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I've replaced the game which Giftlite put in this article with a different one. The one before, from Leon 1998, was a blitz game in an Advanced Chess competition (ie, the players were getting help from computers), which probably isn't ideal. If we want to single out one of Topalov's wins over Kaspy, then I think the one I've put in the article now (from the 1994 Olympiad) is better, since it was at normal time controls, and no computers were involved (I also think the standard of play was quite a bit higher). I don't claim it's the best possible example we could have (Topalov has probably played better games against players other than Kasparov), but I do definitely think it's better than what we had before.
Here is the original passage that I've now replaced:
To be honest, I'm not sure about including an example game in articles, since it's very hard to sum up a player's style in just one game, and even if we give two or three I can imagine it might be very hard for every editor to agree on which should be included. I think that on the whole I would prefer no games in the article and a link to a site like chessgames.com where readers can browse a large number of a player's games and reach their own conclusions. But that's just me, and if others think example games are useful, fair enough. -- Camembert 23:44, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
I am probably missing something, but in the line 15...Nd7 16.Bxh6 f5 17.Bf4 Qa5, doesn't Black just remain a pawn down after, say, 18.Qd2? If so, it seems to me that while this line might avoid immediate loss, it can't possibly give Black equality. -- Camembert 15:13, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I ran deep position analysis last night, and here's what I got, in PGN format. It should be compatible with any Chessbase PGN viewer.
[Event "M-Tel Masters"] [Site "0:44:3O-O:27:42"] [Date "2005.05.21"] [Round "9"] [White "Topalov"] [Black "Ponomariov"] [ECO "E15"] [PlyCount "36"] 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Ba6 5. b3 Bb4+ 6. Bd2 Be7 7. Nc3 O-O 8. Rc1 c6 9. e4 d5 10. e5 Ne4 11. Bd3 Nxc3 12. Rxc3 c5 13. dxc5 bxc5 14. h4 h6 15. Bb1 Nd7 (15... f5 16. exf6 Bxf6 (16... Rxf6 17. Qc2 Nc6 18. Qh7+ Kf7 $18 {1.77/15}) 17. Qc2 dxc4 (17... d4 18. Ng5 hxg5 19. hxg5 dxc3 20. Bf4 Kf7 21. Qg6+ Ke7 22. gxf6+ Rxf6 23. Qxg7+ Rf7 24. Bg5+ Kd6 25. Qxf7 Qxg5 26. Rh7 Qe5+ 27. Kf1 Kc6 28. Qe8+ Kb6 29. Qd8+ Kc6 30. Be4+) 18. bxc4 Nc6 $18 {1.75/14}) (15... d4 16. Rc1 (16. Qc2 g6 17. Rd3 h5 18. Bh6 Re8 $14 {0.26/19}) 16... Bb7 (16... Nd7 17. Bxh6 f5 18. exf6 Nxf6 $16 {0.96/19}) 17. Bxh6 f5 18. Bf4 Re8 $14 {0.55/18}) 16. Re3 (16. Bxh6 f5 (16... Re8 17. Qd3 Nf8 18. Bd2 f5 $14 {0.66/18}) 17. Bf4 Qa5 18. Bd2 (18. Qd2) 18... d4 $11 {0.06/19}) (16. Qc2 f5 17. exf6 Nxf6 18. Re3 Bb7 $11 {-0.10/17}) 16... d4 (16... Bb7 17. Qc2 f5 18. exf6 Nxf6 $11 {0.13/18}) 17. Qc2 f5 18. exf6 Nxf6 $11 {0.07/18}
Points I thought were interesting:
Interesting stuff. ⟳ausa کui × 19:34, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
After two hours of looking at the position after 18. Qd2, Shredder settled on dead equality after an apparent repitition of position: 18...dxc4 19.bxc4 Rad8 20.0-0 Nxe5 21.Qe3 Nxf3+ 22.Qxf3 Rd4 23.Ra3 Qb6 24.Rb3 Qa5 25.Ra3 Qb6 26.Rb3 Qa5 27.Ra3 = (0.00) Depth: 23 ⟳ausa کui × 21:16, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Topalov analyzed this game in New in Chess 2005/5. He called 15 ... f5 a "big mistake" and wrote:
David Sneek 18:56, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
This nasty little rumor originated from the recent San Luis 2005 tournament. What makes it really nasty is that no one came forward to admit they started the rumor. I agree with Nigel Short that such rumors shouldn't even be worth mentioning, and thus I believe it does not belong in this article. Dionyseus 03:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion this allegation doesn't even belong to the discussion. He was accused and proved innocent, and when you are innocent, you shouldn't be put to blame, not even in a discussion-page. Shame on Wikipedia who brings on such nasty rumors, like every sour looser in any sport could blame the winner for cheating and harm his reputation. Worse so it is anonymous. -- Esalen 22:37, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
What the world would be like if Nigel Short ruled the world- scary. I don't really care what Short says- the allegations of cheating are a fact (that is to say, it is a fact that allegations have been made). Whether you consider the way in which they were raised ethical is immaterial. It was news, and plenty of news organizations felt it was sufficiently legitimate to report it. Sure it's unfair for the accuser not to come forward. However that does not mean the allegation was not made. And it is very relevant. Furthermore, on this issue of grammar:
"However, his title is disputed, some regard Vladimir Kramnik as the World Chess Champion because of his victory over Kasparov in 2000."
