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Finally we have an edit summary from the IP user who kept deleting comparisons to other cities on the continent, such as
While I agree Canadian comparisons should come first, Vancouverites are acutely aware of their coastal location, their distance from the other major metro areas of Canada, and the nearness of the border & Seattle. Many people, Vancouverites & others, may be surprised to learn just what a footprint Vancouver leaves on the continent, and if asked to name the top 2 most populous metros north of San Francisco & west of Chicago, would soon stumble. Vancouver is not just a Canadian city, and especially evident with the 2010 Olympics, it aspires to be a world-class city (for which it has been awarded 2 points [some evidence])
Other (non-Canadian) comparisons are in the lead abound - such as
Other continental comparisons in lead
So, while this is not a continent-wide comparison, it certainly applies to a region spanning nearly half the continent. I cannot help wondering if part of the resistance to this is that it mentions yet another "American" city. -- JimWae ( talk) 01:21, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Doh - my only lame excuse is difficulty finding a link to the (continental) data all in one place.
Shouldn't this article be called Vancouver, B.C. or Vancouver, British Columbia, or Vancouver, Canada or something like that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ethan c.00 ( talk • contribs) 05:19, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
[undent]Good grief, did you really say this with a straight face: The consensus on this issue is with reguard [sic] to this page solely and not the consensus of the most of the world, and a "final" consensus has not yet been reached. Well, I'll tell you what, maybe 50 years from now there's an off-chance that Vancouver, Washington will be better-known than Vancouver BC is and you'd have some context to your claim about global consensus still being pu in the air. All I know is when a movie star or whomever is on Leno or Letterman or Good Morning America and they say they've just come back from Vancouver, or they're filming a movie or doing a show in Vancouver, everybody (including the audiences, not just the host and producer) know where they're talking about. Most Americans identify "Vancouver" with "Vancouver, BC", whether you like it or not. The coneensus has already been made by the American public. And nobody in the UK or Australia or South America has ever heard of Vancouver, Washington, unless they've got family or business there, or have lived there....."Good grief". Give it up, you won't win this..... Skookum1 ( talk) 04:28, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
NOTE: If people feel so passionately about all articles being disambiguation pages and that you're arguing the 'principal' rather than the particular subject (and avoiding bias) this is not your battlefield. Wikipedia has policies: Naming conventions for cities, cities that are established as 'Primary Topics', and individual country naming conventions. Quite simply in regards to those policies, some cities are given the article namespace over disambiguation pages. Vancouver follows these rules along with thousands of other primary topic's taking the corresponding namespace. As such you should try to change the naming conventions, primary topics, and other affected policies. Vancouver and all other cities will change accordingly. If you don't, then it's clear that all these name change requests (the whole 6 we've had over 2 years) are not about the principals they claim to argue but people's bias for their own hometown, and so the thousands of readers aren't asked to accommodate one person (and so they shouldn't). Mkdw talk 10:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thank you all for your input. Here's hoping one day the site would become so useful that it will get included without me having to ask :) Thank you again! BCP
Montreal has one; Toronto has one.
How about a classic pic of Vancouver skyline and Ship in English Bay to illustrate Canada's largest Port under economy section? Love that town. There are many nice ones already on Wikipedia and on Flickr, but nothing that captures a) the skyline; b) ships in English Bay (showing it's function as Canada's busiest port); c) the mountain backdrop. That's how I think of Vancouver. There are pictures of the port, but somehow that doesn't capture it. I guess I'm asking if anyone found one.
Great looking page, btw. -- Soulscanner ( talk) 19:45, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Looks to me like we've been reverting to a bad version for a few days, the reference section had a wee bit of a problem. I've reverted to an unbroken version. Intervening edits were all minor, I'll review and catch things up. Franamax ( talk) 17:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
A user has expressed concern regarding the article's neutrality:
Any edits made to this wikipedia entry by people not logged in to wikipedia is immediately nullified by bots created and made by "ferdinand" who is a bot programmer for the Vancouver Olympic organizing committee. No anonymous person can make edits to this page.
Anyone any edits to t page are immediately flagged and assessed by emplyees of VANOC.
All references to current political issues within the GVRD are immediately removed upon entry to give the stable impression of a docile population. At least 2 people I know have tried to insert the true information that smoking inside is illegal all over vancouver.
Numerous attempts to add current events directly related to the olympics always fail.
If the wikipedia becomes a bot war. what's the point?
If the wikipedia is going to become another sanitized media outlet for cities and countries to put up their media propoganda about themselves, why would anyone trust it?
If people think its a separate issue, then why don't we have a separate page for larger cities that allows for multiple viewpoints of the political/social environment to be represented.
This article reads like a yuppie real estate sales pitch for the GVRD with a sanitized everybody welcome vanoc media press release.
The wikipedia is quickly becoming a tool for suppression of current events.
The above was posted by IP user 24.84.89.108
I was just looking at the introduction to London and then compared it to the introduction for Vancouver. Does anyone else think our intro is obscenely long. It lists every notable thing Vancouver is known for and some records that almost no one else does. London is notable for a huge amount of things and perhaps more numerous records yet their intro is very concise. Would anyone like to work with me on shortening it and moving some of the records to their appropriate sections? Mkdw talk 03:17, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
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Best,
Clayoquot (
talk |
contribs)
06:17, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Best, from me Ricky-Roman, someones keeps changing this back... I don't know why I have to explain this but the nicknames are valid geesh... I am not going to explain them. I guess I will explain the ones that need explaining. Van City is just common knowledge for the nickname of vancouver and its always been there. Go look at the New York City page. And the term Slam City has been associated in pop culture towards vancouver for over a decade... just do a search on google.
Also the picture is absolutey beautiful and I had to go to great lengths to get that picture on the public domain. It seems like there is some sort of jealous revisioning taking place [maybe hate as well]... he says it "not his taste"... man you are not even from Vancouver? And that picture is fuzzy and not even one tenth the beauty of the one that I purchased strictly for the use in wikipedia. Grow up and I am being nice here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricky-Roman ( talk • contribs) 22:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Because I rather like the new picture, and in the spirit of collaboration, would a vote be in order? I think the new picture shows an interesting angle (complete with water and mountains- Vancouver's greatest attributes) and the filtred light quality is very much Vancouver. The previous one could be anywhere. Dionix ( talk) 22:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't think a vote is nesecarry everything is fine now I took out a nickname... becasuse I am guessing that is what caused the problem... to many "city" nicknames as well.. but I have not heard of half the nicknames that new york has. But I am now in agreeeance... Ricky. Again no vote is necessary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricky-Roman ( talk • contribs) 23:10, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment I've had to pull the names again - Ricky, please don't restore them until the discussion is resolved. I'll try to dig up links to the old discussions in the interim. -- Ckatz chat spy 23:48, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Two points:
-- Loodog ( talk) 21:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Did the city subsidize anything over 10 stories? Were cars outlawed?-- Loodog ( talk) 00:01, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, no subsidies and no car restrictions, mostly a matter of smart planning initiatives. But Vancouver always has been more urban than most US cities- perhaps a result of being a city of immigrants more used to urban lifestyles (initially from the UK and Europe, later from Asia). Compare to Seattle, just a couple of hours down the coast: Vancouver seems more vibrant and has a much larger population living in the city centre. By the way, your Canadian examples are misleading. TO and Montreal are also quite urban. In the case of Toronto, the shot is taken from a great distance. Dionix ( talk) 00:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Vancouver's(metro)is only about a 1000 square miles,one of the smallest in North America(for a city this size) i would hazard to guess. Of that 1000 square miles, maybe a third is actually suitable for any buildings at all. Mountains to the North and bog and delta to the south. It's hard to place 2.2 million people in this area with out building up. Even the Suburbs like Burnabyand New Westministerhave a plethora of high rise buildings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.66.73.65 ( talk) 07:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
In regards to this quote from Loodog:
I don't see anything inheritently contradictory here. Liveable, in the context of the article, means that city offers it's citizens convenient access to ammenities, public education, clean air and water, etc. This does not imply a cheap city to live in. To give an analogy, imagine we were talking about cars, and someone mentioned a car was very driveable. That would certaintly not imply that it's a cheap car to drive.
Regardless, I think there should have more community consensus before sticking a contradictions flag on the article. Bosintang ( talk) 08:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the history section says there is still a Coast Salish village near Point Grey. Where is it? -- Ds13 ( talk) 20:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
The section has been added and reverted a number of times. It is currently in - I removed the peacocky language and wikilinked it/added refs for Wold championships to be held in Vancouver. I also moved it to the bottom of the section as it is certainly less important than Vancouver's Olympic bid. There's no reason for it to be reverted to the peacocky passage that the IP editor has been adding. But it really needs some kind of third party citation to assure the notability of the event, a newspaper article or somesuch. Whatever, the constant edit war adding and reverting has to stop. It shoulod be discussed here fully before any more adding or deleting occurs. Mfield ( talk) 04:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Note: Ultimate Frisbee is entirely a recreational pursuit and not a recognized sport with a world sport governing body. It should be placed in a separate section where other recreational pursuits can be included. It's inclusion among the professional spectator sports is frivolous and not warranted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.53.180.156 ( talk) 22:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Just wondering what the rationale is for the new latlong, which is roughly Main and 23rd; understandable that it's roughly the centre of the land area of the city, but isn't it rather a convention in geography - in Wikipedia I'm not sure - to place it in the city core and/or where the numbering system is focussed? In the case of BC highway measurements, I believe that distances from, say, Mission or Abbotsford are reckoned downtown to downtown - to Granville & Georgia or Hastings. Wouldn't that be more appropriate than simply a raw reckoning based on a median/average focual point-latlong? Vancouver especially is very core-oriented; AFAIK the distance from Langley to Vancouver is measrued to the downtown; not the city's boundaries or the "average" central spot. Anyway maybe wiki guidelines specify otherwise; I'm surprised, becasue its' the supplantation of a new paradigm over and in place of existing geographic (and govenrment) convention. Skookum1 ( talk) 21:44, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Here's a better picture for the article http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Vancouver_Image.JPG
I got the Idea from New York City, San Francisco, Chicago, Los Angeles and London
-- King of the Robots ( talk) 19:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Ugly. Change it back to the old one, it showed the city in a much better light. This one makes you have to squint to get the panorama, and includes some not-too-interesting buildings. Vancouver's splendor is its proximity to the forest, mountains, and sea, not its luke-warm postmodern architecture easily found elsewhere.
