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Did this award happen as predicted? The article is now out of date and needs updating by someone who knows. Loganberry ( Talk) 01:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm putting the article on hold, for the following reasons :
- Flubeca Talk 00:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
This article has passed the GA noms. A few suggestions to improve this article would be to add a few more references, and add more information to various sections. If you disagree with this statement feel free to take it to WP:GA/R. Tarret 01:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Wow, look at those internet drama. First put on hold by Flubeca, then passed by Tarret after 43 mins, 9 mins later Giggy spotted FUR problem, couple of days later Tarret replied why he took over the review. Anyways, back to topic, Flubeca's points are valid, I am concerned about no reference on the lead section "receipent gets $3000 per year". Since nobody improved it drammatically for over a month, I'm going to delist it now. OhanaUnited Talk page 14:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Due to the rather ignominious circumstances of its promotion and subsequent delisting i have put it up for GA review. Woodym555 10:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
This page was recently moved from Victoria Cross (Canada). The move was obviously made for the sensible reason of wanting it to be similar to Victoria Cross for Australia and Victoria Cross for New Zealand, however, I think the move was ill-advised. In a discussion here the correct naming convention for the VC for which Canadian service personnel are eligible was discussed. The only official reference available was the Medals Yearbook 2005 which called the New Zealand VC the Victoria Cross for New Zealand, the Australian one the Victoria Cross for Australia, and the Canadian one the Victoria Cross (Canada). I suggested that the Canadian VC was in fact merely called the Victoria Cross, but that (it differing from the British Original) it has been noted as Victoria Cross (Canada) to avoid confusion - i.e. the Australians award the Victoria Cross for Australia, New Zealand awards the Victoria Cross for New Zealand, and both Canada and the UK award something called the Victoria Cross. Calling the page Victoria Cross (Canada) is therefore most likely accurate - the (Canada) bit is for disambiguation.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Quadparty ( talk • contribs)
$3,000 per year was abolished in 1990. See http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/si90-95/whole.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.16.117 ( talk) 00:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
The annuity in the 1990 Gallantry Awards Order refers to the Victoria Cross. It does not refer to the Canadian Victoria Cross which was not established until 1993. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 01:31, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Dear fellow contributors
MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, having evolved over the past year or so from the mandatory to the optional after much discussion there and elsewhere of the disadvantages of the system. Related to this, MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether or not dates are autoformatted. MOSLINK and CONTEXT are consistent with this.
There are at least six disadvantages in using date-autoformatting, which I've capped here:
Removal has generally been met with positive responses by editors. I'm seeking feedback about this proposal to remove it from the main text (using a script) in about a week's time on a trial basis/ The original input formatting would be seen by all WPians, not just the huge number of visitors; it would be plain, unobtrusive text, which would give greater prominence to the high-value links. Tony (talk) 08:51, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
This article needs a creation and a design section, as I know for a fact that the Canadian VC was designed differently, and created with different metals than the Great Britian VC. I can provide some images if that is what is required, or maybe some references, but this is needed. -- Cheers mate! CYCLONICWHIRLWIND talk 03:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Aren't Newfies Canadians by definition? ColDickPeters ( talk) 15:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I've retitled the notes and footnotes sections as per WP:REFNOTE, which states, in particular, that "A separate section containing references is usually given the title 'References', while the explanatory notes section retains the 'Notes' title." As for the bibliography, as I explained in my edit summary, its contents are not, as far as I can tell, references for the article, but are instead there for further reading on the subject; I removed from that section books that are already present in the references. -- Ħ MIESIANIACAL 11:48, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
To offer another explanation: I've restored my note format, as it automatically numbers the notes, as opposed to Woody's method, which requires manual tracking to make sure a note's number matches the order of its corresponding inline tag. -- Ħ MIESIANIACAL 19:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
The Criteria section seems to suggest that the Canadian VC can be awarded by ballot to representative officers and men in unit which has distinguished itself. This was part of the original Imperial Warrant but as a practice was discontinued around WW1. Has this been revived for the Canadian medal, or is it there in error? The provided reference merely quotes the original Warrant, with no specific reference to Canada or indeed to the fact that Imperial balloted awards were discontinued.
Xdamr talk 00:51, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
|supp=
(
help)). 21 July 1997., the current warrant for the (Imperial) VC is that of 30 September 1961 (as amended), but I've haven't maanged to trace the publication of that yet to see if the provision does actually remain in force, albeit unused. Really we do need to trace a copy of the Canadian Warrant, it must have been published somewhere.
