This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Every time I come to this page, I remove (or want to but am too lazy) a bunch of irrelevant information that appears to be written by someone who feels that veterinarians/vet students don't get the respect they deserve. This page should not be a comparison to medical school, and there are few instances where it is actually useful to make that comparison. Just a few examples that I have come across today: "Unlike in adult human medicine, vets must rely on clinical signs, as animals are unable to vocalise symptoms as a human would." What encylopedic information does this sentence contain? Are there many people who think that animals can talk? Is it likely that someone reading this article needs to be informed that animals talk and humans don't? The section on "veterinary curriculum comparison to human medicine" contained paragraphs of redundant information, stating that subject A is more complex in veterinary medicine, subject B is more complex in veterinary medicine, subject C is more complex in veterinary medicine... etc. I can see how it might be useful for someone to create a web page, or edit their school's career counseling page, with this information, but this is an encyclopedia. Why not just lay out what the veterinary curriculum is like? If someone wants to compare it to medicine, let them read this, and then read the medicine article.
I myself am a vet student, and I understand where you're coming from... but please, keep in mind that this is an encyclopedic article on the veterinary profession, not a web forum where you can vent your frustration or build your ego. Dr.queso ( talk) 17:31, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
SUP PEOPLES!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know only one state in the United States offers the VMD (Veterinary Medical Doctor title instead of the standard DVM (Doctor of Veterinary Medicine)I know only one state in the United States offers the VMD (Veterinary Medical Doctor) title instead of the standard DVM (Doctor of Veterinary Mediciiǚne) for doctors. What state is that? And should you become a doctor, can you use either title or do you have to use the title they give you? -- Admiral Roo 12:50, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
As per your question "Can you use either title?". There is no real advantage to using one title over another. DVM and VMD are the same degree. The only difference is that UPenn chose to call their graduates VMD's. The UPenn degree and diploma is written in latin, and this seems to be the logistical reason why those letters get switched around. Ultimately, there is no advantage to having a DVM instead of a VMD or vice versa.
Since I'm categorizing these tonight, I'll add a belated confirmation of the above. Dad (may he RIP) was always Dr. Frank A. Bartus, VMD—an alumni of University of Pennsylvania, stated correctly above. My sister's degree from Penn State University is DVM. I do believe there were several other schools, also Ivy league, IIRC, that awarded the VMD, but recently (well, to me—sometime in the last 30-35 years!) switched over to the DVM like lemmings over a cliff. Fra nkB 05:11, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't believe there were other Ivy League schools that offer(ed) the VMD and it is exactly as stated above by FrankB, a latin spelling 'Veterinariae Medicinae Doctoris' and the equivalent of a DVM. The one reason i'd heard cited while in school there was that Penn(U of Penn [1])(also, Penn State does not award DVM's - they do not have a veterinary school)and the other veterinary schools is that Penn is the one school that derived from a school of medicine whereas the other were developed from the school's of agriculture at those universities.
Of course the animals(and farmers) don't care about your degree as long as you help them! Acornembryo 13:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone have any reference support for the following statement: "The title and degree name "Doctor" in the US is considered around the world as an honorary one, as the DVM degree does not result in a thesis, publication, or other academic doctorate qualification as in a PhD." This seems an odd statement to make, as MD degrees (human medicine) don't require thesis or publication, either. Kerani ( talk) 12:59, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Guys, VMD does not mean "Veterinary Medical Doctor," just as an MD does not mean "Medical Doctor." MD is the Latin abbreviation for "Medicinae Doctor," which means and is translated in English as "Doctor of Medicine." The V in VMD is just an adjective specifying that it's veterinary medicine. Thus, VMD, or "Veterinariae Medicinae Doctor" means and is translated into English as "Doctor of Veterinary Medicine." VMD & DVM mean the same thing, one is just the Latin abbreviation of the other! 173.76.34.74 ( talk) 16:01, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
I have removed the above section which contained the following: "Veterinary Informatics is the application of information technology to healthcare. Most vet clinics now utilize software for Practice Management Systems to control scheduling and billing of clients, tracking of inventory and automation of lab results. Addiitonally, many clinics are working towards becoming computerized for electronic patient records." Veterinary Informatics is much more about practice management than it is about being a veterinarian, plus it has its own article. A link to veterinary informatics is also contained within the article. AED 06:13, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
This page deals almost exclusively with veterinary practice as done in america. Please expand to deal with other countries.