Jackmont, Sept 9, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.174.77 ( talk) 09:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Someone create a better resolution picture with the same 4 places and mainly Science World in better resolution and I see that one sticking... I tryed to talk to the person who created it but they don't have a talk PAGE... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Vancouver_Image.JPG..
I still think that's a great idea BTW... whoever does it will get my PROPS... anyone good at Photoshoppe :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.86.143.32 ( talk) 21:18, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the twinned cities over to a table format copied from the Calgary article. There's an even better format at Montreal showing coats-of-arms if anyone is interested.
And I've introduced a new concept, Vancouver#Related_Information to emphasize the fact that there's a lot of "stuff" linked down at the bottom of the article, and make it plain in the TOC for the casual reader. This was an idea that User:ArcticGnome brought up here and I think it's worth a shot. Obvious MOS issues but whatever. :) Franamax ( talk) 11:59, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
WP:FLAGS is non-comittal on which flag icon to use for sub-national entities in the UK. Looking for a source though, the City of Vancouver says Edinburgh, Scotland. Thus it seems appropriate to use the Scottish flag (or Scots flag, but I'm pretty sure it's not the Scotch flag :) Franamax ( talk) 18:44, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I sympathize with ThVa's anti-POV/peacockery edits and the placement of various fact templates, although in at least one case "strikign mdoern buildings" to "modenr buildings" removes the point of that sentence; there are few old buildings downtown, the sentence is meant to promo all the big shiny stuff gone up in recent years, but bette wording could be found....However I can answer a bit, if not provide the cite, for the now-fact-templated:
"International student" is a formal category at the universities, not just "students from other countries"; at SFU with a student population of ~25,000, there are only ~1000, maybe ~1500 official "international students". Anybody who's been on either campus for more than an hour knows that a huge amount of students, at SFU perhaps well into the majority, are "from" other countries and/or don't speak English on a daily basis except when required to and may be perceived to be "international students"....but as noted that's an official category, relating to admissions and tuition policies; all the rest are Canadian citizens or official residents, albeit whose primary residence and/or culture/identity is international in nature. This is an unfortunate result of the ways universities keep stats and create categories; the SFU Reports publication soemwhere will have an item in its pages, though they're not online; I'd imagine the same is true of UBC's official publications; but the Ubyssey maybe has an article that gives the figure, or somewhere on UBC's site there may be a mention of the current and historical figures. Skookum1 ( talk) 04:58, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I have found on an official document (bottom of page 1) by the City of Vancouver that Seoul is not a sister city of Vancouver. I have also looked around the City's site and found no mention of Seoul, South Korea being Vancouver's sister city. Also, on the city of Seoul's website, they also do not mention Vancouver as a sister city. So I think Seoul is definitely not Vancouver's sister city. Krazywrath ( talk) 08:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The side bar says the population of the city is 1,578,401 for 2008, but the population growth section says that the population was 578,401 in 2006 and 611,869 in 2007. It seems unlikely that the population increased by exactly one million in two years. -- 68.163.109.25 ( talk) 18:47, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
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This "(pronounced /vænˈkuːvɚ/)" bugs me - I know a bit about IPA and that /væn/ looks decidedly American to me. What's the citation for what's given here? Is this the local pronunciation? The CBC-English pronunciation? Again, that /væn/ just sounds like it has too much twang, a "native Vancouverite" tends to have a "flat a", whatever that symbol is.....not that there's anything such as a "person actually from Vancouver" anymore, and not that there has been. But to me this is reminiscent of "FraZHYer" for "Fraser". Skookum1 ( talk) 16:08, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Many thanks to those who took/added the panoramic pics! The article is beautiful. Very impressive!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Anna Frodesiak ( talk • contribs) February 8, 2009
I added a fact template to this, which apparently comes from one of the sources (but it's wrong):
Actually, the construction of the West End high rises reduced the overall West End population and its density; sites that had once held multiple-apartment houses covering nearly the whole lot were replaced with towers of single-occupancy suites with dedicated open space around the tower. I'm pretty sure this is somewhere in Peter McDonald's Historical Atlas of Vancouver or whatever it's called, and I think it's in Chuck Davis' Vancouver Book also, and gets mentioned in newspaper columns from time to time; Downtown South/Yaletown is a different matter and taht area was never heavily populated until the modern era. As for those 1950s and '60s constructions being made for cycling and public transit, that's laughable; the older era was indeed bicycle-devoted (the first pavement in British Columbia was for the Stanley Park Ring Road - now Park Drive - in the early 1890s, for bicycles) but planning priorities in the '50s and '60s were anything but oriented towards bicycles and transit; anti-transit is more like it, which is why the plethora of parking garages which now occupy the space bounded by Burrard-Melville-Pender-Bute (once a high-density housing area). And it's not like the West End has good transit either. Anyone here had to wait for a Robson bus or a Davie, or had to endure the ride? The old trolleys were ripped up in the 1950s, as part of teh same planning priorities. As I've often quipped, "it would help if those who want to rewrite history would read some first". Skookum1 ( talk) 21:24, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Considering that there are two medium-sized cities in the Pacific Northwest of North America with the name Vancouver, it's awfully confusing and strange to have this page direct searches for "Vancouver" to Vancouver, BC. How would one go about changing that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 01:19, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Most people around the world don't "think" about Vancouver, period. Neither the Canadian nor the American city is a London, Tokyo, or New York. To those who think about it the most--that is, those living in the Pacific Northwest--the confusion over the two names is significant, and often requires clarification.
Furthermore, Portland, OR is a much larger city than Portland, ME (about 10x larger); while Vancouver, BC is only about 4X larger than Vancouver, WA. And they're both in the same region, which adds to further confusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 02:01, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Yet, typing Portland into wikipedia takes you to a disambiguation. No doubt most people typing Portland are looking for the larger, Oregon city, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't go to a disambiguation when you have two cities with populations in the six figures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 02:03, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Uh, no they don't; not necessarily. Maybe in the circles in which you run. Most people in the Portland metro area (the Pac NW's third largest metro area) are likely to think of Vancouver, WA, depending on the context. In Seattle (the largest metro area in the Pac NW), there is confusion as well, as Seattle is roughly equidistant between the two Vancouvers. People in Seattle are known to clarify the Vancouver to which they refer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 02:19, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Umm, who is making personal attack statements or being uncivil? I would be curious if you could quote anything written in this section that qualifies as either.
To the point, many US cities include the name of the state in which they are located because there is some confusion as to which place one is referring. So for cities such as Chicago or Seattle, where there are no others with that name, simply typing the name alone is sufficient. For cities like Portland or Vancouver, where there is more than one fairly large and/or noteworthy place with those names, it is necessary to add the state or country for clarification.
Having the Olympics is great, and if someone in Seattle, or Portland, or Bellingham says "I'm going to the Olympics in Vancouver!" it will be clear from the context which city they mean. If someone in one of those places says, however, I have a business trip in Vancouver this weekend, it will not be clear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 04:44, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
I have never heard anyone refer to Vancouver, Washington without specifically saying they're talking about the American city. I hear people refer to Vancouver, BC without specifying all the time. From my point of view, the default Vancouver is certainly Vancouver, BC. Of course I live in Canada... I am not sure if there are "Wikipedia style guidelines" that cover this topic, but perhaps someone could check? Perhaps the default should be Metro Vancouver... TastyCakes ( talk) 06:08, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
There's no question that, as the larger city, Vancouver, BC, is the primary usage of Vancouver, but it is still ambiguous. Many newspapers in major cities specify BC to clarify that issue, and I don't see why Wikipedia should be any different.
For example:
Here's an article from the Oregonian (Portland): http://www.oregonlive.com/travel/index.ssf/2009/01/vancouver_bc_dayandnight_delig.html
Here's from the Anchorage Daily News: http://www.adn.com/money/story/674122.html
LA Times article: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/02/stop-the-presse.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 08:12, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Latecomer to the discussion, but I just want to say one thing: in exactly two US states, the name is ambiguous enough that you virtually always have to specify which one you mean. In the entire rest of the world outside of those two states, the name "Vancouver" without a state or province after it is always taken to mean the Canadian one. The end result is that the one in Washington can almost never be referred to as just "Vancouver" without a state name after it, because even in the small region where it is a prominent and well-known topic in its own right it still has to be disambiguated from the other one, whereas the Canadian one can be referred to as "Vancouver" without a province name in about 99 per cent of the entire world. That's what makes the Canadian one a primary topic.
And furthermore, to those who are claiming that there isn't a large population disparity between the two cities, keep in mind that the comparison isn't between a city of 150,000 people and one of 500,000 people — the 500K one is the central hub and namesake of a metropolitan area of over two million people, while the 150K city is a suburb of a metropolitan area which is named for a different city in the area. So the comparison is between 150K and two million, not 150K and 500K. Bearcat ( talk) 20:18, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
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The issue regarding Vancouver's name space landing on the Canadian city versus a disambiguation page due to its shared name with the United States city Vancouver, Washington arises frequently. In this page is a summary and collection of arguments, facts, and details surrounding the circumstances of "why Vancouver is not a disambiguation page".
The canonical form for cities in the United States is [[City, State]] (the "comma convention"). Those cities that need additional disambiguation include their county or parish (for example Elgin, Lancaster County, South Carolina and Elgin, Kershaw County, South Carolina). If more than one city, town, or census-designated place within the same county has the same name, specify the type of local government unit in parentheses before the comma (e.g., Poughkeepsie (city), New York and Poughkeepsie (town), New York, but not "Poughkeepsie, New York (city)"). Three unincorporated communities bear two states' names due to their peculiar locations across a state line: Glenrio, New Mexico and Texas, Freedom, Idaho and Wyoming, and Ray, Indiana and Michigan.
