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Where does James P. Blaylock appear in the book? Or rather, what character is influenced by him? -- Viriditas | Talk 10:05, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
If there are three books, and all of them are available, doesn't that imply that it is a completed trilogy? Or is it that of the three books listed as the VALIS trilogy one of them is not a true part of the trilogy?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Earthbound01 ( talk • contribs) 14:17, March 28, 2006
@earthbound I believe there were meant to be FOUR books, and Dick died before writing the fourth. I believe it is a grammatical confusion, the article author used "trilogy" to allude to the existence of only three books. Perhaps a clearer reading could be had using some further qualifying explanation, or either the removal of the word "unfinished," or the changing of "trilogy" to "quadrilogy"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.244.245.5 ( talk • contribs) 23:39, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
Once and for all, there is no "VALIS Trilogy" ! Except as a marketing gimmick by the publishers and in the minds of a few very devoted fans. This is tragic perhaps, but it is the way it is. Dick's actual accomplishments are enough without making things up. Why does the public so crave tossing about the word "trilogy" anyway? The planned third book, The Owl in Daylight, never reached draft stage. Dick discusses this in interviews in late 1981 and early 1982 and makes fairly clear that the Transmigration of Timothy Archer is separate standalone work based on his experience with Bishop James A. Pike. It is very close to a Roman a Clef, as every major character is based on a real person and the major events for each, such as death, are exactly as in real life. He also regarded doing the novel in first person as a female character to be a notable accomplishment. All of that is in the transcripts of the interviews published as What If Our World is Their Heaven There seems to be no way of knowing what Dick planned beyond the unwritten third book in the series and definite statement that The Transmigration of Timothy Archer was a separate project he felt compelled to do before proceeding further with the VALIS work.
There was recently an AfD on Black Iron Prison ( Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black Iron Prison), which reached a consensus to merge that article into this one. I usually perform such merges myself, but I thought that in this instance I ought to leave it up to someone more familiar with the subject at hand. -- bainer ( talk) 01:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
-- Infernal.magnet 16:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
-- 85.226.208.85 07:32, 22 July 2006 (UTC)Vallentin 09:43, 20 July 2006
I did the merge. I put it in the section called "Philosophical and cultural references" but really have no idea where it should go. I have no clue what the book is about, and the Plot summary section doesn't have anything in it. I don't understand the relationship between VALIS, Exegesis and the Tractates. I don't know what the Black Iron Prison is or whether it's meant to be literal or metaphorical. The quote from Dick makes no sense, except the last sentence makes it sound like the Parable of the cave. Please, someone clarify this for naive people like me who haven't read the book! Tocharianne 03:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
The Gnostic stuff that the Black Iron Prison refers to isn't as obvious as 1984-esque overt government control, as all the "see also"s seem to suggest, but rather a sort of spiritual unenlightenment, not imposed by particular others. Read the description already! I'm killing these misleading see-alsos.
Bleedingcherub ( talk) 06:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
This is just a small list of concepts that I think could do with greater explaination.
Thus, it could be said that enlightenment by VALIS is an intensly bittersweet experience. Although Dick was shown many incredible things, these things also tormented him for the rest of his life as he tried to make what he had experienced fit within his pre-existing belief structure.
-- Infernal.magnet 16:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Dick claims to have had an urgent message that his infant son was in danger despite no symptoms. The child on careful examination had an inguinal hernia which supposedly if not operated on immediately would have killed the child. This is false. Inguinal hernias exist in varying degree from a tiny bulge to a full-blown 'strangulated' hernia which causes severe pain and vomiting and other symptoms and indeed necessitates immediate operation. However, most other forms of inguinal hernia do not require immediate operation, especially if causing no symptoms. An elective operation may be planned later to correct the hernia. A hernia is the protrusion of an organ from within the receptacle that normally contains it and in the case of an inguinal hernia usually means a part of the bowel has decided to come down the inguinal canal that normally transmits the spermatic cord and related structures between scrotum and abdominal cavity. As I said, this can be the merest bulge of bowel through a small hole (non-urgetn and causing no symptoms) or a whole loop of bowel which then twists and blocks (strangulates) and need urgent operation. So Dick was wrong. (mad-MD)
+ The condition existed whether the threat was imminent or not. Perhaps Zebra was indicating that there could have been complications that developed in the future if it was left untreated. Partial inaccuracy is not the same as complete incorrectness. (JC, July 2007)
These are opinions.