This is incorrect. "However, his title is disputed." This is a complete sentence. "Many regard Vladimir Kramnik as the World Chess Champion because of his victory over Kasparov in 2000." This is also a complete sentence. You cannot join the two with a comma. That is called a Comma splice. I will now correct the grammar one final time, and I will include the RELEVANT FACTUAL information about the cheating allegations. In the event that my germane and grammatically correct edits are incorrectly modified, I will seek out adjudication with an admin. Danny Pi 04:01, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm not going to comment on the comma splice issue, but with regard to the allegations of Topalov cheating - the edit as it was written did say that allegations had been raised. In otherwords the tidbit of information being conveyed here isn’t that Topalov was cheating, but that he has been accused of cheating. Clearly the accusation did follow the match (which is note-worthy and probably should not be glossed over) and the edition reflects that accurately. I think that the edit should be allowed to stand, with the addendum that the allegations have not been pursued by FIDE and remain just that – allegations. Also, before you get into an edit war you should read the 3 Revert Rule which says that you can have your account suspended if you revert an article 3 times in less than 24 hours. Disputes like this happen all the time, and Wikipedia does have a number of dispute resolution methods. Best to you all. LinuxDude 06:40, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
User:Supinejsupine Thank you! It is a friggin' comma splice, for crying out loud. That shouldn't have been a controversy, but unfortunately it seems there exists a marginal segment of the population intelligent enough to use computers, but not quite intelligent enough to use proper English. Do note, I did attempt mediation. Dionyseus never responded to the mediator's postings on User:Dionyseus's discussion page Danny Pi 05:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Come on, you all know that there was no cheating during the World Chess Championship. Actually, the only one person (that has rights to express opinion at this level) who didnot admit the Topalov's world leadership was Kramnik. After the Kasparov retirement, Topalov was the one to convey the real spirit of chess! Even, the immortal Kasparov admitted Vesko as his successor.
If I weren't aware of Modern Chess History, I would think Topalov does not really deserve the title which is not true. I think it (cheating part of the article) needs some redaction. Rasate 16:49, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Clearly there has also been support against the inclusion of the foolish cheating allegation. The two above me did not include their signatures, but nevertheless it suggests there's support against the inclusion. As for the mediator posting on my talk page back in January, I did post a response on the 3RR page, and they posted a response as well, you should read their response if you haven't. Dionyseus 00:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Did you indeed?
[1] I don't see you having responded at all. Furthermore, the cheating allegations ARE widespread. I fail to see how
User:Ryan_Delaney can declare it so without having participated at all in the discussion. I have tried reporting the incident for mediation. I have tried reasoning the issue out. Regardless of whether you are an admin or not, it does not make sense for you to arbitrarily declare the issue irrelevant by fiat. Look at Kramnik's page by contrast. Why don't you spend your time moderating THAT? The "people" that Dionyseus counts for his support seem to be one person trying to make paragraphs. Furthermore, being unsigned, I'm not convinced it wasn't Dionyseus himself. The people who have posted to this page supporting inclusion are:
LinuxDude, 70.23.236.205,
SWATJester
Ready
Aim, and since Kramnik's page is currently sporting all manner of unsubstantiated rumors, I will infer from
User:Supinejsupine's post that he too supports inclusion.
