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can someone explain why is says only 2 have been awardered?!?!?! the list i have (2008) says theres 6 for the boer war, 67 for WW1 (9 of those from gallipoli) 2 for russia, 20 for WW2 and 4 for vietnam, thats 102!!! not 2! why is there only the two from 2009 and 2011 not the others? 58.167.196.164 ( talk) 07:31, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
In the UK, the Victoria Cross and George Cross are held in equally high esteem and this has led to the incorrect claim which can even be found in UK government media releases that they are equivalent awards. The British Order of Wear is quite explicit that the George Cross ranks immediately below the Victoria Cross. Sadly, the George Cross has been the poor cousin of the Victoria Cross in Australia and more sadly the Cross of Valour has been completely overshadowed by the VC for Australia. The claim in the right hand box that the Cross of Valour is equivalent to the VC for Australia is contradicted not supported by the two references quoted. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 00:38, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
--Order of Wear is not the same thing as precedence. On the page for the Victoria Cross it has a sourced reference (reference no. 52) which says the George Cross has equal precedence to the Victoria Cross, but is awarded second because it is newer (ie, it is second in the Order of Wear). The Order of Wear does not really relate to how awards rank in relation to each other. It's the precedence that determines the rank of one award in relation to another. The George Cross was clearly intended to rank alongside the Victoria Cross (reference is on the George Cross page, reference no.5, said by King George VI), and the Cross of Valour is just an Australian replacement award for the George Cross, with equal precedence to it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.157.98 ( talk) 23:40, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
My recent edit has been reverted: I changed "highest honour" to "highest military" honour. pdfpdf said: To say it is the highest military award implies that there is a civil award that is higher. There isn't. Quite simply, it is the highest award." It does not imply any such thing. The civilian George Cross/Cross of Valour is equal in the Australian honours system to the VC. My edit should stand. Marchino61 ( talk) 00:00, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
I just noticed that the article has not yet been updated in regards to the finalised Defence Honours and Awards Tribunal's "Inquiry into unresolved recognition for past acts of naval and military gallantry and valour". The report was finalised and submitted to Government on 6 February 2013, recommending that no retrospective awards be made (among other things). See here. I don't really have the time at the moment to update the article, but will do so tomorrow if someone hasn't beaten me to it. :) Cheers, Abraham, B.S. ( talk) 11:57, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. The request was withdrawn by the nominator. ( non-admin closure) — Jkudlick • t • c • s 09:18, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
Victoria Cross for Australia →
Victoria Cross (Australia) – Her Majesty's Australian Government refers to the award only as the
Victoria Cross; similarly, the Her Majesty's Canadian Government refers to their award only as the
Victoria Cross, whereas Her Majesty's New Zealand Government calls their award the
Victoria Cross for New Zealand. Per the
policy on article titles, it seems that the proper disambiguation would then be to use the country name in parentheses, as in
Victoria Cross (Canada), to further disambiguate from the
Victoria Cross.
I am requesting this move via WP:RM rather than being WP:BOLD simply because of the article's featured status. — Jkudlick • t • c • s 07:48, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
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What does 'awards are granted by the Governor-General with the approval of the Sovereign' mean? If it is a delegation, which under the Imperial system the Governor-Generals of Australia, Canada and New Zealand had to grant MIDs and commendations, then it should be written 'awards are approved by the Governor-General under the delegation given by the Sovereign'. If the Sovereign approves awards on the advice of the Governor-General of Australia, then the Governor-General of Australia does not grant the award. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 15:38, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
I withdraw my comment that Defence Honours and Awards Manual trumps the Regulations in meeting the KIS principle’ since on reflection both sources state the Queen approves the VCfA. The Regulations state ‘Awards of the decoration shall be made with the approval of the Sovereign …’ The Defence Honours and Awards Manual states the VCfA is the ‘only award that is personally approved by the Sovereign’. In addition, the Commonwealth of Australia Gazette Special Gazette No. S 10, 20 January 2009 states that ‘It is notified for general information that Her Majesty The Queen has approved the award of the Victoria Cross for Australia to: Trooper Mark Gregor DONALDSON.’ Perhaps it is a legal fiction. However, the Defence Manual, the Regulation and the Gazette all say the Queen approves VCfA awards. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 13:03, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
First line of the third paragraph includes subject to review by the Defence Honours and Awards Appeal Tribunal'. Could someone elaborate and include a reference?.
The date 12 August 2020 is mentioned four times. It suggests that it is the date approved and/or awarded but the reference, a media release from the Prime Minister dated 12 August 2020 does not indicate when the Queens approved the award.
