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I was wondering if there is like a regional section for videogames, eg. American Video Games, Japanese Video Games, British Video Games, Middle Eastern Video Games.... Well you get my idea. Richardkselby 01:31, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't mean to be a noob (yes,I have heard of NEO-GEO),can you tell me what ut2004 is about thanks.
Everything related to merging video games and computer games, and the proper naming and classification of computerized games has been moved to Moved to: Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and Video Games/Definition dispute — Slike | Talk | 02:33, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Over at Category talk:Computer and video games we're holding a vote to determine if Video games should, from here on out, be an umbrella term for Arcade games, Computer games / PC games and Console games. Head on over and vote! Oberiko 21:51, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Moved this text to here:
This text refers to video game publishers, which is not what this article is about. Nintendo is listed on the video game developer article, which is where it belongs. I'll add Sony to the list there. — Frecklefoot 13:36 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Kudos to Ajbperc for his edit to the General section. It now reads much better and gives a clear description of the distinction between computer games and video games. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 17:51, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a links repository, correct, but I don't understand how deleting quality external links and adding a link to a directory of 42919 sites (95% of them suck...), is going to make this category more useful to its readers. I come here and read the articles, then I want to find good sites to download games. If you point me to a directory of 42919 (!!) sites, where only very few are worthy of my attention, then I wasted my time coming to Wikipedia.
Why not delete the "News, reviews, downloads" links and add a link to http://www.dmoz.org/Games/Video_Games/News_and_Reviews/ Why not delete all useful external links from Wikipedia and just add a link to ODP?
Hm, this has cropped up again. An anon user, 208.253.250.114, removed some extern links which were most likely superfluous. I breathed a sigh of releif when I saw this. "Finally, someone has gotten rid of some of the junk," I thought. However, Camden town came along and restored them. Personally, I beleive that, in some cases, less is more.
Case in point: A recent study showed that when given more choices, rather than fewer, consumers are more likely to buy nothing at all. Researchers found that when customers were presented with 20 brands and types of jams, the majority bought none at all. When given a choice of just 2, most purchased some.
I think the same holds true for Wikipedia: let's just give a few high-quality links rather than 500 crappy ones. I think we should actively trim the extern links that provide little quality content and keep just the ones that are great. If a subject is small and there are only two links that have anything to do with it, it's okay if they're not super-great. But for a subject as huge as this one, I think it's our duty to distill what is good and what isn't and just keep the A+ ones. Just MHO... — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:33, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for the info, Camden town. Though I concur that the deletions were probably vandalism, I still would like to see the list trimmed down to just quality sites for the reasons I mention above. Just my POV. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 13:52, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
Most of the "download sites" are roughly the same. Given equal links, we should prefer the (actual) freeware sites over those trying to sell games (especially if they only offer crippleware downloads). These links should be removed:
-- Mrwojo 16:33, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
People have a tendancy to add games sites they frequent to this article, which I think does nothing to aid the reader. I propose that the following rules/points be considered when adding a site:
The following is a list of sites that have been removed, and my reasons:
(is it just me, or do (did) the link descriptions all sound like unprovable sales pitches?)
News, reviews, and downloads
Specific download sites replaced with a link to google. (no, not really, but I hope you see my point :)
Directories
— Slike | Talk | 04:17, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This section discusses the current structure of of this article. Since the subject is of importance and a major point of contention, please keep this section at the top. If you would like to propose changes to the current implementation, please add comments under the below Comments section.
Computer and video games is currently the umbrella article of the entire subject of computer gaming, be it on pc, console, handheld, arcade, or otherwise. This umbrella article sees a game as "a virtual universe, particular instances ("new game"/"load game") of which are controlled and enforced by a computer".
The goals of this article are to direct the user to what they're looking for in regards to games, and to describe what a game is (see computer and video games#Description).
Computer game and video game both direct to this article. People clicking on the two will likley want to know what a "game" truly is (as per the description above), what to expect of it, and so on.
However, this umbrella article recognizes the fact that video game commonly refers to console game, and that computer game refers to games played on the home computer. Some disambiguation must exist. The article provides links at the top, if applicable, to pages detailing console games, and (there is no page for personal computer games).
One problem is that these specialized articles tend to degrade into "a console game is different from a computer game because...". An attempt to resolve this problem must be made in this umbrella article, by providing a concise overview of various platforms on which "computerized games" are played.
The specialzed articles should/may include:
The arcade games article is a good starting example of what a personal computer games and console games article should look like.
First, I'd like to apologize for going ahead with all of this. I did not find many parts of the discussion until I had already started (though I admit I may have gone ahead anyways), and many parts of the discussion were stagnant. If I'm doing something you disagree with (or agree with), please, let me know, as I'd really appreciate any form of feedback. -- Slike 09:37, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
(when tasks are done they should be removed, and the comments under them)
personal computer games and console games need cleanup.
Trends and attitudes is currently small, but is really a rather large subject, and needs expansion.
Popularity is too large, the few points could be given in fewer words. Halving it may help?
Game modification should be merged into game mods?
Now at List of gaming topics, comments at Talk:List of gaming topics
It is incorrect to say that this is not a computer game. It is, it is just not a digital computer game. So it is certain, without exceptions, that all video games are computer games. Fredrik | talk 01:26, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I favor Fredrik's version of the intro (see both). Leaving out the vid sentance and replacing it with "also called video games" fails to define video game on it's own. I think that the way to interact is not contained within the game. "Electronic" is redundant, since 'computer' is mentioned. Setting refers to the same thing as universe, but is not mentioned beforehand, may be confusing. The linked personal computer entry is not about the IBM PC, so macs need no mention. I do appreciate your work though, and don't mean to discourage you by being so rabid about definitions.— Slike | Talk | 05:27, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I'm afraid I disagree very much with one paragraph of Adraeus' edits (the top one). See
changes. A 'game' is not a simulation, though some games are (but are more than just a sim). Only some games, typically MMOs, use a relational database, the rest persist info in other ways - in either case, persistance is irrelevant at this point. And "[...] client and/or server-side software required for player interaction with the traditional business rules layer replaced by a gameplay rules layer" will be, I think, veeeeery confusing for those unfamiliar with 'business rules' and the like. Also, it implies that game development/etc is a child of business applications, but that's minor. —
Slike |
Talk | 07:11, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This discussion is almost a year old and the intro still reads very awkwardly. There's a request for an expert so I'm going ahead with some intro changes that bring it back in line with the stuff under Structure on this talk page that says it should be about things common to both types of game. Starting a sentence with "Technically" is confrontational. Also, the terms aren't interchangable since "computer games" encompasses games that don't include video. If they were, we should call this computer games or video games, not computer AND video games. Weefz 12:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
If I'm correct, the term personal computer refers, or technically refers, to a computer running a running Windows, Linux, or several other operating systems, but it does not refer to Macs. Would the term home computer, perhaps, be more correct? ✏ OvenFresh ☺ 17:07, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I've added the cleanup-rewrite tag because this article is somewhat confusing and ununderstandable. It also inaccurately describes what video games are. Also, video games are not computer games, even if that is what the name implies, and the articles should be separated as this just causes confusion. "Bushwhacked" does not mean getting whacked by a bush. We should treat these terms as what they mean. ✏ OvenFresh ² 00:47, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Kmg90, please refrain from reverting my reverts :) You may have noticed the attempt at a sign directing you to the talk page. While prevents people from using wikipedia to spam (boost the pagerank of) their (favorite) sites, the addition of "whichever links anyone would like" should still not be allowed. I would not like to see, for example, a list of 10 or 30 links to relatively random "helpful" sites. I think that 3 is a very reasonable number, especially considering that each one of the links that we have now offer the user virtually zero information to supplement this encyclopedic material. So please, before changing that clearly marked section, propose why your link is better than those given, or why we should have more than three. I'd be more than happy to agree with some good reasoning. Slike2 02:03, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I seem to have missed your comment. I changed my own writing back to what I had originally wrote, your generous edit was: " IGN: because IGN UPDATES THERE NEWS and other things than any other SITE!"[sic]. My response to this is: why not make an artice about gaming news sites, or better yet, a list of gaming news sites and attempt to add it there? Gaming news offers the novice reader nothing except confusion. You state that the IGN updates their site more than others, which makes it better - that's your opinion. But does pagerank agree with you? No, it does not. I searched for "gaming news", "game news", "video game news", "computer game news" (etc.), and I did not see the IGN returned as a top hit for any of those. On top of that, it's a corporate site. Further on top of that, this isn't an article about gaming news, it's an article about c/v games. You don't learn about china by watching chinese news, just as you don't learn about america by watching american news. If you pointed the reader to a forum or a singe article on gaming, I think that that would be better (though still inappropriate). IGN is entertainment, and not a learning resource. Slike2 21:19, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
In that case, we may as well say:
and so on.