Cities listed in the AP Stylebook as not requiring the state modifier may have their articles named [[City]] provided they are the primary topic for that name. The cities listed by the AP are Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Honolulu, Houston, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, New Orleans, New York City, Oklahoma City, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle and Washington. [1] No other American city may have its article named [[City]]. Proposals to move any of the above-listed cities are initiated per the instructions at Wikipedia:Requested moves, and should be announced on the talk page of these guidelines.
A United States city's article should never be titled "city, country" (e.g., "Detroit, United States") or "city, state, country" (e.g., "Kansas City, Missouri, USA").
For cities which do not qualify for undisambiguated titles, the correct title format is [[City, Province/Territory]] (the "comma convention"). For the territories, please note that the correct forms are "City, Yukon" (not "City, Yukon Territory") and "City, Nunavut" (not "City, Nunavut Territory"), but "City, Northwest Territories". For the easternmost province, the proper form is "City, Newfoundland and Labrador". Localities that need further disambiguation beyond the province or territory include their county, municipality or parish. (e.g. Armstrong, Thunder Bay District, Ontario, due to the need to disambiguate it from the Armstrong, Ontario in Timiskaming District — as the one in Timiskaming is an incorporated municipality, it gets title precedence.)
A Canadian city's article, however, should never be titled simply "city, Canada" (e.g "Halifax, Canada"), although it is permissible to create a title of this type as a redirect to the properly titled article. Similarly, a title that uses the province's two-letter postal abbreviation should never be the primary article title, although creating a redirect is permitted. You may also create redirects from documentably common misspellings such as "Winnepeg", "Ottowa", "St. Catherine's" or "Iqualuit", although it is not necessary to anticipate every conceivable misspelling that could possibly arise.
Dedicated city categories should always be named with the same title format as the city's main article. That is, if the article is at Toronto, then use "Toronto" rather than "Toronto, Ontario" in category names, but if it's at Regina, Saskatchewan, then name the related categories in the format "Regina, Saskatchewan" rather than "Regina".
A former geographic name, such as Berlin, Ontario, Fraserville, Quebec, Bytown or York, Upper Canada, should only have a separate article if there's something substantial that can be written about the history of that name — otherwise it should exist only as a redirect to the place's current name.
See also Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board/Cities, an ongoing project to review which Canadian cities are likely or unlikely to qualify for page moves.
In 2006 the United States editors agreed to partially adopt the Geographic Naming Convention and many parts of the International Naming Convention. This initial discussion can be found here. Follow up and the implementation as well as the additional and final details can be found on the archive pages of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (settlements) and Wikipedia:Naming conventions.
In summary this allowed certain cities like San Diego, Los Angeles, and Boston (to name a few) to exclude the formula <city>, <state> and replace it with <city>, in the AP Stylebook format, if the place was the Primary topic. Canadian editors had already been using the International Naming Convention and had allowed the exclusion of having the province of Canada in the name of a city that was the 'Primary topic'.
Past dispute, on whether Vancouver should link to a disambiguation page or land on the Canadian city, has not been about the ease to the most number of editors, or the fact that the naming conventions exist, but rather if Vancouver (British Columbia) is notable enough to be a primary topic over Vancouver, Washington. What is certain is that this has been the subject of somewhat heated debate over years and will likely continue to do so in the future. Personal loyalty, bias, and overall pride for one's city has clouded the true objective of this Wikipedia -- creating a free encyclopedia. Accessibility is only a small part in the large picture.
In January 2009, the article Vancouver (referring to Vancouver, British Columbia) was visited 136,415 times (an average of 4,400 hits per day) [2], ranking it 968 most visited. [2] The article was visited a total of 1,269,997 times in 2008. [3] Comparatively, the article Vancouver, Washington was visited 11,023 times (an average of 355 hits per day). [4] The article was visited a total of 121,106 times in 2008. [5] Factoring in the mishits (hits to the article that were intended for other Vancouver-related articles such as Vancouver, Washington or Vancouver Island) the numbers intended for Vancouver, British Columbia are still significantly greater than even the sum of all the articles that share the name and/or content involving the keyword "Vancouver". It was also noted that the redirect Vancouver, British Columbia was visited 8,203 times (an average of 264 hits per day) [6] further contributing to the argument of most easy accessibility to Wikipedians.
Additionally, what links here reports a little under 1,000 English Wikipedia page links to Vancouver, Washington. [7] These include talk pages, templates, signatures, user boxes, redirects, and more. Articles about regions in and around Washington state and articles about US naval ships were among the highest in appearance (just over 50%). The article Vancouver has over 8,500 page links. [8] Sports, biographies, and events were among the highest in appearance (just over 18%). Again the links intended for other Vancouver-related articles that were mistakenly linked were considered, and the article Vancouver, British Columbia with a little under 3,500 links [9] was used as the offset factor.
Vancouver (British Columbia) was the host city for Expo 86, the 2010 Winter Olympics, and 2010 Winter Paralympics. In January 2009, the article 2010 Winter Olympics was visited 44,861 times (an average of 1,447 hits per day). [10] While the 2008 Summer Olympics were unprecedented, the article was visited 4,519,081 times in August, 2008 (an average of 150,636 times per day). [11] The article Beijing in the same month was visited 688,198 times (an average of 22,199 times per day). [12] The expectations of the increasing popularity of Wikipedia as a research tool coupled with the popularity of the Olympics gave for strong support to not have Vancouver as a disambiguation page. [13]
Facts about Vancouver: (as found on the WikiProject Vancouver)
No WikiProject for
Vancouver, Washington nor mention of it on the
WikiProject Washington exists, though information about the city was readily available on the article itself. The city distinguishes itself with a population of 162,400. It seems to have had a rich history and association with the military (especially the navy) due to the number of articles about US naval ships that link to the main article. Possibly inaccurate, a resident of
Vancouver, Washington described it on a major discussion as a suburb city to
Portland, Oregon. Much like
Richmond, British Columbia is to
Metro Vancouver.
An unofficial vote closed by User:Tariqabjotu was done on the Talk:Vancouver (disambiguation). The vote ended on August, 27, 2006 resulting in a 20 - 1 decision not to request a move. A link to notify editors was placed on the Canadian Wikipedians' notice board (the Canadian focal point for all naming convention conflicts and implementation) as well as Wikipedia Naming Conventions (the United States and main Wikipedia focal point for all naming conventions, conflicts, and implementation).
A second vote, supervised by Wikipedia Administrator User:JHunterJ, 3 years later, and the most recent was taken at Wikipedia_talk:Disambiguation/Archive_28#Vancouver_versus_Vancouver.2C_Washington. Messages were posted to members of the following to participate.
The voted ended on February 10, 2009 resulting in a 20 - 1 decision not to move the article Vancouver to Vancouver, British Columbia (or another name) and make Vancouver a disambiguation page.
A google test based upon link usage has Vancouver (British Columbia) listed on the top 11 search results. The 12th spot is the City of Vancouver, Washington, and then the next 20 results are Vancouver, BC related. [14] While Google tests cannot be definitive and generally not solely used to decide WP:N especially on WP:AfD, it is commonly used as an argumentative point.
Welcome to Wikipedia Bureaucracy. As a resident of Vancouver, Canada, I of course have my own biases and this essay is far from perfect. I simply did the best I could to logically rationalize, support, and present my argument in a way that not only reflects what the rest of Wikipedia is doing, that we're following convention, but also by readership accessibility.
I was discussing the pros and cons with a fellow editor about why disambiguation pages exist and for the sheer consistency and fairness make every shared name link first to a disambiguation page. After all, not everyone wants to go to just one article. Then came the analogies. On a dusty road a pedestrian can cross it whenever they like. Some more busy streets have pedestrian controlled crosswalks. The number of cars moving down the street might significantly outnumber the pedestrian wanting to cross the road but at some point they need to cross, so we accommodate them (insert one disambiguation page). Perhaps its an intersection with 2 busy roads and many pedestrians, the majority of them all moving in one direction, but we have lights. Now imagine a highway. An overhead walkway is more inconvenient, but it defeats the purpose of having a highway if you put stops in every step of the way. In the end it works out for some greater good.
The fact is this is the way we all live our lives in this society of ours. There are fast lanes, and slower traffic keeps right. Highways and walkways, lineups and NEXUS card lineups. All for the purpose of making our travels that much more quick. We have naturally brought that chaotic organization with us to Wikipedia. Not everyone wins, but no one really loses. The entire internet has been based upon clicking links. The average number of times a person clicks is between 450 - 1,500 in a day [15] -- what is 1 more?
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Thanks Mkdw for making the effort to summarize this! Perhaps this should be copied onto an FAQ sub-page, so it's easy to point to when this comes up again four months from now, just like clockwork. Franamax ( talk) 19:05, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm conducting a new survey since the last was done 3 years ago (an editors lifetime on Wikipedia) at 2009 Vancouver Vs. Vancouver, Washington Survey. Your input would be most appreciated. Mkdw talk 21:25, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Why does Vancouver have this nickname? There's no mention of it in the article. Where does it come from? What is it referring to? OlEnglish ( talk) 02:38, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
The article says:
"While the number of cars in Vancouver proper has been steadily rising with population growth, the rate of car ownership and the average distance driven by daily commuters have fallen since the early 1990s.[63][64] Vancouver is the only major Canadian city with these trends."
Is that true? Because I read somewhere quite recently that although Calgary's downtown working population has increased dramatically, parking spots have not risen nearly as fast and much greater use of public transportation (the
C-Train especially) has resulted. Now rate of car ownership may not be down in Calgary, but I think % of commuters that take public transport must be, so I'm skeptical about the Vancouver claim. Further, even if it is true, monitoring it to make sure it remains true, and continuing to judge what classifies as a "major Canadian city" seems to warrant changing the language if nothing else.