Danny Pi 13:58, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I said I responded to the 3RR page, remember when you tried to get me blocked back in January because I insisted you keep the "cheating allegation" out of the article, the moderators ended up threatening to block both of us if we didn't resolve it ourselves? I do not appreciate the nasty and personal email DanielPi sent me this morning, I would accept an apology from him though. I agree with administrator Ryan_Delaney, these "cheating allegations" are not widespread and no one even talks about it anymore. The "cheating allegation" is completely unfair to Topalov, and now that it has been over half a year since it happened and no one has talked about it ever since, there's truly no reason to keep it in the article. Dionyseus 19:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
1) Actually the admins suggested we take the issue to the mediation cabal, which I did, to which you did not respond. 2) There is a majority here in FAVOR of including mention of cheating. 3) FIDE said that they would investigate the issue. Since they have not published any conclusions, I think it's safe to say the issue is still an issue. I expect it would take longer than six months to conduct such an investigation anyhow- and who knows if they've even started. 4) The allegations come from a participant in the tournament, so I don't think you can call it a mere rumor. 5) The allegations received a great deal of coverage relative to most chess news, and indeed chessbase, quite likely the most popular chess news source, had an article or two on the issue. 6) As you yourself know, Dionyseus, a good many people consider the allegation serious and substantive. You may personally disagree, but there is nothing near consensus at forums like chessgames.com. 7) While the allegations are admittedly negative to Topalov, it is a FACT that the allegations were made. 8) *I* am not the one stirring up trouble. After you abandoned the argument, I stopped checking wiki for awhile. It turns out that a couple weeks after the issue had resolved, YOU decided to take it upon yourself, outside of mediation, to delete the sentence in question. 9) In terms of attitude, I feel I'm being entirely objective here. The allegations WERE widely reported. I posted links to many respected chess news outlets that reported on it. Mentioning a fact that relates to the subject in question is precisely what wiki should be about. By contrast, you recalcitrantly insisted that your obviously poor grammar "opinion" was correct, in spite of the fact that there has been nearly unanimous opinion that the offending sentence was in fact a comma splice. It is clear that you are the one with the opinionated and stubborn point of view. 10) I don't know your email address, and I have no idea to what you may be refering. 11) Those web polls are the only objective evidence there is. Empirically, almost all of the chess players I've personally spoken with about the issue agree that Kramnik is the champion. I think it is more accurate to say that "most" people consider Kramnik champion. This, again, is a fact. You may question the validity of web polls (although several separate polls seem to agree. However, there is scant evidence that "some" (implying a minority) people consider Kramnik champion, when in fact "most" do. Danny Pi 21:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Hello. A request was made on
WP:3O for a third opinion on this page. The opinion is regarding the issue: whether topalov's alleged cheating belongs in the article My 3rd opinion is that It deserves at least a passing notation. The article, as is appears fine. Pro-cheating advocates are welcome to submit external link to their citations too. Thank you for flying delta.
⇒
SWATJester
Ready
Aim
Fire! 16:50, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Whilst the article doesn't generally discuss the sundry tourneys in which Topalov has played (enumerating victories but including info on MTel only because as a sample game appears infra to the discussion), I wonder whether anyone thinks a few sentences apropos of Linares are in order. Though of course Topalov did not win, he surely made a remarkable comeback, and one might perhaps note that, after the tournament moved to Spain, he scored 5.5/7, beating, notably, Aronian, the winner. Joe 23:04, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Dionyseus- clearly there's support for inclusion on the discussion page. Also, you didn't respond to the moderator, who requested your POV on your discussion page. Don't change this back before clearing it with the moderators. I did. Danny Pi 12:09, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Apologies. Yes, it's 'mediator' not 'moderator'. The mediator was Cyde. The link is: [2]. The admin at the 3RR page suggested mediation, which I pursued. Dionyseus has continued to assert his clearly POV deletions without responding to mediators requests for discussion. Blindly rv-ing without any discussion does not, it seems to me, befit the spirit of wiki. I take umbrage that Dionyseus would imply that *I* am the one being disorderly. As I am the one calling in admins, and I am the one who ends the rv wars, I fail to see how *I'm* the one being a nuisance. If the issue is controversial, I think given Dionyseus's disorderly conduct we should at least leave it tentatively with the sentence included. Danny Pi 21:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I have requested mediation. Please post your POV at [ [3]]. Danny Pi 05:15, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi all. I have taken this mediation case. I will post a response on that page [4] shortly. One thing I need to suggest to all of you is to respect each other as editors. There are a lot of personal attacks and such in this that are really unnecessary. -- Joebeone ( Talk) 23:24, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
