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I have decided to put a photo in the lead article rather than the schematic. I think that's better, isn't it? Even though it is not easy to decide which UDDT photo should be taken to be the "typical" UDDT. EvM-Susana ( talk) 13:06, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
I am working on adapting this article to the Sanitation Manual of Style. I am also adding information, that I do not find in the article yet. Following sections need to be written: Maintenance, Health aspects (includes general promotion efforts), Usage: Includes information on acceptance Mll mitch ( talk) 15:44, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Gruster, thanks a lot for impropving this article, just a couple of things: You have introduced the term septic-based system. In my opinion, this term is ill-defined. Perhaps it is widely used in the US, but not outside. I would recommend that we still to the convention of terms found in the Eawag-Sandec Compendium, see http://ecompendium.sswm.info/glossary I think what you mean is either on-site sanitation systems or septic tank based sanitation systems, or sanitation systems with local infiltration of partially treated wastewater. So I would not like to use the term "septic-based" in this article.
Also, I think we need to stick to either British English or American English but not mix both. I had used faeces throughout but now I sometimes see feces. I though I used the -ised but now I see -ized (and -isation, not -ization). I could also live with a decision to switch the entire page to US spelling if needed, but if the majority is currently in British English (is it?), then we should stick to that?
The same applies to the units. I think we should stick with SI units, or if you want to give US-units then let's put the SI units in brackets afterwards?
You have added a pile of references to one sentence (it's the sentence on pharmaceutical residues). I think that is not necessary and just indicates "bias". We are not meant to cite individual research articles anyhow but rather review articles. I think we should make life for our readers easier and make a selection for them, which article or two is the most important one. Unless the articles are covering different aspects but then the sentence should perhaps be split in two. (and I think it would actually deviate too far from the UDDT topic, perhaps you want to rather review the article on "wastewater treatment plant"). EvM-Susana ( talk) 21:34, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
This article seems long and filled with dry lists. Also, 30 references are to the same article or a summary of that article. There's even more references involving the " von Muench, E" guy. It begins to seem POV. Aren't there alternative views/sources? Can the article be chopped down? For comparison, this article is 80,231 bytes.
It would be an advantage if the article was short and concise, in consideration of the reader, and less complicated in terms of jargon. EChastain ( talk) 22:26, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
Further, almost all of the material here is the POV of the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance. This is not a neutral article. EChastain ( talk) 01:27, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Also, the same heading is repeated. All headings are supposed to be uniques. And the named references are impossible to follow, especially those from the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance. This makes it very difficult for other editors to edit. EChastain ( talk) 01:48, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
And I have provided links to more neutral sources on another article, CLST which explains why there's no reliable outcome data but it seems there's no interest in using alternative sources, even when they're more informative. EChastain ( talk) 14:36, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
JMWt, the ( edit conflict) template means that I got an "edit conflict" when I first tried to post my comment. It has nothing to do with you and using it is a common practice when an editor gets an "edit conflict" notice and has to repost. Please don't take common practices personally and feel you must get snarky. Also, the "fundamental point" is that many articles are the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance, so where the citation template says "website=", its correct to give the website. After all, its that website that the reader will see.
Also, in many countries a PhD thesis (or dissertation) is not published by the university where the student received his/her PhD. If in Sweden the university does publish all PhD theses, than please correct me. In any case, a thesis is not considered a reliable source and there are five citations in this article to PhD theses.
For ease of editing for other editors, it would be better to use more intuitive names for "named references". For example, using <ref name=":6">, <ref name=":11"> obscures the source to editors not "in the know" regarding the names of citations in this article. A more common method is to use the author or the title, as in <ref name="technology review">.
According to the MoS, section heading should not be repeated in the article. See MoS Section headings. The heading "Comparison with pit latrines" is used in two different sections.
In any event, the article is much improved since yesterday. And we both know that this is just a website and not worth getting upset. I apologise if I've caused you be noncollaborative as your post above (and below) indicates. Wikipedia is based on collaborative editing, not on article ownership, no matter how "right" another editor feels they are. No one holds the truth. Best, EChastain ( talk) 17:48, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
EvM-Susana, are you ever open-minded about anything? If you don't learn to do citations properly, avoid copy/pastes and learn the MoS, these articles of yours will never get respect. Just because you find certain things helpful, that doesn't mean you can violate the policies and guidelines of Wikipedia. Sheesh!