I am a vet student; I'd like to request that we take out all the superfluous comparisons to medical students. None of this is neutral, relevant information on the topic. In my experience, a lot of veterinary students are very emotional about defending the worth and difficulty of their career. I certainly share their view, but I don't believe an encyclopedic entry on the profession is a good place to make persuasive arguments regarding the value or difficulty of the profession. Dr.queso ( talk) 03:23, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
The article currently states: "Admission into veterinary medical school is competitive. According to the US Department of Labor, 1 in 3 applicants was accepted into a veterinary program in 2002. (Compare this with human medical school statistics of 1 in 2 applicants accepted, keep in mind however that human medical school acceptances have an average GPA of 3.7 and the acceptance rate per medical school is lower than that of vet schools)." The portion in bold was recently added without reference or citation.
I found no data to support the recently added assertions that "human medical school acceptances have an average GPA of 3.7" or that "the acceptance rate per medical school is lower than that of vet schools". It does appear that those applying to and entering medical school do have a slightly higher GPA, but that admissions into veterinary school are more competitive (as the article stated in its previous incarnation). AED 06:39, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Add those up, and the entry bar is far higher — better to liken it to graduate work at MIT or entry into Harvard or Yale Law Schools. That tough. Fra nkB 05:03, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
= Proposal to merge...
I'm really too tired this morning to deal with the overall work needed in this article at the moment (4 am) and so I yelled for attention. Awk grammer constructions. Sentences split by sentences that are off point. A poor article introduction... just read it. It needs a good dose of bandaids and a lot of TLC.
The content is ok, but could be expanded without a lot of effort. Fra nkB 08:17, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Can we please get rid of the laundry list of veterinary specialities? If we're gonna have a list, I think it should at least be in list or table form, instead of an awkward "heading/sentence" format. If we can't come up with a paragraph of information for something, I don't think it merits its own headline.
-- Dr.queso ( talk) 22:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Sounds like alot of talk but no one is doing ..... about it. What's the matter with you guys. All talk and no action.-- 69.14.219.108 ( talk) 11:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
"An open castration being performed on a horse by a veterinarian under ketamine anaesthesia."
Is an image caption, and I would like to suggest that it be changed to something more along the lines of:
"A veterinarian performing an open castration on a horse under ketamine anaesthesia."
The original sentence suggests the veterinarian is under ketamine anaesthesia, and I assume that was not the intended meaning. —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
24.18.180.230 (
talk)
22:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC).women get 75% of the money
I've overhauled Template:Veterinary medicine (formerly {{ Veterinary Practitioners}}) to include all the related "See also" links, from various veterinary articles. Please feel free to correct/improve anything in it (ordering, subheaders, additions, etc), and add it to appropriate articles. Thanks. -- Quiddity 18:59, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Did Alf Wight (James Herriot) receive a doctorate as implied in the article? It's not mentioned in any other source that I know of. Zagubov 00:31, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Vets charge a lot because there is no health funding for animals. They also have to financially justify having so many assistant staff as employees. So a $200 charge for a seemingly minor medical procedure is commonplace. Jivesucka 17:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Can you provide a citation for "vets charge a lot?" For example, can you provide an example of a routine/minor medical procedure for which veterinarians charge more than a similar procedure in humans? Maybe you could factor out malpractice costs, since those are much lower for veterinarians, but in my experience veterinary procedures are comparable to human medical procedures. (The value of an animal may be lower than the value of a human, but that doesn't change the cost of medical equipment and treatment.) I'd also be interested in a citation for "they have so many assistant staff"-- do veterinarians tend to have more staff than is necessary or normal for their field of work? -- Dr.queso ( talk) 16:44, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
"Owning your own practice can bring in a much larger income typically anywhere from $200,000 - $300,000 and up."