The fact is simple: Topalov was accused of cheating during San Luis. His subsequent performances will not change the FACT that he was accused of cheating. Actually, his amazing come-from-behind antics after miserable beginnings only give credibility to the thinking that this guy cheats when he's in trouble. Dionyseus, always slow to absorb new facts, is still trying to refute whether Topalov actually cheated. Now, it is at the moment impossible to prove this point one way or another. But, I cannot make this any more clear: I DON'T CARE IF HE CHEATED. HE WAS ACCUSED. That is the point. The ACCUSATION is news. Whether he actually cheated is IRRELEVANT, since it may never be known whether he did. The point is that he was ACCUSED by a noteworthy source. The mediation has taken place, and it was agreed by all parties that the solution was to mention the cheating. The agreement was not "mention it pending Topalov's result at MTel." ABIDE BY THE MEDIATION! And never ever "assume" that I consider this unworthy of mention. In fact, never assume anything on my behalf, thank you very much. I will let you know if I suddenly have a change of heart and decide that certain FACTS are omissable in an encyclopedia entry. You don't agree to a compromise in mediation and then decide that now is the time to return to an RV war. Try to understand the barest details of an argument if you're going to try to argue against it. And please try to conduct yourself like an adult. It's just exhausting trying to combat these petty infantile tactics. Danny Pi 08:03, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
Dionyseus 11:53, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
Very well. You may write your POV here: [ [9]] Danny Pi 00:02, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone else seen the column by Bobby Ang in BusinessWorld (Philippines) for October 7, 2005? It starts by analyzing a 1998 game by Clemens Allwermann in which Allwermann missed an obvious endgame because the computer he was secretly using missed it too. Ang then analyzes a Topolav-Leko game and recongizes a similar pattern of moves to the Allwermann game. He seems to be suggesting that one of the players could have been cheating, but I'm not a chess player and I can't follow the article. I found it on Lexis/Nexis but I probably can't post it due to copyright. However, it may be a source for the later Post article. Thatcher131 18:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I've created FIDE World Chess Championship 2006, so details on that match can go there, rather than being duplicated on the Kramnik and Topalov page. The page title was chosen because of similar names for 2004 and 2005 FIDE championships. Rocksong 01:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
It says tying for first with Garry Kasparov (though losing on countback) What is countback? RJFJR 15:15, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
An anon IP has removed this paragraph:
Topalov had received similar anonymous accusations in his career after his decisive victory at [[FIDE World Chess Championship 2005|San Luis]].<ref>[http://www.chessolympiad-torino2006.org/eng/index.php?cav=1&dettaglio=259 Topalov Accused of Cheating By an unnamed participant in the World Chess Championship in San Luis]</ref>
I should welcome views, please, as to whether it should go back. BlueValour 22:00, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
There are rumors that Topalov has a microchip in his brain, are these rumors true or not? -- Must WIN 00:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps in April 2006 we could pass off these accusations when there was only one real instance, but as of 2007, Topalov has been accused of cheating on multiple occasions. (Wijk aan Zee [15], AND San Luis) With multiple accusations at different highly ranked tournaments, it is downright ignorant not to at least mention these accusations, true or not. Sloverlord 13:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I didn't mean to start another fight here (although after reading earlier parts of this talk page I probably should've realized that was impossible), I am merely saying that, given the multiple accusations of cheating leveled against Topalov, they should be given a slightly more thorough mention, complete with names of tournaments and people involved. Whether the allegations are true or not cannot be proven. I really don't think there is any need for name calling... to be honest, I've never seen people get so worked up about a chess player. For god's sake, it's not like we're debating the existence of the Holocaust here. Sloverlord 16:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
There is a line in this article which goes: "...including former World Champions Anatoly Karpov, Boris Spassky, Viktor Korchnoi, and Viswanathan Anand, ...". This is misleading, because Korchnoi has never been a world champion, while the other three were (Anand being a former FIDE Knock-Out World Champion). 193.164.229.102 11:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Reassess importance as top for this former World Chess Champion. ChessCreator ( talk) 20:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Wasn't he in an Monk episode where he killed his wife and should it be mentioned in his "career" section even though it wasnt neccesarily anything to do with his Main occupation? -- FailureAtDeath ( talk) 04:19, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
Could someone please add some information pertaining to his performances for Bulgaria at Chess Olympiads? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.38.32.32 ( talk) 17:52, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
"Topalov lost his chance to compete in the 2007 world championship tournament when he the 2006 reunification match." ??? Kingturtle = ( talk) 15:54, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
The white queen is in the wrong place in the diagram. Topalov had not moved his queen by move 12, and the white queen starts out on d1 (not e1). Also, move 17 claims he moved Qc2...but it can't do that from e1.
The citation given (29, http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1482320) agrees with me.