I think the tradition of the British Victoria Cross should be followed by the VCfA and the date of the gazette should be noted. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 01:24, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Victoria Cross for Australia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | Victoria Cross for Australia is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | Victoria Cross for Australia is part of the Victoria Cross series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 7, 2009. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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can someone explain why is says only 2 have been awardered?!?!?! the list i have (2008) says theres 6 for the boer war, 67 for WW1 (9 of those from gallipoli) 2 for russia, 20 for WW2 and 4 for vietnam, thats 102!!! not 2! why is there only the two from 2009 and 2011 not the others? 58.167.196.164 ( talk) 07:31, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
In the UK, the Victoria Cross and George Cross are held in equally high esteem and this has led to the incorrect claim which can even be found in UK government media releases that they are equivalent awards. The British Order of Wear is quite explicit that the George Cross ranks immediately below the Victoria Cross. Sadly, the George Cross has been the poor cousin of the Victoria Cross in Australia and more sadly the Cross of Valour has been completely overshadowed by the VC for Australia. The claim in the right hand box that the Cross of Valour is equivalent to the VC for Australia is contradicted not supported by the two references quoted. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 00:38, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
--Order of Wear is not the same thing as precedence. On the page for the Victoria Cross it has a sourced reference (reference no. 52) which says the George Cross has equal precedence to the Victoria Cross, but is awarded second because it is newer (ie, it is second in the Order of Wear). The Order of Wear does not really relate to how awards rank in relation to each other. It's the precedence that determines the rank of one award in relation to another. The George Cross was clearly intended to rank alongside the Victoria Cross (reference is on the George Cross page, reference no.5, said by King George VI), and the Cross of Valour is just an Australian replacement award for the George Cross, with equal precedence to it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.157.98 ( talk) 23:40, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
My recent edit has been reverted: I changed "highest honour" to "highest military" honour. pdfpdf said: To say it is the highest military award implies that there is a civil award that is higher. There isn't. Quite simply, it is the highest award." It does not imply any such thing. The civilian George Cross/Cross of Valour is equal in the Australian honours system to the VC. My edit should stand. Marchino61 ( talk) 00:00, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
I just noticed that the article has not yet been updated in regards to the finalised Defence Honours and Awards Tribunal's "Inquiry into unresolved recognition for past acts of naval and military gallantry and valour". The report was finalised and submitted to Government on 6 February 2013, recommending that no retrospective awards be made (among other things). See here. I don't really have the time at the moment to update the article, but will do so tomorrow if someone hasn't beaten me to it. :) Cheers, Abraham, B.S. ( talk) 11:57, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. The request was withdrawn by the nominator. ( non-admin closure) — Jkudlick • t • c • s 09:18, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
Victoria Cross for Australia →
Victoria Cross (Australia) – Her Majesty's Australian Government refers to the award only as the
Victoria Cross; similarly, the Her Majesty's Canadian Government refers to their award only as the
Victoria Cross, whereas Her Majesty's New Zealand Government calls their award the
Victoria Cross for New Zealand. Per the
policy on article titles, it seems that the proper disambiguation would then be to use the country name in parentheses, as in
Victoria Cross (Canada), to further disambiguate from the
Victoria Cross.
I am requesting this move via WP:RM rather than being WP:BOLD simply because of the article's featured status. — Jkudlick • t • c • s 07:48, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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What does 'awards are granted by the Governor-General with the approval of the Sovereign' mean? If it is a delegation, which under the Imperial system the Governor-Generals of Australia, Canada and New Zealand had to grant MIDs and commendations, then it should be written 'awards are approved by the Governor-General under the delegation given by the Sovereign'. If the Sovereign approves awards on the advice of the Governor-General of Australia, then the Governor-General of Australia does not grant the award. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 15:38, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
I withdraw my comment that Defence Honours and Awards Manual trumps the Regulations in meeting the KIS principle’ since on reflection both sources state the Queen approves the VCfA. The Regulations state ‘Awards of the decoration shall be made with the approval of the Sovereign …’ The Defence Honours and Awards Manual states the VCfA is the ‘only award that is personally approved by the Sovereign’. In addition, the Commonwealth of Australia Gazette Special Gazette No. S 10, 20 January 2009 states that ‘It is notified for general information that Her Majesty The Queen has approved the award of the Victoria Cross for Australia to: Trooper Mark Gregor DONALDSON.’ Perhaps it is a legal fiction. However, the Defence Manual, the Regulation and the Gazette all say the Queen approves VCfA awards. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 13:03, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
First line of the third paragraph includes subject to review by the Defence Honours and Awards Appeal Tribunal'. Could someone elaborate and include a reference?.
The date 12 August 2020 is mentioned four times. It suggests that it is the date approved and/or awarded but the reference, a media release from the Prime Minister dated 12 August 2020 does not indicate when the Queens approved the award.
I think the tradition of the British Victoria Cross should be followed by the VCfA and the date of the gazette should be noted. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 01:24, 17 June 2021 (UTC)