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Report on twitter that vinnay says his place of birth has been defaced.
https://twitter.com/VPrasadMDMPH/status/1303082134911897601?s=19 Polc1410 ( talk) 22:12, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
SpecterMD has now twice tried to insert content citing material saying Vinay Prasad's opinions on vaccine mandates are not antisemitic. This would be fine, except the source is one also containing an argument that they are. Our current content "doesn't go there" and discusses Prasad's musings about vaccines and the Third Reich without going into a consideration of antisemitism. I think if Wikipedia is going to start going into this topic it needs to be fair, and probably better sources are probably needed that opinions pieces and a reported tweet. I also note SpecterMD has been asked (by me) about a potential COI with Prasad, but has not yet responded; this needs to be cleared-up as a priority. Alexbrn ( talk) 17:20, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
That being said Alexbrn, do I have your consent to rm the tag, and we can re-insert it then if the problematic puffery persists? ♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 14:31, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
As Dr. Prasad is a highly controversial minority voice in the debate around the COVID pandemic, it might be worth reviewing the way this article frames his qualifications as an epidemiologist.
The opening paragraph correctly identifies him as an associate professor (in the Department) of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the UCSF Medical School. (E&B is one of the school’s 28 departments, not two separate ones.) However, of 337 papers cited on his website, only two appeared in the Journal of clinical epidemiology, and even they are themed around biostats and study methodology, which seems to be his primary area of interest (apart from Twitter). [1]
Leading with this spare wording could give a reader the impression that he is an expert in epidemiology, specifically, and thus a peer in the academic debate around COVID policy, an impression that needs to be documented if true or downplayed here if not. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle, that he is highly qualified to comment on COVID matters as a biostatistician and a dogged investigator of reversals in clinical recommendations, but not as expert in epidemiology as the top guns at that top medical school, making him more of a “near outsider”. Barbicels ( talk) 23:21, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
I recently added the following at the very bottom of the "Views and reception" section of this article:
In an interview from March 21, 2022 with libertarian-leaning Reason magazine's Zach Weissmueller, Prasad discussed his views regarding various potential harms of masking on children, especially those for which COVID-19 might play a lesser risk than those with pre-existing conditions or the elderly. Prasad mentions what he sees as "learning loss" as well as his perceived social harms of mask mandates as examples of why he believes that policy makers should be more judicious in deciding when and where not to use masking as a pandemic mitigation tool. In the interview, Prasad was most adamantly opposed to mandates of any kind as it relates to masking, and was also vehemently opposed to mandatory COVID-19 lockdowns. [1]
As you can see. I cited the above from from a reliable source and simply took from the interview of Zach Weissmueller and presented Prasad's views as presented in the interview. Nothing about the above constitutes "original research" as Alexbrn claims. Nothing about the above states that Prasad is right or wrong, and is written in a wiki-speak neutral tone-of-voice. Furthermore, I attribute the source as "libertarian-leaning" since it is coming from Reason magazine which is known as such. I will make any reasonable edits to the above in order to re-insert the above text. Or anyone else may feel free to do the same. This being reverted because of the WP:OR reasoning has yet to have justification explained, but if there is another reason, I am all ears. In the interest of avoiding an edit-war, I am taking this to the talk page as Alexbrn suggested I do before re-inserting the above text, as is, or revised per anyone's suggestions. Thank you. ♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 13:52, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
References
Prasad, who spoke with Reason about the failure of lockdowns, overzealous mask and vaccine mandates, and unscientific school closures and restrictions on children, says that "groupthink" overtook the medical establishment early in the pandemic and is something physicians, public health officials, and scientists must resist if they're ever to regain the public's trust.♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 14:15, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist. This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources. To demonstrate that you are not adding original research, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented.and then, what is clearly NOT considered "original research,
