Thanks for the nice review. I will get working on it, but remember that V. salvadorii has been poorly studied in comparison to the Komodo dragon. There have been no long term studies in the wild on it yet, and there is still a lot to be discovered about it in terms of physiology, phylogeny, etc. I've alerted my collab buddy Mike Searson for some help, because he has access to more sources than I do. bibliomaniac1502:30, 6 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Distribution
Done Need to clarify and wikilink the geographical terms. I've copyedited. What do you think of the result?
Yep, looks good.
Done Needs a map to show the location. I've added one.
The map implied that the monitor occurred throughout New Guinea when that is not the case. I will be working on a better range map.
Thanks, Bibliomaniac15. I've noticed that the text says "the extent of its range is unknown", so the range in the map needs a ref. --
Philcha (
talk)
09:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Done Could do with a good pic to illustrate the skin coloration. The one in the zoo (
Image:CrocMonitor.jpg) does this but it does not show up well at thumb size. I'd make a copy of it, crop it to focus on the lizard, and use that.
I've cropped the image.
Thanks. Yesterday I wanted the same result at
Sponge but was fed up with cluttering my HD with images (and with the Upload Image tax return), and realised
Template:Annotated image can crop and even over-write bits of images - see fossil sponge (cropped) and archaeocyathid (cropped, numbers in image over-written). --
Philcha (
talk)
10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Description
What features distinguish it from the other 6 New Guinea varanids?
Shape of the head, length, the fact that it's strictly arboreal.
I mainly edit paleontology articles, where
synapomorphies are important, i.e. really unambigous distinguishing featres. Length would not distinguish a juvenile, and arboreality would not identify a dead one. What's distinctive about the head? Or e.g. the coloration, which is often distinctive in birds? --
Philcha (
talk)
10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)reply
What features make it a varanid?
Basic morphology and diet, plus I'm sure phylogeny.
Horn, H-G. (2004). "Varanus salvadorii". In Pianka, E.R., King, D., and King, R.A. (ed.).
Varanoid Lizards of the World. Indiana University Press. pp. 234–244.
ISBN0253343666. Retrieved 2008-11-24.{{
cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (
link) says how zoolgists identify it. I could not find a visual "field guide" of the type that's commmon for e.g. birds. --
Philcha (
talk)
22:21, 7 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Needs minor copyedit, which I'll do after distinguishing and varanid features covered.
Done The verbal comparison with
Komodo dragon is a bit of a tease, and in fact this article gives no adult weight for V.salvadorii. I'd consider a table.
Done Any other interactions with humans besides biting and croc warnings, e.g. stealing livestock, uses of parts of the lizard by humans (apart from drumskins), spreading diseases to humans or livestock?
The do not live close to where humans live...people have to go into the jungles and mangroves to find them. These are not like the water or mangrove monitors.--
Mike -
Μολὼν λαβέ00:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Done Phylogeny. Not hugely detailed, but covering relationships to lizards in general, varanids in general and a handful of very closely-related varanids.
Googling for "Varanus savadorii distinguishing distinctive feature synapomorphy" got nothing at all. Googling for "Varanid varanidae distinguishing distinctive feature synapomorphy" got me "The Evolution of Species of the Varanidae - Microcomplement Fixation Analysis of Serum Albumins" and Googling for "The Evolution of Species of the Varanidae - Microcomplement Fixation Analysis of Serum Albumins" to see what cited produced many promising-looking leads, although probably most are more relevant to the family
Varanidae. --
Philcha (
talk)
10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Done How and when it got to New Guinea, and from where. Indonesia, New Guinea and Australia all have well-known varanids, of 3 different lineages according to one page I saw, so there may be quite an interesting story there.
Metabolism. IIRC varanids have above-average BMR for lizards, and an air-gulping mechanism that provides a partial work-round for
Carrier's constraint. Has any one done any lab tests on V.salvadorii or any very close relatives?