Someone who knows how should update the diagram with the correct position. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.220.177.163 ( talk) 15:35, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
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I've replaced the game which Giftlite put in this article with a different one. The one before, from Leon 1998, was a blitz game in an Advanced Chess competition (ie, the players were getting help from computers), which probably isn't ideal. If we want to single out one of Topalov's wins over Kaspy, then I think the one I've put in the article now (from the 1994 Olympiad) is better, since it was at normal time controls, and no computers were involved (I also think the standard of play was quite a bit higher). I don't claim it's the best possible example we could have (Topalov has probably played better games against players other than Kasparov), but I do definitely think it's better than what we had before.
Here is the original passage that I've now replaced:
To be honest, I'm not sure about including an example game in articles, since it's very hard to sum up a player's style in just one game, and even if we give two or three I can imagine it might be very hard for every editor to agree on which should be included. I think that on the whole I would prefer no games in the article and a link to a site like chessgames.com where readers can browse a large number of a player's games and reach their own conclusions. But that's just me, and if others think example games are useful, fair enough. -- Camembert 23:44, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
I am probably missing something, but in the line 15...Nd7 16.Bxh6 f5 17.Bf4 Qa5, doesn't Black just remain a pawn down after, say, 18.Qd2? If so, it seems to me that while this line might avoid immediate loss, it can't possibly give Black equality. -- Camembert 15:13, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I ran deep position analysis last night, and here's what I got, in PGN format. It should be compatible with any Chessbase PGN viewer.
[Event "M-Tel Masters"] [Site "0:44:3O-O:27:42"] [Date "2005.05.21"] [Round "9"] [White "Topalov"] [Black "Ponomariov"] [ECO "E15"] [PlyCount "36"] 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Ba6 5. b3 Bb4+ 6. Bd2 Be7 7. Nc3 O-O 8. Rc1 c6 9. e4 d5 10. e5 Ne4 11. Bd3 Nxc3 12. Rxc3 c5 13. dxc5 bxc5 14. h4 h6 15. Bb1 Nd7 (15... f5 16. exf6 Bxf6 (16... Rxf6 17. Qc2 Nc6 18. Qh7+ Kf7 $18 {1.77/15}) 17. Qc2 dxc4 (17... d4 18. Ng5 hxg5 19. hxg5 dxc3 20. Bf4 Kf7 21. Qg6+ Ke7 22. gxf6+ Rxf6 23. Qxg7+ Rf7 24. Bg5+ Kd6 25. Qxf7 Qxg5 26. Rh7 Qe5+ 27. Kf1 Kc6 28. Qe8+ Kb6 29. Qd8+ Kc6 30. Be4+) 18. bxc4 Nc6 $18 {1.75/14}) (15... d4 16. Rc1 (16. Qc2 g6 17. Rd3 h5 18. Bh6 Re8 $14 {0.26/19}) 16... Bb7 (16... Nd7 17. Bxh6 f5 18. exf6 Nxf6 $16 {0.96/19}) 17. Bxh6 f5 18. Bf4 Re8 $14 {0.55/18}) 16. Re3 (16. Bxh6 f5 (16... Re8 17. Qd3 Nf8 18. Bd2 f5 $14 {0.66/18}) 17. Bf4 Qa5 18. Bd2 (18. Qd2) 18... d4 $11 {0.06/19}) (16. Qc2 f5 17. exf6 Nxf6 18. Re3 Bb7 $11 {-0.10/17}) 16... d4 (16... Bb7 17. Qc2 f5 18. exf6 Nxf6 $11 {0.13/18}) 17. Qc2 f5 18. exf6 Nxf6 $11 {0.07/18}
Points I thought were interesting:
Interesting stuff. ⟳ausa کui × 19:34, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
After two hours of looking at the position after 18. Qd2, Shredder settled on dead equality after an apparent repitition of position: 18...dxc4 19.bxc4 Rad8 20.0-0 Nxe5 21.Qe3 Nxf3+ 22.Qxf3 Rd4 23.Ra3 Qb6 24.Rb3 Qa5 25.Ra3 Qb6 26.Rb3 Qa5 27.Ra3 = (0.00) Depth: 23 ⟳ausa کui × 21:16, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Topalov analyzed this game in New in Chess 2005/5. He called 15 ... f5 a "big mistake" and wrote:
David Sneek 18:56, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
This nasty little rumor originated from the recent San Luis 2005 tournament. What makes it really nasty is that no one came forward to admit they started the rumor. I agree with Nigel Short that such rumors shouldn't even be worth mentioning, and thus I believe it does not belong in this article. Dionyseus 03:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion this allegation doesn't even belong to the discussion. He was accused and proved innocent, and when you are innocent, you shouldn't be put to blame, not even in a discussion-page. Shame on Wikipedia who brings on such nasty rumors, like every sour looser in any sport could blame the winner for cheating and harm his reputation. Worse so it is anonymous. -- Esalen 22:37, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
What the world would be like if Nigel Short ruled the world- scary. I don't really care what Short says- the allegations of cheating are a fact (that is to say, it is a fact that allegations have been made). Whether you consider the way in which they were raised ethical is immaterial. It was news, and plenty of news organizations felt it was sufficiently legitimate to report it. Sure it's unfair for the accuser not to come forward. However that does not mean the allegation was not made. And it is very relevant. Furthermore, on this issue of grammar:
"However, his title is disputed, some regard Vladimir Kramnik as the World Chess Champion because of his victory over Kasparov in 2000."
