the readers will get to the page they want immediately rather than getting to a disambiguation page first. ☺ Coppertwig ( talk) 12:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
The parentheticals (known as "Bull Run" in Northern naming convention) are entirely unnecessary. The links go to the correct pages. It is typical in wiki for renaming like that to fit the context. In this case, both Virginia and the Federal Govt call these "Manassas" and "Manassas Battlefield", etc. All highway signs, maps, tourist brochures, etc use that naming convention. Any foreigner wanting to tour, if they read Wiki, would easily become confused. Overall this article is in very bad shape, and has gotten worse, likely since I made a minor edit of some sort, attracting a barrage of Lincoln and Fort Sumter material to be inserted in a way to hype the cause of the war as a whole. When I tried to balance this quasi-vandalism with the actual and very historical letter exchange between Governor Letcher and Sec. Cameron .... yet another obscure quote of some editor was inserted in the ugly brown box on the right. The proposals adopted by the Virginia convention, which went nowhere, do not rise to the level of detail this article should be at ... much less someone's opinions on thoses proposals. This article should stick to what actually happened in the history of Virginia in the Civil War. It's already noted that Virginians attempted the peace conference, and that's basically enough. If there is a separate article JUST on the Virginia secession convention, that extraneous material might, then, be appropriate.
Grayghost has presented information suggesting that it was solely the calling of the militia that led to secession. I have added (1) sourced material documenting the spontaneous support generated by the attack on Fort Sumter and (2) quote from Ayers balancing the significance of perceived federal coercion with Virginia's concern for slavery (as evidenced by the resolutions adopted by the convention. The Ayers' quote is required in order to present an alternative POV to the Evans' quote that Letcher's "reply to that call wrought an immediate change in the current of public opinion in Virginia." In fact, public opinon had been changing ever since the selection of delegates, and I have provided sourced material to reflect that change over time.
Rather than simply deleting competing POVs, as Grayghost has done and has threatened to do again, I am simply adding material while leaving his material in place. More work is still needed to document the convention debate and I will be adding that shortly. Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 11:28, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
The list of Civil War figures from Virginia should include those who fought for the United States:
George Thomas, Union Major General Elizabeth van Lew, Union spy
In general, this article does not mention any of the many thousands of Virginians who loyally served the United States during this struggle. One of my own ancestors, Jesse Weakley from Stanley, Virginia (in Page Co.), fought in the Union Army and died during the war (a family legend says, at the hands of his brother, who was a bandit/partisan who occasionally supported the Confederacy). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stewart king ( talk • contribs) 20:56, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
There are problems with the west Virginia section that I tried to fix. It is much too long and detailed for an article on Virginia, and it misses key legal and military issues. Rjensen ( talk) 01:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
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The #West Virginia Splits section has a couple of misstatements sourced to Richard Orr Curry’s “A House Divided: a study of statehood politics and the Copperhead movement in West Virginia” (1964) at the University of Pittsburg Press, ISBN 978-0-8229-8389-7. First of all, Congress did seat the Restored government of Virginia Representatives and U.S. Senators in the 37th United States Congress. Then in the 38th United States Congress Congress sat Virginia Senators, but not Representatives when it no longer represented 30-40% of the Virginian population of 1860, but was more nearly 10% in the remnant following the creation of West Virginia. My 1913 edition of the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress includes them for the 37th Congress on page 224. Martis, Kenneth C.; et al. (1989). The Historical Atlas of Political Parties in the United States Congress, 1789-1989. New York: Macmillan Publishing Company. ISBN 0-02-920170-5 includes them.
Additionally, articles can be found currently online in the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress for the following Virginia delegation in the 37th Congress 1861-1863 elected under the Restored Virginia Government: U.S. Senator Waitman T. Willey, U.S. Senator John S. Carlile, and Representatives William G. Brown, Jacob B. Blair, Kellian V. Whaley.
Charles H. Upton, from Fairfax and Loudoun Counties, served almost a year1861-1862 before Congress determined he was not entitled to his seat on being appointed consul to Switzerland, replaced by elected Lewis McKenzie, and Joseph E. Segar was also elected for the 37th Congress, though Segar from the Eastern Shore was initially not seated.
Without objection, I will correct the errors. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 18:29, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
David Farragut made his home as an adult in Norfolk, Virginia prior to the American Civil War, having married a Virginian. He believed secession to be treason, as did many in Norfolk, but that does not exclude him from admission to the Article gallery of Notable Civil War leaders (Union) from Virginia. TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 10:52, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Is there a reason why the Battle of Brandy Station is not mentioned in section 5? -- Couprie ( talk) 08:13, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Is that quote even necessary from William Thompson. I don’t see how it aids the entry at all. I think it would be relevant only if it had been stated by a government official at the convention.
A letter from a random citizen to his family member seems like a poor source. Woodlanddog ( talk) 18:10, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
It says something like: Capital: Richmond Largest City: Richmond So, why not change it into: Capital and largest city: Richmond 2605:8D80:327:A9A:E8E4:EE4A:F0D2:536 ( talk) 22:13, 25 December 2022 (UTC)