People always do things with some goal in mind. This phenomenon is not intrinsic to computer and video games, and therefore irrelevant. Fredrik | talk 03:28, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
Anon editor 209.164.32.131 ( talk · contribs) added the following external link, http://games.consumerelectronicsnet.com/, which looks like it is possibly borderline spam, or at least a low quality link. Could someone more knowledgable about computer games please investigate. BlankVerse ∅ 13:44, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I think there should be some reference to video gaming considered to make kids violent (I don't think so), there should be some info on that controversy. vaceituno | Talk | 00:00, 27 Jul 2005 (UTC)
I propose adding MobyGames to the external links. It's a 100% non-profit website, unlike some of the other sites which are there, like GameSpot. Since it's a standard site to link to for articles about console or computer games, I think it's pertinent and should be added to the list. I'm bringing it up here per the note in the External links section. Any objections? — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:02, August 4, 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to add a link to my site at the end of the video game article. It is a history of video games, and I feel it would add some historical perspective to your entry:
The Dot Eaters: Videogame History 101 http://www.thedoteaters.com
Is that okay?
How about
http://www.la-arcada.com ?
I recently added a summary of an interesting concept I came across the other day: the current and future progression of gameplay trends. I'd like to reference the short article and its writer that pointed it out:
Av4rice (2006). "Obsolescing the horse". Warbucket. URL accessed 16 May 2006.
Relevant? -- Roy Laurie 09:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Added internal link to cfg category page and edited labels of all three links for clarity. Glad to discuss! Checked likely link paths from Wikipedia Main to this article and they seem good. -- Sitearm | Talk 02:40, 2005 August 23 (UTC)
I removed the dates from the magazine disambiguation line. The shortened text fits on one line. The dates were unnecessary (they're in the magazine article). The links distracted attention from the magazine link which is the important item in the line. Glad to discuss! -- Sitearm | Talk 02:49, 2005 August 23 (UTC)
Hello. I noticed there were many pages linking to this article via a redirect from video game. I've edited over 150 pages so far, correcting links to point directly to Computer and video games. I ask that if anyone has the time, to help do this. You can see what pages link to video game here: Special:Whatlinkshere/Video game. -- Daniel Lawrence 09:31, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
The term "video game" is used only in the USA and the majority of people in the world are not American. -- Chaosfeary 13:27, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
The phenomenal inaccuracy of that Naming section annoyed me so I changed it without consensus. I was bad. At least it's accurate now. See here if you need to see natural writing from UK gamers. Or Kotaku for Japan and/or the US, I'm not sure where they're all based. I have never heard a gamer use the term "interactive entertainment media" and I doubt I ever will unless they're being ironic. Weefz 00:15, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
My friend from Mexico says 'Video Games'. I could understand computer games but I haven't heard console games unless it is directly speaking between computer and console games. I go for video games. Xsaii 03:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
The term "video games" is popular in the UK, and if the magazine Computer and Video Games is anything to go by, it has been since at least 1981. :) -- Nick R Talk 19:26, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
@ 2007-02-26T06:24Z
The Platforms section does a decent job of addressing the naming convention's, but it could be improved slightly. First of all, a "computer game" is NOT a "video game," "PC Games" are NOT video games. "Console" and "arcade" games (as well as single game pseudo-consoles and cell-phone type platform games) are all video games, however, "PC/Computer games" simply are not. This misnomer is most likely a result of the mainstream culture not understanding the gaming culture, and the casual gaming culture not understanding itself. I have NO source for this so won't edit it in without discussion, I only know what I have been taught and what I have assimilated on my own as an amateur game developer and game design student. Personnally, I would like to see seperate articles, however this would be highly redundant as video games and computer games are extremely similar subjects- 70.130.138.210 06:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
@ 2007-03-13T06:14Z
The history section was highly POV and rehashed info that's just a click away elsewhere in the History of computer and video games and Console wars articles. I trimmed it way down to give a thumbnail of our roots and made the links to the other articles prominent. If in so doing I cut something others feel deserved to be covered here as well please edit it back in. Coll7 01:30, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
The history section keeps expanding. On first blush I didn't want to just rv it because the writing would be a good start if the issues weren't already covered. Is there any reason others see not to revert and direct the author(s) to contribute to the main game history article? Coll7 21:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
British people tend to say games That was an accident. sorry (Moonrunner)
The genres section is retarded. I don't think a game has ever been refered to as "Goth" and if it has the term being used as a video game genre is absolutely ridiculous. The author didn't even mention FPS's in the genres section and it was right next to a pic of Halo, what's up with that?
I noticed the removal of text in the sections that also have a main article. I think even though a main article is present, a section should always have a brief description. The main article refs. are IMHO there in case I want to know more about a specific subsection. The article is less readable now. What do you think? Felsir 12:37, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I've not noticed anything about indie gaming anywhere on the article about independently developed games. Considering the size of the indie/hobbyist game development crowd, and pundits (such as the people of The Escapist) stating that these people will become increasingly important, I find that this is quite the oversight. On the other hand, I can't really think of any way of adequately expressing indie gaming in this article. Help, anyone? -- coldacid 15:36, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Uh..... I really don't know how to say this, but, the article really still needs to be edited, whoever thought to put "mobile phone gaming" in the article was totally crazy. Also, the whole "too many links" thing needs to be taken care of because someone put it back in.
I also think more examples games of the genres need to be put in. I thought of that just the other day. I don't meen to be bossy sounding, but this article needs to be finished, or we'll have some idiot come and erase the entire thing, then we'll be right back where we started from, crap!! fatherdontdance 14 jan, 2006
Can I know why this article is marked as going through an "expansion or major revamping"? There isn't any mention of it on this talk page, let alone a Todo list. -- 82.7.125.142 17:25, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
It's obvious to me that the article in question should be merged into computer and video game industry, not this one. -- 82.7.125.142 20:43, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
I am trying to start a Wiki city but need support and would like to know who would join -- Dr. Mahongany 16:28, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
well?
Pece Kocovski 08:21, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Melbourne House springs to mind. Olaan 05:36, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Google "Australian Game Developers Conference" and you'll get all sorts of good links and names. Coll7 18:48, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
This page has been vandalised. I'm new to this and don't know what to do about it so just thought I would flag it up here.
I'd just like to point out that there is no history of computer games, only consoles. Patheros 23:31, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Are there any confirmations/sources for the last part of the article concerning sales (consoles + console games + computer games)?
It seems very anglocentric. I highly doubt Australia is a bigger market than South Korea, France or Germany.
Somebody changed the first three subsections of the History section to show statements that aren't very helpful. Someone needs to change this back. 12.64.152.170 20:35, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
pong was the first video game, so shouldn't a picture of pong be on this article? dposse 18:13, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
New videogame wiki, maintained by Carnegie Mellon University: [9] Article by BBC: [10] Not on list of wikis yet. Shawnc 18:59, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
This article is biased. An entire section is dedicated to the benefits of gaming, but there is considerable research to the contrary. The positive aspects are not verified, and the negative effects (beyond the whole violence issue) aren't mentioned at all. There is research that video games might have a negative effect on cognitive development and on social behavior. Beyond that, a habit of gaming for hours at a time must be somehow correlated to physical health problems such as obesity. These issues must be addressed to make the article a fair and valid one.
I've read through this article and I think that it's a bit messy in places and unencyclopaedic in others. Examples such as "Some research[6] suggests videogames may even increase players attentional capacities..." or "Nintendo's choice to use cartridges instead of CD-ROMs for the Nintendo 64, unique among the consoles of this period, proved to have negative consequences. In particular, SquareSoft, which had released all previous games in its Final Fantasy series for Nintendo consoles, now turned to the PlayStation; Final Fantasy VII (1997) was a huge success, establishing the popular"...
The article doesn't flow well, has some akward sentence construction amongst other things, and I think is in general need of a cleanup. Mouse Nightshirt 19:44, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
This section has been bothering me for a while; I finally sat down and really went to work on it. In my opinion I improved it big time, so I have removed the "improve and expand" it was tagged with. I have high hopes for this article. :-) LearningKnight 03:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to remove links to the perspective disambiguation page. A few video games link to it, as they refer to "first person perspective" or "third person perspective" (so far I have changed Hang on). Sadly none of the items from the disambiguation page deal with the thing properly, and I can't find a suitable video game link to sort it out. I have, for the moment, opted for a wholly inadequate perspective (graphical) (literary perspective is another good bet for this, but I am still not convinced) but was wondering if there is space here, or elsewhere for a quick "third person, first person" style of game section, then I could clean things up to point to that bit of the article. Otherwise suggestions for the disambiguation are welcome (including delete it!) LeeG 00:29, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I removed a link that went to a forum that was 'all bout games'. It had maybe twenty topics. You might want to watch for it in the future.