Despite the need for reliable sources, you must not plagiarize them or violate their copyrights. Rewriting source material in your own words while retaining the substance is not considered original research.Pay special attention to that last part, but I quoted in full so as not to truncate or take anything out of context, "Rewriting source material in your own words while retaining the substance is not considered original research." In fact, not only is my contribution not OR, but I wrote in the manner that is required as an aspect of any constructive contribution to the encyclopedia—otherwise we risk plagiarism. I added nothing, no synthesis, or POV. If you believe otherwise, then please tell me what the source I cited is saying in your own words, and maybe we can include it in your preferred language. Otherwise I believe I am justified in re-adding the segment as originally written from a NPOV. If you do not like the source or the content, that is another matter, because it is part of the approved list of RS'es on Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. ♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 15:41, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Th78blue, thanks again for the timestamps and quotes. Having had time to review them, I'm still seeing content in your proposed language that is not supported. I'd prefer not to focus on that, however, as the proposed paragraph's over-reliance on Prasad's interview statements—which are a primary source—is the bigger problem. If you're looking to expand on Prasad's views on COVID-19 public health measures, there's more in the secondary sources that we haven't yet summarized. His opposition to mask and vaccine mandates for children, for example, could be supported by an already used The Cancer Letter source. Firefangledfeathers ( talk | contribs) 21:23, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
Alexbrn, I would remind you of Wikipedia:Civility please. I have been polite. Meanwhile you bring up "sticks" and now call my contributions "fluff" and "fringe." I do not appreciate your tone, nor your conduct in the slightest. Thank you. ♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 12:53, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Prasad, who spoke with Reason about the failure of lockdowns, overzealous mask and vaccine mandates, and unscientific school closures and restrictions on children, says that "groupthink" overtook the medical establishment early in the pandemic and is something physicians, public health officials, and scientists must resist if they're ever to regain the public's trust.These are clearly then Reason's words, not Prasad's. Would that work within the confines of what you've outlined Alexbrn? At the very bottom of the "Views and reception" piece? Anyone else have thoughts then on what I mentioned above here as a non-controversial suggested inclusion? Thank you. ♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 14:24, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
David Gorski on
Science-Based Medicine:
[2] Dr. Prasad is, at best, a useful idiot for antivax propagandists or, at worst, now officially antivaccine himself.
--
Hob Gadling (
talk) 17:21, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
See this diff [3]. reference didn't cite anything about him being valedictorian. Also looks like someone else was valedictorian that year? See [4]. It can be re-added if there is a valid reference -- Samir 23:07, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Vinay Prasad article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that a photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Report on twitter that vinnay says his place of birth has been defaced.
https://twitter.com/VPrasadMDMPH/status/1303082134911897601?s=19 Polc1410 ( talk) 22:12, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
SpecterMD has now twice tried to insert content citing material saying Vinay Prasad's opinions on vaccine mandates are not antisemitic. This would be fine, except the source is one also containing an argument that they are. Our current content "doesn't go there" and discusses Prasad's musings about vaccines and the Third Reich without going into a consideration of antisemitism. I think if Wikipedia is going to start going into this topic it needs to be fair, and probably better sources are probably needed that opinions pieces and a reported tweet. I also note SpecterMD has been asked (by me) about a potential COI with Prasad, but has not yet responded; this needs to be cleared-up as a priority. Alexbrn ( talk) 17:20, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
That being said Alexbrn, do I have your consent to rm the tag, and we can re-insert it then if the problematic puffery persists? ♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 14:31, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
As Dr. Prasad is a highly controversial minority voice in the debate around the COVID pandemic, it might be worth reviewing the way this article frames his qualifications as an epidemiologist.