And a pdf document is not "published", as surely you already know. Anyone can put a pdf document on a website, and there's no indication that your website peer reviews. It looks like you put up the material you agree with. (I know I recognise the names of the authors, as they're in many of the 10,000 images you have on the Commons. And I know you're affiliated with Gesellschaft für International Zusammenarbeit (GIZ) GmbH, Eschborn, Germany.)
You have 5 references to PhD "theses".I don't know why you give credibility to pre-doctoral documents. Is it because they say what you want and no peer reviewed, secondary source does? You can't find proper citations because there's no outcome data to show that your efforts are effective, for the reasons given in the CLTS article I referred you to."CLTS data are collected but not regularly reported" and are "unreliable" etc. So the necessary research has yet to be done. EChastain ( talk) 00:58, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
EvM-Susana, I think that in every case where the link you provided ends up at the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance website, the name of the website should be given. This is for the readers sake, as its disturbing how many citations/sources come from your website and this gives the appearance of conflict of interest. There are hundreds of NGOs that are engaged in upgrading sanitation in the same areas as your organisation is. Although you say that your organisation, Sustainable Sanitation Alliance, does not promote, it certainly has a "mission", written by SuSanA. (There's so much unexplained jargon there such as MDG?) Is it the case that Sustainable Sanitation Alliance publish on their website only the articles of members who choose to join the organisation or do they publish those of others also?
As I pointed out to you on Talk:Community-led total sanitation, there are more neutral organisations that are attempting to provide outcome studies through data analysis on the success of efforts by NGOs such as yours. Many are also supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF). More variation in sources would improve this article, in my opinion, and perhaps reduce the overwhelming emphasis on Sustainable Sanitation Alliance website. All the more necessary, in my view, as so many of the images used in the article have the big "Sustainable Sanitation Alliance" box on them. EChastain ( talk) 14:21, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
In the
edit summary at 2016-08-23T21:43:03
EvMsmile commented,
"I don't think we need such a technical drawing here."
"The photos are clearer for lay people."
"Drawings can be found via the external links"
I've just removed some excessive detail and some content that was probably copyright violations. In particular the content from the GIZ publication on UDDTs (it doesn't say anything about its licence in the pdf file so I guess the default would be that it is not a compatible licence). More content should be removed where the text is too much a "how to" or an advocacy piece about what "should" be done. I am the first to admit that some of this kind would have been added by me back in 2014 or so when I first started out on Wikipedia editing (and having a professional background with UDDTs). I am not sure that I'll get around to doing this culling work in the near future so if anyone can help that would be appreciated. EMsmile ( talk) 09:50, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Urine-diverting dry toilet article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I have decided to put a photo in the lead article rather than the schematic. I think that's better, isn't it? Even though it is not easy to decide which UDDT photo should be taken to be the "typical" UDDT. EvM-Susana ( talk) 13:06, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
I am working on adapting this article to the Sanitation Manual of Style. I am also adding information, that I do not find in the article yet. Following sections need to be written: Maintenance, Health aspects (includes general promotion efforts), Usage: Includes information on acceptance Mll mitch ( talk) 15:44, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Gruster, thanks a lot for impropving this article, just a couple of things: You have introduced the term septic-based system. In my opinion, this term is ill-defined. Perhaps it is widely used in the US, but not outside. I would recommend that we still to the convention of terms found in the Eawag-Sandec Compendium, see http://ecompendium.sswm.info/glossary I think what you mean is either on-site sanitation systems or septic tank based sanitation systems, or sanitation systems with local infiltration of partially treated wastewater. So I would not like to use the term "septic-based" in this article.
Also, I think we need to stick to either British English or American English but not mix both. I had used faeces throughout but now I sometimes see feces. I though I used the -ised but now I see -ized (and -isation, not -ization). I could also live with a decision to switch the entire page to US spelling if needed, but if the majority is currently in British English (is it?), then we should stick to that?
The same applies to the units. I think we should stick with SI units, or if you want to give US-units then let's put the SI units in brackets afterwards?