What the Heck is up with all this random vandalism that's been going on with this article? I mean, thats entirely all I want to ask here. I fail to understand why this article has had so much vandalism befall it. It's nothing most of us can't handle, but still... -- Joseph Collins 02:35, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I think we should use screens of open source games rather than proprietary ones- then we won't have to use fair use screen shots. In terms of demonstration of video game concepts, I think they would do just as well. Borisblue 23:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Seems unencyclopedic (particularly in the History section) and sometimes POV (pro-enthusiast, anti-business). For example: "Another factor that led to the demise of the home gaming market was the fact that many of these games that were being produced were just ill produced games with no play value whatsoever, all in order to take advantage of the game craze." 68.9.116.26 03:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised I couldn't find anything other than a single sentence on "Art's" page referring to this concept. The other major mediums (film, music, etc.) have sections involving their artistic merit. I realize finding scholarly sources for games is far more difficult, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be at least some mention of the debate over whether or not games are art. If gaming sites can be listed as sources for facts, is there a reason why they cannot be listed as sources referring to editorial commentary on this subject? What about discussions inside these sites reviews about what the game's creators are trying to convey through their work? Yes, keeping such a thing NPOV would be difficult, but so is anything involving the subjective inference of artistic merit. This is from "Film:"
"Film is considered by many to be an important art form; films entertain, educate, enlighten and inspire audiences. [...] Films are also artifacts created by specific cultures, which reflect those cultures, and, in turn, affect them."
If this is the standard by which a medium is judged, then games obviously meet the criteria for consideration, and that consideration should be mentioned. Varmintx 23:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Being considered for deletion due to lack of sources. Either someone should find sources or it should be deleted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Vogel http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,3327/ http://register.imdb.com/name/nm0900917/ DGMurdockIII
How will DirectX 10 help making cross platform games? Like between Xbox and Windows? But what about Mac OS X, Linux and stuff? Microsoft will never make anything really cross platform.
-- Viller
An important game that made the rounds at colleges with DEC video workstations was the " Colossal Cave Adventure". Unless there is serious objection, I'll include this "Beginnings" section of this wiki. YORD-the-unknown 19:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Articles fails criterion 2a of the good article criteria. Once this has been addressed, you can renominate it for good article status. If you disagree with this, you can seek a review. Thanks, JimmyBlackwing 13:10, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Electronic game redirects here, but would Simon (game) qualify as a computer or video game? We either need a split or we need to more broadly define the scope of computer and video games. -- Tristam 15:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
there is a game that came out in the early to mid 90s that i wanted to get but i dont know the name. I know bits and pieces about it but not the name. It is a role playing game set in the future. Its about a guy who gets on a cruise ship and gets captured by a pirate ship which he joins. On the cruise ship he talks to the captain and meets her daughter which i think he ends up saving i think later. The cool thing about this game is that you can type in your requests. At the beginning i know you can go to a bar where there is an alien dancing and you can type in what you want to drink. I know that there is an alien cab driver and if you dont pay him he shoots you and the game is over. Any info on this would be appreciated. MT soil MN roots 02:53, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
This section should be removed. It is terribly incomplete. In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of ANY system that doesn't allow for multiplayer gaming! Certainly, the preceeding paragraph mentions systems that didn't get included in the list. Bulbous 03:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
(Even pong had multiplayer gaming, just like the original Atari's. Its really not a standout feature. Maybe if its changed from simply multiplayer to online multiplayer capabilities, it will make more sense. Tauraunt 21:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC))
If no one has any defense for the inclusion of this section, it should be removed. As almost all systems allow for multiplayer gaming, the relevance of this section is negligable. The same is also true of the "History of Multiplayer video games", which skips from 1958 to 1972 to 1985 and onward. Bulbous 02:43, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I have re-written the "Multiplayer Gaming" section with links and a footote. Bulbous 18:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
We should probably include something on Microsoft's initiative to promote pc as a gaming platform. If it works, it can have a huge effect on the views people have of the pc. It has the chance of revolutionizing the pc as a gaming platform in the views of people, and can change everything.
I think someone should make a new topic of video game cheats for the hell of it. Naruto editor 18:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
The truth of the matter about video games is that they are truly eating away at the brain. People who spend hours on end on video games are more likely to get lower grades. Video games, in my opinion , are one of the many (and I say many meaning more than I can name) reasons for bad grades. They cause people (children more specifically) to turn away from studying. Then the parents get report cards and ask their kids why, the kids tend to say "I don't know". Does this not give a reason to dislike video games? Miapowell 00:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)Miapowell
"Video games" don't cause "bad grades". If we accepted that logic, then all students would have "bad grades", not just those who play video games. I wouldn't necessarily disagree that spending too much time playing video games might detract from study time... but then again, spending too much time doing pretty much anything might detract from study time! If a child is spending too much time on video games, I would dislike the parent who permitted it more than the games. Bulbous 01:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
"Replayability" is a term coined by the gaming press, very familiar to gamers; but it's a bit of an odd one, not sure if you'd see it in any dictionaries. Should the term be clarified, or Playability have its own cvg article? Marasmusine 07:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Here's a definition, though. Marasmusine 07:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
it has been proposed that multiplayer game be merged into this page. add your vote with support or oppose. feel free to leave extra comments in the comments section. Scepia 02:01, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
The page Jurassic Park (video game) is both..unconcise and..makes it hard to find info on a certain game..making a disambig page would be rather difficult. Maybe take information off each and make a stub for each game to be expanded? I am making an article for just one of these and It would be hard to incorporate it into this messy article....Help needed on the section in general..many thanks Fethroesforia 21:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I have come up with a few key considerations to factor in when distinguishing what is a "computer/PC game" and a "video/console game". Using logical statements I have determined that Console/Video games are NOT computer games.
Is a console a type of computer? Yes, I will give it that but other than that a PC and a console game bear very few similarities. As you can tell I have a slanted (PC gamer) but realistic view on how Computer/PC games and Video/Console games are different things.
@ 2007-01-13T15:37Z
I think I agree with one point M jurrens has, on marketing issues. If we were trapped, living exclusively in the late 90's early 2000's, some of his console points MIGHT have some validity, but really not.
Console Games
1) Not typically written for RISC. Most are written in C++ and assembly language for a large variety of microprocessors!
2) Some arcade games are built on PC architecture and copy-protection schemes aside can could run on a PC with no emulation. Also many early European console games were ports of European computer games, in fact in Japan and Europe PC/Console was in many cases the same thing. In the US, the Intelevision PC/Console existed.
3) An X-Box is a PC, the Amiga CD-32 was a PC, etc... etc... there are examples.
4) Host consoles are designed to run an operating system, it's just usually a proprietary OS for that platform, for early consoles it was burned into firmware, modern systems it's on the media.
5) Console games are not "only written" for one platform. Console games are tuned to work with one system sometimes, or in many cases, they are written for multiple consoles so that ports can be easily accomplished, and they are frequently written for Windows first.
6) Yes, console games are marketed differently, this is the only point I will consede and it is not enough of a point to say console games are special in some way.
Computer/PC Games
1) Oh please, PC games have been written for every kind of PC you can imagine with every kind of CPU architecture you can think of. Do I need to list the hundreds of PC platforms here?
2) Oh, you're talking about windows games. I see, how about console games that are written and tested on Windows and then compiled with #defines so that they run on the console.
Some other highlights, FarCry on the Xbox allows you to make new level maps to freely share with others. A keyboard was shipped for the GameCube for playing an on-line RPG. Playing online games on the Wii requires no subscription fee for anything... do I need to counter every single one of these points as invalid?
If someone invented a console tomorrow that allowed programmers to be pigs, then they would replicate all of these behaviors to their console development. As it is, we already now have patch/repair cycles in console games which 10 years ago was a chief argument point for people trying to segregate them. If tomorrow every console came with a super high resolution mouse, the games would use it. Games are written to make use of what is commonly available for the platform.
