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I see more discussions about Vanic tribe history/prehistory here, saying they did not fight with each other, and implying they were non-Indo European. I'd like to have a few more references for these rather definite statements. I wonder whether there is a consensus view amongst historians about this though. Martijn faassen 22:07, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Maybe something should be added about Venus here, Venus and Vanir seems to come from the same IE root, also they seem to share similar mythological traits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.112.113.118 ( talk) 09:05, 2 December 2004 (UTC)
I reverted this:
I've never come across this in the lore. Also, the war between the Vanir and Aesir (which occurs in the mythological past) is not the same as Ragnarok (which occurs in the future). — Ashley Y 05:01, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)
I'm posting the same question here as on Talk:Æsir#Æsir or æsir?: should "Vanir" be written with lower or upper case initial? Salleman 4 July 2005 16:04 (UTC)
From the first sentence of the Members section: ...and Freyja, goddess of love and sexuality, who lived among the Æsir at Yggdrasil directly below the Æsir. Did she live among or directly below the Æsir? --( Mingus ah um 04:46, 15 April 2006 (UTC))
I'm requesting more info from Ashley Y on this, and Ashley has a standing request that people mention article discussions in the article page.
I'm curious to know about the Heimdall/Vanir link. It would be a good thing to expound upon in the article, but I'm asking for my own understnding.
Liastnir 14:10, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
According to this annotaded version of Völuspá:
The cult of the Wanes (Vanir) seems to have originated among the seafaring folk of the Baltic and the southern shores of the North Sea, and to have spread thence into Norway in opposition to the worship of the older gods; hence the "war." Finally the two types of divinities were worshipped in common; hence the treaty which ended the war with the exchange of hostages. Chief among the Wanes were Njorth and his children, Freyr and Freyja, all of whom became conspicuous among the gods. Beyond this we know little of the Wanes, who seem originally to have been water-deities.
This is similar to the Parallels section in the article, although not exactly the same. Shinobu ( talk) 10:15, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
It in fact seems to describe about the opposite from the article's Parallels section. This would agree with the text of the Völuspá, in which the Vanir entered and were victorious over the Æsir, but then of course myth is myth and perhaps not to be taken too literally. Shinobu ( talk) 17:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Maybe, Sif, wife of Thorr,was Van before marriage? What's about another wives of Æsir? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.86.230.114 ( talk • contribs) 07:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
The article is written in a way that seems like it's talking about a real thing; should it be changed to a different point of view to avoid confusion? Kausill ( talk) 03:40, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
A quick research on the Vanir, as is also stated in the very introduction of this article, will tell that the Vanir are only attested in Old Norse sources. There is trouble even drawing evidence of them among other Germanic cultures. To say they are a broad Indo-European topic or a reflection of "Indo-European X" is plainly wrong and lacking in evidence. There is no mention of the Vanir or parallels, in say, the Paleo-Balkan, Celtic, Greek or Roman religions - from other Indo-European peoples - and because of that, the references to Indo-Europeans and Proto-Indo-Europeans in the article should be replaced by Old Norse and Pre-Germanic. Please provide a case for undoing such editions, or don't undo them for no reason. 187.36.176.42 ( talk) 17:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
Neolithic Europe does not equate to "Pre-Indo-European", the Proto-Indo-European and the ancestors of the Proto-Indo-Europeans were also part of Neolithic Europe. Using such dual terms Indo-European/Pre-Indo-European may induce the fallacy of basing the entirety of historic on a single topic. Thus, it is better to refer to the gods of ancient europe as Gods from ancient times, as they may stem from time immemorial not just a pre-Indo-European/Indo-European era - that is a limited view.
Also, while the Vanir are popularly seems as "fertility gods", this very view is an archaism, a conception held by early scholars who first analised the pre-Christian European religion, but still through a christian-dominated view. Modern scholars, including the sourced Dumézil translated by Lindow, do not necessarily apply the term "fertility gods" as a classification for the entirety of the Vanir. Their so-called structuralist view only stresses that they fulfilled certain structural functions but, for instance, divide gods responsible for fertility between the Aesir and Vanir. In fact, many modern scholars even question the idea/archetype of 'fertility gods', so-called, ever being an actual belief and function held by the ancient pagan worldview to attribute to their gods.