TastyCakes (
talk)
18:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be disagreement about the population of Vancouver and Metro Vancouver. Please stop using the info box as a discussion (it makes the article look messy) and talk about it here. A decision should be made whether we will continue use of the 2006 census for the official population details or use current estimates. Also please avoid including red links as well as extending the length of the introduction. Any adjustments should be made to the proper demographics section or info box, or simply updating already existing numerical figures. (this comment was intended for more than one editor) Mkdw talk 17:25, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
I do not have an issue with which stats are used as long as they are consistent and accurate. The Lower Mainland is consalidation of the Greater Vancouver Refional District and the Fraser Valley Regional District. While "Metro Vancouver" is just the name of the governmental body which manages the GVRD. The statistics being posted on the Vancouver page do not accurately represent the geographic areas, even using the 2006 raw data. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Scrillamunsta (
talk •
contribs)
16:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
Hello! I am from Taiwan. My friend tell me there is two Vancouver. Is there Vancouver in Canada also? If there is two Vancouver why do they have same name? It is confusion. Thank you your advice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.228.79.152 ( talk) 14:18, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Population in the infobox is messed up. The pic of totem pole and mountains in the background don't look familiar, and other recent edits by IP 24.something-or-other don't look right.-- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 05:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I am curious as to why they do not look right, as well the population has not been tampered with... all that there has been done is moving and changing of images... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.138.107 ( talk) 17:48, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
-- File:Totem poles.jpg and why cant Vancouver show off some of its palm trees as they are somewhat unique to Canada? File:Vancouverpalms.jpg, """"So are teh monkey puzzles and the huge rhodos; between the palm trees and "censoring rain" you're engaging in the wannabe-California syndrome. "Denial", that is. That totem pole, and the one behind it - that's definitely the collection at Brockton Point; that pole is Kwakwaka'wakw, the one behind it is Tlingit; beyind the tour bus (fake trolley) in the background is the bulk feeder at Neptune Terminals on the North Shore, tha'ts definitely Vancouver at its kitschiest Skookum1 ( talk) 00:15, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
also I had originally removed File:Stanley Park 1999 Rain.jpg because of the fact that Vancouver is relatively dry in the summer time, so I thought the dry and sunny palm trees would help better represent Vancouver's summer time, however I do not currently live in Vancouver so I could be wrong and Anna Frodesiak could be more correct on this one???
-- I agree i like this picture http://www.whale-images.com/data/media/2/crw_1505.jpg, but tell me this, why does Toronto receive more precipitation then Vancouver, yet it doesn't show off its summer time as rainy, I just thought its misleading and Vancouver's summers would be better represented with a nice dry sunny day picture, with the palm trees being more of a bonus than anything.
both File:Vancouverpalms.jpg and http://www.whale-images.com/data/media/2/crw_1505.jpg would work well together in my opinion.
- also i think the File:Totem poles.jpg add a nice touch to the sister cities section? yes no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.138.107 ( talk) 20:42, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
-the only thing that was not relevant with the pictures was the totem poles, which like you said do deserve to be in there, as for the palm trees why does it make it not right to include palm trees just because seattle or portland do not have palm trees... how does this make sense? Also, it does seem fairly obvious that Vancouver receives less precipitation then Toronto IN THE SUMMER TIME... check environment Canada's website, please. All I hear is rubbish—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.138.107 ( talk) 10:52, 4 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.81.204 ( talk)
Palm trees and totem poles aside, the metro population currently displays a link (a dead link, that is). If someone has a RS, the infobox would look better with an actual number. APK thinks he's ready for his closeup 16:02, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the population figure, just so everybody knows...because of the infobox's actual coding syntax, it will display a long string of gibberish if you insert the StatsCan reference directly after the number in the same entry field. The citation for population figures needs to be added to the separate field for "population_footnotes", not directly next to the number itself. Bearcat ( talk) 23:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Because of the muddying of waters caused by the transformation of the GVRD into "Metro", as the Vancouver press is now styling The Regional District Now Known as Vancouver, the infobox population field usage, "Metro", meaning metroplitan region, apposite to "urban", here meaning Metro-Vancouver-the-regional-district, there's got to be a footnote placed on the field-names to explain what they refer to, as it is not clear at all. I see in a later instance that Metro is defined as GVRD + FVRD, and while that's certainly the Lower Mainland (though including minor non-Lower Mainland locations like Boston Bar and Spuzzum), it's still quesitonable of Chilliwack is part of the metropoiltan area; and if it is, then so is Squamish and, really, also Whistler. What is teh actual metropoiltan area population is thus OR to work out, as StstsCan has opeted to create its own definition based on RD boundaries but othe than that technicality, the instances in the infobox are not in teh same frame of reference as what "urban" means in the Lower Mainland vs. "rural". Counting the rural population of the GVRD, and the urban population of the FVRD, is really the relevant term, and using "metro" as a rough synonym for the Lower Mainland doesn't wash, both for the RD-name reason as well as that much of the Loewr Mainland is neither urban nor "metro" (small-case m). Anyway I don't know how to annotate the infobox, or maybe it's just too late at night to sort it out. The fields as named are confusing in the local context, they need explanation/context. Skookum1 ( talk) 07:01, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
On a similar tack, the postal codes shown are City of Vancouver only; those for the GVRD/Metro should be shown as well, in a separate field, and those form the FVRD not (some overlap - Ruskin's rural route is VOM IRO and straddles the Maple Ridge-Mission boundary. But since the infobox clearly covers more than just CoV, it can't just do it for population.... Skookum1 ( talk) 07:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
OK, now I see that article is sprot'ed, which always bugs me a bit. Major articles undergo regular little vandalism chips (which we revert in common course), this one has now gotten to the stage of "excessive vandalism". Although it pains me to respond to undiscussed and repeated IP edits, one sort stands out:
As a relatively new resident of the Canadian west coast, can someone explain to me how the Vancouver/Lower Mainland area became part of the " Pacific Northwest"? Isn't Vancouver part of the "Pacific Southwest" in terms of Canada?
My only understanding of this is from geography class in high school long ago, where I came to understand that the "north" component of the moniker was in relation to US territorial boundaries, the "west" component was "past the Mississippi" and the "Pacific" part was "over the last mountains but before the ocean". Only the last definition applies in the case of the Vancouver/Lower Mainland region. One common definition of course is "where it rains all the time but hardly ever snows" - but I don't see that as a primary definition in the Pacific Northwest article.
So anyway, I'm curious as to the process where Vancouver has come to be defined as part of the "Pacific Northwest" and I'm happy to be enlightened. There is also the notion of Cascadia as a competing or maybe complementary concept. But I don't see primary notability there either. Any help? Franamax ( talk) 03:54, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}}
Please, would someone with authority change a URL on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver#References
Line item # 85: Real Estate Price Charts Blog, http://www.canadian-housing-price-charts.235.ca/charts.htm
...to the new (shorter) URL: http://www.chpc.biz/
If the old (longer) URL is on other Wikipedia reference pages, could it be changed as well?
Thanks in advance, W235813 ( talk) 18:32, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Not done: Sorry, someone dropped the reference.
Celestra (
talk)
02:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the note Celestra. Is it possible to get the link www.chpc.biz placed back into the reference list? I am the author of that site, and each month I update and publish 7 charts that plot the housing prices of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal, as well as a feature chart on Vancouver's prices for Single Family Dwellings, Townhouses and Condominiums. According to my server trafic stats, some +/-10,000 unique visitors come to the site each month to view the monthly updates. Cheers, W235813 ( talk) 07:44, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
It has been brought to my attention that these new photos being added by User:Guyfrombronx are not originals, where the uploader is solely the copyright holder, but rather have been taken from Flickr. It is unclear if this editor has received permission from the various photographers to use these images. I am especially concerned since these photos are not all from the same source, but a variety of flickr users. Under these circumstances, I believe that WP:COPYRIGHT must be confidently satisfied for these changes to be made to a featured article. Furthermore, attention to the Vancouver article has skyrocketed with the Olympics fast approaching and I would like to make sure it's in presentable shape and we not embarrass ourselves by stealing work and perpetuating a negative view of Wikipedia work that has been identified as "the best Wikipedia has to offer". Mkdw talk 07:02, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
There has been a concern regarding the photos User:Guyfrombronx has uploaded and inserted into Canadian articles. A number of fellow editors have found that Guyfrombronx has not obtained or failed to properly show the licensing required to use these images on Wikipedia or the Commons. The photos are primarily from Flickr.com and from several photographers. We also have not been able to determine if all the photos are from Flickr and could be from other sources. Due to these facts we are inclined to believe that he has obtained these images illegally and have removed them from Wikipedia articles as per WP:COPYRIGHT. Until we have confirmation that such permission to use these photos under a Common license has been granted by each photographer we will continue to remove the images. Attempts have been made to contact Guyfrombronx, and it appears they have been unsuccessful. Mkdw talk 21:38, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I was just thinking why does the Metro pop. use the Lower Mainland since Abbotsford id it's own metro area which includes Mission and also the pop. I found out that the metro pop for Vancouver is the same of the Metro Vancouver Regional District. RebaFan1996 ( talk) 01:55, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi, is there any consensus to add a link to http://www.discovervancouver.com/ to the external links section of this article? Do you feel it merits inclusion given our guidelines at Wikipedia:External links? I do not have an opinion on this link, but rather following up after blocking Dvancouver ( talk · contribs) for COI / spam of this link. Thanks/ wangi ( talk) 17:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Discover Vancouver has in the past been heavily criticised for allowing the basest sort of racist postings on it's forum, even today some of that nauseating race baiting continues.IMO they are to be avoided.
I'm going to be honest here. I've been a regular at DV for a few years and I think it's a great forum. We get people from all over the world coming to this forum and the majority of the people are good people. There are people from across Canada and the United states, even people from Europe and Asia making regular appearances. Sure there are a couple of jerks (especially the ones who are making comments about disgusting crap and racism...HI Ace!) There has been some troubles with racism, mostly from teenagers who think it's really funny to make bad comments from the safety of their computers.
DV has changed a lot over the years. The main problem is a lot of the old troublemakers didn't like the new rules implemented into the system. Since then we've had a lot of trouble with spammers, post bombers, etc. but the mods have done a great job cleaning everything up. I think DV could really benefit from being posted on Wiki.
I disagree. There's a lot more to DV than the forum. It's an entire website with a lot of good information aimed at tourists. I have nothing to gain by having DV on Wiki (I'm not an owner) but I would love to see it a part of Wiki.
So skookum, why do you keep removing any post that isn't negative? I took the time to support DV as a useful site only to have it removed? How about I delete your comments and see how you like it.