Look, face it guys, video games are video games regardless the platform. Just because you want to belive you're platform of choice is special, doesn't make it special. It's just another platform. BcRIPster 20:46, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
@ 2007-01-17T02:24Z
Ok, so why havent they merged console with computer? Or just simply call consoles, "gaming computers"? Granted they are similar, but I dont see putting an computer game into a console and having it work. 68.1.145.121 05:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
@ 2007-01-17T06:25Z
I aggree with all of you, but there should be two distinctions of the term in the same article 8if you chose to keep it as one. Compare and contrast the too. Compare how they are allike mabey in the same sub article and contrast in the same article. I just hate how over generalized this all is in it's current state. M jurrens 18:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
This article requires cleanup. It needs to be written with a NPOV. Spell check is needed as well. Pac-man image needs fixing. Jacroe | Talk 19:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED, and then moved again to Video games, per discussion below, and per "video game" not being a proper noun. Wish I'd caught that before fixing 10 double-redirects. - GTBacchus( talk) 04:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Computer and video games → Video Games — Title currently confuses a Platform with a Genre, misusing the term "video games" BcRIPster 05:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
@ 2007-01-18T17:04Z
This move would require a complete re-write of the opening paragraphs, which should then help clear up alot of the confusion and misuse of terminology. BcRIPster 05:49, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't necessarily disagree with the reasons behind the nomination, but the suggestion for the new name is wrong. "Video Games" is not a proper noun, so "Games" should not be capitalized. It might also need to be at the singular "Video game" instead of the plural, but that is more debatable. Recury 18:16, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I just realized something. Shouldn't we be moving to "video game" (singular) and not "video games"?-- SeizureDog 09:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
See the rewrite for the suggested new opening text. — Frecklefoot | Talk 22:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Video Game/s
Apples and oranges are fruit, but not the same. I agree with digital convergance statements these are true. But these industries, console gaming and pc gaming, apparently want these games to have distinct identities. The structure I propose provides an unbiased way of looking at all video games, and then drills down the specifics. Any gamer, programmer, 3d artist, developer, producer, on any platform with any operating system would be happy to contribute and have a place to add thier perspective evenly and fairly. M jurrens 17:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
A consensus is fairly clear in the discussion you started above. You should continue that discussion rather than essentially bringing it up again in another form. This vote is a waste of time. --
mattb @ 2007-01-19T20:35Z
Ok we all agree that computer and video games, should be merged into video games and the individual genres should also recieve attention, but how much detail and how these articles are composed is what I am trying to get at now. How will the information be cross referenced, what about the devices too, they need some mention of games too, so they should have links to thier perspective game types. Linking, distribution, and structure of article content is my debate. I would like to know the best way to present the information as a collection of articles. What should be included where.... and how much of it? That question makes the vote valid. M jurrens 20:42, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
You apear to be a leader in this community so your opinion would be most qualified IMO. Therefor I think for the most part we can all procede with the consesus from the vote before mine as well, that yes we should move elements that are general to video games, elements pertaining to PC gaming to PC gaming, console gaming elements to Video game console, or create an article about Console gaming platform. Then I think we should do as you have said and break out and add to the genre article series, then link it all to Video games and mention in the genre articles which platforms they are commanly written for. We should use supporting information contained in this article in the video game article that gives a decent overview of platforms and genres and deal with the specifics it the perspective, platform and genre articles. Unless there are aany objections we would just mention the changes as we go and everyone can contribute and work at it. It is wikipededia so we are all free to contribute and modify as long as we remain within the consesus of what is believed to be the ideal way of going about it. M jurrens 00:13, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
This page was moved from computer and video games to here, video games. But this is incorrect, it should be video game (singular) per Wikipedia standards! Can someone please fix this?
Also, the opening text was not replaced with the rewrite, which we haven't even finished yet! Please chime in here with any further comments. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
You're right, it should be at Video game. I'll fix that; it was my mistake. As for "jumping the gun" on the move, I completed the move because the request had been listed at WP:RM for more than five days, and was in the backlog section. I didn't realize the move was to be delayed until some rewriting had occurred, and I'm not sure what harm there is in going ahead and completing the move while rewrites are still in progress. If there's something I'm still missing, please feel free to let me know. - GTBacchus( talk) 23:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Now that this step is moving along, I would say we need help in propagating this restructure out across all of the "CVG" space. Any thoughts? BcRIPster 22:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I started to day from the top down working on catagories and other pages fixing CVG->VG... any help would be appriciated. BcRIPster 17:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
...I don't know if anyone's doing a project page yet (I can try and set one up later tonight when I have chance), but I've finished correcting: "Category:Lists of computer and video game characters" to-> " Category:Lists of video game characters" and all of the pages that point to it. Whew... BcRIPster 22:10, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to mention that I've been working on fixing links from CVG->VG manually in articles for about three days now, upon suggestion from another editor. I've fixed somewhere close to 1000 of these links, so far. I find fixing links interesting, and I'm sure there will be more to be done, so please leave a note on my talk page with instructions if I can help. Thanks! *Vendetta* (whois talk edits) 21:33, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
You keep revising this so that it is full of definitive statements on things that are not true. Also, you keep expanding this header. The introduction to this article is intended to be succinct as you would find in a summary as there are extend expansions in the lower parts of the article... followed by longer expansions on each topics own stand alone page. Loading up the top is redundant and verbose. BcRIPster 01:16, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
@ 2007-02-01T22:02Z
@ 2007-02-01T22:24Z
Frecklefoot, I went ahead and took the article back to the version before this series of events but I tried to incorporate a few of the suggestions that have come out of the talks such as cutting down the info about controllers and dropping the "interactive entertaiment" bit (which could go someplace else that expands on industry terminology). BcRIPster 04:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
In regards to BcRIPster's statement above, thanks. I still think it could be better and simpler (as mattb and I prefer), but I'm not going to edit right now. Let's discuss here what the opening paragraph should state. Then, when we are all in agreement, we can go ahead and change it on the article.
No, this is not the normal wiki-way. But since this game is so high profile and so many editors want a say in what goes into the opening, I think this is the way we should handle it. Otherwise, we'll just go on reverting and stepping on each other's fingers.
My vote for the first sentence in the opening is what I stated above, namely:
Please add your comments on this opening sentence below. I think we can move onto the rest of the paragraph (which can discuss things such as controllers, etc.) after we have this hammered out. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:12, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, then, to revive this topic, how's:
Are we ready to tackle the second sentence? Does everyone agree on this version? — Frecklefoot | Talk 17:03, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, so we're up to:
I understand you being occupied with other stuff. Personally, I'm taking off in a couple of days and would like to see this resolved before then. If not, s'okay, life goes on... — Frecklefoot | Talk 21:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
FWIW, I've been working to come up with a good analogy to this whole situation, and I think the best comparison is the efforts to get people to quit labeling all animated programs as "cartoons". A cartoon is generally considered to be something comical or exaggerated. Programs like Lain, or the movie Ghost in the Shell 2 are not comical by any stretch of the imagination, but that doesn't stop U.S. readers from calling them cartoons because they are animated. Calling them cartoons confuses people and then you get parents taking their kids to watch Spirited Away as a "Disney cartoon" and not getting what they expected. Should we still call them cartoons? I don't think so, and slowly but surely the terminology is getting corrected in common usage. But, there will always be people spitting fire that if it's animated it's a cartoon, or whatever... or if it's not a cartoon then it can only be anime, but anime is considered to be the label for all Japanese animation (including comical), so where does U.S. based, adult (not porn) themed animation go for a label?!? But, that's another fight for another day, on another page =) BcRIPster 16:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
There have been many studies where they have compared a "Video game brain" to a Non video game brained person has actually been catscaned, and the results are astonishing! Does game http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16099971/ (posted by 205.123.123.204 on 18:19, 14 February 2007)
You are way over reaching, and your statement is wrong. The article did not say video games are bad for you. The implication of the article is that violent video games may be bad in that they reward violent thinking (and it goes on to speculate that this might apply to all media). There are many studies to show that video games in general also help stimulate higher reason skills and co-ordination (positive). There are also studies yet that show that intense, extended play within simulated 3-D environments has an impact on depth perception (possible negative?). What's your point other than attacking games in general? BcRIPster 20:40, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
This article should include the claimed hazards of playing video games that some psychologists have widely lectured, just like the concerns of the overuse of television. For example: violent video games teaches kids that the only solution to a problem is to destroy it without personal investigation, patience etc. and that it takes their sensitivity away from real life violence/suffering.
So this article should include it too if it wishes to be complete, informative and neutral. Or maybe it should be split in two sections: the positive and negative impacts of playing video games.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.146.236.11 ( talk • contribs).
-- Search for the word "gay" and "your mom" Spixels 20:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
--The opening of this bit should read a little differently. As it is right now, the implication is that every game on the PC is meant to be modified, which is really untrue. A proper opening might say that the PC environment (being able to see/edit back-end files for a game) lends itself to modification, and indeed some games are made with end-user modifications in mind.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.151.234 ( talk • contribs).
