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“ | Another example is the word tuckshop which is used in Queensland (and was also once common in other areas) to describe a food outlet on school premises; the term canteen is now used in most parts of Australia. | ” |
I'm from Sydney and have only ever called it a tuckshop never a canteen. Am I getting old or something? Jimp 10Jan06
I grew up in Melbourne, went to primary school in the 1970s and high school in the 1980s. In both schools we had a "tuckshop". I always thought of a "canteen" as a large dining room where everybody ate as well as obtained their food. We had no such room. Our tuckshops were very small and only sold food. Students ate outside. How much of this has changed? — Hippietrail 18:34, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I went to a public primary school from 1981-3 and it was known as a tuckshop. Then I went to a Catholic primary school from 84-87 and it was known as a tuckshop. It was also known as a tuckshop at my Catholic high school too (88-92). These schools were all in SA. I just always assumed that independent-Catholic schools called it tuckshops while goverment schools called it canteen. Frances76 21:06, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I went to a public primary school in eastern NSW (sydney) from 1992-1998 and it was known as a tuckshop. The use of 'tuckshop' was slang and usually had to be clarified formally with the addition of the 'the school' (tuckshop) in school newsletters with a ‘tuckshop roster’ being drawn up. But then went to a british-type private boarding school and the food outlet was referred to as a canteen, before then i always recognized canteen as a type of water bottle or general bottle and tuckshop being the predominant aussie saying for school food outlet or institutional food outlet including the information given about industrial workers on sites, although in stating that the terms may have been borrowed from the original context within the school yard. I only assume Sydney is located in what is considered northern NSW, for tuckshop was the only term used in the state primary school that i went to with population 650+ all using the term tuckshop but this was not so common when i entered 3 private schools with the dominant term being canteen. The tuckshop i experienced was a mere food outlet sans tables and chairs where you purchased food. I believe the inclusion of tuck-shop is warranted in the article and it is the editor is correct in stating that tuckshop still may be used in other areas.
2006, tuckshop is still currently used by the school I work for. Having worked in 3 other schools in Adelaide it was also used there. Growing up in the northern suburbs we used the term canteen at my primary school. Ozdaren 14:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I grew up in Mt. Gamber, SA and the Catholic schools I went to (-> 1980) only used tuckshop. I wonder if its decline is similar to washhouse. ☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 07:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I went to school in Melbourne in the 60's; it was only ever called the tuckshop. Other schools where we played sport also referred to the tuckshop. When I went to uni in the 70's they referred to 'the caf' never a canteen. When my children went to high school in the late 80's they called it the canteen. I guess the change started around the late 70's. Phil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.63.0.55 ( talk) 09:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
I have never heard the word booner in my life and I live in ACT, all my friends say bogan - does anyone have a source for the booner thing?
I see you've edited the paragraph on soccer. The paragraph had read as follows.
In the early 21st century the national governing body for soccer attempted to foster use of "football" to mean soccer, in accordance with general international usage. However, use of the word "football", to mean either Australian rules or one of the rugby football codes, is well-established in Australia, and the belated attempt to change this has not been generally accepted by common usage.
It not reads like this.
In the early 21st century the national governing body for football (soccer) attempted to foster use of "football" to mean soccer, in accordance with general international usage. It is yet to be seen whether this will spead into the mainstream, however it is important to note that several media outlets have adopted the use of the word football in accordance with this.
I'm considering adjusting the paragraph accordingly. I'll not simply revert you but I'm thinking of rewriting the paragraph to attempt to include both view points. How about this?
In the early 21st century the national governing body for soccer attempted to foster use of "football" to mean soccer, in accordance with general international usage and several media outlets have adopted the use of the word "football" in accordance with this. It is yet to be seen whether this will spead into the mainstream, however, use of the word "football", to mean either Australian rules or one of the rugby football codes, is well-established in Australia.
Jimp 7&8 March 2006 (UTC)
I've removed westie from the following paragraph.
There are many regional variations for describing social classes or subcultures. The best example is probably bogan (fairly universal), which is also referred to as bevan in Queensland, westie around Sydney, and booner in the ACT.