I understand that, paleo has analogous problems, not to mention some areas of modern zoology. I've worked with you before and if you say there's no material, I'll believe you. --
Philcha (
talk)
10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)reply
This review started 15 days ago, and the pace is still dead slow. For all the points I've raised above, please either do something about them or explain why nothing can or should be done. --
Philcha (
talk)
09:49, 20 November 2008 (UTC)reply
My conclusion is simply that there's just not a whole lot published about these guys. If I could find what you're asking for in a reliable printed source I'd put it in there.--
Mike -
Μολὼν λαβέ00:22, 24 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Re phylogeny and possibly migration routes & history, Molnar, R.E, and Pianka, E.R. (2004). "Biogeography and Phylogeny of Varanoids". In Pianka, E.R., King, D., and King, R.A. (ed.).
Varanoid Lizards of the World. Indiana University Press. pp. 68–76.
ISBN0253343666. Retrieved 2008-11-24.{{
cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) looks right on the money. I found it from
Pianka's page that
bibliomaniac mentioned earlier. That web page also contains a tentative cladogram, and with the book to cite as well it's clear Pianka is an authority. In the same book, Horn, H-G. (2004). "Varanus salvadorii". In Pianka, E.R., King, D., and King, R.A. (ed.).
Varanoid Lizards of the World. Indiana University Press. pp. 234–244.
ISBN0253343666. Retrieved 2008-11-24.{{
cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (
link) seems to have almost everything else you (or I) ever wanted to know about this lizard. This article already cites the book in a vague sort of way. Now mine it out quickly, before Google Books changes it's mind!
There was a reason why I cited "Varanoid Lizards of the World" twice, in the format that I used. Refs to books are expected to specify pages or page ranges for specific points (
Wikipedia:Cite#Including_page_numbers). I generally treat a chapter as equivalent to a journal article, mainly to stop the refs list at the bottom from getting humungous. If you open the edit window for this section you can copy the correct citation formats. --
Philcha (
talk)
22:48, 24 November 2008 (UTC)reply
I'd say fail the article in the next couple days if the final issues aren't dealt with; if they are then pass; the on hold period should've been over a month ago.
Wizardman20:21, 19 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Metabolism and description? I don't know what else to add. Fail it if you must, it's still better than the bulk of what passes for GA's out there.--
Mike -
Μολὼν λαβέ16:02, 20 December 2008 (UTC)reply
It would have helped if you'd posted comments, preferably under the bullet items, when you'd finished.
Thanks for the nice review. I will get working on it, but remember that V. salvadorii has been poorly studied in comparison to the Komodo dragon. There have been no long term studies in the wild on it yet, and there is still a lot to be discovered about it in terms of physiology, phylogeny, etc. I've alerted my collab buddy Mike Searson for some help, because he has access to more sources than I do. bibliomaniac1502:30, 6 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Distribution
Done Need to clarify and wikilink the geographical terms. I've copyedited. What do you think of the result?
Yep, looks good.
Done Needs a map to show the location. I've added one.
The map implied that the monitor occurred throughout New Guinea when that is not the case. I will be working on a better range map.
Thanks, Bibliomaniac15. I've noticed that the text says "the extent of its range is unknown", so the range in the map needs a ref. --
Philcha (
talk)
09:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Done Could do with a good pic to illustrate the skin coloration. The one in the zoo (
Image:CrocMonitor.jpg) does this but it does not show up well at thumb size. I'd make a copy of it, crop it to focus on the lizard, and use that.
I've cropped the image.
Thanks. Yesterday I wanted the same result at
Sponge but was fed up with cluttering my HD with images (and with the Upload Image tax return), and realised
Template:Annotated image can crop and even over-write bits of images - see fossil sponge (cropped) and archaeocyathid (cropped, numbers in image over-written). --
Philcha (
talk)
10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Description
What features distinguish it from the other 6 New Guinea varanids?
Shape of the head, length, the fact that it's strictly arboreal.
I mainly edit paleontology articles, where
synapomorphies are important, i.e. really unambigous distinguishing featres. Length would not distinguish a juvenile, and arboreality would not identify a dead one. What's distinctive about the head? Or e.g. the coloration, which is often distinctive in birds? --
Philcha (
talk)
10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)reply
What features make it a varanid?
Basic morphology and diet, plus I'm sure phylogeny.
Horn, H-G. (2004). "Varanus salvadorii". In Pianka, E.R., King, D., and King, R.A. (ed.).
Varanoid Lizards of the World. Indiana University Press. pp. 234–244.