Is there a citation to support these figures? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.193.215.198 ( talk) 21:49, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Vets have to take an oath to aid animals. You pay for the services that they do to help your animal. Sure they can over charge sometimes, but not generally. If you are being charged too much call around for a more reasonably priced vet. Vets, unlike human doctors, do not have health insurances and the government insurances that cover the costs of those who cannot afford care. (This is a great point that must be said in the article). When one go to the doctor, he or she only pay the co-pay for the visit, and a co-pay for your medication (usually about $20-30) and insurance pays the rest of the $$$ bill for you. The Veterinarians does not have this opulence. The money we get goes to rent or mortgage for the buliding, techs, and receptionists, paying someone to clean kennels, local taxes, medication and etc. In my opinion, to add in the article that the vets cost more than human medical care, it is not appropriate.-- Chris Cohen ( talk) 17:29, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Vets don't have to take an oath. And neither do doctors. Some medical school request that their student take a modified oath. Most don't. When I was a vet, we charged between $40 to $200 for a spay. But you do get what you pay for, to a certain point. In the same way, in human medicine, you can get a skin cancer removed for $100 with curettage, or $5000 if you wanted general anesthesia, frozen section histology, and a plastic surgeon for the closure. Again, you get what you pay for. A human hysterectomy is 40 times more risky than a spay operation in the dog. So the price is about 200 x greater. I just wanted to clear up the misconception that either a vet or a human doctor has to take or obey any oaths.
SALARIES: This section desperately needs some citation. Salaries for veterinarians, just like any other profession, vary by country/region and experience. To broadly say that "the average veterinarian" makes $X is inaccurate at best, and misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.7.115.225 ( talk) 21:15, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
I need help. I'm writing a science career paper for class and I chose a vet. I can not find ANY info on what degrees you need to become a vet. Can someone please help me find info?? Lulugirl12 ( talk) 17:24, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Go to this link: http://www.aavmc.org/ Look at the map at the bottom. Click on the state of concern. Then read the requirement. No degree requirement. You can be in ANY college majors. The main requirement is noted in the body of this article. Some school requires additional prevet classes, but most don't. Examples of additional classes: embryology, poultry science, live stock judging, dairy science, etc. Many schools now have dropped these requirements to increase the size of potential candidates. -- Northerncedar ( talk) 00:53, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
"... is a physician for animals"
Technically, wouldn't that include humans as well? Perhaps a more precise definition should be used for a higher accuracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.230.223 ( talk) 21:02, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it would also apply to humans. If you need a spay or neuter cheap, I am sure your local vet can do it. Now bend over and say Ahhh.... Mr. Nitpickyness....-- 69.14.219.108 ( talk) 11:43, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
veterinarians must have a lot of courage do they get paid a good amount —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.58.222.10 ( talk) 20:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
"Veterinarians are encouraged to take an oath"- It is my understanding that it is a requirement of obtaining membership to the RCVS and thus being able to practice as veterinarians that vets must accept the oath. Perhaps this is wrong? Silkiesttie ( talk) 22:05, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
A cursory search reveals lots of copyrighted sites have either borrowed content from this page or vice versa. Will start removing later today. Falcon8765 (TALK) 15:26, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Veterinarians and?or Veterinary Surgeons often call themselves "Doctor" when they have only a Bachelor or Master Degree. Is it correct to call yourself "Doctor" when you do not possess a Doctor's Degree? Johncoborn ( talk) 21:37, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
It seems odd that this article was moved from "Veterinarian." I see no discussion on the topic, and here we seem to be increasing confusion. Just wondering. Montanabw (talk) 23:56, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Jesanj - this is a clear case because the AmE term is never used in BrE, so as per policy as wp:commonality we should seek an alternative. I don't want to move back to veterianarian, but would be happy to move it to a third neutral term. I think vet is perfectly acceptable, its in the dictionary and in common corpus (dozens of books with it in the title, for instance). OwainDavies ( about)( talk) edited at 09:07, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
( ←) Actually, while I appreciate the attempt to find a common term, this is not a reasonable one. I've reverted your bold action, and moved it back to its perfectly reasonable original title. "Veterinarian" has been the precedented title for more than eight years (i.e. always), and I hope you can be open to the reversion for now.