This is incorrect. "However, his title is disputed." This is a complete sentence. "Many regard Vladimir Kramnik as the World Chess Champion because of his victory over Kasparov in 2000." This is also a complete sentence. You cannot join the two with a comma. That is called a Comma splice. I will now correct the grammar one final time, and I will include the RELEVANT FACTUAL information about the cheating allegations. In the event that my germane and grammatically correct edits are incorrectly modified, I will seek out adjudication with an admin. Danny Pi 04:01, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm not going to comment on the comma splice issue, but with regard to the allegations of Topalov cheating - the edit as it was written did say that allegations had been raised. In otherwords the tidbit of information being conveyed here isn’t that Topalov was cheating, but that he has been accused of cheating. Clearly the accusation did follow the match (which is note-worthy and probably should not be glossed over) and the edition reflects that accurately. I think that the edit should be allowed to stand, with the addendum that the allegations have not been pursued by FIDE and remain just that – allegations. Also, before you get into an edit war you should read the 3 Revert Rule which says that you can have your account suspended if you revert an article 3 times in less than 24 hours. Disputes like this happen all the time, and Wikipedia does have a number of dispute resolution methods. Best to you all. LinuxDude 06:40, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
User:Supinejsupine Thank you! It is a friggin' comma splice, for crying out loud. That shouldn't have been a controversy, but unfortunately it seems there exists a marginal segment of the population intelligent enough to use computers, but not quite intelligent enough to use proper English. Do note, I did attempt mediation. Dionyseus never responded to the mediator's postings on User:Dionyseus's discussion page Danny Pi 05:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Come on, you all know that there was no cheating during the World Chess Championship. Actually, the only one person (that has rights to express opinion at this level) who didnot admit the Topalov's world leadership was Kramnik. After the Kasparov retirement, Topalov was the one to convey the real spirit of chess! Even, the immortal Kasparov admitted Vesko as his successor.
If I weren't aware of Modern Chess History, I would think Topalov does not really deserve the title which is not true. I think it (cheating part of the article) needs some redaction. Rasate 16:49, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Clearly there has also been support against the inclusion of the foolish cheating allegation. The two above me did not include their signatures, but nevertheless it suggests there's support against the inclusion. As for the mediator posting on my talk page back in January, I did post a response on the 3RR page, and they posted a response as well, you should read their response if you haven't. Dionyseus 00:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Did you indeed?
[1] I don't see you having responded at all. Furthermore, the cheating allegations ARE widespread. I fail to see how
User:Ryan_Delaney can declare it so without having participated at all in the discussion. I have tried reporting the incident for mediation. I have tried reasoning the issue out. Regardless of whether you are an admin or not, it does not make sense for you to arbitrarily declare the issue irrelevant by fiat. Look at Kramnik's page by contrast. Why don't you spend your time moderating THAT? The "people" that Dionyseus counts for his support seem to be one person trying to make paragraphs. Furthermore, being unsigned, I'm not convinced it wasn't Dionyseus himself. The people who have posted to this page supporting inclusion are:
LinuxDude, 70.23.236.205,
SWATJester
Ready
Aim, and since Kramnik's page is currently sporting all manner of unsubstantiated rumors, I will infer from
User:Supinejsupine's post that he too supports inclusion.