Westie is not synonymous with bogan, bevan and/or booner. A westie is a resident of Penrith, Paramatta, the western suburbs of Sydney, etc. The terms bogan, bevan and/or booner refer to such things as appearance, taste and attitude. Westies may be stereotyped as being bogans and many of them may indeed be bogans but the terms have different meanings. Jimp 02:22, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
See also
Jimp 01:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
User:AmishThrasher had put it back. I've removed it again. I've brought the above over from AusE Talk to explain my move. Jimp 15:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I've removed it again. Jimp 08:15, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
... and again ... JIMp talk· cont 00:12, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
I find there are a couple of differences in the way Victorians speak that separate them from the rest of Australians. It seems to be more distinct with people from regional areas but still noticeable with Melburnians. Firstly words such as "castle" that rhymes with "hassle" rather than "parcel", though it doesn't seem to be the case with everyone. But the one that I find is common for most Victorians is the swapping of the "al" and "el" vocal sounds, so that "mELbourne" sounds like "mALbourne", "ALcohol" sounds like "ELcohol", "bALcony" sounds like "bELcony" etc Also I am led to believe that in Sydney (maybe other parts of NSW and maybe Queensland) for words such as "school" and "pool", the "oo" rhymes with that of "food" rather than "good". thoughts? Lukeoz 11:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Of course school rhymes with food and pool rather than with good except in South Australia, and it is not accent but pronunciation of certain words which varies in Australia - at least among people who grew up speaking the English language in every state except SA. The turning of a short A into a short E, a short E into a short I and a short I into a schwa is an influence from a foreign country, where vowels are in short supply, Remember, we are talking about Australian English.
What an interesting article. Well done, cobbers! -- Gazzster 09:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Talk to people from Toowoomba! I was talking to them and they sounded different. Seriously!! 210.49.85.32 ( talk) 11:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Currently the article mentions that, "Distinctive grammatical patterns exist such as the use of the interrogative eh? and the position of the word but at the end of a sentence in Queensland ("But I don't like him" becomes "I don't like him but")." However, I've lived in Queensland all my life, and virutally never have I heard it being used in the manner it appears to imply here.
"He's pretty friendly, but I don't like him." "I don't like him, but he's pretty friendly."
Those are the ways I've almost always heard such a sentence being uttered or written. "He's friendly and all. I don't like him but." would most likely be met by the reply, "But what?" as an explanation of why the first person doesn't like him would then be expected. Perhaps it's used in West Queensland or some areas of Far North or South East Queensland, but certainly not in Central or North Queensland. 110.174.248.198 ( talk) 16:03, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
putting 'but' on the end of a sentence like that is quite common, i grew up in nsw and use it often. its not 'cultivated' perhaps buts its defs an australian thing, and i find it expressive and useful. it performs a similar function to using 'though' at the end of the sentence in spoken english, eg "i'm not sorry though" or "it's pretty funny though" - for emphasis, and qualification. (e.g. "he's very good at football" ... "i don't like him but.") 77.202.79.121 ( talk) 10:54, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I was a bit surprised by this inclusion. I realise it's a fairly subjective area and Gillard definitely has a broader accent than, say, Rudd and Downer, but are we really placing her in the same category as Steve Irwin and Paul Hogan? Sources might be nice. ~ Riana ⁂ 08:50, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, the first 2 reliable sources I found say that she has a Broad accent. Guess I just don't hear it! I'll pop them in the article. I totally look like a crazy person talking all by herself. ~ Riana ⁂ 09:03, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I like the table of broad, general, and cultivated varieties, but curious why the vowel of THOUGHT is given as [ɔː] in the table. Australian English shows [oː] instead. Is [ɔː] a mistake due to the symbol used for RP, or is it based on a source?
Also, I thought /iː/ was diphthongized in broad Australian, but the table doesn't show this. — Eru· tuon 20:04, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:50, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
When people come to Melbourne they pronounce Malvern as Melvern. Interestingly Benalla is pronounced Benella- When travelling with my dog, Ella people in NSW hear that I'm calling her Allah but they pronounce it Elha like USAmericans. even though I call it Bourke Street Mall in Bendigo Pall Mall is pronounced Pell Mell- I believe this is how Pall Mall is pronounced in London as it has to do with a Croket field as it has a reference to Mallet- having said that I cannot pronounce Ellen and Allan differently and Peta and Peter are pronounced the same- Poida. Ferry and Fairy are definitely pronounced differently. My conclusion is that all Vowles are interchangeable, but I'm definitely not going to pronounce Spanish Vowles the way Nth Americans do. but definitely people outside of Melbourne pronounce, Malvern as Melvern. 124.170.111.13 ( talk) 07:36, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
Victoria the hard a in castle is only used in reference to place names and in particular Castlemaine, no one would refer to a building which is a castle with a hard A... I wish I could remember how to use IPA spelling. 124.170.111.13 ( talk) 08:04, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