"Vet" is an informal term [8] [9] [10], and using slang instead of formal wording for article titles arguably goes against what WP:COMMONNAME clearly states ("article titles should be neither vulgar nor pedantic"). More importantly, though, it goes against common sense. At the end of the day, we're an encyclopedia (ideally a high-quality one), and encyclopedias are use formal wording, not slang. No, they do not favor commonly-used slang over regional English. I would be perfectly open to a common term if you can think of one, but I can't, and I don't think the argument for changing the title to a slang term is strong enough. Regards, Swarm 02:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
No problems, i don't set out to create the problems! OwainDavies ( about)( talk) edited at 08:00, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
The veterinary medicine article is in very rough shape. The best of it could be brought here and the subsequent article could be properly called veterinary medicine. Any thoughts DVMt ( talk) 16:20, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
This article has a number of major problems:
The solution? Go back to the way things were in September. Rename this article back to Veterinarian, remove the few nods to internationalism and revive the Veterinary Surgeon article in its original form. Wally Wiglet ( talk) 20:02, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
I still don't see what value a veterinary surgeon article has on its own over this article (albeit with improvements) and the veterinary workers in the United Kingdom article. As for naming, it is almost deliberately 'false' in the same way as fixed-wing aircraft doesn't really have people who go "oh great, that's much better than calling it an airplane/aeroplane/mechanical bird", and may lead to the odd WTF moment when people first go to it, but it helps meet the standards of WP:COMMONALITY. OwainDavies ( about)( talk) edited at 05:40, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I have renamed the article to 'Veterinarian' which is a generic descriptor used globally. Also, the article is not being edited according to the proper manual of style. Please read WP:PSMED to familiarize yourselves with the process. As such, we are missing, incredibly, the very first section which is scope of practice. I think we should start here first. DVMt ( talk) 01:00, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
An RfC is overkill, how about just putting in a simple move request? Still will bring in third parties to break the deadlock, but with less time-consuming "drahmahz" Montanabw (talk) 19:26, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
As far as a world focus goes, we are talking about WP:USEENGLISH, so we are looking at what English-speaking nations say. So, to that end, if someone wants to look at the national government regulations (not press stuff) for Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, and, arguably, India, we probably would have the bulk of the examples. That said, all of these nations generally stick to either the US or UK forms. But personally, I don't see this as a "let's take a vote" issue, I see it as a perfect example of WP:COMMONALITY, just like "fixed wing aircraft" (a term virtually no one uses in practice, but that encompasses both airplanes and aeroplanes!). I want us to be respectful of people the world 'round and be careful to not be too US-Centric. So sources, please. Montanabw (talk) 20:28, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
You both are missing the point, which is not the number of votes, but respect for other forms of English per WP:COMMONALITY. Neither of you have addressed my "airplane/aeroplane = fixed wing aircraft" argument. I'm sure there are more uses of "airplane" than "aeroplane" too. That's not the point, the point is if we misuse the term in a way that UK readers will think we are NOT referring to the people they call "veterinary surgeons" when, in fact, we are. At this point, we seem to have a 2-2 stalemate and no consensus at present. Can those of you promoting "veterinarian" PLEASE address the argument I have now made multiple times? Montanabw (talk) 02:35, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure why COMMONALITY (part of a guideline) should triumph WP:COMMONNAME (part of a policy). Fixed-wing aircruft is just WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTing. -- Dodo bird ( talk) 20:15, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
The entire history section had been blanked [17] since January 18 due to the addition of extensive copy paste from http://scienceray.com/biology/a-brief-history-of-veterinary-medicine/. The temporary re-write page at Talk:Veterinary physician/Temp is basically unusable, as it copied the entire article, not simply the offending section, and thus creates attribution problems. The re-written text is also still quite close paraphrasing from the above source and from http://www.veterinaryhistorysociety.org.uk/press.htm (neither of which are ideal sources in the first place). It was also way too skewed to the British veterinary profession. I have consequently re-written the section in situ with text adapted and shortened from the equivalent section in Veterinary medicine, which I also had to re-write using better references because that section had likewise been a copyvio. Other editors should now take it from here, or you might possibly decide that the section here is superfluous. Note that it was OK for me to remove the copyvio blanking template and re-write, as I'm a Copyright problems clerk. Voceditenore ( talk) 10:39, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
__________ I am deleting "This compares with acceptance rates of well under 25% for most PhD and MD degrees" because there is no source cited. I checked the source regarding overall veterinary school admission, and it does not mention that statistic. This might be relevant with 2007 data, but at the moment does not make sense in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarityneededwiki ( talk • contribs) 13:06, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
I am also deleting "The likelihood of acceptance is not in favor of the applicant, though is higher than acceptance rates in most academic PhD programs and medical schools" for similar reasons. There is no source, this is not a comparison page, and overall acceptance rate of an applicant to any school is different than acceptance rates at individual programs. If comparison is warranted, which it does not appear to be so, there should be data from the same year and overall acceptance rate to any PhD or MD program.
