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I have again reverted the addition of the following to the lead:
Transliteration from modern Vietnamese into chữ Nôm or Han script is highly discouraged, because many words now don't have a Nôm or Chinese counterparts.
While I agree with the sentiment, it is out of place in the lead, which is supposed to be a summary of the key points of the article and an overview of the subject. It is hard to imagine an overview of the language published anywhere else including such a statement.
It reads like a Manual of Style injunction directed at Wikipedia editors in support of edits like this [1]. I would suggest that an appropriate place for it would be somewhere in WP: space. Kanguole 17:46, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
not correct!!! TommyOrVarnt ( talk) 03:15, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
The infobox currently lists China, Czech Republic and Slovakia as countries in which Vietnamese is a recognized minority language. This seems inappropriate:
Kanguole 08:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
...'The movements have also resulted in some blending of dialects and more significantly have made the Northern dialect more easily understood in the South and vice versa..:'
In 1954 million of people from North Vietnam are fled to South Vietnam. Since then the northern dialect is not something new for people in South Vietnam. But for people from North Vietnam moving to the South after 1975, some of them have problem unterstanding the southern dialect.
... Most Southerners, when singing modern/old popular Vietnamese songs or addressing the public, do so in the standardized accent if possible, which uses the Northern pronunciation. That is true in both Vietnam and overseas Vietnamese communities...:
For some unknown historical reason people are singing western-based music almost always in northern dialect.and that before 1975.
... Modern Standard Vietnamese is based on the Hanoi dialect...:
The reason is that the Hanoi regime in Hanoi systematicaly and officially suppresses and bans the southern dialect (written and spoken language) from all public media (Radio, TV, Press) with exception of some talkshows.
In the dictionaries published in Vietnam all southern words are marked as dialectic. All courses for vietnamese language are taught "of course" in northern dialect.That also applies to the courses done by pro-Hanoi regime vietnamese communities abroad.
Note that in South Vietnam before 1975 all 3 dialects are written and spoken in all public media, in all schools, words in dictionaries are just marked as from "North, Central or South", but not dialectic.
All 3 dialects are of the same value in the everyday life of the society of South Vietnam before 1975.
The Hanoi regime just tries to "sell" the northern dialect as an "official language" of Vietnam, even e.g. the letter "R" is spoken as "Z", the letter "D" (pronounced like yes, yellow, in English or ja in German) is spoken as "Z", the letter combination "TR" is spoken as "CH" in northern dialect. As far as I know, northern dialect from Vietnam is the unique dialect ("language" according to the Hanoi regime) in which "R" is pronounced/spoken as "Z". The Hanoi regime forces and dictates to use the northern dialect as the so-called "standard vietnamese language", as a further political step to "erase" the culture of South Vietnam.
The Hanoi regime does not understand that standard languages are not necessarily more logical or frequent than dialects. Often the opposite is the case, because speakers of dialects are less concerned with "correct" or "incorrect" language and therefore tend to use more frequent language/dialect when speaking.
Hence the communist Hanoi regime is committing the murder of the southern dialect, of the southern culture and ultimately the vietnamese culture.
>>> What are the western "intellectuals" saying about the "cultural crime" committed by the Hanoi regime? Beautiful Bavaria ( talk) 17:10, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Vietnamese language article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 180 days |
This
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
I have again reverted the addition of the following to the lead:
Transliteration from modern Vietnamese into chữ Nôm or Han script is highly discouraged, because many words now don't have a Nôm or Chinese counterparts.
While I agree with the sentiment, it is out of place in the lead, which is supposed to be a summary of the key points of the article and an overview of the subject. It is hard to imagine an overview of the language published anywhere else including such a statement.
It reads like a Manual of Style injunction directed at Wikipedia editors in support of edits like this [1]. I would suggest that an appropriate place for it would be somewhere in WP: space. Kanguole 17:46, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
not correct!!! TommyOrVarnt ( talk) 03:15, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
The infobox currently lists China, Czech Republic and Slovakia as countries in which Vietnamese is a recognized minority language. This seems inappropriate:
Kanguole 08:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
...'The movements have also resulted in some blending of dialects and more significantly have made the Northern dialect more easily understood in the South and vice versa..:'
In 1954 million of people from North Vietnam are fled to South Vietnam. Since then the northern dialect is not something new for people in South Vietnam. But for people from North Vietnam moving to the South after 1975, some of them have problem unterstanding the southern dialect.
... Most Southerners, when singing modern/old popular Vietnamese songs or addressing the public, do so in the standardized accent if possible, which uses the Northern pronunciation. That is true in both Vietnam and overseas Vietnamese communities...:
For some unknown historical reason people are singing western-based music almost always in northern dialect.and that before 1975.
... Modern Standard Vietnamese is based on the Hanoi dialect...:
The reason is that the Hanoi regime in Hanoi systematicaly and officially suppresses and bans the southern dialect (written and spoken language) from all public media (Radio, TV, Press) with exception of some talkshows.
In the dictionaries published in Vietnam all southern words are marked as dialectic. All courses for vietnamese language are taught "of course" in northern dialect.That also applies to the courses done by pro-Hanoi regime vietnamese communities abroad.
Note that in South Vietnam before 1975 all 3 dialects are written and spoken in all public media, in all schools, words in dictionaries are just marked as from "North, Central or South", but not dialectic.
All 3 dialects are of the same value in the everyday life of the society of South Vietnam before 1975.
The Hanoi regime just tries to "sell" the northern dialect as an "official language" of Vietnam, even e.g. the letter "R" is spoken as "Z", the letter "D" (pronounced like yes, yellow, in English or ja in German) is spoken as "Z", the letter combination "TR" is spoken as "CH" in northern dialect. As far as I know, northern dialect from Vietnam is the unique dialect ("language" according to the Hanoi regime) in which "R" is pronounced/spoken as "Z". The Hanoi regime forces and dictates to use the northern dialect as the so-called "standard vietnamese language", as a further political step to "erase" the culture of South Vietnam.
The Hanoi regime does not understand that standard languages are not necessarily more logical or frequent than dialects. Often the opposite is the case, because speakers of dialects are less concerned with "correct" or "incorrect" language and therefore tend to use more frequent language/dialect when speaking.
Hence the communist Hanoi regime is committing the murder of the southern dialect, of the southern culture and ultimately the vietnamese culture.
>>> What are the western "intellectuals" saying about the "cultural crime" committed by the Hanoi regime? Beautiful Bavaria ( talk) 17:10, 3 June 2024 (UTC)