I've tried for years to pronounce the human-made body of water differently to the suburb which has many human-made bodies of water, but calling a reservoir a resewah, sounds like ya a wanker- Don't get me wrong I know how to pronounce Moet and other such things. Is this an appropriate time to bring up the letter H, or is that a whole different discussion? 124.170.111.13 ( talk) 08:13, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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“ | Another example is the word tuckshop which is used in Queensland (and was also once common in other areas) to describe a food outlet on school premises; the term canteen is now used in most parts of Australia. | ” |
I'm from Sydney and have only ever called it a tuckshop never a canteen. Am I getting old or something? Jimp 10Jan06
I grew up in Melbourne, went to primary school in the 1970s and high school in the 1980s. In both schools we had a "tuckshop". I always thought of a "canteen" as a large dining room where everybody ate as well as obtained their food. We had no such room. Our tuckshops were very small and only sold food. Students ate outside. How much of this has changed? — Hippietrail 18:34, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I went to a public primary school from 1981-3 and it was known as a tuckshop. Then I went to a Catholic primary school from 84-87 and it was known as a tuckshop. It was also known as a tuckshop at my Catholic high school too (88-92). These schools were all in SA. I just always assumed that independent-Catholic schools called it tuckshops while goverment schools called it canteen. Frances76 21:06, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I went to a public primary school in eastern NSW (sydney) from 1992-1998 and it was known as a tuckshop. The use of 'tuckshop' was slang and usually had to be clarified formally with the addition of the 'the school' (tuckshop) in school newsletters with a ‘tuckshop roster’ being drawn up. But then went to a british-type private boarding school and the food outlet was referred to as a canteen, before then i always recognized canteen as a type of water bottle or general bottle and tuckshop being the predominant aussie saying for school food outlet or institutional food outlet including the information given about industrial workers on sites, although in stating that the terms may have been borrowed from the original context within the school yard. I only assume Sydney is located in what is considered northern NSW, for tuckshop was the only term used in the state primary school that i went to with population 650+ all using the term tuckshop but this was not so common when i entered 3 private schools with the dominant term being canteen. The tuckshop i experienced was a mere food outlet sans tables and chairs where you purchased food. I believe the inclusion of tuck-shop is warranted in the article and it is the editor is correct in stating that tuckshop still may be used in other areas.
2006, tuckshop is still currently used by the school I work for. Having worked in 3 other schools in Adelaide it was also used there. Growing up in the northern suburbs we used the term canteen at my primary school. Ozdaren 14:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I grew up in Mt. Gamber, SA and the Catholic schools I went to (-> 1980) only used tuckshop. I wonder if its decline is similar to washhouse. ☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 07:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I went to school in Melbourne in the 60's; it was only ever called the tuckshop. Other schools where we played sport also referred to the tuckshop. When I went to uni in the 70's they referred to 'the caf' never a canteen. When my children went to high school in the late 80's they called it the canteen. I guess the change started around the late 70's. Phil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.63.0.55 ( talk) 09:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
I have never heard the word booner in my life and I live in ACT, all my friends say bogan - does anyone have a source for the booner thing?
I see you've edited the paragraph on soccer. The paragraph had read as follows.
In the early 21st century the national governing body for soccer attempted to foster use of "football" to mean soccer, in accordance with general international usage. However, use of the word "football", to mean either Australian rules or one of the rugby football codes, is well-established in Australia, and the belated attempt to change this has not been generally accepted by common usage.
It not reads like this.
In the early 21st century the national governing body for football (soccer) attempted to foster use of "football" to mean soccer, in accordance with general international usage. It is yet to be seen whether this will spead into the mainstream, however it is important to note that several media outlets have adopted the use of the word football in accordance with this.
I'm considering adjusting the paragraph accordingly. I'll not simply revert you but I'm thinking of rewriting the paragraph to attempt to include both view points. How about this?
In the early 21st century the national governing body for soccer attempted to foster use of "football" to mean soccer, in accordance with general international usage and several media outlets have adopted the use of the word "football" in accordance with this. It is yet to be seen whether this will spead into the mainstream, however, use of the word "football", to mean either Australian rules or one of the rugby football codes, is well-established in Australia.
Jimp 7&8 March 2006 (UTC)
I've removed westie from the following paragraph.
There are many regional variations for describing social classes or subcultures. The best example is probably bogan (fairly universal), which is also referred to as bevan in Queensland, westie around Sydney, and booner in the ACT.