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This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Every time I come to this page, I remove (or want to but am too lazy) a bunch of irrelevant information that appears to be written by someone who feels that veterinarians/vet students don't get the respect they deserve. This page should not be a comparison to medical school, and there are few instances where it is actually useful to make that comparison. Just a few examples that I have come across today: "Unlike in adult human medicine, vets must rely on clinical signs, as animals are unable to vocalise symptoms as a human would." What encylopedic information does this sentence contain? Are there many people who think that animals can talk? Is it likely that someone reading this article needs to be informed that animals talk and humans don't? The section on "veterinary curriculum comparison to human medicine" contained paragraphs of redundant information, stating that subject A is more complex in veterinary medicine, subject B is more complex in veterinary medicine, subject C is more complex in veterinary medicine... etc. I can see how it might be useful for someone to create a web page, or edit their school's career counseling page, with this information, but this is an encyclopedia. Why not just lay out what the veterinary curriculum is like? If someone wants to compare it to medicine, let them read this, and then read the medicine article.
I myself am a vet student, and I understand where you're coming from... but please, keep in mind that this is an encyclopedic article on the veterinary profession, not a web forum where you can vent your frustration or build your ego. Dr.queso ( talk) 17:31, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
SUP PEOPLES!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know only one state in the United States offers the VMD (Veterinary Medical Doctor title instead of the standard DVM (Doctor of Veterinary Medicine)I know only one state in the United States offers the VMD (Veterinary Medical Doctor) title instead of the standard DVM (Doctor of Veterinary Mediciiǚne) for doctors. What state is that? And should you become a doctor, can you use either title or do you have to use the title they give you? -- Admiral Roo 12:50, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
As per your question "Can you use either title?". There is no real advantage to using one title over another. DVM and VMD are the same degree. The only difference is that UPenn chose to call their graduates VMD's. The UPenn degree and diploma is written in latin, and this seems to be the logistical reason why those letters get switched around. Ultimately, there is no advantage to having a DVM instead of a VMD or vice versa.
Since I'm categorizing these tonight, I'll add a belated confirmation of the above. Dad (may he RIP) was always Dr. Frank A. Bartus, VMD—an alumni of University of Pennsylvania, stated correctly above. My sister's degree from Penn State University is DVM. I do believe there were several other schools, also Ivy league, IIRC, that awarded the VMD, but recently (well, to me—sometime in the last 30-35 years!) switched over to the DVM like lemmings over a cliff. Fra nkB 05:11, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't believe there were other Ivy League schools that offer(ed) the VMD and it is exactly as stated above by FrankB, a latin spelling 'Veterinariae Medicinae Doctoris' and the equivalent of a DVM. The one reason i'd heard cited while in school there was that Penn(U of Penn [1])(also, Penn State does not award DVM's - they do not have a veterinary school)and the other veterinary schools is that Penn is the one school that derived from a school of medicine whereas the other were developed from the school's of agriculture at those universities.
Of course the animals(and farmers) don't care about your degree as long as you help them! Acornembryo 13:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone have any reference support for the following statement: "The title and degree name "Doctor" in the US is considered around the world as an honorary one, as the DVM degree does not result in a thesis, publication, or other academic doctorate qualification as in a PhD." This seems an odd statement to make, as MD degrees (human medicine) don't require thesis or publication, either. Kerani ( talk) 12:59, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Guys, VMD does not mean "Veterinary Medical Doctor," just as an MD does not mean "Medical Doctor." MD is the Latin abbreviation for "Medicinae Doctor," which means and is translated in English as "Doctor of Medicine." The V in VMD is just an adjective specifying that it's veterinary medicine. Thus, VMD, or "Veterinariae Medicinae Doctor" means and is translated into English as "Doctor of Veterinary Medicine." VMD & DVM mean the same thing, one is just the Latin abbreviation of the other! 173.76.34.74 ( talk) 16:01, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
I have removed the above section which contained the following: "Veterinary Informatics is the application of information technology to healthcare. Most vet clinics now utilize software for Practice Management Systems to control scheduling and billing of clients, tracking of inventory and automation of lab results. Addiitonally, many clinics are working towards becoming computerized for electronic patient records." Veterinary Informatics is much more about practice management than it is about being a veterinarian, plus it has its own article. A link to veterinary informatics is also contained within the article. AED 06:13, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
This page deals almost exclusively with veterinary practice as done in america. Please expand to deal with other countries.