ISBN0253343666. Retrieved 2008-11-24.{{
cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (
link) says how zoolgists identify it. I could not find a visual "field guide" of the type that's commmon for e.g. birds. --
Philcha (
talk)
22:21, 7 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Needs minor copyedit, which I'll do after distinguishing and varanid features covered.
Done The verbal comparison with
Komodo dragon is a bit of a tease, and in fact this article gives no adult weight for V.salvadorii. I'd consider a table.
Done Any other interactions with humans besides biting and croc warnings, e.g. stealing livestock, uses of parts of the lizard by humans (apart from drumskins), spreading diseases to humans or livestock?
The do not live close to where humans live...people have to go into the jungles and mangroves to find them. These are not like the water or mangrove monitors.--
Mike -
Μολὼν λαβέ00:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Done Phylogeny. Not hugely detailed, but covering relationships to lizards in general, varanids in general and a handful of very closely-related varanids.
Googling for "Varanus savadorii distinguishing distinctive feature synapomorphy" got nothing at all. Googling for "Varanid varanidae distinguishing distinctive feature synapomorphy" got me "The Evolution of Species of the Varanidae - Microcomplement Fixation Analysis of Serum Albumins" and Googling for "The Evolution of Species of the Varanidae - Microcomplement Fixation Analysis of Serum Albumins" to see what cited produced many promising-looking leads, although probably most are more relevant to the family
Varanidae. --
Philcha (
talk)
10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Done How and when it got to New Guinea, and from where. Indonesia, New Guinea and Australia all have well-known varanids, of 3 different lineages according to one page I saw, so there may be quite an interesting story there.
Metabolism. IIRC varanids have above-average BMR for lizards, and an air-gulping mechanism that provides a partial work-round for
Carrier's constraint. Has any one done any lab tests on V.salvadorii or any very close relatives?
I understand that, paleo has analogous problems, not to mention some areas of modern zoology. I've worked with you before and if you say there's no material, I'll believe you. --
Philcha (
talk)
10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)reply
This review started 15 days ago, and the pace is still dead slow. For all the points I've raised above, please either do something about them or explain why nothing can or should be done. --
Philcha (
talk)
09:49, 20 November 2008 (UTC)reply
My conclusion is simply that there's just not a whole lot published about these guys. If I could find what you're asking for in a reliable printed source I'd put it in there.--
Mike -
Μολὼν λαβέ00:22, 24 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Re phylogeny and possibly migration routes & history, Molnar, R.E, and Pianka, E.R. (2004). "Biogeography and Phylogeny of Varanoids". In Pianka, E.R., King, D., and King, R.A. (ed.).
Varanoid Lizards of the World. Indiana University Press. pp. 68–76.
ISBN0253343666. Retrieved 2008-11-24.{{
cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) looks right on the money. I found it from
Pianka's page that
bibliomaniac mentioned earlier. That web page also contains a tentative cladogram, and with the book to cite as well it's clear Pianka is an authority. In the same book, Horn, H-G. (2004). "Varanus salvadorii". In Pianka, E.R., King, D., and King, R.A. (ed.).
Varanoid Lizards of the World. Indiana University Press. pp. 234–244.
ISBN0253343666. Retrieved 2008-11-24.{{
cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (
link) seems to have almost everything else you (or I) ever wanted to know about this lizard. This article already cites the book in a vague sort of way. Now mine it out quickly, before Google Books changes it's mind!
There was a reason why I cited "Varanoid Lizards of the World" twice, in the format that I used. Refs to books are expected to specify pages or page ranges for specific points (
Wikipedia:Cite#Including_page_numbers). I generally treat a chapter as equivalent to a journal article, mainly to stop the refs list at the bottom from getting humungous. If you open the edit window for this section you can copy the correct citation formats. --
Philcha (
talk)
22:48, 24 November 2008 (UTC)reply
I'd say fail the article in the next couple days if the final issues aren't dealt with; if they are then pass; the on hold period should've been over a month ago.
Wizardman20:21, 19 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Metabolism and description? I don't know what else to add. Fail it if you must, it's still better than the bulk of what passes for GA's out there.--
Mike -
Μολὼν λαβέ16:02, 20 December 2008 (UTC)reply
It would have helped if you'd posted comments, preferably under the bullet items, when you'd finished.