This article would be allot more interesting if it had some more pictures to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.253.187 ( talk • contribs)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
I was wondering if there is like a regional section for videogames, eg. American Video Games, Japanese Video Games, British Video Games, Middle Eastern Video Games.... Well you get my idea. Richardkselby 01:31, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't mean to be a noob (yes,I have heard of NEO-GEO),can you tell me what ut2004 is about thanks.
Everything related to merging video games and computer games, and the proper naming and classification of computerized games has been moved to Moved to: Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and Video Games/Definition dispute — Slike | Talk | 02:33, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Over at Category talk:Computer and video games we're holding a vote to determine if Video games should, from here on out, be an umbrella term for Arcade games, Computer games / PC games and Console games. Head on over and vote! Oberiko 21:51, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Moved this text to here:
This text refers to video game publishers, which is not what this article is about. Nintendo is listed on the video game developer article, which is where it belongs. I'll add Sony to the list there. — Frecklefoot 13:36 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Kudos to Ajbperc for his edit to the General section. It now reads much better and gives a clear description of the distinction between computer games and video games. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 17:51, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a links repository, correct, but I don't understand how deleting quality external links and adding a link to a directory of 42919 sites (95% of them suck...), is going to make this category more useful to its readers. I come here and read the articles, then I want to find good sites to download games. If you point me to a directory of 42919 (!!) sites, where only very few are worthy of my attention, then I wasted my time coming to Wikipedia.
Why not delete the "News, reviews, downloads" links and add a link to http://www.dmoz.org/Games/Video_Games/News_and_Reviews/ Why not delete all useful external links from Wikipedia and just add a link to ODP?
Hm, this has cropped up again. An anon user, 208.253.250.114, removed some extern links which were most likely superfluous. I breathed a sigh of releif when I saw this. "Finally, someone has gotten rid of some of the junk," I thought. However, Camden town came along and restored them. Personally, I beleive that, in some cases, less is more.
Case in point: A recent study showed that when given more choices, rather than fewer, consumers are more likely to buy nothing at all. Researchers found that when customers were presented with 20 brands and types of jams, the majority bought none at all. When given a choice of just 2, most purchased some.
I think the same holds true for Wikipedia: let's just give a few high-quality links rather than 500 crappy ones. I think we should actively trim the extern links that provide little quality content and keep just the ones that are great. If a subject is small and there are only two links that have anything to do with it, it's okay if they're not super-great. But for a subject as huge as this one, I think it's our duty to distill what is good and what isn't and just keep the A+ ones. Just MHO... — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:33, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for the info, Camden town. Though I concur that the deletions were probably vandalism, I still would like to see the list trimmed down to just quality sites for the reasons I mention above. Just my POV. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 13:52, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
Most of the "download sites" are roughly the same. Given equal links, we should prefer the (actual) freeware sites over those trying to sell games (especially if they only offer crippleware downloads). These links should be removed:
-- Mrwojo 16:33, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
People have a tendancy to add games sites they frequent to this article, which I think does nothing to aid the reader. I propose that the following rules/points be considered when adding a site:
The following is a list of sites that have been removed, and my reasons:
(is it just me, or do (did) the link descriptions all sound like unprovable sales pitches?)
News, reviews, and downloads
Specific download sites replaced with a link to google. (no, not really, but I hope you see my point :)
Directories
— Slike | Talk | 04:17, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This section discusses the current structure of of this article. Since the subject is of importance and a major point of contention, please keep this section at the top. If you would like to propose changes to the current implementation, please add comments under the below Comments section.
Computer and video games is currently the umbrella article of the entire subject of computer gaming, be it on pc, console, handheld, arcade, or otherwise. This umbrella article sees a game as "a virtual universe, particular instances ("new game"/"load game") of which are controlled and enforced by a computer".
The goals of this article are to direct the user to what they're looking for in regards to games, and to describe what a game is (see computer and video games#Description).
Computer game and video game both direct to this article. People clicking on the two will likley want to know what a "game" truly is (as per the description above), what to expect of it, and so on.
However, this umbrella article recognizes the fact that video game commonly refers to console game, and that computer game refers to games played on the home computer. Some disambiguation must exist. The article provides links at the top, if applicable, to pages detailing console games, and (there is no page for personal computer games).
One problem is that these specialized articles tend to degrade into "a console game is different from a computer game because...". An attempt to resolve this problem must be made in this umbrella article, by providing a concise overview of various platforms on which "computerized games" are played.
The specialzed articles should/may include:
The arcade games article is a good starting example of what a personal computer games and console games article should look like.
First, I'd like to apologize for going ahead with all of this. I did not find many parts of the discussion until I had already started (though I admit I may have gone ahead anyways), and many parts of the discussion were stagnant. If I'm doing something you disagree with (or agree with), please, let me know, as I'd really appreciate any form of feedback. -- Slike 09:37, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
(when tasks are done they should be removed, and the comments under them)
personal computer games and console games need cleanup.
Trends and attitudes is currently small, but is really a rather large subject, and needs expansion.
Popularity is too large, the few points could be given in fewer words. Halving it may help?
Game modification should be merged into game mods?
Now at List of gaming topics, comments at Talk:List of gaming topics
It is incorrect to say that this is not a computer game. It is, it is just not a digital computer game. So it is certain, without exceptions, that all video games are computer games. Fredrik | talk 01:26, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I favor Fredrik's version of the intro (see both). Leaving out the vid sentance and replacing it with "also called video games" fails to define video game on it's own. I think that the way to interact is not contained within the game. "Electronic" is redundant, since 'computer' is mentioned. Setting refers to the same thing as universe, but is not mentioned beforehand, may be confusing. The linked personal computer entry is not about the IBM PC, so macs need no mention. I do appreciate your work though, and don't mean to discourage you by being so rabid about definitions.— Slike | Talk | 05:27, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I'm afraid I disagree very much with one paragraph of Adraeus' edits (the top one). See
changes. A 'game' is not a simulation, though some games are (but are more than just a sim). Only some games, typically MMOs, use a relational database, the rest persist info in other ways - in either case, persistance is irrelevant at this point. And "[...] client and/or server-side software required for player interaction with the traditional business rules layer replaced by a gameplay rules layer" will be, I think, veeeeery confusing for those unfamiliar with 'business rules' and the like. Also, it implies that game development/etc is a child of business applications, but that's minor. —
Slike |
Talk | 07:11, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This discussion is almost a year old and the intro still reads very awkwardly. There's a request for an expert so I'm going ahead with some intro changes that bring it back in line with the stuff under Structure on this talk page that says it should be about things common to both types of game. Starting a sentence with "Technically" is confrontational. Also, the terms aren't interchangable since "computer games" encompasses games that don't include video. If they were, we should call this computer games or video games, not computer AND video games. Weefz 12:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
If I'm correct, the term personal computer refers, or technically refers, to a computer running a running Windows, Linux, or several other operating systems, but it does not refer to Macs. Would the term home computer, perhaps, be more correct? ✏ OvenFresh ☺ 17:07, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I've added the cleanup-rewrite tag because this article is somewhat confusing and ununderstandable. It also inaccurately describes what video games are. Also, video games are not computer games, even if that is what the name implies, and the articles should be separated as this just causes confusion. "Bushwhacked" does not mean getting whacked by a bush. We should treat these terms as what they mean. ✏ OvenFresh ² 00:47, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Kmg90, please refrain from reverting my reverts :) You may have noticed the attempt at a sign directing you to the talk page. While prevents people from using wikipedia to spam (boost the pagerank of) their (favorite) sites, the addition of "whichever links anyone would like" should still not be allowed. I would not like to see, for example, a list of 10 or 30 links to relatively random "helpful" sites. I think that 3 is a very reasonable number, especially considering that each one of the links that we have now offer the user virtually zero information to supplement this encyclopedic material. So please, before changing that clearly marked section, propose why your link is better than those given, or why we should have more than three. I'd be more than happy to agree with some good reasoning. Slike2 02:03, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I seem to have missed your comment. I changed my own writing back to what I had originally wrote, your generous edit was: " IGN: because IGN UPDATES THERE NEWS and other things than any other SITE!"[sic]. My response to this is: why not make an artice about gaming news sites, or better yet, a list of gaming news sites and attempt to add it there? Gaming news offers the novice reader nothing except confusion. You state that the IGN updates their site more than others, which makes it better - that's your opinion. But does pagerank agree with you? No, it does not. I searched for "gaming news", "game news", "video game news", "computer game news" (etc.), and I did not see the IGN returned as a top hit for any of those. On top of that, it's a corporate site. Further on top of that, this isn't an article about gaming news, it's an article about c/v games. You don't learn about china by watching chinese news, just as you don't learn about america by watching american news. If you pointed the reader to a forum or a singe article on gaming, I think that that would be better (though still inappropriate). IGN is entertainment, and not a learning resource. Slike2 21:19, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
In that case, we may as well say:
and so on.