First, I don't think it's quite fair to characterize Dick's use of a fictional character to stand in for himself "this can all be viewed by the reader as a form of mental illness." True this "could" be viewed as mental illness. It could just as readily be viewed as a method of self-analysis that allows for a form of objectivity. In fact this is pointed out by Dick himself, as narrator, early in the book.
Second, in the Exegesis section it is stated that Dick claimed that VALIS...'the Earth satellite used "pink laser beams" to project thoughts into his head.' In truth it was the fictional character Horselover Fat who makes this claim. Almost all the sections of this article that attribute specific thoughts to P.K.D. are in fact in error because it was the character Horselover Fat who made these claims. See the first paragraph for an explanation regarding objectivity.
Yes, I know Dick wrote the book. But because he created a character to speak to these "observations" the use of that character should be respected in this analysis/article. After all Dick had a clear reason for using a fictional character. That reason, to provide Dick with some objectivity, should be respected.
Third, this play-list is flawed. Philip K. Dick is the narrator, Horselover Fat is the protagonist, not the narrator.
Fourth, though critics claim that this is not a work of fiction due to the apparent parallels to Dick's own life, my personal opinion is that this is indeed a work of fiction. This is largely due to the fact that the movie, VALIS, described in the book bears little (or no) similarity to the movie "The Man Who Fell to Earth" cited as the movie that inspired the fictional movie "VALIS" described in the book.
I know this is nit-picky, but the substance of this work of fiction is lost in this article due to an over-abundance of speculation. William (Bill) Bean 15:06, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
+ Re: "Second" and "Third": At the beginning of the book, Dick explicitly states that he is Horselover Fat, but that he uses this other character for narrative purposes. Throughout the book, Dick slips and refers to this character in the first person instead of as Horselover Fat, and then corrects himself. At first, it's more frequent than later in the book, where it gradually subsides until the meeting with Sophia where Dick/Horselover is "cured" and Horselover disappears, leaving only Dick himself. After Sophia's death, he fractures again. Further, any biographical or autobiographical reading about Dick's life will illuminate that this work -- specifically the details of Dick's madness/encounter with God/VALIS/Zebra/whatever -- is at least a partially factual account. (JC, July 2007)
+ Re: "Fourth": While you're correct in that this is indeed a work of fiction (in addition to VALIS bearing no resemblance to Man Who Fell to Earth, Mother Goose -- the character who is supposedly David Bowie -- never had a daughter who was extremely mentally mature and then died, nor did Brian Eno die from radiation exposure, nor did [countless other differences]), I think the best description could be "semi-fictional semi-autobiography", meaning that it's _based_ on a factual account of many aspects of Dick's life during 2-3-74, but fictional elements have been added for dramatic effect. (JC, July 2007)
Uh...what? How did this novel get rated as "low" on the "importance scale"? For that matter, why is there EVEN AN IMPORTANCE SCALE IN THE FIRST PLACE? Strikes me as NPOV because, I mean, c'mon, "importance" is relatively subjective. Let me say this: Is Philip K. Dick important as an author, or just of mild importance? He's influenced modern science fiction, right? William Gibson, the Bladerunner movie...He's got a prestigious award named after him, the "Philip K. Dick" award. If anyone asks me to cite WHY Philip K. Dick himself is important to modern literature, I'm done with Wikipedia. So, given that it is my belief that Dick is important to science fiction, shouldn't any of his work be more closely scrutinized on the "importance scale"? I mean, I'm sure we're all more worried about the cultural significance of, say, someone like Chris Crocker or Kevin Fedderline, but look at the VALIS entry from Philip K. Dick's biography on Wikipedia:
"VALIS, (1980) is perhaps Dick’s most postmodern and autobiographical novel, examining his own unexplained experiences (see above). It may also be considered his most academically studied work, and was adapted as an opera by Tod Machover.[14] VALIS was voted Philip K. Dick‘s best novel at the website philipkdickfans.com.[15]." And yet this same encyclopedia has decided to rank (judge) this novel as being of "low importance". There's a grand inconsistency here.