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Finally we have an edit summary from the IP user who kept deleting comparisons to other cities on the continent, such as
While I agree Canadian comparisons should come first, Vancouverites are acutely aware of their coastal location, their distance from the other major metro areas of Canada, and the nearness of the border & Seattle. Many people, Vancouverites & others, may be surprised to learn just what a footprint Vancouver leaves on the continent, and if asked to name the top 2 most populous metros north of San Francisco & west of Chicago, would soon stumble. Vancouver is not just a Canadian city, and especially evident with the 2010 Olympics, it aspires to be a world-class city (for which it has been awarded 2 points [some evidence])
Other (non-Canadian) comparisons are in the lead abound - such as
Other continental comparisons in lead
So, while this is not a continent-wide comparison, it certainly applies to a region spanning nearly half the continent. I cannot help wondering if part of the resistance to this is that it mentions yet another "American" city. -- JimWae ( talk) 01:21, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Doh - my only lame excuse is difficulty finding a link to the (continental) data all in one place.
Shouldn't this article be called Vancouver, B.C. or Vancouver, British Columbia, or Vancouver, Canada or something like that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ethan c.00 ( talk • contribs) 05:19, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
[undent]Good grief, did you really say this with a straight face: The consensus on this issue is with reguard [sic] to this page solely and not the consensus of the most of the world, and a "final" consensus has not yet been reached. Well, I'll tell you what, maybe 50 years from now there's an off-chance that Vancouver, Washington will be better-known than Vancouver BC is and you'd have some context to your claim about global consensus still being pu in the air. All I know is when a movie star or whomever is on Leno or Letterman or Good Morning America and they say they've just come back from Vancouver, or they're filming a movie or doing a show in Vancouver, everybody (including the audiences, not just the host and producer) know where they're talking about. Most Americans identify "Vancouver" with "Vancouver, BC", whether you like it or not. The coneensus has already been made by the American public. And nobody in the UK or Australia or South America has ever heard of Vancouver, Washington, unless they've got family or business there, or have lived there....."Good grief". Give it up, you won't win this..... Skookum1 ( talk) 04:28, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
NOTE: If people feel so passionately about all articles being disambiguation pages and that you're arguing the 'principal' rather than the particular subject (and avoiding bias) this is not your battlefield. Wikipedia has policies: Naming conventions for cities, cities that are established as 'Primary Topics', and individual country naming conventions. Quite simply in regards to those policies, some cities are given the article namespace over disambiguation pages. Vancouver follows these rules along with thousands of other primary topic's taking the corresponding namespace. As such you should try to change the naming conventions, primary topics, and other affected policies. Vancouver and all other cities will change accordingly. If you don't, then it's clear that all these name change requests (the whole 6 we've had over 2 years) are not about the principals they claim to argue but people's bias for their own hometown, and so the thousands of readers aren't asked to accommodate one person (and so they shouldn't). Mkdw talk 10:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thank you all for your input. Here's hoping one day the site would become so useful that it will get included without me having to ask :) Thank you again! BCP
Montreal has one; Toronto has one.
How about a classic pic of Vancouver skyline and Ship in English Bay to illustrate Canada's largest Port under economy section? Love that town. There are many nice ones already on Wikipedia and on Flickr, but nothing that captures a) the skyline; b) ships in English Bay (showing it's function as Canada's busiest port); c) the mountain backdrop. That's how I think of Vancouver. There are pictures of the port, but somehow that doesn't capture it. I guess I'm asking if anyone found one.
Great looking page, btw. -- Soulscanner ( talk) 19:45, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Looks to me like we've been reverting to a bad version for a few days, the reference section had a wee bit of a problem. I've reverted to an unbroken version. Intervening edits were all minor, I'll review and catch things up. Franamax ( talk) 17:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
A user has expressed concern regarding the article's neutrality:
Any edits made to this wikipedia entry by people not logged in to wikipedia is immediately nullified by bots created and made by "ferdinand" who is a bot programmer for the Vancouver Olympic organizing committee. No anonymous person can make edits to this page.
Anyone any edits to t page are immediately flagged and assessed by emplyees of VANOC.
All references to current political issues within the GVRD are immediately removed upon entry to give the stable impression of a docile population. At least 2 people I know have tried to insert the true information that smoking inside is illegal all over vancouver.
Numerous attempts to add current events directly related to the olympics always fail.
If the wikipedia becomes a bot war. what's the point?
If the wikipedia is going to become another sanitized media outlet for cities and countries to put up their media propoganda about themselves, why would anyone trust it?
If people think its a separate issue, then why don't we have a separate page for larger cities that allows for multiple viewpoints of the political/social environment to be represented.
This article reads like a yuppie real estate sales pitch for the GVRD with a sanitized everybody welcome vanoc media press release.
The wikipedia is quickly becoming a tool for suppression of current events.
The above was posted by IP user 24.84.89.108
I was just looking at the introduction to London and then compared it to the introduction for Vancouver. Does anyone else think our intro is obscenely long. It lists every notable thing Vancouver is known for and some records that almost no one else does. London is notable for a huge amount of things and perhaps more numerous records yet their intro is very concise. Would anyone like to work with me on shortening it and moving some of the records to their appropriate sections? Mkdw talk 03:17, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
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Best,
Clayoquot (
talk |
contribs)
06:17, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Best, from me Ricky-Roman, someones keeps changing this back... I don't know why I have to explain this but the nicknames are valid geesh... I am not going to explain them. I guess I will explain the ones that need explaining. Van City is just common knowledge for the nickname of vancouver and its always been there. Go look at the New York City page. And the term Slam City has been associated in pop culture towards vancouver for over a decade... just do a search on google.
Also the picture is absolutey beautiful and I had to go to great lengths to get that picture on the public domain. It seems like there is some sort of jealous revisioning taking place [maybe hate as well]... he says it "not his taste"... man you are not even from Vancouver? And that picture is fuzzy and not even one tenth the beauty of the one that I purchased strictly for the use in wikipedia. Grow up and I am being nice here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricky-Roman ( talk • contribs) 22:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Because I rather like the new picture, and in the spirit of collaboration, would a vote be in order? I think the new picture shows an interesting angle (complete with water and mountains- Vancouver's greatest attributes) and the filtred light quality is very much Vancouver. The previous one could be anywhere. Dionix ( talk) 22:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't think a vote is nesecarry everything is fine now I took out a nickname... becasuse I am guessing that is what caused the problem... to many "city" nicknames as well.. but I have not heard of half the nicknames that new york has. But I am now in agreeeance... Ricky. Again no vote is necessary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricky-Roman ( talk • contribs) 23:10, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment I've had to pull the names again - Ricky, please don't restore them until the discussion is resolved. I'll try to dig up links to the old discussions in the interim. -- Ckatz chat spy 23:48, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Two points:
-- Loodog ( talk) 21:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Did the city subsidize anything over 10 stories? Were cars outlawed?-- Loodog ( talk) 00:01, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, no subsidies and no car restrictions, mostly a matter of smart planning initiatives. But Vancouver always has been more urban than most US cities- perhaps a result of being a city of immigrants more used to urban lifestyles (initially from the UK and Europe, later from Asia). Compare to Seattle, just a couple of hours down the coast: Vancouver seems more vibrant and has a much larger population living in the city centre. By the way, your Canadian examples are misleading. TO and Montreal are also quite urban. In the case of Toronto, the shot is taken from a great distance. Dionix ( talk) 00:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Vancouver's(metro)is only about a 1000 square miles,one of the smallest in North America(for a city this size) i would hazard to guess. Of that 1000 square miles, maybe a third is actually suitable for any buildings at all. Mountains to the North and bog and delta to the south. It's hard to place 2.2 million people in this area with out building up. Even the Suburbs like Burnabyand New Westministerhave a plethora of high rise buildings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.66.73.65 ( talk) 07:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
In regards to this quote from Loodog:
I don't see anything inheritently contradictory here. Liveable, in the context of the article, means that city offers it's citizens convenient access to ammenities, public education, clean air and water, etc. This does not imply a cheap city to live in. To give an analogy, imagine we were talking about cars, and someone mentioned a car was very driveable. That would certaintly not imply that it's a cheap car to drive.
Regardless, I think there should have more community consensus before sticking a contradictions flag on the article. Bosintang ( talk) 08:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the history section says there is still a Coast Salish village near Point Grey. Where is it? -- Ds13 ( talk) 20:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
The section has been added and reverted a number of times. It is currently in - I removed the peacocky language and wikilinked it/added refs for Wold championships to be held in Vancouver. I also moved it to the bottom of the section as it is certainly less important than Vancouver's Olympic bid. There's no reason for it to be reverted to the peacocky passage that the IP editor has been adding. But it really needs some kind of third party citation to assure the notability of the event, a newspaper article or somesuch. Whatever, the constant edit war adding and reverting has to stop. It shoulod be discussed here fully before any more adding or deleting occurs. Mfield ( talk) 04:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Note: Ultimate Frisbee is entirely a recreational pursuit and not a recognized sport with a world sport governing body. It should be placed in a separate section where other recreational pursuits can be included. It's inclusion among the professional spectator sports is frivolous and not warranted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.53.180.156 ( talk) 22:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Just wondering what the rationale is for the new latlong, which is roughly Main and 23rd; understandable that it's roughly the centre of the land area of the city, but isn't it rather a convention in geography - in Wikipedia I'm not sure - to place it in the city core and/or where the numbering system is focussed? In the case of BC highway measurements, I believe that distances from, say, Mission or Abbotsford are reckoned downtown to downtown - to Granville & Georgia or Hastings. Wouldn't that be more appropriate than simply a raw reckoning based on a median/average focual point-latlong? Vancouver especially is very core-oriented; AFAIK the distance from Langley to Vancouver is measrued to the downtown; not the city's boundaries or the "average" central spot. Anyway maybe wiki guidelines specify otherwise; I'm surprised, becasue its' the supplantation of a new paradigm over and in place of existing geographic (and govenrment) convention. Skookum1 ( talk) 21:44, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Here's a better picture for the article http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Vancouver_Image.JPG
I got the Idea from New York City, San Francisco, Chicago, Los Angeles and London
-- King of the Robots ( talk) 19:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Ugly. Change it back to the old one, it showed the city in a much better light. This one makes you have to squint to get the panorama, and includes some not-too-interesting buildings. Vancouver's splendor is its proximity to the forest, mountains, and sea, not its luke-warm postmodern architecture easily found elsewhere.
