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Methuselah (World of Darkness) was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 15 December 2009 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Vampire: The Masquerade. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
Vampire: The Masquerade received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
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How does one avoid erroneous redirection? I wanted to enable a possible link from the Maasai to the Laibon, the healer shamans of this ethnic group, but it ended up here... -- Xact ( talk) 20:18, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
A seemingly well-meaning editor has replaced a conservative screed with a counterargument instead of reverting to a more neutral version. The most recent neutral version was from August 9, but I can't figure out how revert to it. JDspeeder1 ( talk) 01:51, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I have a bit of an issue with the listing of the Antediluvians in the clan section. For one thing, it could be considered a bit of a spoiler and I don't feel it's information that belongs on the main V:tM article. Shouldn't we be sticking to the core book instead of combing supplements for the true names of the antediluvians and every obscure bloodline? For another, I haven't even heard of some of these guys and I've been keeping up with Vampire for several years now. So I checked Gehenna, specifically the "official" list at the end of the Introduction, and found no reference to Ilyes, Laro Somi Barra or Mekneth. While I could have missed something in the Brujah or Lasombra clanbooks, Clanbook: Tzimisce purposely avoids giving any name to the founder. Veddartha and Dacian are also absent from the list of "canon" antediluvians, though I recall those names at least being tossed about in suppliments at some point. Essentially my complaint is that a) some of this stuff is unsupported and does not exist in published sources to the best of my knowledge, and b) the clan proginators and the list of bloodlines are unusually specific for this page - it's similar in principle to including a complete list of the saints on Christianity. -- 70.161.56.58 05:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Some of the bloodlines information is just flat wrong and even more is supposition that wasn't actually printed anywhere. It should be removed or re-done.
I am not very familiar with the gameplay mechanics of Vampire:Masquerade and games like it, but I do believe they are more extemporaneous story telling and less rule focused.
I would like to see someone with game knowledge discuss the mechanics.
I can only try my best. - Suriyawong, August 8, 2004.
I'm not sure the template Fictional Setting is useful. See Template talk:Fictional Setting for the discussion I've tried to create on this point. — OwenBlacker 19:23, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)
I think the fact that the Daughters of Cacophony keep getting changed every other day suggests that "Debated" is the best answer for their parent clan. -- Amokk 19:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Can someone put a link to Rod Ferrell?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 06:45, 2006 October 31 ( talk • contribs) 216.243.132.205.
I moved the clan/bloodline/founder page to the WoD clans page as they really belong there and are full of spoilers. Tried to clean up the look of the page a little. Hopefully it all went well. Cameronmurtagh 11:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
"Many maintain that the game's "moral play" aspects have been overlooked or discarded in favor of an action-horror style of play, especially facilitated by the strange, dreadful and dangerous powers of Disciplines."
The additions by 209.63.2.253 are all right, except the "many say" part and such are POV without any evidence supporting it. Many could be "my 3 friends and I" but that doesn't belong on wikipedia. -- Amokk 22:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
People interested in / contributing to World of Darkness articles please add to the current debate; Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ravnos regarding the page Ravnos concerning the Vampire: The Masquerade clan being nominated for deletion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.190.34.219 ( talk) 23:32, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Target article is subject of AfD discussion ( Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Methuselah_(World_of_Darkness)). Probably better served to be here? Vulture19 ( talk) 01:54, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
The Japanese link went to a minor sourcebook's page (It was for Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom). Japanese Wikipedia DOES have a page for World of Darkness which covers VTM, but because it's already linked to on the WoD page, I can't make it link there. I saw no place to note that when removing the link, so I'll note it here. -- 68.202.59.244 ( talk) 06:24, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
Most of the clan-articles were emptied with the message "see Talk:Clans and Bloodlines in Vampire: The Masquerade" and redirected here. Others had "NN, primary sources only, redirect to parent", "redirect page as it's all in-universe material with no secondary sources to show notability (seems like some OR too, and opinion,etc)" and "Given the mass deletions, I'd say consensus is for removing these articles. Redirecting as such." by users: Seraphimblade, Craw-daddy and The Millionth One.
As the whole thing seems left unfinished and the above page deleted, perhaps either one of the users could shed some light; why does {{ WoD vampire clans}} still exist with so many redirects, along with the article on Malkavians, although it's got the {{ notability}}-template on it? Why were the clans not merged into a single page as like Masquerade society for the sects or the one on Clans and Bloodlines in Vampire: The Requiem - are those not as (un)notable as the "old" clans? But perhaps that was the Clans and Bloodlines in Vampire: The Masquerade mentioned in Articles for deletion/Clan (World of Darkness), which I suppose was deleted along with the others in Articles for deletion/Gargoyles (World of Darkness)? And lastly, the reason for the article Black Hand (World of Darkness) not being merged into the society one as with Tal'mahe'Ra. Thanks in advance. TherasTaneel ( talk) 02:28, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello,
@ Goblin, Belarius, North911, Genesis, Cameronmurtagh, and Ultraviolet scissor flame: who seem to be main contributors of this article, but also to anyone interested in:
In the article Character race#Race-driven campaign, I mentionned Vampire: The Masquerade because it seems to have changed the way races were handeled in tabletop RPGs. Especially, with VTM, the race is not only a flavour or a list of capabilities, but the real core of the plot.