If I sound bitter, it's because I am. Wikipedia lately seems bogged down by unnecessary rules and off-kilter decisions made by editors who clearly have various agendas. Look at what happened because senior admin (or whatever they're called here) MONGO didn't like the entry on Encyclopedia Dramatica, because they had insulted him (The ED article was deleted). Or there's the example of the Chris Crocker debate (It was determined that he was significant, and that the article should not, in fact, be deleted, despite the deletion of articles on things/people far more significant). Or that whole debacle of "Trivia" being discouraged. It's things like this that cause me to rapidly lose respect for Wikipedia. Zebraic 22:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure where to put this, as I am not familiar with all Wikipedia guidelines yet (and doubt I will ever be; I try to keep up, but the policies are ever-changing.). However, the talk page seemed to redirect me here, so I'm putting it here.
I want the importance of this article reassessed, please. I'll outline why. I apologize if this is in the wrong spot, and, if so, I shall move it.
An article on the novel "VALIS" is important because the novel "VALIS" itself is important, within its genre and within the body of work of Philip K. Dick. This is the basic hypothesis of my argument, for which I intend to build evidence.
First, I believe that Philip K. Dick has proven remarkably (here meaning "enough to be remarked upon") influential to the science-fiction genre. However, I understand that I've got to back this belief up. Fortunately, there's a lot of evidence to back it up. Just a cursory glance at the resultant pages a search for his name via Google reveals makes his influence clear. Examples: Richard Behrens, writer and critic for the magazine 'The Modern World' had this to say about K. Dick: "The influence of Philip K. Dick on contemporary culture is widespread. On the most obvious level, there are countless projects drawing direct inspiration from his works. While the most famous of these is undoubtedly Ridley Scott’s seminal film Blade Runner, there’s also the Philip K. Dick award for science fiction, Tod Machover’s electronic opera VALIS, and numerous fictional homages set in “Dickian” worlds[...]But on a more profound level, Philip K. Dick’s writing has virtually inscribed its own literary niche, a combination of stylistic tropes and recurring themes occupying the space between genre science fiction and the postmodern literature of the 'technological sublime.'" [2] In an article about Dick titled "Science master", columnist Lisa Tuttle of the Times Online (London Times) speaks about his post-humus fame and influence, and the importance of his contributions to science fiction. [3]. Adam Gopnik, writing for the New Yorker, makes the case that PKD fan community tends to paint him as an under-acknowledged author while, in truth, following 1963's The Man in the High Castle Dick was famous. Gopnik also acknowledges Philip K. Dick's influence by stating that "Dick’s mixture of satire and fantasy has inspired countless films". [4]. Art Spiegelman holds that "What Franz Kafka was to the first half of the 20th century, Philip K. Dick is to the second half." [5] Without overburdening anyone with quotes, I also most state (or re-state) that Dick has an arguably prestigious award named after him, his novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" was voted the 8th most significant book in science fiction of the past 50 years (falling below "Neuromancer", which surprised me, and above "Fahrenheit 451", which also sort of surprised me) by the Science Fiction Book Club [6], and influenced notable modern comic book writers such as Grant Morrison [7] [8]. I know, I know, to me it would seem a "given" that Philip K. Dick is influential--But I also feel like it needs to be sourced, for the benefit of my fellow Wikipedians (I don't want to get called out, basically, by folks stating, "How was he influential? Where are your sources?"), and for what I am about to say next.