Jackmont, Sept 9, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.174.77 ( talk) 09:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Someone create a better resolution picture with the same 4 places and mainly Science World in better resolution and I see that one sticking... I tryed to talk to the person who created it but they don't have a talk PAGE... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Vancouver_Image.JPG..
I still think that's a great idea BTW... whoever does it will get my PROPS... anyone good at Photoshoppe :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.86.143.32 ( talk) 21:18, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the twinned cities over to a table format copied from the Calgary article. There's an even better format at Montreal showing coats-of-arms if anyone is interested.
And I've introduced a new concept, Vancouver#Related_Information to emphasize the fact that there's a lot of "stuff" linked down at the bottom of the article, and make it plain in the TOC for the casual reader. This was an idea that User:ArcticGnome brought up here and I think it's worth a shot. Obvious MOS issues but whatever. :) Franamax ( talk) 11:59, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
WP:FLAGS is non-comittal on which flag icon to use for sub-national entities in the UK. Looking for a source though, the City of Vancouver says Edinburgh, Scotland. Thus it seems appropriate to use the Scottish flag (or Scots flag, but I'm pretty sure it's not the Scotch flag :) Franamax ( talk) 18:44, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I sympathize with ThVa's anti-POV/peacockery edits and the placement of various fact templates, although in at least one case "strikign mdoern buildings" to "modenr buildings" removes the point of that sentence; there are few old buildings downtown, the sentence is meant to promo all the big shiny stuff gone up in recent years, but bette wording could be found....However I can answer a bit, if not provide the cite, for the now-fact-templated:
"International student" is a formal category at the universities, not just "students from other countries"; at SFU with a student population of ~25,000, there are only ~1000, maybe ~1500 official "international students". Anybody who's been on either campus for more than an hour knows that a huge amount of students, at SFU perhaps well into the majority, are "from" other countries and/or don't speak English on a daily basis except when required to and may be perceived to be "international students"....but as noted that's an official category, relating to admissions and tuition policies; all the rest are Canadian citizens or official residents, albeit whose primary residence and/or culture/identity is international in nature. This is an unfortunate result of the ways universities keep stats and create categories; the SFU Reports publication soemwhere will have an item in its pages, though they're not online; I'd imagine the same is true of UBC's official publications; but the Ubyssey maybe has an article that gives the figure, or somewhere on UBC's site there may be a mention of the current and historical figures. Skookum1 ( talk) 04:58, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I have found on an official document (bottom of page 1) by the City of Vancouver that Seoul is not a sister city of Vancouver. I have also looked around the City's site and found no mention of Seoul, South Korea being Vancouver's sister city. Also, on the city of Seoul's website, they also do not mention Vancouver as a sister city. So I think Seoul is definitely not Vancouver's sister city. Krazywrath ( talk) 08:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The side bar says the population of the city is 1,578,401 for 2008, but the population growth section says that the population was 578,401 in 2006 and 611,869 in 2007. It seems unlikely that the population increased by exactly one million in two years. -- 68.163.109.25 ( talk) 18:47, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
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This "(pronounced /vænˈkuːvɚ/)" bugs me - I know a bit about IPA and that /væn/ looks decidedly American to me. What's the citation for what's given here? Is this the local pronunciation? The CBC-English pronunciation? Again, that /væn/ just sounds like it has too much twang, a "native Vancouverite" tends to have a "flat a", whatever that symbol is.....not that there's anything such as a "person actually from Vancouver" anymore, and not that there has been. But to me this is reminiscent of "FraZHYer" for "Fraser". Skookum1 ( talk) 16:08, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Many thanks to those who took/added the panoramic pics! The article is beautiful. Very impressive!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Anna Frodesiak ( talk • contribs) February 8, 2009
I added a fact template to this, which apparently comes from one of the sources (but it's wrong):
Actually, the construction of the West End high rises reduced the overall West End population and its density; sites that had once held multiple-apartment houses covering nearly the whole lot were replaced with towers of single-occupancy suites with dedicated open space around the tower. I'm pretty sure this is somewhere in Peter McDonald's Historical Atlas of Vancouver or whatever it's called, and I think it's in Chuck Davis' Vancouver Book also, and gets mentioned in newspaper columns from time to time; Downtown South/Yaletown is a different matter and taht area was never heavily populated until the modern era. As for those 1950s and '60s constructions being made for cycling and public transit, that's laughable; the older era was indeed bicycle-devoted (the first pavement in British Columbia was for the Stanley Park Ring Road - now Park Drive - in the early 1890s, for bicycles) but planning priorities in the '50s and '60s were anything but oriented towards bicycles and transit; anti-transit is more like it, which is why the plethora of parking garages which now occupy the space bounded by Burrard-Melville-Pender-Bute (once a high-density housing area). And it's not like the West End has good transit either. Anyone here had to wait for a Robson bus or a Davie, or had to endure the ride? The old trolleys were ripped up in the 1950s, as part of teh same planning priorities. As I've often quipped, "it would help if those who want to rewrite history would read some first". Skookum1 ( talk) 21:24, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Considering that there are two medium-sized cities in the Pacific Northwest of North America with the name Vancouver, it's awfully confusing and strange to have this page direct searches for "Vancouver" to Vancouver, BC. How would one go about changing that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 01:19, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Most people around the world don't "think" about Vancouver, period. Neither the Canadian nor the American city is a London, Tokyo, or New York. To those who think about it the most--that is, those living in the Pacific Northwest--the confusion over the two names is significant, and often requires clarification.
Furthermore, Portland, OR is a much larger city than Portland, ME (about 10x larger); while Vancouver, BC is only about 4X larger than Vancouver, WA. And they're both in the same region, which adds to further confusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 02:01, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Yet, typing Portland into wikipedia takes you to a disambiguation. No doubt most people typing Portland are looking for the larger, Oregon city, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't go to a disambiguation when you have two cities with populations in the six figures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 02:03, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Uh, no they don't; not necessarily. Maybe in the circles in which you run. Most people in the Portland metro area (the Pac NW's third largest metro area) are likely to think of Vancouver, WA, depending on the context. In Seattle (the largest metro area in the Pac NW), there is confusion as well, as Seattle is roughly equidistant between the two Vancouvers. People in Seattle are known to clarify the Vancouver to which they refer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 02:19, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Umm, who is making personal attack statements or being uncivil? I would be curious if you could quote anything written in this section that qualifies as either.
To the point, many US cities include the name of the state in which they are located because there is some confusion as to which place one is referring. So for cities such as Chicago or Seattle, where there are no others with that name, simply typing the name alone is sufficient. For cities like Portland or Vancouver, where there is more than one fairly large and/or noteworthy place with those names, it is necessary to add the state or country for clarification.
Having the Olympics is great, and if someone in Seattle, or Portland, or Bellingham says "I'm going to the Olympics in Vancouver!" it will be clear from the context which city they mean. If someone in one of those places says, however, I have a business trip in Vancouver this weekend, it will not be clear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 04:44, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
I have never heard anyone refer to Vancouver, Washington without specifically saying they're talking about the American city. I hear people refer to Vancouver, BC without specifying all the time. From my point of view, the default Vancouver is certainly Vancouver, BC. Of course I live in Canada... I am not sure if there are "Wikipedia style guidelines" that cover this topic, but perhaps someone could check? Perhaps the default should be Metro Vancouver... TastyCakes ( talk) 06:08, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
There's no question that, as the larger city, Vancouver, BC, is the primary usage of Vancouver, but it is still ambiguous. Many newspapers in major cities specify BC to clarify that issue, and I don't see why Wikipedia should be any different.
For example:
Here's an article from the Oregonian (Portland): http://www.oregonlive.com/travel/index.ssf/2009/01/vancouver_bc_dayandnight_delig.html
Here's from the Anchorage Daily News: http://www.adn.com/money/story/674122.html
LA Times article: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/02/stop-the-presse.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.32.177 ( talk) 08:12, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Latecomer to the discussion, but I just want to say one thing: in exactly two US states, the name is ambiguous enough that you virtually always have to specify which one you mean. In the entire rest of the world outside of those two states, the name "Vancouver" without a state or province after it is always taken to mean the Canadian one. The end result is that the one in Washington can almost never be referred to as just "Vancouver" without a state name after it, because even in the small region where it is a prominent and well-known topic in its own right it still has to be disambiguated from the other one, whereas the Canadian one can be referred to as "Vancouver" without a province name in about 99 per cent of the entire world. That's what makes the Canadian one a primary topic.
And furthermore, to those who are claiming that there isn't a large population disparity between the two cities, keep in mind that the comparison isn't between a city of 150,000 people and one of 500,000 people — the 500K one is the central hub and namesake of a metropolitan area of over two million people, while the 150K city is a suburb of a metropolitan area which is named for a different city in the area. So the comparison is between 150K and two million, not 150K and 500K. Bearcat ( talk) 20:18, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This is an
essay. It contains the advice or opinions of one or more Wikipedia contributors. This page is not an encyclopedia article, nor is it one of
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The issue regarding Vancouver's name space landing on the Canadian city versus a disambiguation page due to its shared name with the United States city Vancouver, Washington arises frequently. In this page is a summary and collection of arguments, facts, and details surrounding the circumstances of "why Vancouver is not a disambiguation page".
The canonical form for cities in the United States is [[City, State]] (the "comma convention"). Those cities that need additional disambiguation include their county or parish (for example Elgin, Lancaster County, South Carolina and Elgin, Kershaw County, South Carolina). If more than one city, town, or census-designated place within the same county has the same name, specify the type of local government unit in parentheses before the comma (e.g., Poughkeepsie (city), New York and Poughkeepsie (town), New York, but not "Poughkeepsie, New York (city)"). Three unincorporated communities bear two states' names due to their peculiar locations across a state line: Glenrio, New Mexico and Texas, Freedom, Idaho and Wyoming, and Ray, Indiana and Michigan.