Danny Pi 13:58, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I said I responded to the 3RR page, remember when you tried to get me blocked back in January because I insisted you keep the "cheating allegation" out of the article, the moderators ended up threatening to block both of us if we didn't resolve it ourselves? I do not appreciate the nasty and personal email DanielPi sent me this morning, I would accept an apology from him though. I agree with administrator Ryan_Delaney, these "cheating allegations" are not widespread and no one even talks about it anymore. The "cheating allegation" is completely unfair to Topalov, and now that it has been over half a year since it happened and no one has talked about it ever since, there's truly no reason to keep it in the article. Dionyseus 19:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
1) Actually the admins suggested we take the issue to the mediation cabal, which I did, to which you did not respond. 2) There is a majority here in FAVOR of including mention of cheating. 3) FIDE said that they would investigate the issue. Since they have not published any conclusions, I think it's safe to say the issue is still an issue. I expect it would take longer than six months to conduct such an investigation anyhow- and who knows if they've even started. 4) The allegations come from a participant in the tournament, so I don't think you can call it a mere rumor. 5) The allegations received a great deal of coverage relative to most chess news, and indeed chessbase, quite likely the most popular chess news source, had an article or two on the issue. 6) As you yourself know, Dionyseus, a good many people consider the allegation serious and substantive. You may personally disagree, but there is nothing near consensus at forums like chessgames.com. 7) While the allegations are admittedly negative to Topalov, it is a FACT that the allegations were made. 8) *I* am not the one stirring up trouble. After you abandoned the argument, I stopped checking wiki for awhile. It turns out that a couple weeks after the issue had resolved, YOU decided to take it upon yourself, outside of mediation, to delete the sentence in question. 9) In terms of attitude, I feel I'm being entirely objective here. The allegations WERE widely reported. I posted links to many respected chess news outlets that reported on it. Mentioning a fact that relates to the subject in question is precisely what wiki should be about. By contrast, you recalcitrantly insisted that your obviously poor grammar "opinion" was correct, in spite of the fact that there has been nearly unanimous opinion that the offending sentence was in fact a comma splice. It is clear that you are the one with the opinionated and stubborn point of view. 10) I don't know your email address, and I have no idea to what you may be refering. 11) Those web polls are the only objective evidence there is. Empirically, almost all of the chess players I've personally spoken with about the issue agree that Kramnik is the champion. I think it is more accurate to say that "most" people consider Kramnik champion. This, again, is a fact. You may question the validity of web polls (although several separate polls seem to agree. However, there is scant evidence that "some" (implying a minority) people consider Kramnik champion, when in fact "most" do. Danny Pi 21:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Hello. A request was made on
WP:3O for a third opinion on this page. The opinion is regarding the issue: whether topalov's alleged cheating belongs in the article My 3rd opinion is that It deserves at least a passing notation. The article, as is appears fine. Pro-cheating advocates are welcome to submit external link to their citations too. Thank you for flying delta.
⇒
SWATJester
Ready
Aim
Fire! 16:50, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Whilst the article doesn't generally discuss the sundry tourneys in which Topalov has played (enumerating victories but including info on MTel only because as a sample game appears infra to the discussion), I wonder whether anyone thinks a few sentences apropos of Linares are in order. Though of course Topalov did not win, he surely made a remarkable comeback, and one might perhaps note that, after the tournament moved to Spain, he scored 5.5/7, beating, notably, Aronian, the winner. Joe 23:04, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Dionyseus- clearly there's support for inclusion on the discussion page. Also, you didn't respond to the moderator, who requested your POV on your discussion page. Don't change this back before clearing it with the moderators. I did. Danny Pi 12:09, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Apologies. Yes, it's 'mediator' not 'moderator'. The mediator was Cyde. The link is: [2]. The admin at the 3RR page suggested mediation, which I pursued. Dionyseus has continued to assert his clearly POV deletions without responding to mediators requests for discussion. Blindly rv-ing without any discussion does not, it seems to me, befit the spirit of wiki. I take umbrage that Dionyseus would imply that *I* am the one being disorderly. As I am the one calling in admins, and I am the one who ends the rv wars, I fail to see how *I'm* the one being a nuisance. If the issue is controversial, I think given Dionyseus's disorderly conduct we should at least leave it tentatively with the sentence included. Danny Pi 21:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I have requested mediation. Please post your POV at [ [3]]. Danny Pi 05:15, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi all. I have taken this mediation case. I will post a response on that page [4] shortly. One thing I need to suggest to all of you is to respect each other as editors. There are a lot of personal attacks and such in this that are really unnecessary. -- Joebeone ( Talk) 23:24, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