So I think the modern importance of Philip K. Dick has been well established. That having been said, as influential as he evidently was, the importance of any novel written and published by him should garner review of importance. I acknowledge that Dick was a prolific writer, and, as such, many of his books and novellas and short stories are --by virtue of the mass of material to which they belong-- of low importance, taken singularly. Others, such as "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" and "The Man in the High Castle" are clearly, critically acknowledged works of no small importance. I don't think that "VALIS" is important like the aforementioned novels; I believe its influence and import to PKD's body of work, and science fiction at large, is a bit different than those other two. In some ways, "VALIS" is arguably more influential than "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?". This is because, while "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" obviously became famous in the world of pop culture through its movie version, "VALIS" may, as stated in the Wikipedia article on Philip K. Dick, "be considered his most academically studied work" (No, I didn't write that, but here are academic discourses to give precedent, or source, to that statement: [9], [10],[http ://www.philipkdickfans.com/articles/demeesterpkdthesis3.htm A thesis analyzing the 'Universe of Philip K. Dick' in which "VALIS" is central], [11], [12]). Furthermore, "VALIS"'s importance is one of importance to the life of Dick himself. It is acknowledged as a "semi-fictional" auto-biography in which the writer deals with certain important experiences he had on and following February 3rd, 1974. [13] These experiences influenced his final 8 years of writing. My point being, here, that "VALIS", as an autobiography dealing in specific impacts to the life of an influential science fiction author, must be at least considered to possess some importance. Further, a reassessment of the importance of an article on the book in question should take into consideration the fact that fans of Dick on the website philipkdickfans.com voted "VALIS" their favorite story[http ://www.philipkdickfans.com/pkdweb/HorseraceResults.htm]. Another factor to consider in reassessment of "VALIS"'s importance is its influence in other works, such as Grant Morrison's " The Invisibles"(Not to mention "The Filth" and parts of his Doom Patrol run) [14] [15], the The Matrix Trilogy, a modern musical by Tod Machover (adapted from the novel) [16], a comic-depicted version of "VALIS" events illustrated by R. Crumb[http ://www.philipkdickfans.com/weirdo.htm].
In summary, I hold that the importance of the novel "VALIS", and any subsequent article (ie, the current Wikipedia entry) ranks above "low importance". However, I also admit that it is not of the highest importance, yet. Zebraic 05:22, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
As someone who came upon this page casually without any previous knowledge of VALIS, but wishing to find out about it, it makes absolutely no sense. I don't understand any of it, and I believe the point of Wikipedia is the complete opposite of that. It seems to me that whoever wrote this article did so under the assumption that the reader already has prior knowledge of the book, which defies the point completely. I learned more from the discussion page than I did from the actual article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.244.67 ( talk) 20:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Infernal.magnet ( talk) 00:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
There's a goth rock band out there that has a song called VALIS. Anyone remember it? 122.107.56.47 ( talk) 09:31, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I removed the following from the article, and bring it here for discussion:
Is there a reference for any of this? These claims have to have a source. I removed similar information from the main characters section for the same reason. Can someone please verify this? --- RepublicanJacobite The'FortyFive' 03:48, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I restrained myself from an {{
in-universe}} tag, not so much bcz of my uncertainty that it's accurate as from awareness that the topic requires special care that may best be elicited on the talk page. And on reflection, i wonder if the interim solution i'm implementing may not be a crucial exception to what i assume is the usual approach: I'm putting
the "Characters" section before
the "Synopsis" one, and then looking for a more professional account of the plot (which for some unknown reason [wink] it hasn't stuck with me). Without clear, early discussion of the author's willful confusion of author and character, the accompanying article is a candidate for Most Mis-informative Article on Wikipedia.