However, I never player VTM, so I would like some "specialists" to have a look at this assertion.
Regards
cdang| write me 08:26, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm nominating Masquerade_society to be merged with this page. Masquerade_society's content is excessive and only of interest to a small portion of the RPG fanbase. This content would be better served as a summary in the maine V:tM page. Sugarcoma ( talk) 22:43, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I've attempted to address some of the issues on this page:
If people don't object, prior to the 5th edition coming out I intend to restructure this article, putting some of the more "enclyclopedia-friendly" info about the history of the game and its importance, near the top of the article, and the more "gamer-friendly" info about WoD mechanics and milieu later into the article. This is part of a general project I'd like to do on the articles for White Wolf games, which are highly variable in their quality and encyclopedia-friendliness. Does anyone have objections or advice, or even (shudder :P) would like to help? Newimpartial ( talk) 15:05, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
Is there a particular reason why this page (or any of the other WOD games pages) is not included in the Category:Role-playing game systems?-- 66.235.23.229 ( talk) 00:23, 21 February 2019 (UTC) (The above was me, not yet signed in. Sorry.) -- Ashareem ( talk) 00:24, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
There was a fair bit of controversy around various elements of the WoD stuff before that should probably be mentioned (although not all of it directly applies to VtM, some of the Gypsy stuff certainly does). However, 5th Edition itself has been so controversial it actually destroyed White Wolf as a publishing company so that their current owners (Paradox) has removed most (if not all of the management) and restructured them to be solely existing to license their IP out. Chiefly this is related to the 5th’s framing of the ongoing, real-life, issue of the Chechnyan government murdering homosexual citizens as part of a vampire thing (this from the same people that had previously decided to not make 9/11 part of the plot). Paradox had press releases and things, they have stated all future publishing will be done by Morphius and Onyx Path, this should be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.127.152.5 ( talk) 05:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/horribleguild/vampire-the-masquerade-vendetta?ref=a9ip21 Presumably this is connected? Jellinator ( talk)
What is this personal horror that is listed as the genre in several WoD articles? It seems to be unreferenced in every case I've seen. Is it a term coined by White Wolf? Mika1h ( talk) 14:17, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Vampire: The Masquerade article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Methuselah (World of Darkness) was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 15 December 2009 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Vampire: The Masquerade. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
Vampire: The Masquerade received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
|
How does one avoid erroneous redirection? I wanted to enable a possible link from the Maasai to the Laibon, the healer shamans of this ethnic group, but it ended up here... -- Xact ( talk) 20:18, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
A seemingly well-meaning editor has replaced a conservative screed with a counterargument instead of reverting to a more neutral version. The most recent neutral version was from August 9, but I can't figure out how revert to it. JDspeeder1 ( talk) 01:51, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I have a bit of an issue with the listing of the Antediluvians in the clan section. For one thing, it could be considered a bit of a spoiler and I don't feel it's information that belongs on the main V:tM article. Shouldn't we be sticking to the core book instead of combing supplements for the true names of the antediluvians and every obscure bloodline? For another, I haven't even heard of some of these guys and I've been keeping up with Vampire for several years now. So I checked Gehenna, specifically the "official" list at the end of the Introduction, and found no reference to Ilyes, Laro Somi Barra or Mekneth. While I could have missed something in the Brujah or Lasombra clanbooks, Clanbook: Tzimisce purposely avoids giving any name to the founder. Veddartha and Dacian are also absent from the list of "canon" antediluvians, though I recall those names at least being tossed about in suppliments at some point. Essentially my complaint is that a) some of this stuff is unsupported and does not exist in published sources to the best of my knowledge, and b) the clan proginators and the list of bloodlines are unusually specific for this page - it's similar in principle to including a complete list of the saints on Christianity. -- 70.161.56.58 05:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Some of the bloodlines information is just flat wrong and even more is supposition that wasn't actually printed anywhere. It should be removed or re-done.
I am not very familiar with the gameplay mechanics of Vampire:Masquerade and games like it, but I do believe they are more extemporaneous story telling and less rule focused.
I would like to see someone with game knowledge discuss the mechanics.
I can only try my best. - Suriyawong, August 8, 2004.
I'm not sure the template Fictional Setting is useful. See Template talk:Fictional Setting for the discussion I've tried to create on this point. — OwenBlacker 19:23, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)
I think the fact that the Daughters of Cacophony keep getting changed every other day suggests that "Debated" is the best answer for their parent clan. -- Amokk 19:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Can someone put a link to Rod Ferrell?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 06:45, 2006 October 31 ( talk • contribs) 216.243.132.205.