I am a vet student; I'd like to request that we take out all the superfluous comparisons to medical students. None of this is neutral, relevant information on the topic. In my experience, a lot of veterinary students are very emotional about defending the worth and difficulty of their career. I certainly share their view, but I don't believe an encyclopedic entry on the profession is a good place to make persuasive arguments regarding the value or difficulty of the profession. Dr.queso ( talk) 03:23, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
The article currently states: "Admission into veterinary medical school is competitive. According to the US Department of Labor, 1 in 3 applicants was accepted into a veterinary program in 2002. (Compare this with human medical school statistics of 1 in 2 applicants accepted, keep in mind however that human medical school acceptances have an average GPA of 3.7 and the acceptance rate per medical school is lower than that of vet schools)." The portion in bold was recently added without reference or citation.
I found no data to support the recently added assertions that "human medical school acceptances have an average GPA of 3.7" or that "the acceptance rate per medical school is lower than that of vet schools". It does appear that those applying to and entering medical school do have a slightly higher GPA, but that admissions into veterinary school are more competitive (as the article stated in its previous incarnation). AED 06:39, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Add those up, and the entry bar is far higher — better to liken it to graduate work at MIT or entry into Harvard or Yale Law Schools. That tough. Fra nkB 05:03, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
= Proposal to merge...
I'm really too tired this morning to deal with the overall work needed in this article at the moment (4 am) and so I yelled for attention. Awk grammer constructions. Sentences split by sentences that are off point. A poor article introduction... just read it. It needs a good dose of bandaids and a lot of TLC.
The content is ok, but could be expanded without a lot of effort. Fra nkB 08:17, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Can we please get rid of the laundry list of veterinary specialities? If we're gonna have a list, I think it should at least be in list or table form, instead of an awkward "heading/sentence" format. If we can't come up with a paragraph of information for something, I don't think it merits its own headline.
-- Dr.queso ( talk) 22:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Sounds like alot of talk but no one is doing ..... about it. What's the matter with you guys. All talk and no action.-- 69.14.219.108 ( talk) 11:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
"An open castration being performed on a horse by a veterinarian under ketamine anaesthesia."
Is an image caption, and I would like to suggest that it be changed to something more along the lines of:
"A veterinarian performing an open castration on a horse under ketamine anaesthesia."
The original sentence suggests the veterinarian is under ketamine anaesthesia, and I assume that was not the intended meaning. —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
24.18.180.230 (
talk)
22:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC).women get 75% of the money
I've overhauled Template:Veterinary medicine (formerly {{ Veterinary Practitioners}}) to include all the related "See also" links, from various veterinary articles. Please feel free to correct/improve anything in it (ordering, subheaders, additions, etc), and add it to appropriate articles. Thanks. -- Quiddity 18:59, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Did Alf Wight (James Herriot) receive a doctorate as implied in the article? It's not mentioned in any other source that I know of. Zagubov 00:31, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Vets charge a lot because there is no health funding for animals. They also have to financially justify having so many assistant staff as employees. So a $200 charge for a seemingly minor medical procedure is commonplace. Jivesucka 17:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Can you provide a citation for "vets charge a lot?" For example, can you provide an example of a routine/minor medical procedure for which veterinarians charge more than a similar procedure in humans? Maybe you could factor out malpractice costs, since those are much lower for veterinarians, but in my experience veterinary procedures are comparable to human medical procedures. (The value of an animal may be lower than the value of a human, but that doesn't change the cost of medical equipment and treatment.) I'd also be interested in a citation for "they have so many assistant staff"-- do veterinarians tend to have more staff than is necessary or normal for their field of work? -- Dr.queso ( talk) 16:44, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
"Owning your own practice can bring in a much larger income typically anywhere from $200,000 - $300,000 and up."