--
Jerzy•
t
19:00, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
i've been trying to get into the black iron prison for some months now. and todayyy i go there and realize that i had already been there 25 years ago. i read valis when i was twenty used to have the book but gave it away. im writing a comic book called logos: the unbelievable truth and am using the pkd character in each of the 11 issues. the pkd estate says no you can't but i say yes we can. the doctor, the professor, the mystery writer, foal paravour, the prophet, pkd as a pill, an android, he can be whoever you want him to be! long live pkd, long live the wikipedia, long live the logos, the love police, shauwn walker and the silence. 22.06.11 the second day of summer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shauwn walker ( talk • contribs) 11:24, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
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Where does James P. Blaylock appear in the book? Or rather, what character is influenced by him? -- Viriditas | Talk 10:05, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
If there are three books, and all of them are available, doesn't that imply that it is a completed trilogy? Or is it that of the three books listed as the VALIS trilogy one of them is not a true part of the trilogy?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Earthbound01 ( talk • contribs) 14:17, March 28, 2006
@earthbound I believe there were meant to be FOUR books, and Dick died before writing the fourth. I believe it is a grammatical confusion, the article author used "trilogy" to allude to the existence of only three books. Perhaps a clearer reading could be had using some further qualifying explanation, or either the removal of the word "unfinished," or the changing of "trilogy" to "quadrilogy"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.244.245.5 ( talk • contribs) 23:39, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
Once and for all, there is no "VALIS Trilogy" ! Except as a marketing gimmick by the publishers and in the minds of a few very devoted fans. This is tragic perhaps, but it is the way it is. Dick's actual accomplishments are enough without making things up. Why does the public so crave tossing about the word "trilogy" anyway? The planned third book, The Owl in Daylight, never reached draft stage. Dick discusses this in interviews in late 1981 and early 1982 and makes fairly clear that the Transmigration of Timothy Archer is separate standalone work based on his experience with Bishop James A. Pike. It is very close to a Roman a Clef, as every major character is based on a real person and the major events for each, such as death, are exactly as in real life. He also regarded doing the novel in first person as a female character to be a notable accomplishment. All of that is in the transcripts of the interviews published as What If Our World is Their Heaven There seems to be no way of knowing what Dick planned beyond the unwritten third book in the series and definite statement that The Transmigration of Timothy Archer was a separate project he felt compelled to do before proceeding further with the VALIS work.
There was recently an AfD on Black Iron Prison ( Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black Iron Prison), which reached a consensus to merge that article into this one. I usually perform such merges myself, but I thought that in this instance I ought to leave it up to someone more familiar with the subject at hand. -- bainer ( talk) 01:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
-- Infernal.magnet 16:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
-- 85.226.208.85 07:32, 22 July 2006 (UTC)Vallentin 09:43, 20 July 2006
I did the merge. I put it in the section called "Philosophical and cultural references" but really have no idea where it should go. I have no clue what the book is about, and the Plot summary section doesn't have anything in it. I don't understand the relationship between VALIS, Exegesis and the Tractates. I don't know what the Black Iron Prison is or whether it's meant to be literal or metaphorical. The quote from Dick makes no sense, except the last sentence makes it sound like the Parable of the cave. Please, someone clarify this for naive people like me who haven't read the book! Tocharianne 03:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
The Gnostic stuff that the Black Iron Prison refers to isn't as obvious as 1984-esque overt government control, as all the "see also"s seem to suggest, but rather a sort of spiritual unenlightenment, not imposed by particular others. Read the description already! I'm killing these misleading see-alsos.
Bleedingcherub ( talk) 06:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
This is just a small list of concepts that I think could do with greater explaination.
Thus, it could be said that enlightenment by VALIS is an intensly bittersweet experience. Although Dick was shown many incredible things, these things also tormented him for the rest of his life as he tried to make what he had experienced fit within his pre-existing belief structure.
-- Infernal.magnet 16:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Dick claims to have had an urgent message that his infant son was in danger despite no symptoms. The child on careful examination had an inguinal hernia which supposedly if not operated on immediately would have killed the child. This is false. Inguinal hernias exist in varying degree from a tiny bulge to a full-blown 'strangulated' hernia which causes severe pain and vomiting and other symptoms and indeed necessitates immediate operation. However, most other forms of inguinal hernia do not require immediate operation, especially if causing no symptoms. An elective operation may be planned later to correct the hernia. A hernia is the protrusion of an organ from within the receptacle that normally contains it and in the case of an inguinal hernia usually means a part of the bowel has decided to come down the inguinal canal that normally transmits the spermatic cord and related structures between scrotum and abdominal cavity. As I said, this can be the merest bulge of bowel through a small hole (non-urgetn and causing no symptoms) or a whole loop of bowel which then twists and blocks (strangulates) and need urgent operation. So Dick was wrong. (mad-MD)
+ The condition existed whether the threat was imminent or not. Perhaps Zebra was indicating that there could have been complications that developed in the future if it was left untreated. Partial inaccuracy is not the same as complete incorrectness. (JC, July 2007)
These are opinions.