I moved the clan/bloodline/founder page to the WoD clans page as they really belong there and are full of spoilers. Tried to clean up the look of the page a little. Hopefully it all went well. Cameronmurtagh 11:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
"Many maintain that the game's "moral play" aspects have been overlooked or discarded in favor of an action-horror style of play, especially facilitated by the strange, dreadful and dangerous powers of Disciplines."
The additions by 209.63.2.253 are all right, except the "many say" part and such are POV without any evidence supporting it. Many could be "my 3 friends and I" but that doesn't belong on wikipedia. -- Amokk 22:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
People interested in / contributing to World of Darkness articles please add to the current debate; Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ravnos regarding the page Ravnos concerning the Vampire: The Masquerade clan being nominated for deletion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.190.34.219 ( talk) 23:32, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Target article is subject of AfD discussion ( Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Methuselah_(World_of_Darkness)). Probably better served to be here? Vulture19 ( talk) 01:54, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
The Japanese link went to a minor sourcebook's page (It was for Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom). Japanese Wikipedia DOES have a page for World of Darkness which covers VTM, but because it's already linked to on the WoD page, I can't make it link there. I saw no place to note that when removing the link, so I'll note it here. -- 68.202.59.244 ( talk) 06:24, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
Most of the clan-articles were emptied with the message "see Talk:Clans and Bloodlines in Vampire: The Masquerade" and redirected here. Others had "NN, primary sources only, redirect to parent", "redirect page as it's all in-universe material with no secondary sources to show notability (seems like some OR too, and opinion,etc)" and "Given the mass deletions, I'd say consensus is for removing these articles. Redirecting as such." by users: Seraphimblade, Craw-daddy and The Millionth One.
As the whole thing seems left unfinished and the above page deleted, perhaps either one of the users could shed some light; why does {{ WoD vampire clans}} still exist with so many redirects, along with the article on Malkavians, although it's got the {{ notability}}-template on it? Why were the clans not merged into a single page as like Masquerade society for the sects or the one on Clans and Bloodlines in Vampire: The Requiem - are those not as (un)notable as the "old" clans? But perhaps that was the Clans and Bloodlines in Vampire: The Masquerade mentioned in Articles for deletion/Clan (World of Darkness), which I suppose was deleted along with the others in Articles for deletion/Gargoyles (World of Darkness)? And lastly, the reason for the article Black Hand (World of Darkness) not being merged into the society one as with Tal'mahe'Ra. Thanks in advance. TherasTaneel ( talk) 02:28, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello,
@ Goblin, Belarius, North911, Genesis, Cameronmurtagh, and Ultraviolet scissor flame: who seem to be main contributors of this article, but also to anyone interested in:
In the article Character race#Race-driven campaign, I mentionned Vampire: The Masquerade because it seems to have changed the way races were handeled in tabletop RPGs. Especially, with VTM, the race is not only a flavour or a list of capabilities, but the real core of the plot.
However, I never player VTM, so I would like some "specialists" to have a look at this assertion.
Regards
cdang| write me 08:26, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm nominating Masquerade_society to be merged with this page. Masquerade_society's content is excessive and only of interest to a small portion of the RPG fanbase. This content would be better served as a summary in the maine V:tM page. Sugarcoma ( talk) 22:43, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I've attempted to address some of the issues on this page:
If people don't object, prior to the 5th edition coming out I intend to restructure this article, putting some of the more "enclyclopedia-friendly" info about the history of the game and its importance, near the top of the article, and the more "gamer-friendly" info about WoD mechanics and milieu later into the article. This is part of a general project I'd like to do on the articles for White Wolf games, which are highly variable in their quality and encyclopedia-friendliness. Does anyone have objections or advice, or even (shudder :P) would like to help? Newimpartial ( talk) 15:05, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
Is there a particular reason why this page (or any of the other WOD games pages) is not included in the Category:Role-playing game systems?-- 66.235.23.229 ( talk) 00:23, 21 February 2019 (UTC) (The above was me, not yet signed in. Sorry.) -- Ashareem ( talk) 00:24, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
There was a fair bit of controversy around various elements of the WoD stuff before that should probably be mentioned (although not all of it directly applies to VtM, some of the Gypsy stuff certainly does). However, 5th Edition itself has been so controversial it actually destroyed White Wolf as a publishing company so that their current owners (Paradox) has removed most (if not all of the management) and restructured them to be solely existing to license their IP out. Chiefly this is related to the 5th’s framing of the ongoing, real-life, issue of the Chechnyan government murdering homosexual citizens as part of a vampire thing (this from the same people that had previously decided to not make 9/11 part of the plot). Paradox had press releases and things, they have stated all future publishing will be done by Morphius and Onyx Path, this should be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.127.152.5 ( talk) 05:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/horribleguild/vampire-the-masquerade-vendetta?ref=a9ip21 Presumably this is connected? Jellinator ( talk)
What is this personal horror that is listed as the genre in several WoD articles? It seems to be unreferenced in every case I've seen. Is it a term coined by White Wolf? Mika1h ( talk) 14:17, 27 June 2024 (UTC)