The changes I made to the text are substantiated and should stand, while ( User talk:Bloodofox) gives no reason for his reversals. ( User talk:187.36.176.42) 05:56, 01 April 2021 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I see more discussions about Vanic tribe history/prehistory here, saying they did not fight with each other, and implying they were non-Indo European. I'd like to have a few more references for these rather definite statements. I wonder whether there is a consensus view amongst historians about this though. Martijn faassen 22:07, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Maybe something should be added about Venus here, Venus and Vanir seems to come from the same IE root, also they seem to share similar mythological traits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.112.113.118 ( talk) 09:05, 2 December 2004 (UTC)
I reverted this:
I've never come across this in the lore. Also, the war between the Vanir and Aesir (which occurs in the mythological past) is not the same as Ragnarok (which occurs in the future). — Ashley Y 05:01, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)
I'm posting the same question here as on Talk:Æsir#Æsir or æsir?: should "Vanir" be written with lower or upper case initial? Salleman 4 July 2005 16:04 (UTC)
From the first sentence of the Members section: ...and Freyja, goddess of love and sexuality, who lived among the Æsir at Yggdrasil directly below the Æsir. Did she live among or directly below the Æsir? --( Mingus ah um 04:46, 15 April 2006 (UTC))
I'm requesting more info from Ashley Y on this, and Ashley has a standing request that people mention article discussions in the article page.
I'm curious to know about the Heimdall/Vanir link. It would be a good thing to expound upon in the article, but I'm asking for my own understnding.
Liastnir 14:10, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
According to this annotaded version of Völuspá:
The cult of the Wanes (Vanir) seems to have originated among the seafaring folk of the Baltic and the southern shores of the North Sea, and to have spread thence into Norway in opposition to the worship of the older gods; hence the "war." Finally the two types of divinities were worshipped in common; hence the treaty which ended the war with the exchange of hostages. Chief among the Wanes were Njorth and his children, Freyr and Freyja, all of whom became conspicuous among the gods. Beyond this we know little of the Wanes, who seem originally to have been water-deities.
This is similar to the Parallels section in the article, although not exactly the same. Shinobu ( talk) 10:15, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
It in fact seems to describe about the opposite from the article's Parallels section. This would agree with the text of the Völuspá, in which the Vanir entered and were victorious over the Æsir, but then of course myth is myth and perhaps not to be taken too literally. Shinobu ( talk) 17:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Maybe, Sif, wife of Thorr,was Van before marriage? What's about another wives of Æsir? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.86.230.114 ( talk • contribs) 07:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
The article is written in a way that seems like it's talking about a real thing; should it be changed to a different point of view to avoid confusion? Kausill ( talk) 03:40, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
A quick research on the Vanir, as is also stated in the very introduction of this article, will tell that the Vanir are only attested in Old Norse sources. There is trouble even drawing evidence of them among other Germanic cultures. To say they are a broad Indo-European topic or a reflection of "Indo-European X" is plainly wrong and lacking in evidence. There is no mention of the Vanir or parallels, in say, the Paleo-Balkan, Celtic, Greek or Roman religions - from other Indo-European peoples - and because of that, the references to Indo-Europeans and Proto-Indo-Europeans in the article should be replaced by Old Norse and Pre-Germanic. Please provide a case for undoing such editions, or don't undo them for no reason. 187.36.176.42 ( talk) 17:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
Neolithic Europe does not equate to "Pre-Indo-European", the Proto-Indo-European and the ancestors of the Proto-Indo-Europeans were also part of Neolithic Europe. Using such dual terms Indo-European/Pre-Indo-European may induce the fallacy of basing the entirety of historic on a single topic. Thus, it is better to refer to the gods of ancient europe as Gods from ancient times, as they may stem from time immemorial not just a pre-Indo-European/Indo-European era - that is a limited view.
Also, while the Vanir are popularly seems as "fertility gods", this very view is an archaism, a conception held by early scholars who first analised the pre-Christian European religion, but still through a christian-dominated view. Modern scholars, including the sourced Dumézil translated by Lindow, do not necessarily apply the term "fertility gods" as a classification for the entirety of the Vanir. Their so-called structuralist view only stresses that they fulfilled certain structural functions but, for instance, divide gods responsible for fertility between the Aesir and Vanir. In fact, many modern scholars even question the idea/archetype of 'fertility gods', so-called, ever being an actual belief and function held by the ancient pagan worldview to attribute to their gods.
The changes I made to the text are substantiated and should stand, while ( User talk:Bloodofox) gives no reason for his reversals. ( User talk:187.36.176.42) 05:56, 01 April 2021 (UTC)