First, I don't think it's quite fair to characterize Dick's use of a fictional character to stand in for himself "this can all be viewed by the reader as a form of mental illness." True this "could" be viewed as mental illness. It could just as readily be viewed as a method of self-analysis that allows for a form of objectivity. In fact this is pointed out by Dick himself, as narrator, early in the book.
Second, in the Exegesis section it is stated that Dick claimed that VALIS...'the Earth satellite used "pink laser beams" to project thoughts into his head.' In truth it was the fictional character Horselover Fat who makes this claim. Almost all the sections of this article that attribute specific thoughts to P.K.D. are in fact in error because it was the character Horselover Fat who made these claims. See the first paragraph for an explanation regarding objectivity.
Yes, I know Dick wrote the book. But because he created a character to speak to these "observations" the use of that character should be respected in this analysis/article. After all Dick had a clear reason for using a fictional character. That reason, to provide Dick with some objectivity, should be respected.
Third, this play-list is flawed. Philip K. Dick is the narrator, Horselover Fat is the protagonist, not the narrator.
Fourth, though critics claim that this is not a work of fiction due to the apparent parallels to Dick's own life, my personal opinion is that this is indeed a work of fiction. This is largely due to the fact that the movie, VALIS, described in the book bears little (or no) similarity to the movie "The Man Who Fell to Earth" cited as the movie that inspired the fictional movie "VALIS" described in the book.
I know this is nit-picky, but the substance of this work of fiction is lost in this article due to an over-abundance of speculation. William (Bill) Bean 15:06, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
+ Re: "Second" and "Third": At the beginning of the book, Dick explicitly states that he is Horselover Fat, but that he uses this other character for narrative purposes. Throughout the book, Dick slips and refers to this character in the first person instead of as Horselover Fat, and then corrects himself. At first, it's more frequent than later in the book, where it gradually subsides until the meeting with Sophia where Dick/Horselover is "cured" and Horselover disappears, leaving only Dick himself. After Sophia's death, he fractures again. Further, any biographical or autobiographical reading about Dick's life will illuminate that this work -- specifically the details of Dick's madness/encounter with God/VALIS/Zebra/whatever -- is at least a partially factual account. (JC, July 2007)
+ Re: "Fourth": While you're correct in that this is indeed a work of fiction (in addition to VALIS bearing no resemblance to Man Who Fell to Earth, Mother Goose -- the character who is supposedly David Bowie -- never had a daughter who was extremely mentally mature and then died, nor did Brian Eno die from radiation exposure, nor did [countless other differences]), I think the best description could be "semi-fictional semi-autobiography", meaning that it's _based_ on a factual account of many aspects of Dick's life during 2-3-74, but fictional elements have been added for dramatic effect. (JC, July 2007)
Uh...what? How did this novel get rated as "low" on the "importance scale"? For that matter, why is there EVEN AN IMPORTANCE SCALE IN THE FIRST PLACE? Strikes me as NPOV because, I mean, c'mon, "importance" is relatively subjective. Let me say this: Is Philip K. Dick important as an author, or just of mild importance? He's influenced modern science fiction, right? William Gibson, the Bladerunner movie...He's got a prestigious award named after him, the "Philip K. Dick" award. If anyone asks me to cite WHY Philip K. Dick himself is important to modern literature, I'm done with Wikipedia. So, given that it is my belief that Dick is important to science fiction, shouldn't any of his work be more closely scrutinized on the "importance scale"? I mean, I'm sure we're all more worried about the cultural significance of, say, someone like Chris Crocker or Kevin Fedderline, but look at the VALIS entry from Philip K. Dick's biography on Wikipedia:
"VALIS, (1980) is perhaps Dick’s most postmodern and autobiographical novel, examining his own unexplained experiences (see above). It may also be considered his most academically studied work, and was adapted as an opera by Tod Machover.[14] VALIS was voted Philip K. Dick‘s best novel at the website philipkdickfans.com.[15]." And yet this same encyclopedia has decided to rank (judge) this novel as being of "low importance". There's a grand inconsistency here.