David Underdown (
talk)
12:18, 19 August 2009 (UTC)There seems to be some confusion about the awarding of medals to Unknown Soldiers: A couple of times now, editors have changed the text to: "The American Unknown Soldier is presented the Medal of Honor while the British Unknown Soldier is presented the British Victoria Cross." This is not the case, however; in fact, the opposite is true: The American Unknown Soldier was presented with the British Victoria Cross while the British Unknown Soldier was presented with the Medal of Honor. It was an exchange of medals between nations, not nations awarding themselves medals. The simple exchange of decorations does somehow appear more complex than it actually was; but, we must be careful not confound ourselves and, consequently, Wikipedia readers. -- Ħ MIESIANIACAL 05:59, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Canada doesn't have and never has had Marines. Admittedly, there is some confusion as the Navy is often referred to as "Marine" in French, but if one is speak of a detached body of sailors, in English, they are referred to as "sailors", and not "marines".
I think the idea of the example is valid (ie. to explain a detached body), but the terminology would lead to confusion.
Anyone have any better ways to phrase it? CyprianH ( talk) 03:08, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Surely by far the most important point is that nobody has ever been awarded the medal? That it can be awarded more than once is surely an academic point that doesn't belong in the lede, let alone as a non-sequitur introduction to the key point. I have deleted the "may be awarded twice" bit from the lede: if frequent editors believe it is a critical inclusion then at least reword it so that it follows the key point, not introduces it! -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 12:12, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
The first two sentences should be amended: Delete ‘military decoration’ an inaccurate contrived Wikipedia definition Delete ‘modelled on the original British Victoria Cross’ since the name Canadian Victoria Cross makes that obvious. Delete ‘several small changes’ which is an understated description for a significant design change and complete production change. (The inclusion of Canadian flora is subtle but the inscription on the scroll was a major change.) Delete ‘and the original are the’ and add ‘is’ since the last Canadian Victoria Cross recipient has died and the Victoria Cross instituted by Queen Victoria is not listed in the Canadian Honours System publication Wearing of orders, decorations and medals at http://www.gg.ca/honours/pdf/wearing_e.pdf The opening would then read ‘The Canadian Victoria Cross (French: Croix de Victoria), created in 1993, is the highest award of the Canadian honours system taking precedence over all other orders, decorations, and medals.’ Anthony Staunton ( talk) 02:53, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
The anon who's persistently reverting should explain his/her objections here. -- ₪ MIESIANIACAL 02:22, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
The second criteria paragraph deals with elected British Victoria Cross awards which are still in the warrant but have been unused since 1918. If there is a similar provision for the Canadian VC then reference can be made to the British Warrant but it does not need the whole section 13 from the original 1856 warrant repeated in a note since the clause was modified and expanded in 1920. If there is no such provision then the paragraph should be deleted. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 03:56, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
The references used all seem to be secondary sources. Is there any government document or regulation that outlines the criteria for the Canadian VC? Anthony Staunton ( talk) 02:59, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
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Is the name of the decoration Victoria Cross (Canada) or the Canadian Victoria Cross?
The first sentence should be about the Canadian VC and then mention that it was named in honour of the British VC which was awarded to the Canadian military between 1900 and 1946.
I suggest the Canadian VC will be ‘presented’ rather than ‘awarded’ by either the Canadian monarch or the Governor General of Canada.
Citation needed for the statement that it can, unlike the British VC, be awarded to allies.
The phrase ‘many other Commonwealth countries’ suggests more than two or three if Britain is counted.
By defining the term enemy, the Canadian government has limited rather than broadened the term. The British VC Warrant does not define the term enemy. Other than the aberration of the two world wars, most wars and many VCs have been awarded without war being officially declared.
There were 16 posthumous awards between 1857 and 1902 before policy changed in 1907 to explicitly allow posthumous awards in future although the warrant was not amended until 1920.