People always do things with some goal in mind. This phenomenon is not intrinsic to computer and video games, and therefore irrelevant. Fredrik | talk 03:28, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
Anon editor 209.164.32.131 ( talk · contribs) added the following external link, http://games.consumerelectronicsnet.com/, which looks like it is possibly borderline spam, or at least a low quality link. Could someone more knowledgable about computer games please investigate. BlankVerse ∅ 13:44, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I think there should be some reference to video gaming considered to make kids violent (I don't think so), there should be some info on that controversy. vaceituno | Talk | 00:00, 27 Jul 2005 (UTC)
I propose adding MobyGames to the external links. It's a 100% non-profit website, unlike some of the other sites which are there, like GameSpot. Since it's a standard site to link to for articles about console or computer games, I think it's pertinent and should be added to the list. I'm bringing it up here per the note in the External links section. Any objections? — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:02, August 4, 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to add a link to my site at the end of the video game article. It is a history of video games, and I feel it would add some historical perspective to your entry:
The Dot Eaters: Videogame History 101 http://www.thedoteaters.com
Is that okay?
How about
http://www.la-arcada.com ?
I recently added a summary of an interesting concept I came across the other day: the current and future progression of gameplay trends. I'd like to reference the short article and its writer that pointed it out:
Av4rice (2006). "Obsolescing the horse". Warbucket. URL accessed 16 May 2006.
Relevant? -- Roy Laurie 09:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Added internal link to cfg category page and edited labels of all three links for clarity. Glad to discuss! Checked likely link paths from Wikipedia Main to this article and they seem good. -- Sitearm | Talk 02:40, 2005 August 23 (UTC)
I removed the dates from the magazine disambiguation line. The shortened text fits on one line. The dates were unnecessary (they're in the magazine article). The links distracted attention from the magazine link which is the important item in the line. Glad to discuss! -- Sitearm | Talk 02:49, 2005 August 23 (UTC)
Hello. I noticed there were many pages linking to this article via a redirect from video game. I've edited over 150 pages so far, correcting links to point directly to Computer and video games. I ask that if anyone has the time, to help do this. You can see what pages link to video game here: Special:Whatlinkshere/Video game. -- Daniel Lawrence 09:31, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
The term "video game" is used only in the USA and the majority of people in the world are not American. -- Chaosfeary 13:27, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
The phenomenal inaccuracy of that Naming section annoyed me so I changed it without consensus. I was bad. At least it's accurate now. See here if you need to see natural writing from UK gamers. Or Kotaku for Japan and/or the US, I'm not sure where they're all based. I have never heard a gamer use the term "interactive entertainment media" and I doubt I ever will unless they're being ironic. Weefz 00:15, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
My friend from Mexico says 'Video Games'. I could understand computer games but I haven't heard console games unless it is directly speaking between computer and console games. I go for video games. Xsaii 03:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
The term "video games" is popular in the UK, and if the magazine Computer and Video Games is anything to go by, it has been since at least 1981. :) -- Nick R Talk 19:26, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
@ 2007-02-26T06:24Z
The Platforms section does a decent job of addressing the naming convention's, but it could be improved slightly. First of all, a "computer game" is NOT a "video game," "PC Games" are NOT video games. "Console" and "arcade" games (as well as single game pseudo-consoles and cell-phone type platform games) are all video games, however, "PC/Computer games" simply are not. This misnomer is most likely a result of the mainstream culture not understanding the gaming culture, and the casual gaming culture not understanding itself. I have NO source for this so won't edit it in without discussion, I only know what I have been taught and what I have assimilated on my own as an amateur game developer and game design student. Personnally, I would like to see seperate articles, however this would be highly redundant as video games and computer games are extremely similar subjects- 70.130.138.210 06:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
@ 2007-03-13T06:14Z
The history section was highly POV and rehashed info that's just a click away elsewhere in the History of computer and video games and Console wars articles. I trimmed it way down to give a thumbnail of our roots and made the links to the other articles prominent. If in so doing I cut something others feel deserved to be covered here as well please edit it back in. Coll7 01:30, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
The history section keeps expanding. On first blush I didn't want to just rv it because the writing would be a good start if the issues weren't already covered. Is there any reason others see not to revert and direct the author(s) to contribute to the main game history article? Coll7 21:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
British people tend to say games That was an accident. sorry (Moonrunner)
The genres section is retarded. I don't think a game has ever been refered to as "Goth" and if it has the term being used as a video game genre is absolutely ridiculous. The author didn't even mention FPS's in the genres section and it was right next to a pic of Halo, what's up with that?
I noticed the removal of text in the sections that also have a main article. I think even though a main article is present, a section should always have a brief description. The main article refs. are IMHO there in case I want to know more about a specific subsection. The article is less readable now. What do you think? Felsir 12:37, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I've not noticed anything about indie gaming anywhere on the article about independently developed games. Considering the size of the indie/hobbyist game development crowd, and pundits (such as the people of The Escapist) stating that these people will become increasingly important, I find that this is quite the oversight. On the other hand, I can't really think of any way of adequately expressing indie gaming in this article. Help, anyone? -- coldacid 15:36, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Uh..... I really don't know how to say this, but, the article really still needs to be edited, whoever thought to put "mobile phone gaming" in the article was totally crazy. Also, the whole "too many links" thing needs to be taken care of because someone put it back in.
I also think more examples games of the genres need to be put in. I thought of that just the other day. I don't meen to be bossy sounding, but this article needs to be finished, or we'll have some idiot come and erase the entire thing, then we'll be right back where we started from, crap!! fatherdontdance 14 jan, 2006
Can I know why this article is marked as going through an "expansion or major revamping"? There isn't any mention of it on this talk page, let alone a Todo list. -- 82.7.125.142 17:25, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
It's obvious to me that the article in question should be merged into computer and video game industry, not this one. -- 82.7.125.142 20:43, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
I am trying to start a Wiki city but need support and would like to know who would join -- Dr. Mahongany 16:28, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
well?
Pece Kocovski 08:21, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Melbourne House springs to mind. Olaan 05:36, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Google "Australian Game Developers Conference" and you'll get all sorts of good links and names. Coll7 18:48, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
This page has been vandalised. I'm new to this and don't know what to do about it so just thought I would flag it up here.
I'd just like to point out that there is no history of computer games, only consoles. Patheros 23:31, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Are there any confirmations/sources for the last part of the article concerning sales (consoles + console games + computer games)?
It seems very anglocentric. I highly doubt Australia is a bigger market than South Korea, France or Germany.
Somebody changed the first three subsections of the History section to show statements that aren't very helpful. Someone needs to change this back. 12.64.152.170 20:35, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
pong was the first video game, so shouldn't a picture of pong be on this article? dposse 18:13, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
New videogame wiki, maintained by Carnegie Mellon University: [9] Article by BBC: [10] Not on list of wikis yet. Shawnc 18:59, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
This article is biased. An entire section is dedicated to the benefits of gaming, but there is considerable research to the contrary. The positive aspects are not verified, and the negative effects (beyond the whole violence issue) aren't mentioned at all. There is research that video games might have a negative effect on cognitive development and on social behavior. Beyond that, a habit of gaming for hours at a time must be somehow correlated to physical health problems such as obesity. These issues must be addressed to make the article a fair and valid one.
I've read through this article and I think that it's a bit messy in places and unencyclopaedic in others. Examples such as "Some research[6] suggests videogames may even increase players attentional capacities..." or "Nintendo's choice to use cartridges instead of CD-ROMs for the Nintendo 64, unique among the consoles of this period, proved to have negative consequences. In particular, SquareSoft, which had released all previous games in its Final Fantasy series for Nintendo consoles, now turned to the PlayStation; Final Fantasy VII (1997) was a huge success, establishing the popular"...
The article doesn't flow well, has some akward sentence construction amongst other things, and I think is in general need of a cleanup. Mouse Nightshirt 19:44, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
This section has been bothering me for a while; I finally sat down and really went to work on it. In my opinion I improved it big time, so I have removed the "improve and expand" it was tagged with. I have high hopes for this article. :-) LearningKnight 03:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to remove links to the perspective disambiguation page. A few video games link to it, as they refer to "first person perspective" or "third person perspective" (so far I have changed Hang on). Sadly none of the items from the disambiguation page deal with the thing properly, and I can't find a suitable video game link to sort it out. I have, for the moment, opted for a wholly inadequate perspective (graphical) (literary perspective is another good bet for this, but I am still not convinced) but was wondering if there is space here, or elsewhere for a quick "third person, first person" style of game section, then I could clean things up to point to that bit of the article. Otherwise suggestions for the disambiguation are welcome (including delete it!) LeeG 00:29, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I removed a link that went to a forum that was 'all bout games'. It had maybe twenty topics. You might want to watch for it in the future.