If I sound bitter, it's because I am. Wikipedia lately seems bogged down by unnecessary rules and off-kilter decisions made by editors who clearly have various agendas. Look at what happened because senior admin (or whatever they're called here) MONGO didn't like the entry on Encyclopedia Dramatica, because they had insulted him (The ED article was deleted). Or there's the example of the Chris Crocker debate (It was determined that he was significant, and that the article should not, in fact, be deleted, despite the deletion of articles on things/people far more significant). Or that whole debacle of "Trivia" being discouraged. It's things like this that cause me to rapidly lose respect for Wikipedia. Zebraic 22:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure where to put this, as I am not familiar with all Wikipedia guidelines yet (and doubt I will ever be; I try to keep up, but the policies are ever-changing.). However, the talk page seemed to redirect me here, so I'm putting it here.
I want the importance of this article reassessed, please. I'll outline why. I apologize if this is in the wrong spot, and, if so, I shall move it.
An article on the novel "VALIS" is important because the novel "VALIS" itself is important, within its genre and within the body of work of Philip K. Dick. This is the basic hypothesis of my argument, for which I intend to build evidence.
First, I believe that Philip K. Dick has proven remarkably (here meaning "enough to be remarked upon") influential to the science-fiction genre. However, I understand that I've got to back this belief up. Fortunately, there's a lot of evidence to back it up. Just a cursory glance at the resultant pages a search for his name via Google reveals makes his influence clear. Examples: Richard Behrens, writer and critic for the magazine 'The Modern World' had this to say about K. Dick: "The influence of Philip K. Dick on contemporary culture is widespread. On the most obvious level, there are countless projects drawing direct inspiration from his works. While the most famous of these is undoubtedly Ridley Scott’s seminal film Blade Runner, there’s also the Philip K. Dick award for science fiction, Tod Machover’s electronic opera VALIS, and numerous fictional homages set in “Dickian” worlds[...]But on a more profound level, Philip K. Dick’s writing has virtually inscribed its own literary niche, a combination of stylistic tropes and recurring themes occupying the space between genre science fiction and the postmodern literature of the 'technological sublime.'" [2] In an article about Dick titled "Science master", columnist Lisa Tuttle of the Times Online (London Times) speaks about his post-humus fame and influence, and the importance of his contributions to science fiction. [3]. Adam Gopnik, writing for the New Yorker, makes the case that PKD fan community tends to paint him as an under-acknowledged author while, in truth, following 1963's The Man in the High Castle Dick was famous. Gopnik also acknowledges Philip K. Dick's influence by stating that "Dick’s mixture of satire and fantasy has inspired countless films". [4]. Art Spiegelman holds that "What Franz Kafka was to the first half of the 20th century, Philip K. Dick is to the second half." [5] Without overburdening anyone with quotes, I also most state (or re-state) that Dick has an arguably prestigious award named after him, his novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" was voted the 8th most significant book in science fiction of the past 50 years (falling below "Neuromancer", which surprised me, and above "Fahrenheit 451", which also sort of surprised me) by the Science Fiction Book Club [6], and influenced notable modern comic book writers such as Grant Morrison [7] [8]. I know, I know, to me it would seem a "given" that Philip K. Dick is influential--But I also feel like it needs to be sourced, for the benefit of my fellow Wikipedians (I don't want to get called out, basically, by folks stating, "How was he influential? Where are your sources?"), and for what I am about to say next.