Is there a citation to support these figures? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.193.215.198 ( talk) 21:49, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Vets have to take an oath to aid animals. You pay for the services that they do to help your animal. Sure they can over charge sometimes, but not generally. If you are being charged too much call around for a more reasonably priced vet. Vets, unlike human doctors, do not have health insurances and the government insurances that cover the costs of those who cannot afford care. (This is a great point that must be said in the article). When one go to the doctor, he or she only pay the co-pay for the visit, and a co-pay for your medication (usually about $20-30) and insurance pays the rest of the $$$ bill for you. The Veterinarians does not have this opulence. The money we get goes to rent or mortgage for the buliding, techs, and receptionists, paying someone to clean kennels, local taxes, medication and etc. In my opinion, to add in the article that the vets cost more than human medical care, it is not appropriate.-- Chris Cohen ( talk) 17:29, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Vets don't have to take an oath. And neither do doctors. Some medical school request that their student take a modified oath. Most don't. When I was a vet, we charged between $40 to $200 for a spay. But you do get what you pay for, to a certain point. In the same way, in human medicine, you can get a skin cancer removed for $100 with curettage, or $5000 if you wanted general anesthesia, frozen section histology, and a plastic surgeon for the closure. Again, you get what you pay for. A human hysterectomy is 40 times more risky than a spay operation in the dog. So the price is about 200 x greater. I just wanted to clear up the misconception that either a vet or a human doctor has to take or obey any oaths.
SALARIES: This section desperately needs some citation. Salaries for veterinarians, just like any other profession, vary by country/region and experience. To broadly say that "the average veterinarian" makes $X is inaccurate at best, and misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.7.115.225 ( talk) 21:15, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
I need help. I'm writing a science career paper for class and I chose a vet. I can not find ANY info on what degrees you need to become a vet. Can someone please help me find info?? Lulugirl12 ( talk) 17:24, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Go to this link: http://www.aavmc.org/ Look at the map at the bottom. Click on the state of concern. Then read the requirement. No degree requirement. You can be in ANY college majors. The main requirement is noted in the body of this article. Some school requires additional prevet classes, but most don't. Examples of additional classes: embryology, poultry science, live stock judging, dairy science, etc. Many schools now have dropped these requirements to increase the size of potential candidates. -- Northerncedar ( talk) 00:53, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
"... is a physician for animals"
Technically, wouldn't that include humans as well? Perhaps a more precise definition should be used for a higher accuracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.230.223 ( talk) 21:02, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it would also apply to humans. If you need a spay or neuter cheap, I am sure your local vet can do it. Now bend over and say Ahhh.... Mr. Nitpickyness....-- 69.14.219.108 ( talk) 11:43, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
veterinarians must have a lot of courage do they get paid a good amount —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.58.222.10 ( talk) 20:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
"Veterinarians are encouraged to take an oath"- It is my understanding that it is a requirement of obtaining membership to the RCVS and thus being able to practice as veterinarians that vets must accept the oath. Perhaps this is wrong? Silkiesttie ( talk) 22:05, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
A cursory search reveals lots of copyrighted sites have either borrowed content from this page or vice versa. Will start removing later today. Falcon8765 (TALK) 15:26, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Veterinarians and?or Veterinary Surgeons often call themselves "Doctor" when they have only a Bachelor or Master Degree. Is it correct to call yourself "Doctor" when you do not possess a Doctor's Degree? Johncoborn ( talk) 21:37, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
It seems odd that this article was moved from "Veterinarian." I see no discussion on the topic, and here we seem to be increasing confusion. Just wondering. Montanabw (talk) 23:56, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Jesanj - this is a clear case because the AmE term is never used in BrE, so as per policy as wp:commonality we should seek an alternative. I don't want to move back to veterianarian, but would be happy to move it to a third neutral term. I think vet is perfectly acceptable, its in the dictionary and in common corpus (dozens of books with it in the title, for instance). OwainDavies ( about)( talk) edited at 09:07, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
( ←) Actually, while I appreciate the attempt to find a common term, this is not a reasonable one. I've reverted your bold action, and moved it back to its perfectly reasonable original title. "Veterinarian" has been the precedented title for more than eight years (i.e. always), and I hope you can be open to the reversion for now.