Westie is not synonymous with bogan, bevan and/or booner. A westie is a resident of Penrith, Paramatta, the western suburbs of Sydney, etc. The terms bogan, bevan and/or booner refer to such things as appearance, taste and attitude. Westies may be stereotyped as being bogans and many of them may indeed be bogans but the terms have different meanings. Jimp 02:22, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
See also
Jimp 01:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
User:AmishThrasher had put it back. I've removed it again. I've brought the above over from AusE Talk to explain my move. Jimp 15:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I've removed it again. Jimp 08:15, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
... and again ... JIMp talk· cont 00:12, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
I find there are a couple of differences in the way Victorians speak that separate them from the rest of Australians. It seems to be more distinct with people from regional areas but still noticeable with Melburnians. Firstly words such as "castle" that rhymes with "hassle" rather than "parcel", though it doesn't seem to be the case with everyone. But the one that I find is common for most Victorians is the swapping of the "al" and "el" vocal sounds, so that "mELbourne" sounds like "mALbourne", "ALcohol" sounds like "ELcohol", "bALcony" sounds like "bELcony" etc Also I am led to believe that in Sydney (maybe other parts of NSW and maybe Queensland) for words such as "school" and "pool", the "oo" rhymes with that of "food" rather than "good". thoughts? Lukeoz 11:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Of course school rhymes with food and pool rather than with good except in South Australia, and it is not accent but pronunciation of certain words which varies in Australia - at least among people who grew up speaking the English language in every state except SA. The turning of a short A into a short E, a short E into a short I and a short I into a schwa is an influence from a foreign country, where vowels are in short supply, Remember, we are talking about Australian English.
What an interesting article. Well done, cobbers! -- Gazzster 09:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Talk to people from Toowoomba! I was talking to them and they sounded different. Seriously!! 210.49.85.32 ( talk) 11:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Currently the article mentions that, "Distinctive grammatical patterns exist such as the use of the interrogative eh? and the position of the word but at the end of a sentence in Queensland ("But I don't like him" becomes "I don't like him but")." However, I've lived in Queensland all my life, and virutally never have I heard it being used in the manner it appears to imply here.
"He's pretty friendly, but I don't like him." "I don't like him, but he's pretty friendly."
Those are the ways I've almost always heard such a sentence being uttered or written. "He's friendly and all. I don't like him but." would most likely be met by the reply, "But what?" as an explanation of why the first person doesn't like him would then be expected. Perhaps it's used in West Queensland or some areas of Far North or South East Queensland, but certainly not in Central or North Queensland. 110.174.248.198 ( talk) 16:03, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
putting 'but' on the end of a sentence like that is quite common, i grew up in nsw and use it often. its not 'cultivated' perhaps buts its defs an australian thing, and i find it expressive and useful. it performs a similar function to using 'though' at the end of the sentence in spoken english, eg "i'm not sorry though" or "it's pretty funny though" - for emphasis, and qualification. (e.g. "he's very good at football" ... "i don't like him but.") 77.202.79.121 ( talk) 10:54, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I was a bit surprised by this inclusion. I realise it's a fairly subjective area and Gillard definitely has a broader accent than, say, Rudd and Downer, but are we really placing her in the same category as Steve Irwin and Paul Hogan? Sources might be nice. ~ Riana ⁂ 08:50, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, the first 2 reliable sources I found say that she has a Broad accent. Guess I just don't hear it! I'll pop them in the article. I totally look like a crazy person talking all by herself. ~ Riana ⁂ 09:03, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I like the table of broad, general, and cultivated varieties, but curious why the vowel of THOUGHT is given as [ɔː] in the table. Australian English shows [oː] instead. Is [ɔː] a mistake due to the symbol used for RP, or is it based on a source?
Also, I thought /iː/ was diphthongized in broad Australian, but the table doesn't show this. — Eru· tuon 20:04, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:50, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
When people come to Melbourne they pronounce Malvern as Melvern. Interestingly Benalla is pronounced Benella- When travelling with my dog, Ella people in NSW hear that I'm calling her Allah but they pronounce it Elha like USAmericans. even though I call it Bourke Street Mall in Bendigo Pall Mall is pronounced Pell Mell- I believe this is how Pall Mall is pronounced in London as it has to do with a Croket field as it has a reference to Mallet- having said that I cannot pronounce Ellen and Allan differently and Peta and Peter are pronounced the same- Poida. Ferry and Fairy are definitely pronounced differently. My conclusion is that all Vowles are interchangeable, but I'm definitely not going to pronounce Spanish Vowles the way Nth Americans do. but definitely people outside of Melbourne pronounce, Malvern as Melvern. 124.170.111.13 ( talk) 07:36, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
Victoria the hard a in castle is only used in reference to place names and in particular Castlemaine, no one would refer to a building which is a castle with a hard A... I wish I could remember how to use IPA spelling. 124.170.111.13 ( talk) 08:04, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
I've tried for years to pronounce the human-made body of water differently to the suburb which has many human-made bodies of water, but calling a reservoir a resewah, sounds like ya a wanker- Don't get me wrong I know how to pronounce Moet and other such things. Is this an appropriate time to bring up the letter H, or is that a whole different discussion? 124.170.111.13 ( talk) 08:13, 14 June 2023 (UTC)