So I think the modern importance of Philip K. Dick has been well established. That having been said, as influential as he evidently was, the importance of any novel written and published by him should garner review of importance. I acknowledge that Dick was a prolific writer, and, as such, many of his books and novellas and short stories are --by virtue of the mass of material to which they belong-- of low importance, taken singularly. Others, such as "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" and "The Man in the High Castle" are clearly, critically acknowledged works of no small importance. I don't think that "VALIS" is important like the aforementioned novels; I believe its influence and import to PKD's body of work, and science fiction at large, is a bit different than those other two. In some ways, "VALIS" is arguably more influential than "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?". This is because, while "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" obviously became famous in the world of pop culture through its movie version, "VALIS" may, as stated in the Wikipedia article on Philip K. Dick, "be considered his most academically studied work" (No, I didn't write that, but here are academic discourses to give precedent, or source, to that statement: [9], [10],[http ://www.philipkdickfans.com/articles/demeesterpkdthesis3.htm A thesis analyzing the 'Universe of Philip K. Dick' in which "VALIS" is central], [11], [12]). Furthermore, "VALIS"'s importance is one of importance to the life of Dick himself. It is acknowledged as a "semi-fictional" auto-biography in which the writer deals with certain important experiences he had on and following February 3rd, 1974. [13] These experiences influenced his final 8 years of writing. My point being, here, that "VALIS", as an autobiography dealing in specific impacts to the life of an influential science fiction author, must be at least considered to possess some importance. Further, a reassessment of the importance of an article on the book in question should take into consideration the fact that fans of Dick on the website philipkdickfans.com voted "VALIS" their favorite story[http ://www.philipkdickfans.com/pkdweb/HorseraceResults.htm]. Another factor to consider in reassessment of "VALIS"'s importance is its influence in other works, such as Grant Morrison's " The Invisibles"(Not to mention "The Filth" and parts of his Doom Patrol run) [14] [15], the The Matrix Trilogy, a modern musical by Tod Machover (adapted from the novel) [16], a comic-depicted version of "VALIS" events illustrated by R. Crumb[http ://www.philipkdickfans.com/weirdo.htm].
In summary, I hold that the importance of the novel "VALIS", and any subsequent article (ie, the current Wikipedia entry) ranks above "low importance". However, I also admit that it is not of the highest importance, yet. Zebraic 05:22, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
As someone who came upon this page casually without any previous knowledge of VALIS, but wishing to find out about it, it makes absolutely no sense. I don't understand any of it, and I believe the point of Wikipedia is the complete opposite of that. It seems to me that whoever wrote this article did so under the assumption that the reader already has prior knowledge of the book, which defies the point completely. I learned more from the discussion page than I did from the actual article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.244.67 ( talk) 20:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Infernal.magnet ( talk) 00:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
There's a goth rock band out there that has a song called VALIS. Anyone remember it? 122.107.56.47 ( talk) 09:31, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I removed the following from the article, and bring it here for discussion:
Is there a reference for any of this? These claims have to have a source. I removed similar information from the main characters section for the same reason. Can someone please verify this? --- RepublicanJacobite The'FortyFive' 03:48, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I restrained myself from an {{
in-universe}} tag, not so much bcz of my uncertainty that it's accurate as from awareness that the topic requires special care that may best be elicited on the talk page. And on reflection, i wonder if the interim solution i'm implementing may not be a crucial exception to what i assume is the usual approach: I'm putting
the "Characters" section before
the "Synopsis" one, and then looking for a more professional account of the plot (which for some unknown reason [wink] it hasn't stuck with me). Without clear, early discussion of the author's willful confusion of author and character, the accompanying article is a candidate for Most Mis-informative Article on Wikipedia.
--
Jerzy•
t
19:00, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
i've been trying to get into the black iron prison for some months now. and todayyy i go there and realize that i had already been there 25 years ago. i read valis when i was twenty used to have the book but gave it away. im writing a comic book called logos: the unbelievable truth and am using the pkd character in each of the 11 issues. the pkd estate says no you can't but i say yes we can. the doctor, the professor, the mystery writer, foal paravour, the prophet, pkd as a pill, an android, he can be whoever you want him to be! long live pkd, long live the wikipedia, long live the logos, the love police, shauwn walker and the silence. 22.06.11 the second day of summer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shauwn walker ( talk • contribs) 11:24, 22 June 2011 (UTC)