The fact is simple: Topalov was accused of cheating during San Luis. His subsequent performances will not change the FACT that he was accused of cheating. Actually, his amazing come-from-behind antics after miserable beginnings only give credibility to the thinking that this guy cheats when he's in trouble. Dionyseus, always slow to absorb new facts, is still trying to refute whether Topalov actually cheated. Now, it is at the moment impossible to prove this point one way or another. But, I cannot make this any more clear: I DON'T CARE IF HE CHEATED. HE WAS ACCUSED. That is the point. The ACCUSATION is news. Whether he actually cheated is IRRELEVANT, since it may never be known whether he did. The point is that he was ACCUSED by a noteworthy source. The mediation has taken place, and it was agreed by all parties that the solution was to mention the cheating. The agreement was not "mention it pending Topalov's result at MTel." ABIDE BY THE MEDIATION! And never ever "assume" that I consider this unworthy of mention. In fact, never assume anything on my behalf, thank you very much. I will let you know if I suddenly have a change of heart and decide that certain FACTS are omissable in an encyclopedia entry. You don't agree to a compromise in mediation and then decide that now is the time to return to an RV war. Try to understand the barest details of an argument if you're going to try to argue against it. And please try to conduct yourself like an adult. It's just exhausting trying to combat these petty infantile tactics. Danny Pi 08:03, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
Dionyseus 11:53, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
Very well. You may write your POV here: [ [9]] Danny Pi 00:02, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone else seen the column by Bobby Ang in BusinessWorld (Philippines) for October 7, 2005? It starts by analyzing a 1998 game by Clemens Allwermann in which Allwermann missed an obvious endgame because the computer he was secretly using missed it too. Ang then analyzes a Topolav-Leko game and recongizes a similar pattern of moves to the Allwermann game. He seems to be suggesting that one of the players could have been cheating, but I'm not a chess player and I can't follow the article. I found it on Lexis/Nexis but I probably can't post it due to copyright. However, it may be a source for the later Post article. Thatcher131 18:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I've created FIDE World Chess Championship 2006, so details on that match can go there, rather than being duplicated on the Kramnik and Topalov page. The page title was chosen because of similar names for 2004 and 2005 FIDE championships. Rocksong 01:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
It says tying for first with Garry Kasparov (though losing on countback) What is countback? RJFJR 15:15, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
An anon IP has removed this paragraph:
Topalov had received similar anonymous accusations in his career after his decisive victory at [[FIDE World Chess Championship 2005|San Luis]].<ref>[http://www.chessolympiad-torino2006.org/eng/index.php?cav=1&dettaglio=259 Topalov Accused of Cheating By an unnamed participant in the World Chess Championship in San Luis]</ref>
I should welcome views, please, as to whether it should go back. BlueValour 22:00, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
There are rumors that Topalov has a microchip in his brain, are these rumors true or not? -- Must WIN 00:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps in April 2006 we could pass off these accusations when there was only one real instance, but as of 2007, Topalov has been accused of cheating on multiple occasions. (Wijk aan Zee [15], AND San Luis) With multiple accusations at different highly ranked tournaments, it is downright ignorant not to at least mention these accusations, true or not. Sloverlord 13:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I didn't mean to start another fight here (although after reading earlier parts of this talk page I probably should've realized that was impossible), I am merely saying that, given the multiple accusations of cheating leveled against Topalov, they should be given a slightly more thorough mention, complete with names of tournaments and people involved. Whether the allegations are true or not cannot be proven. I really don't think there is any need for name calling... to be honest, I've never seen people get so worked up about a chess player. For god's sake, it's not like we're debating the existence of the Holocaust here. Sloverlord 16:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
There is a line in this article which goes: "...including former World Champions Anatoly Karpov, Boris Spassky, Viktor Korchnoi, and Viswanathan Anand, ...". This is misleading, because Korchnoi has never been a world champion, while the other three were (Anand being a former FIDE Knock-Out World Champion). 193.164.229.102 11:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Reassess importance as top for this former World Chess Champion. ChessCreator ( talk) 20:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Wasn't he in an Monk episode where he killed his wife and should it be mentioned in his "career" section even though it wasnt neccesarily anything to do with his Main occupation? -- FailureAtDeath ( talk) 04:19, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
Could someone please add some information pertaining to his performances for Bulgaria at Chess Olympiads? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.38.32.32 ( talk) 17:52, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
"Topalov lost his chance to compete in the 2007 world championship tournament when he the 2006 reunification match." ??? Kingturtle = ( talk) 15:54, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
The white queen is in the wrong place in the diagram. Topalov had not moved his queen by move 12, and the white queen starts out on d1 (not e1). Also, move 17 claims he moved Qc2...but it can't do that from e1.
The citation given (29, http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1482320) agrees with me.
Someone who knows how should update the diagram with the correct position. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.220.177.163 ( talk) 15:35, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
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