The last clause of the sub heading Origin, ‘thereby ceasing Canadian dependence on the British honours system’ should be dropped. Except for a short period in the thirties there were no Canadian honours from 1918 except for the Second World War and Korea. The last British gallantry awards recommended by Canada were gazetted in 1968. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 15:28, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Victoria Cross (Canada) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | It has been decided that the Victoria Cross available to Canadian personnel should remain at Victoria Cross (Canada). For the discussion that led to this decision see the discussion here and the additional comments in a section of User:Xdamr's talk page. |
![]() | Victoria Cross (Canada) is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | Victoria Cross (Canada) is part of the Victoria Cross series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 25, 2010. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Did this award happen as predicted? The article is now out of date and needs updating by someone who knows. Loganberry ( Talk) 01:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm putting the article on hold, for the following reasons :
- Flubeca Talk 00:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
This article has passed the GA noms. A few suggestions to improve this article would be to add a few more references, and add more information to various sections. If you disagree with this statement feel free to take it to WP:GA/R. Tarret 01:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Wow, look at those internet drama. First put on hold by Flubeca, then passed by Tarret after 43 mins, 9 mins later Giggy spotted FUR problem, couple of days later Tarret replied why he took over the review. Anyways, back to topic, Flubeca's points are valid, I am concerned about no reference on the lead section "receipent gets $3000 per year". Since nobody improved it drammatically for over a month, I'm going to delist it now. OhanaUnited Talk page 14:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Due to the rather ignominious circumstances of its promotion and subsequent delisting i have put it up for GA review. Woodym555 10:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
This page was recently moved from Victoria Cross (Canada). The move was obviously made for the sensible reason of wanting it to be similar to Victoria Cross for Australia and Victoria Cross for New Zealand, however, I think the move was ill-advised. In a discussion here the correct naming convention for the VC for which Canadian service personnel are eligible was discussed. The only official reference available was the Medals Yearbook 2005 which called the New Zealand VC the Victoria Cross for New Zealand, the Australian one the Victoria Cross for Australia, and the Canadian one the Victoria Cross (Canada). I suggested that the Canadian VC was in fact merely called the Victoria Cross, but that (it differing from the British Original) it has been noted as Victoria Cross (Canada) to avoid confusion - i.e. the Australians award the Victoria Cross for Australia, New Zealand awards the Victoria Cross for New Zealand, and both Canada and the UK award something called the Victoria Cross. Calling the page Victoria Cross (Canada) is therefore most likely accurate - the (Canada) bit is for disambiguation.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Quadparty ( talk • contribs)
$3,000 per year was abolished in 1990. See http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/si90-95/whole.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.16.117 ( talk) 00:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
The annuity in the 1990 Gallantry Awards Order refers to the Victoria Cross. It does not refer to the Canadian Victoria Cross which was not established until 1993. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 01:31, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Dear fellow contributors
MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, having evolved over the past year or so from the mandatory to the optional after much discussion there and elsewhere of the disadvantages of the system. Related to this, MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether or not dates are autoformatted. MOSLINK and CONTEXT are consistent with this.
There are at least six disadvantages in using date-autoformatting, which I've capped here:
Removal has generally been met with positive responses by editors. I'm seeking feedback about this proposal to remove it from the main text (using a script) in about a week's time on a trial basis/ The original input formatting would be seen by all WPians, not just the huge number of visitors; it would be plain, unobtrusive text, which would give greater prominence to the high-value links. Tony (talk) 08:51, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
This article needs a creation and a design section, as I know for a fact that the Canadian VC was designed differently, and created with different metals than the Great Britian VC. I can provide some images if that is what is required, or maybe some references, but this is needed. -- Cheers mate! CYCLONICWHIRLWIND talk 03:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Aren't Newfies Canadians by definition? ColDickPeters ( talk) 15:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I've retitled the notes and footnotes sections as per WP:REFNOTE, which states, in particular, that "A separate section containing references is usually given the title 'References', while the explanatory notes section retains the 'Notes' title." As for the bibliography, as I explained in my edit summary, its contents are not, as far as I can tell, references for the article, but are instead there for further reading on the subject; I removed from that section books that are already present in the references. -- Ħ MIESIANIACAL 11:48, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
To offer another explanation: I've restored my note format, as it automatically numbers the notes, as opposed to Woody's method, which requires manual tracking to make sure a note's number matches the order of its corresponding inline tag. -- Ħ MIESIANIACAL 19:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
The Criteria section seems to suggest that the Canadian VC can be awarded by ballot to representative officers and men in unit which has distinguished itself. This was part of the original Imperial Warrant but as a practice was discontinued around WW1. Has this been revived for the Canadian medal, or is it there in error? The provided reference merely quotes the original Warrant, with no specific reference to Canada or indeed to the fact that Imperial balloted awards were discontinued.