The opening paragraph correctly identifies him as an associate professor (in the Department) of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the UCSF Medical School. (E&B is one of the school’s 28 departments, not two separate ones.) However, of 337 papers cited on his website, only two appeared in the Journal of clinical epidemiology, and even they are themed around biostats and study methodology, which seems to be his primary area of interest (apart from Twitter). [1]
Leading with this spare wording could give a reader the impression that he is an expert in epidemiology, specifically, and thus a peer in the academic debate around COVID policy, an impression that needs to be documented if true or downplayed here if not. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle, that he is highly qualified to comment on COVID matters as a biostatistician and a dogged investigator of reversals in clinical recommendations, but not as expert in epidemiology as the top guns at that top medical school, making him more of a “near outsider”. Barbicels ( talk) 23:21, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
I recently added the following at the very bottom of the "Views and reception" section of this article:
In an interview from March 21, 2022 with libertarian-leaning Reason magazine's Zach Weissmueller, Prasad discussed his views regarding various potential harms of masking on children, especially those for which COVID-19 might play a lesser risk than those with pre-existing conditions or the elderly. Prasad mentions what he sees as "learning loss" as well as his perceived social harms of mask mandates as examples of why he believes that policy makers should be more judicious in deciding when and where not to use masking as a pandemic mitigation tool. In the interview, Prasad was most adamantly opposed to mandates of any kind as it relates to masking, and was also vehemently opposed to mandatory COVID-19 lockdowns. [1]
As you can see. I cited the above from from a reliable source and simply took from the interview of Zach Weissmueller and presented Prasad's views as presented in the interview. Nothing about the above constitutes "original research" as Alexbrn claims. Nothing about the above states that Prasad is right or wrong, and is written in a wiki-speak neutral tone-of-voice. Furthermore, I attribute the source as "libertarian-leaning" since it is coming from Reason magazine which is known as such. I will make any reasonable edits to the above in order to re-insert the above text. Or anyone else may feel free to do the same. This being reverted because of the WP:OR reasoning has yet to have justification explained, but if there is another reason, I am all ears. In the interest of avoiding an edit-war, I am taking this to the talk page as Alexbrn suggested I do before re-inserting the above text, as is, or revised per anyone's suggestions. Thank you. ♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 13:52, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
References
Prasad, who spoke with Reason about the failure of lockdowns, overzealous mask and vaccine mandates, and unscientific school closures and restrictions on children, says that "groupthink" overtook the medical establishment early in the pandemic and is something physicians, public health officials, and scientists must resist if they're ever to regain the public's trust.♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 14:15, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist. This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources. To demonstrate that you are not adding original research, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented.and then, what is clearly NOT considered "original research,
Despite the need for reliable sources, you must not plagiarize them or violate their copyrights. Rewriting source material in your own words while retaining the substance is not considered original research.Pay special attention to that last part, but I quoted in full so as not to truncate or take anything out of context, "Rewriting source material in your own words while retaining the substance is not considered original research." In fact, not only is my contribution not OR, but I wrote in the manner that is required as an aspect of any constructive contribution to the encyclopedia—otherwise we risk plagiarism. I added nothing, no synthesis, or POV. If you believe otherwise, then please tell me what the source I cited is saying in your own words, and maybe we can include it in your preferred language. Otherwise I believe I am justified in re-adding the segment as originally written from a NPOV. If you do not like the source or the content, that is another matter, because it is part of the approved list of RS'es on Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. ♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 15:41, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Th78blue, thanks again for the timestamps and quotes. Having had time to review them, I'm still seeing content in your proposed language that is not supported. I'd prefer not to focus on that, however, as the proposed paragraph's over-reliance on Prasad's interview statements—which are a primary source—is the bigger problem. If you're looking to expand on Prasad's views on COVID-19 public health measures, there's more in the secondary sources that we haven't yet summarized. His opposition to mask and vaccine mandates for children, for example, could be supported by an already used The Cancer Letter source. Firefangledfeathers ( talk | contribs) 21:23, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
Alexbrn, I would remind you of Wikipedia:Civility please. I have been polite. Meanwhile you bring up "sticks" and now call my contributions "fluff" and "fringe." I do not appreciate your tone, nor your conduct in the slightest. Thank you. ♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 12:53, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Prasad, who spoke with Reason about the failure of lockdowns, overzealous mask and vaccine mandates, and unscientific school closures and restrictions on children, says that "groupthink" overtook the medical establishment early in the pandemic and is something physicians, public health officials, and scientists must resist if they're ever to regain the public's trust.These are clearly then Reason's words, not Prasad's. Would that work within the confines of what you've outlined Alexbrn? At the very bottom of the "Views and reception" piece? Anyone else have thoughts then on what I mentioned above here as a non-controversial suggested inclusion? Thank you. ♥ Th78blue ( talk)♥ 14:24, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
David Gorski on
Science-Based Medicine:
[2] Dr. Prasad is, at best, a useful idiot for antivax propagandists or, at worst, now officially antivaccine himself.
--
Hob Gadling (
talk) 17:21, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
See this diff [3]. reference didn't cite anything about him being valedictorian. Also looks like someone else was valedictorian that year? See [4]. It can be re-added if there is a valid reference -- Samir 23:07, 1 October 2022 (UTC)