"Vet" is an informal term [8] [9] [10], and using slang instead of formal wording for article titles arguably goes against what WP:COMMONNAME clearly states ("article titles should be neither vulgar nor pedantic"). More importantly, though, it goes against common sense. At the end of the day, we're an encyclopedia (ideally a high-quality one), and encyclopedias are use formal wording, not slang. No, they do not favor commonly-used slang over regional English. I would be perfectly open to a common term if you can think of one, but I can't, and I don't think the argument for changing the title to a slang term is strong enough. Regards, Swarm 02:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
No problems, i don't set out to create the problems! OwainDavies ( about)( talk) edited at 08:00, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
The veterinary medicine article is in very rough shape. The best of it could be brought here and the subsequent article could be properly called veterinary medicine. Any thoughts DVMt ( talk) 16:20, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
This article has a number of major problems:
The solution? Go back to the way things were in September. Rename this article back to Veterinarian, remove the few nods to internationalism and revive the Veterinary Surgeon article in its original form. Wally Wiglet ( talk) 20:02, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
I still don't see what value a veterinary surgeon article has on its own over this article (albeit with improvements) and the veterinary workers in the United Kingdom article. As for naming, it is almost deliberately 'false' in the same way as fixed-wing aircraft doesn't really have people who go "oh great, that's much better than calling it an airplane/aeroplane/mechanical bird", and may lead to the odd WTF moment when people first go to it, but it helps meet the standards of WP:COMMONALITY. OwainDavies ( about)( talk) edited at 05:40, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I have renamed the article to 'Veterinarian' which is a generic descriptor used globally. Also, the article is not being edited according to the proper manual of style. Please read WP:PSMED to familiarize yourselves with the process. As such, we are missing, incredibly, the very first section which is scope of practice. I think we should start here first. DVMt ( talk) 01:00, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
An RfC is overkill, how about just putting in a simple move request? Still will bring in third parties to break the deadlock, but with less time-consuming "drahmahz" Montanabw (talk) 19:26, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
As far as a world focus goes, we are talking about WP:USEENGLISH, so we are looking at what English-speaking nations say. So, to that end, if someone wants to look at the national government regulations (not press stuff) for Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, and, arguably, India, we probably would have the bulk of the examples. That said, all of these nations generally stick to either the US or UK forms. But personally, I don't see this as a "let's take a vote" issue, I see it as a perfect example of WP:COMMONALITY, just like "fixed wing aircraft" (a term virtually no one uses in practice, but that encompasses both airplanes and aeroplanes!). I want us to be respectful of people the world 'round and be careful to not be too US-Centric. So sources, please. Montanabw (talk) 20:28, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
You both are missing the point, which is not the number of votes, but respect for other forms of English per WP:COMMONALITY. Neither of you have addressed my "airplane/aeroplane = fixed wing aircraft" argument. I'm sure there are more uses of "airplane" than "aeroplane" too. That's not the point, the point is if we misuse the term in a way that UK readers will think we are NOT referring to the people they call "veterinary surgeons" when, in fact, we are. At this point, we seem to have a 2-2 stalemate and no consensus at present. Can those of you promoting "veterinarian" PLEASE address the argument I have now made multiple times? Montanabw (talk) 02:35, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure why COMMONALITY (part of a guideline) should triumph WP:COMMONNAME (part of a policy). Fixed-wing aircruft is just WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTing. -- Dodo bird ( talk) 20:15, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
The entire history section had been blanked [17] since January 18 due to the addition of extensive copy paste from http://scienceray.com/biology/a-brief-history-of-veterinary-medicine/. The temporary re-write page at Talk:Veterinary physician/Temp is basically unusable, as it copied the entire article, not simply the offending section, and thus creates attribution problems. The re-written text is also still quite close paraphrasing from the above source and from http://www.veterinaryhistorysociety.org.uk/press.htm (neither of which are ideal sources in the first place). It was also way too skewed to the British veterinary profession. I have consequently re-written the section in situ with text adapted and shortened from the equivalent section in Veterinary medicine, which I also had to re-write using better references because that section had likewise been a copyvio. Other editors should now take it from here, or you might possibly decide that the section here is superfluous. Note that it was OK for me to remove the copyvio blanking template and re-write, as I'm a Copyright problems clerk. Voceditenore ( talk) 10:39, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
__________ I am deleting "This compares with acceptance rates of well under 25% for most PhD and MD degrees" because there is no source cited. I checked the source regarding overall veterinary school admission, and it does not mention that statistic. This might be relevant with 2007 data, but at the moment does not make sense in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarityneededwiki ( talk • contribs) 13:06, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
I am also deleting "The likelihood of acceptance is not in favor of the applicant, though is higher than acceptance rates in most academic PhD programs and medical schools" for similar reasons. There is no source, this is not a comparison page, and overall acceptance rate of an applicant to any school is different than acceptance rates at individual programs. If comparison is warranted, which it does not appear to be so, there should be data from the same year and overall acceptance rate to any PhD or MD program.
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