What the Heck is up with all this random vandalism that's been going on with this article? I mean, thats entirely all I want to ask here. I fail to understand why this article has had so much vandalism befall it. It's nothing most of us can't handle, but still... -- Joseph Collins 02:35, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I think we should use screens of open source games rather than proprietary ones- then we won't have to use fair use screen shots. In terms of demonstration of video game concepts, I think they would do just as well. Borisblue 23:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Seems unencyclopedic (particularly in the History section) and sometimes POV (pro-enthusiast, anti-business). For example: "Another factor that led to the demise of the home gaming market was the fact that many of these games that were being produced were just ill produced games with no play value whatsoever, all in order to take advantage of the game craze." 68.9.116.26 03:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised I couldn't find anything other than a single sentence on "Art's" page referring to this concept. The other major mediums (film, music, etc.) have sections involving their artistic merit. I realize finding scholarly sources for games is far more difficult, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be at least some mention of the debate over whether or not games are art. If gaming sites can be listed as sources for facts, is there a reason why they cannot be listed as sources referring to editorial commentary on this subject? What about discussions inside these sites reviews about what the game's creators are trying to convey through their work? Yes, keeping such a thing NPOV would be difficult, but so is anything involving the subjective inference of artistic merit. This is from "Film:"
"Film is considered by many to be an important art form; films entertain, educate, enlighten and inspire audiences. [...] Films are also artifacts created by specific cultures, which reflect those cultures, and, in turn, affect them."
If this is the standard by which a medium is judged, then games obviously meet the criteria for consideration, and that consideration should be mentioned. Varmintx 23:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Being considered for deletion due to lack of sources. Either someone should find sources or it should be deleted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Vogel http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,3327/ http://register.imdb.com/name/nm0900917/ DGMurdockIII
How will DirectX 10 help making cross platform games? Like between Xbox and Windows? But what about Mac OS X, Linux and stuff? Microsoft will never make anything really cross platform.
-- Viller
An important game that made the rounds at colleges with DEC video workstations was the " Colossal Cave Adventure". Unless there is serious objection, I'll include this "Beginnings" section of this wiki. YORD-the-unknown 19:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Articles fails criterion 2a of the good article criteria. Once this has been addressed, you can renominate it for good article status. If you disagree with this, you can seek a review. Thanks, JimmyBlackwing 13:10, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Electronic game redirects here, but would Simon (game) qualify as a computer or video game? We either need a split or we need to more broadly define the scope of computer and video games. -- Tristam 15:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
there is a game that came out in the early to mid 90s that i wanted to get but i dont know the name. I know bits and pieces about it but not the name. It is a role playing game set in the future. Its about a guy who gets on a cruise ship and gets captured by a pirate ship which he joins. On the cruise ship he talks to the captain and meets her daughter which i think he ends up saving i think later. The cool thing about this game is that you can type in your requests. At the beginning i know you can go to a bar where there is an alien dancing and you can type in what you want to drink. I know that there is an alien cab driver and if you dont pay him he shoots you and the game is over. Any info on this would be appreciated. MT soil MN roots 02:53, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
This section should be removed. It is terribly incomplete. In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of ANY system that doesn't allow for multiplayer gaming! Certainly, the preceeding paragraph mentions systems that didn't get included in the list. Bulbous 03:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
(Even pong had multiplayer gaming, just like the original Atari's. Its really not a standout feature. Maybe if its changed from simply multiplayer to online multiplayer capabilities, it will make more sense. Tauraunt 21:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC))
If no one has any defense for the inclusion of this section, it should be removed. As almost all systems allow for multiplayer gaming, the relevance of this section is negligable. The same is also true of the "History of Multiplayer video games", which skips from 1958 to 1972 to 1985 and onward. Bulbous 02:43, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I have re-written the "Multiplayer Gaming" section with links and a footote. Bulbous 18:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
We should probably include something on Microsoft's initiative to promote pc as a gaming platform. If it works, it can have a huge effect on the views people have of the pc. It has the chance of revolutionizing the pc as a gaming platform in the views of people, and can change everything.
I think someone should make a new topic of video game cheats for the hell of it. Naruto editor 18:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
The truth of the matter about video games is that they are truly eating away at the brain. People who spend hours on end on video games are more likely to get lower grades. Video games, in my opinion , are one of the many (and I say many meaning more than I can name) reasons for bad grades. They cause people (children more specifically) to turn away from studying. Then the parents get report cards and ask their kids why, the kids tend to say "I don't know". Does this not give a reason to dislike video games? Miapowell 00:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)Miapowell
"Video games" don't cause "bad grades". If we accepted that logic, then all students would have "bad grades", not just those who play video games. I wouldn't necessarily disagree that spending too much time playing video games might detract from study time... but then again, spending too much time doing pretty much anything might detract from study time! If a child is spending too much time on video games, I would dislike the parent who permitted it more than the games. Bulbous 01:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
"Replayability" is a term coined by the gaming press, very familiar to gamers; but it's a bit of an odd one, not sure if you'd see it in any dictionaries. Should the term be clarified, or Playability have its own cvg article? Marasmusine 07:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Here's a definition, though. Marasmusine 07:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
it has been proposed that multiplayer game be merged into this page. add your vote with support or oppose. feel free to leave extra comments in the comments section. Scepia 02:01, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
The page Jurassic Park (video game) is both..unconcise and..makes it hard to find info on a certain game..making a disambig page would be rather difficult. Maybe take information off each and make a stub for each game to be expanded? I am making an article for just one of these and It would be hard to incorporate it into this messy article....Help needed on the section in general..many thanks Fethroesforia 21:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I have come up with a few key considerations to factor in when distinguishing what is a "computer/PC game" and a "video/console game". Using logical statements I have determined that Console/Video games are NOT computer games.
Is a console a type of computer? Yes, I will give it that but other than that a PC and a console game bear very few similarities. As you can tell I have a slanted (PC gamer) but realistic view on how Computer/PC games and Video/Console games are different things.
@ 2007-01-13T15:37Z
I think I agree with one point M jurrens has, on marketing issues. If we were trapped, living exclusively in the late 90's early 2000's, some of his console points MIGHT have some validity, but really not.
Console Games
1) Not typically written for RISC. Most are written in C++ and assembly language for a large variety of microprocessors!
2) Some arcade games are built on PC architecture and copy-protection schemes aside can could run on a PC with no emulation. Also many early European console games were ports of European computer games, in fact in Japan and Europe PC/Console was in many cases the same thing. In the US, the Intelevision PC/Console existed.
3) An X-Box is a PC, the Amiga CD-32 was a PC, etc... etc... there are examples.
4) Host consoles are designed to run an operating system, it's just usually a proprietary OS for that platform, for early consoles it was burned into firmware, modern systems it's on the media.
5) Console games are not "only written" for one platform. Console games are tuned to work with one system sometimes, or in many cases, they are written for multiple consoles so that ports can be easily accomplished, and they are frequently written for Windows first.
6) Yes, console games are marketed differently, this is the only point I will consede and it is not enough of a point to say console games are special in some way.
Computer/PC Games
1) Oh please, PC games have been written for every kind of PC you can imagine with every kind of CPU architecture you can think of. Do I need to list the hundreds of PC platforms here?
2) Oh, you're talking about windows games. I see, how about console games that are written and tested on Windows and then compiled with #defines so that they run on the console.
Some other highlights, FarCry on the Xbox allows you to make new level maps to freely share with others. A keyboard was shipped for the GameCube for playing an on-line RPG. Playing online games on the Wii requires no subscription fee for anything... do I need to counter every single one of these points as invalid?
If someone invented a console tomorrow that allowed programmers to be pigs, then they would replicate all of these behaviors to their console development. As it is, we already now have patch/repair cycles in console games which 10 years ago was a chief argument point for people trying to segregate them. If tomorrow every console came with a super high resolution mouse, the games would use it. Games are written to make use of what is commonly available for the platform.