Cities listed in the AP Stylebook as not requiring the state modifier may have their articles named [[City]] provided they are the primary topic for that name. The cities listed by the AP are Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Honolulu, Houston, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, New Orleans, New York City, Oklahoma City, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle and Washington. [1] No other American city may have its article named [[City]]. Proposals to move any of the above-listed cities are initiated per the instructions at Wikipedia:Requested moves, and should be announced on the talk page of these guidelines.
A United States city's article should never be titled "city, country" (e.g., "Detroit, United States") or "city, state, country" (e.g., "Kansas City, Missouri, USA").
For cities which do not qualify for undisambiguated titles, the correct title format is [[City, Province/Territory]] (the "comma convention"). For the territories, please note that the correct forms are "City, Yukon" (not "City, Yukon Territory") and "City, Nunavut" (not "City, Nunavut Territory"), but "City, Northwest Territories". For the easternmost province, the proper form is "City, Newfoundland and Labrador". Localities that need further disambiguation beyond the province or territory include their county, municipality or parish. (e.g. Armstrong, Thunder Bay District, Ontario, due to the need to disambiguate it from the Armstrong, Ontario in Timiskaming District — as the one in Timiskaming is an incorporated municipality, it gets title precedence.)
A Canadian city's article, however, should never be titled simply "city, Canada" (e.g "Halifax, Canada"), although it is permissible to create a title of this type as a redirect to the properly titled article. Similarly, a title that uses the province's two-letter postal abbreviation should never be the primary article title, although creating a redirect is permitted. You may also create redirects from documentably common misspellings such as "Winnepeg", "Ottowa", "St. Catherine's" or "Iqualuit", although it is not necessary to anticipate every conceivable misspelling that could possibly arise.
Dedicated city categories should always be named with the same title format as the city's main article. That is, if the article is at Toronto, then use "Toronto" rather than "Toronto, Ontario" in category names, but if it's at Regina, Saskatchewan, then name the related categories in the format "Regina, Saskatchewan" rather than "Regina".
A former geographic name, such as Berlin, Ontario, Fraserville, Quebec, Bytown or York, Upper Canada, should only have a separate article if there's something substantial that can be written about the history of that name — otherwise it should exist only as a redirect to the place's current name.
See also Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board/Cities, an ongoing project to review which Canadian cities are likely or unlikely to qualify for page moves.
In 2006 the United States editors agreed to partially adopt the Geographic Naming Convention and many parts of the International Naming Convention. This initial discussion can be found here. Follow up and the implementation as well as the additional and final details can be found on the archive pages of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (settlements) and Wikipedia:Naming conventions.
In summary this allowed certain cities like San Diego, Los Angeles, and Boston (to name a few) to exclude the formula <city>, <state> and replace it with <city>, in the AP Stylebook format, if the place was the Primary topic. Canadian editors had already been using the International Naming Convention and had allowed the exclusion of having the province of Canada in the name of a city that was the 'Primary topic'.
Past dispute, on whether Vancouver should link to a disambiguation page or land on the Canadian city, has not been about the ease to the most number of editors, or the fact that the naming conventions exist, but rather if Vancouver (British Columbia) is notable enough to be a primary topic over Vancouver, Washington. What is certain is that this has been the subject of somewhat heated debate over years and will likely continue to do so in the future. Personal loyalty, bias, and overall pride for one's city has clouded the true objective of this Wikipedia -- creating a free encyclopedia. Accessibility is only a small part in the large picture.
In January 2009, the article Vancouver (referring to Vancouver, British Columbia) was visited 136,415 times (an average of 4,400 hits per day) [2], ranking it 968 most visited. [2] The article was visited a total of 1,269,997 times in 2008. [3] Comparatively, the article Vancouver, Washington was visited 11,023 times (an average of 355 hits per day). [4] The article was visited a total of 121,106 times in 2008. [5] Factoring in the mishits (hits to the article that were intended for other Vancouver-related articles such as Vancouver, Washington or Vancouver Island) the numbers intended for Vancouver, British Columbia are still significantly greater than even the sum of all the articles that share the name and/or content involving the keyword "Vancouver". It was also noted that the redirect Vancouver, British Columbia was visited 8,203 times (an average of 264 hits per day) [6] further contributing to the argument of most easy accessibility to Wikipedians.
Additionally, what links here reports a little under 1,000 English Wikipedia page links to Vancouver, Washington. [7] These include talk pages, templates, signatures, user boxes, redirects, and more. Articles about regions in and around Washington state and articles about US naval ships were among the highest in appearance (just over 50%). The article Vancouver has over 8,500 page links. [8] Sports, biographies, and events were among the highest in appearance (just over 18%). Again the links intended for other Vancouver-related articles that were mistakenly linked were considered, and the article Vancouver, British Columbia with a little under 3,500 links [9] was used as the offset factor.
Vancouver (British Columbia) was the host city for Expo 86, the 2010 Winter Olympics, and 2010 Winter Paralympics. In January 2009, the article 2010 Winter Olympics was visited 44,861 times (an average of 1,447 hits per day). [10] While the 2008 Summer Olympics were unprecedented, the article was visited 4,519,081 times in August, 2008 (an average of 150,636 times per day). [11] The article Beijing in the same month was visited 688,198 times (an average of 22,199 times per day). [12] The expectations of the increasing popularity of Wikipedia as a research tool coupled with the popularity of the Olympics gave for strong support to not have Vancouver as a disambiguation page. [13]
Facts about Vancouver: (as found on the WikiProject Vancouver)
No WikiProject for
Vancouver, Washington nor mention of it on the
WikiProject Washington exists, though information about the city was readily available on the article itself. The city distinguishes itself with a population of 162,400. It seems to have had a rich history and association with the military (especially the navy) due to the number of articles about US naval ships that link to the main article. Possibly inaccurate, a resident of
Vancouver, Washington described it on a major discussion as a suburb city to
Portland, Oregon. Much like
Richmond, British Columbia is to
Metro Vancouver.
An unofficial vote closed by User:Tariqabjotu was done on the Talk:Vancouver (disambiguation). The vote ended on August, 27, 2006 resulting in a 20 - 1 decision not to request a move. A link to notify editors was placed on the Canadian Wikipedians' notice board (the Canadian focal point for all naming convention conflicts and implementation) as well as Wikipedia Naming Conventions (the United States and main Wikipedia focal point for all naming conventions, conflicts, and implementation).
A second vote, supervised by Wikipedia Administrator User:JHunterJ, 3 years later, and the most recent was taken at Wikipedia_talk:Disambiguation/Archive_28#Vancouver_versus_Vancouver.2C_Washington. Messages were posted to members of the following to participate.
The voted ended on February 10, 2009 resulting in a 20 - 1 decision not to move the article Vancouver to Vancouver, British Columbia (or another name) and make Vancouver a disambiguation page.
A google test based upon link usage has Vancouver (British Columbia) listed on the top 11 search results. The 12th spot is the City of Vancouver, Washington, and then the next 20 results are Vancouver, BC related. [14] While Google tests cannot be definitive and generally not solely used to decide WP:N especially on WP:AfD, it is commonly used as an argumentative point.
Welcome to Wikipedia Bureaucracy. As a resident of Vancouver, Canada, I of course have my own biases and this essay is far from perfect. I simply did the best I could to logically rationalize, support, and present my argument in a way that not only reflects what the rest of Wikipedia is doing, that we're following convention, but also by readership accessibility.
I was discussing the pros and cons with a fellow editor about why disambiguation pages exist and for the sheer consistency and fairness make every shared name link first to a disambiguation page. After all, not everyone wants to go to just one article. Then came the analogies. On a dusty road a pedestrian can cross it whenever they like. Some more busy streets have pedestrian controlled crosswalks. The number of cars moving down the street might significantly outnumber the pedestrian wanting to cross the road but at some point they need to cross, so we accommodate them (insert one disambiguation page). Perhaps its an intersection with 2 busy roads and many pedestrians, the majority of them all moving in one direction, but we have lights. Now imagine a highway. An overhead walkway is more inconvenient, but it defeats the purpose of having a highway if you put stops in every step of the way. In the end it works out for some greater good.
The fact is this is the way we all live our lives in this society of ours. There are fast lanes, and slower traffic keeps right. Highways and walkways, lineups and NEXUS card lineups. All for the purpose of making our travels that much more quick. We have naturally brought that chaotic organization with us to Wikipedia. Not everyone wins, but no one really loses. The entire internet has been based upon clicking links. The average number of times a person clicks is between 450 - 1,500 in a day [15] -- what is 1 more?
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Thanks Mkdw for making the effort to summarize this! Perhaps this should be copied onto an FAQ sub-page, so it's easy to point to when this comes up again four months from now, just like clockwork. Franamax ( talk) 19:05, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm conducting a new survey since the last was done 3 years ago (an editors lifetime on Wikipedia) at 2009 Vancouver Vs. Vancouver, Washington Survey. Your input would be most appreciated. Mkdw talk 21:25, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Why does Vancouver have this nickname? There's no mention of it in the article. Where does it come from? What is it referring to? OlEnglish ( talk) 02:38, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
The article says:
"While the number of cars in Vancouver proper has been steadily rising with population growth, the rate of car ownership and the average distance driven by daily commuters have fallen since the early 1990s.[63][64] Vancouver is the only major Canadian city with these trends."
Is that true? Because I read somewhere quite recently that although Calgary's downtown working population has increased dramatically, parking spots have not risen nearly as fast and much greater use of public transportation (the
C-Train especially) has resulted. Now rate of car ownership may not be down in Calgary, but I think % of commuters that take public transport must be, so I'm skeptical about the Vancouver claim. Further, even if it is true, monitoring it to make sure it remains true, and continuing to judge what classifies as a "major Canadian city" seems to warrant changing the language if nothing else.