Xdamr talk 00:51, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
|supp=
(
help)). 21 July 1997., the current warrant for the (Imperial) VC is that of 30 September 1961 (as amended), but I've haven't maanged to trace the publication of that yet to see if the provision does actually remain in force, albeit unused. Really we do need to trace a copy of the Canadian Warrant, it must have been published somewhere.
David Underdown (
talk)
12:18, 19 August 2009 (UTC)There seems to be some confusion about the awarding of medals to Unknown Soldiers: A couple of times now, editors have changed the text to: "The American Unknown Soldier is presented the Medal of Honor while the British Unknown Soldier is presented the British Victoria Cross." This is not the case, however; in fact, the opposite is true: The American Unknown Soldier was presented with the British Victoria Cross while the British Unknown Soldier was presented with the Medal of Honor. It was an exchange of medals between nations, not nations awarding themselves medals. The simple exchange of decorations does somehow appear more complex than it actually was; but, we must be careful not confound ourselves and, consequently, Wikipedia readers. -- Ħ MIESIANIACAL 05:59, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Canada doesn't have and never has had Marines. Admittedly, there is some confusion as the Navy is often referred to as "Marine" in French, but if one is speak of a detached body of sailors, in English, they are referred to as "sailors", and not "marines".
I think the idea of the example is valid (ie. to explain a detached body), but the terminology would lead to confusion.
Anyone have any better ways to phrase it? CyprianH ( talk) 03:08, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Surely by far the most important point is that nobody has ever been awarded the medal? That it can be awarded more than once is surely an academic point that doesn't belong in the lede, let alone as a non-sequitur introduction to the key point. I have deleted the "may be awarded twice" bit from the lede: if frequent editors believe it is a critical inclusion then at least reword it so that it follows the key point, not introduces it! -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 12:12, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
The first two sentences should be amended: Delete ‘military decoration’ an inaccurate contrived Wikipedia definition Delete ‘modelled on the original British Victoria Cross’ since the name Canadian Victoria Cross makes that obvious. Delete ‘several small changes’ which is an understated description for a significant design change and complete production change. (The inclusion of Canadian flora is subtle but the inscription on the scroll was a major change.) Delete ‘and the original are the’ and add ‘is’ since the last Canadian Victoria Cross recipient has died and the Victoria Cross instituted by Queen Victoria is not listed in the Canadian Honours System publication Wearing of orders, decorations and medals at http://www.gg.ca/honours/pdf/wearing_e.pdf The opening would then read ‘The Canadian Victoria Cross (French: Croix de Victoria), created in 1993, is the highest award of the Canadian honours system taking precedence over all other orders, decorations, and medals.’ Anthony Staunton ( talk) 02:53, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
The anon who's persistently reverting should explain his/her objections here. -- ₪ MIESIANIACAL 02:22, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
The second criteria paragraph deals with elected British Victoria Cross awards which are still in the warrant but have been unused since 1918. If there is a similar provision for the Canadian VC then reference can be made to the British Warrant but it does not need the whole section 13 from the original 1856 warrant repeated in a note since the clause was modified and expanded in 1920. If there is no such provision then the paragraph should be deleted. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 03:56, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
The references used all seem to be secondary sources. Is there any government document or regulation that outlines the criteria for the Canadian VC? Anthony Staunton ( talk) 02:59, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
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Is the name of the decoration Victoria Cross (Canada) or the Canadian Victoria Cross?
The first sentence should be about the Canadian VC and then mention that it was named in honour of the British VC which was awarded to the Canadian military between 1900 and 1946.
I suggest the Canadian VC will be ‘presented’ rather than ‘awarded’ by either the Canadian monarch or the Governor General of Canada.
Citation needed for the statement that it can, unlike the British VC, be awarded to allies.
The phrase ‘many other Commonwealth countries’ suggests more than two or three if Britain is counted.
By defining the term enemy, the Canadian government has limited rather than broadened the term. The British VC Warrant does not define the term enemy. Other than the aberration of the two world wars, most wars and many VCs have been awarded without war being officially declared.
There were 16 posthumous awards between 1857 and 1902 before policy changed in 1907 to explicitly allow posthumous awards in future although the warrant was not amended until 1920.
The last clause of the sub heading Origin, ‘thereby ceasing Canadian dependence on the British honours system’ should be dropped. Except for a short period in the thirties there were no Canadian honours from 1918 except for the Second World War and Korea. The last British gallantry awards recommended by Canada were gazetted in 1968. Anthony Staunton ( talk) 15:28, 27 January 2018 (UTC)