Look, face it guys, video games are video games regardless the platform. Just because you want to belive you're platform of choice is special, doesn't make it special. It's just another platform. BcRIPster 20:46, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
@ 2007-01-17T02:24Z
Ok, so why havent they merged console with computer? Or just simply call consoles, "gaming computers"? Granted they are similar, but I dont see putting an computer game into a console and having it work. 68.1.145.121 05:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
@ 2007-01-17T06:25Z
I aggree with all of you, but there should be two distinctions of the term in the same article 8if you chose to keep it as one. Compare and contrast the too. Compare how they are allike mabey in the same sub article and contrast in the same article. I just hate how over generalized this all is in it's current state. M jurrens 18:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
This article requires cleanup. It needs to be written with a NPOV. Spell check is needed as well. Pac-man image needs fixing. Jacroe | Talk 19:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED, and then moved again to Video games, per discussion below, and per "video game" not being a proper noun. Wish I'd caught that before fixing 10 double-redirects. - GTBacchus( talk) 04:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Computer and video games → Video Games — Title currently confuses a Platform with a Genre, misusing the term "video games" BcRIPster 05:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
@ 2007-01-18T17:04Z
This move would require a complete re-write of the opening paragraphs, which should then help clear up alot of the confusion and misuse of terminology. BcRIPster 05:49, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't necessarily disagree with the reasons behind the nomination, but the suggestion for the new name is wrong. "Video Games" is not a proper noun, so "Games" should not be capitalized. It might also need to be at the singular "Video game" instead of the plural, but that is more debatable. Recury 18:16, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I just realized something. Shouldn't we be moving to "video game" (singular) and not "video games"?-- SeizureDog 09:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
See the rewrite for the suggested new opening text. — Frecklefoot | Talk 22:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Video Game/s
Apples and oranges are fruit, but not the same. I agree with digital convergance statements these are true. But these industries, console gaming and pc gaming, apparently want these games to have distinct identities. The structure I propose provides an unbiased way of looking at all video games, and then drills down the specifics. Any gamer, programmer, 3d artist, developer, producer, on any platform with any operating system would be happy to contribute and have a place to add thier perspective evenly and fairly. M jurrens 17:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
A consensus is fairly clear in the discussion you started above. You should continue that discussion rather than essentially bringing it up again in another form. This vote is a waste of time. --
mattb @ 2007-01-19T20:35Z
Ok we all agree that computer and video games, should be merged into video games and the individual genres should also recieve attention, but how much detail and how these articles are composed is what I am trying to get at now. How will the information be cross referenced, what about the devices too, they need some mention of games too, so they should have links to thier perspective game types. Linking, distribution, and structure of article content is my debate. I would like to know the best way to present the information as a collection of articles. What should be included where.... and how much of it? That question makes the vote valid. M jurrens 20:42, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
You apear to be a leader in this community so your opinion would be most qualified IMO. Therefor I think for the most part we can all procede with the consesus from the vote before mine as well, that yes we should move elements that are general to video games, elements pertaining to PC gaming to PC gaming, console gaming elements to Video game console, or create an article about Console gaming platform. Then I think we should do as you have said and break out and add to the genre article series, then link it all to Video games and mention in the genre articles which platforms they are commanly written for. We should use supporting information contained in this article in the video game article that gives a decent overview of platforms and genres and deal with the specifics it the perspective, platform and genre articles. Unless there are aany objections we would just mention the changes as we go and everyone can contribute and work at it. It is wikipededia so we are all free to contribute and modify as long as we remain within the consesus of what is believed to be the ideal way of going about it. M jurrens 00:13, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
This page was moved from computer and video games to here, video games. But this is incorrect, it should be video game (singular) per Wikipedia standards! Can someone please fix this?
Also, the opening text was not replaced with the rewrite, which we haven't even finished yet! Please chime in here with any further comments. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
You're right, it should be at Video game. I'll fix that; it was my mistake. As for "jumping the gun" on the move, I completed the move because the request had been listed at WP:RM for more than five days, and was in the backlog section. I didn't realize the move was to be delayed until some rewriting had occurred, and I'm not sure what harm there is in going ahead and completing the move while rewrites are still in progress. If there's something I'm still missing, please feel free to let me know. - GTBacchus( talk) 23:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Now that this step is moving along, I would say we need help in propagating this restructure out across all of the "CVG" space. Any thoughts? BcRIPster 22:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I started to day from the top down working on catagories and other pages fixing CVG->VG... any help would be appriciated. BcRIPster 17:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
...I don't know if anyone's doing a project page yet (I can try and set one up later tonight when I have chance), but I've finished correcting: "Category:Lists of computer and video game characters" to-> " Category:Lists of video game characters" and all of the pages that point to it. Whew... BcRIPster 22:10, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to mention that I've been working on fixing links from CVG->VG manually in articles for about three days now, upon suggestion from another editor. I've fixed somewhere close to 1000 of these links, so far. I find fixing links interesting, and I'm sure there will be more to be done, so please leave a note on my talk page with instructions if I can help. Thanks! *Vendetta* (whois talk edits) 21:33, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
You keep revising this so that it is full of definitive statements on things that are not true. Also, you keep expanding this header. The introduction to this article is intended to be succinct as you would find in a summary as there are extend expansions in the lower parts of the article... followed by longer expansions on each topics own stand alone page. Loading up the top is redundant and verbose. BcRIPster 01:16, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
@ 2007-02-01T22:02Z
@ 2007-02-01T22:24Z
Frecklefoot, I went ahead and took the article back to the version before this series of events but I tried to incorporate a few of the suggestions that have come out of the talks such as cutting down the info about controllers and dropping the "interactive entertaiment" bit (which could go someplace else that expands on industry terminology). BcRIPster 04:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
In regards to BcRIPster's statement above, thanks. I still think it could be better and simpler (as mattb and I prefer), but I'm not going to edit right now. Let's discuss here what the opening paragraph should state. Then, when we are all in agreement, we can go ahead and change it on the article.
No, this is not the normal wiki-way. But since this game is so high profile and so many editors want a say in what goes into the opening, I think this is the way we should handle it. Otherwise, we'll just go on reverting and stepping on each other's fingers.
My vote for the first sentence in the opening is what I stated above, namely:
Please add your comments on this opening sentence below. I think we can move onto the rest of the paragraph (which can discuss things such as controllers, etc.) after we have this hammered out. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:12, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, then, to revive this topic, how's:
Are we ready to tackle the second sentence? Does everyone agree on this version? — Frecklefoot | Talk 17:03, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, so we're up to:
I understand you being occupied with other stuff. Personally, I'm taking off in a couple of days and would like to see this resolved before then. If not, s'okay, life goes on... — Frecklefoot | Talk 21:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
FWIW, I've been working to come up with a good analogy to this whole situation, and I think the best comparison is the efforts to get people to quit labeling all animated programs as "cartoons". A cartoon is generally considered to be something comical or exaggerated. Programs like Lain, or the movie Ghost in the Shell 2 are not comical by any stretch of the imagination, but that doesn't stop U.S. readers from calling them cartoons because they are animated. Calling them cartoons confuses people and then you get parents taking their kids to watch Spirited Away as a "Disney cartoon" and not getting what they expected. Should we still call them cartoons? I don't think so, and slowly but surely the terminology is getting corrected in common usage. But, there will always be people spitting fire that if it's animated it's a cartoon, or whatever... or if it's not a cartoon then it can only be anime, but anime is considered to be the label for all Japanese animation (including comical), so where does U.S. based, adult (not porn) themed animation go for a label?!? But, that's another fight for another day, on another page =) BcRIPster 16:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
There have been many studies where they have compared a "Video game brain" to a Non video game brained person has actually been catscaned, and the results are astonishing! Does game http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16099971/ (posted by 205.123.123.204 on 18:19, 14 February 2007)
You are way over reaching, and your statement is wrong. The article did not say video games are bad for you. The implication of the article is that violent video games may be bad in that they reward violent thinking (and it goes on to speculate that this might apply to all media). There are many studies to show that video games in general also help stimulate higher reason skills and co-ordination (positive). There are also studies yet that show that intense, extended play within simulated 3-D environments has an impact on depth perception (possible negative?). What's your point other than attacking games in general? BcRIPster 20:40, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
This article should include the claimed hazards of playing video games that some psychologists have widely lectured, just like the concerns of the overuse of television. For example: violent video games teaches kids that the only solution to a problem is to destroy it without personal investigation, patience etc. and that it takes their sensitivity away from real life violence/suffering.
So this article should include it too if it wishes to be complete, informative and neutral. Or maybe it should be split in two sections: the positive and negative impacts of playing video games.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.146.236.11 ( talk • contribs).
-- Search for the word "gay" and "your mom" Spixels 20:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
--The opening of this bit should read a little differently. As it is right now, the implication is that every game on the PC is meant to be modified, which is really untrue. A proper opening might say that the PC environment (being able to see/edit back-end files for a game) lends itself to modification, and indeed some games are made with end-user modifications in mind.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.151.234 ( talk • contribs).
This article would be allot more interesting if it had some more pictures to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.253.187 ( talk • contribs)
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