TastyCakes (
talk)
18:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be disagreement about the population of Vancouver and Metro Vancouver. Please stop using the info box as a discussion (it makes the article look messy) and talk about it here. A decision should be made whether we will continue use of the 2006 census for the official population details or use current estimates. Also please avoid including red links as well as extending the length of the introduction. Any adjustments should be made to the proper demographics section or info box, or simply updating already existing numerical figures. (this comment was intended for more than one editor) Mkdw talk 17:25, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
I do not have an issue with which stats are used as long as they are consistent and accurate. The Lower Mainland is consalidation of the Greater Vancouver Refional District and the Fraser Valley Regional District. While "Metro Vancouver" is just the name of the governmental body which manages the GVRD. The statistics being posted on the Vancouver page do not accurately represent the geographic areas, even using the 2006 raw data. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Scrillamunsta (
talk •
contribs)
16:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
Hello! I am from Taiwan. My friend tell me there is two Vancouver. Is there Vancouver in Canada also? If there is two Vancouver why do they have same name? It is confusion. Thank you your advice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.228.79.152 ( talk) 14:18, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Population in the infobox is messed up. The pic of totem pole and mountains in the background don't look familiar, and other recent edits by IP 24.something-or-other don't look right.-- Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 05:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I am curious as to why they do not look right, as well the population has not been tampered with... all that there has been done is moving and changing of images... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.138.107 ( talk) 17:48, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
-- File:Totem poles.jpg and why cant Vancouver show off some of its palm trees as they are somewhat unique to Canada? File:Vancouverpalms.jpg, """"So are teh monkey puzzles and the huge rhodos; between the palm trees and "censoring rain" you're engaging in the wannabe-California syndrome. "Denial", that is. That totem pole, and the one behind it - that's definitely the collection at Brockton Point; that pole is Kwakwaka'wakw, the one behind it is Tlingit; beyind the tour bus (fake trolley) in the background is the bulk feeder at Neptune Terminals on the North Shore, tha'ts definitely Vancouver at its kitschiest Skookum1 ( talk) 00:15, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
also I had originally removed File:Stanley Park 1999 Rain.jpg because of the fact that Vancouver is relatively dry in the summer time, so I thought the dry and sunny palm trees would help better represent Vancouver's summer time, however I do not currently live in Vancouver so I could be wrong and Anna Frodesiak could be more correct on this one???
-- I agree i like this picture http://www.whale-images.com/data/media/2/crw_1505.jpg, but tell me this, why does Toronto receive more precipitation then Vancouver, yet it doesn't show off its summer time as rainy, I just thought its misleading and Vancouver's summers would be better represented with a nice dry sunny day picture, with the palm trees being more of a bonus than anything.
both File:Vancouverpalms.jpg and http://www.whale-images.com/data/media/2/crw_1505.jpg would work well together in my opinion.
- also i think the File:Totem poles.jpg add a nice touch to the sister cities section? yes no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.138.107 ( talk) 20:42, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
-the only thing that was not relevant with the pictures was the totem poles, which like you said do deserve to be in there, as for the palm trees why does it make it not right to include palm trees just because seattle or portland do not have palm trees... how does this make sense? Also, it does seem fairly obvious that Vancouver receives less precipitation then Toronto IN THE SUMMER TIME... check environment Canada's website, please. All I hear is rubbish—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.138.107 ( talk) 10:52, 4 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.81.204 ( talk)
Palm trees and totem poles aside, the metro population currently displays a link (a dead link, that is). If someone has a RS, the infobox would look better with an actual number. APK thinks he's ready for his closeup 16:02, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the population figure, just so everybody knows...because of the infobox's actual coding syntax, it will display a long string of gibberish if you insert the StatsCan reference directly after the number in the same entry field. The citation for population figures needs to be added to the separate field for "population_footnotes", not directly next to the number itself. Bearcat ( talk) 23:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Because of the muddying of waters caused by the transformation of the GVRD into "Metro", as the Vancouver press is now styling The Regional District Now Known as Vancouver, the infobox population field usage, "Metro", meaning metroplitan region, apposite to "urban", here meaning Metro-Vancouver-the-regional-district, there's got to be a footnote placed on the field-names to explain what they refer to, as it is not clear at all. I see in a later instance that Metro is defined as GVRD + FVRD, and while that's certainly the Lower Mainland (though including minor non-Lower Mainland locations like Boston Bar and Spuzzum), it's still quesitonable of Chilliwack is part of the metropoiltan area; and if it is, then so is Squamish and, really, also Whistler. What is teh actual metropoiltan area population is thus OR to work out, as StstsCan has opeted to create its own definition based on RD boundaries but othe than that technicality, the instances in the infobox are not in teh same frame of reference as what "urban" means in the Lower Mainland vs. "rural". Counting the rural population of the GVRD, and the urban population of the FVRD, is really the relevant term, and using "metro" as a rough synonym for the Lower Mainland doesn't wash, both for the RD-name reason as well as that much of the Loewr Mainland is neither urban nor "metro" (small-case m). Anyway I don't know how to annotate the infobox, or maybe it's just too late at night to sort it out. The fields as named are confusing in the local context, they need explanation/context. Skookum1 ( talk) 07:01, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
On a similar tack, the postal codes shown are City of Vancouver only; those for the GVRD/Metro should be shown as well, in a separate field, and those form the FVRD not (some overlap - Ruskin's rural route is VOM IRO and straddles the Maple Ridge-Mission boundary. But since the infobox clearly covers more than just CoV, it can't just do it for population.... Skookum1 ( talk) 07:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
OK, now I see that article is sprot'ed, which always bugs me a bit. Major articles undergo regular little vandalism chips (which we revert in common course), this one has now gotten to the stage of "excessive vandalism". Although it pains me to respond to undiscussed and repeated IP edits, one sort stands out:
As a relatively new resident of the Canadian west coast, can someone explain to me how the Vancouver/Lower Mainland area became part of the " Pacific Northwest"? Isn't Vancouver part of the "Pacific Southwest" in terms of Canada?
My only understanding of this is from geography class in high school long ago, where I came to understand that the "north" component of the moniker was in relation to US territorial boundaries, the "west" component was "past the Mississippi" and the "Pacific" part was "over the last mountains but before the ocean". Only the last definition applies in the case of the Vancouver/Lower Mainland region. One common definition of course is "where it rains all the time but hardly ever snows" - but I don't see that as a primary definition in the Pacific Northwest article.
So anyway, I'm curious as to the process where Vancouver has come to be defined as part of the "Pacific Northwest" and I'm happy to be enlightened. There is also the notion of Cascadia as a competing or maybe complementary concept. But I don't see primary notability there either. Any help? Franamax ( talk) 03:54, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}}
Please, would someone with authority change a URL on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver#References
Line item # 85: Real Estate Price Charts Blog, http://www.canadian-housing-price-charts.235.ca/charts.htm
...to the new (shorter) URL: http://www.chpc.biz/
If the old (longer) URL is on other Wikipedia reference pages, could it be changed as well?
Thanks in advance, W235813 ( talk) 18:32, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Not done: Sorry, someone dropped the reference.
Celestra (
talk)
02:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the note Celestra. Is it possible to get the link www.chpc.biz placed back into the reference list? I am the author of that site, and each month I update and publish 7 charts that plot the housing prices of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal, as well as a feature chart on Vancouver's prices for Single Family Dwellings, Townhouses and Condominiums. According to my server trafic stats, some +/-10,000 unique visitors come to the site each month to view the monthly updates. Cheers, W235813 ( talk) 07:44, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
It has been brought to my attention that these new photos being added by User:Guyfrombronx are not originals, where the uploader is solely the copyright holder, but rather have been taken from Flickr. It is unclear if this editor has received permission from the various photographers to use these images. I am especially concerned since these photos are not all from the same source, but a variety of flickr users. Under these circumstances, I believe that WP:COPYRIGHT must be confidently satisfied for these changes to be made to a featured article. Furthermore, attention to the Vancouver article has skyrocketed with the Olympics fast approaching and I would like to make sure it's in presentable shape and we not embarrass ourselves by stealing work and perpetuating a negative view of Wikipedia work that has been identified as "the best Wikipedia has to offer". Mkdw talk 07:02, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
There has been a concern regarding the photos User:Guyfrombronx has uploaded and inserted into Canadian articles. A number of fellow editors have found that Guyfrombronx has not obtained or failed to properly show the licensing required to use these images on Wikipedia or the Commons. The photos are primarily from Flickr.com and from several photographers. We also have not been able to determine if all the photos are from Flickr and could be from other sources. Due to these facts we are inclined to believe that he has obtained these images illegally and have removed them from Wikipedia articles as per WP:COPYRIGHT. Until we have confirmation that such permission to use these photos under a Common license has been granted by each photographer we will continue to remove the images. Attempts have been made to contact Guyfrombronx, and it appears they have been unsuccessful. Mkdw talk 21:38, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I was just thinking why does the Metro pop. use the Lower Mainland since Abbotsford id it's own metro area which includes Mission and also the pop. I found out that the metro pop for Vancouver is the same of the Metro Vancouver Regional District. RebaFan1996 ( talk) 01:55, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi, is there any consensus to add a link to http://www.discovervancouver.com/ to the external links section of this article? Do you feel it merits inclusion given our guidelines at Wikipedia:External links? I do not have an opinion on this link, but rather following up after blocking Dvancouver ( talk · contribs) for COI / spam of this link. Thanks/ wangi ( talk) 17:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Discover Vancouver has in the past been heavily criticised for allowing the basest sort of racist postings on it's forum, even today some of that nauseating race baiting continues.IMO they are to be avoided.
I'm going to be honest here. I've been a regular at DV for a few years and I think it's a great forum. We get people from all over the world coming to this forum and the majority of the people are good people. There are people from across Canada and the United states, even people from Europe and Asia making regular appearances. Sure there are a couple of jerks (especially the ones who are making comments about disgusting crap and racism...HI Ace!) There has been some troubles with racism, mostly from teenagers who think it's really funny to make bad comments from the safety of their computers.
DV has changed a lot over the years. The main problem is a lot of the old troublemakers didn't like the new rules implemented into the system. Since then we've had a lot of trouble with spammers, post bombers, etc. but the mods have done a great job cleaning everything up. I think DV could really benefit from being posted on Wiki.
I disagree. There's a lot more to DV than the forum. It's an entire website with a lot of good information aimed at tourists. I have nothing to gain by having DV on Wiki (I'm not an owner) but I would love to see it a part of Wiki.
So skookum, why do you keep removing any post that isn't negative? I took the time to support DV as a useful site only to have it removed? How about I delete your comments and see how you like it.