You have added a pile of references to one sentence (it's the sentence on pharmaceutical residues). I think that is not necessary and just indicates "bias". We are not meant to cite individual research articles anyhow but rather review articles. I think we should make life for our readers easier and make a selection for them, which article or two is the most important one. Unless the articles are covering different aspects but then the sentence should perhaps be split in two. (and I think it would actually deviate too far from the UDDT topic, perhaps you want to rather review the article on "wastewater treatment plant"). EvM-Susana ( talk) 21:34, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
This article seems long and filled with dry lists. Also, 30 references are to the same article or a summary of that article. There's even more references involving the " von Muench, E" guy. It begins to seem POV. Aren't there alternative views/sources? Can the article be chopped down? For comparison, this article is 80,231 bytes.
It would be an advantage if the article was short and concise, in consideration of the reader, and less complicated in terms of jargon. EChastain ( talk) 22:26, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
Further, almost all of the material here is the POV of the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance. This is not a neutral article. EChastain ( talk) 01:27, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Also, the same heading is repeated. All headings are supposed to be uniques. And the named references are impossible to follow, especially those from the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance. This makes it very difficult for other editors to edit. EChastain ( talk) 01:48, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
And I have provided links to more neutral sources on another article, CLST which explains why there's no reliable outcome data but it seems there's no interest in using alternative sources, even when they're more informative. EChastain ( talk) 14:36, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
JMWt, the ( edit conflict) template means that I got an "edit conflict" when I first tried to post my comment. It has nothing to do with you and using it is a common practice when an editor gets an "edit conflict" notice and has to repost. Please don't take common practices personally and feel you must get snarky. Also, the "fundamental point" is that many articles are the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance, so where the citation template says "website=", its correct to give the website. After all, its that website that the reader will see.
Also, in many countries a PhD thesis (or dissertation) is not published by the university where the student received his/her PhD. If in Sweden the university does publish all PhD theses, than please correct me. In any case, a thesis is not considered a reliable source and there are five citations in this article to PhD theses.
For ease of editing for other editors, it would be better to use more intuitive names for "named references". For example, using <ref name=":6">, <ref name=":11"> obscures the source to editors not "in the know" regarding the names of citations in this article. A more common method is to use the author or the title, as in <ref name="technology review">.
According to the MoS, section heading should not be repeated in the article. See MoS Section headings. The heading "Comparison with pit latrines" is used in two different sections.
In any event, the article is much improved since yesterday. And we both know that this is just a website and not worth getting upset. I apologise if I've caused you be noncollaborative as your post above (and below) indicates. Wikipedia is based on collaborative editing, not on article ownership, no matter how "right" another editor feels they are. No one holds the truth. Best, EChastain ( talk) 17:48, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
EvM-Susana, are you ever open-minded about anything? If you don't learn to do citations properly, avoid copy/pastes and learn the MoS, these articles of yours will never get respect. Just because you find certain things helpful, that doesn't mean you can violate the policies and guidelines of Wikipedia. Sheesh!
And a pdf document is not "published", as surely you already know. Anyone can put a pdf document on a website, and there's no indication that your website peer reviews. It looks like you put up the material you agree with. (I know I recognise the names of the authors, as they're in many of the 10,000 images you have on the Commons. And I know you're affiliated with Gesellschaft für International Zusammenarbeit (GIZ) GmbH, Eschborn, Germany.)
You have 5 references to PhD "theses".I don't know why you give credibility to pre-doctoral documents. Is it because they say what you want and no peer reviewed, secondary source does? You can't find proper citations because there's no outcome data to show that your efforts are effective, for the reasons given in the CLTS article I referred you to."CLTS data are collected but not regularly reported" and are "unreliable" etc. So the necessary research has yet to be done. EChastain ( talk) 00:58, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
EvM-Susana, I think that in every case where the link you provided ends up at the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance website, the name of the website should be given. This is for the readers sake, as its disturbing how many citations/sources come from your website and this gives the appearance of conflict of interest. There are hundreds of NGOs that are engaged in upgrading sanitation in the same areas as your organisation is. Although you say that your organisation, Sustainable Sanitation Alliance, does not promote, it certainly has a "mission", written by SuSanA. (There's so much unexplained jargon there such as MDG?) Is it the case that Sustainable Sanitation Alliance publish on their website only the articles of members who choose to join the organisation or do they publish those of others also?
As I pointed out to you on Talk:Community-led total sanitation, there are more neutral organisations that are attempting to provide outcome studies through data analysis on the success of efforts by NGOs such as yours. Many are also supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF). More variation in sources would improve this article, in my opinion, and perhaps reduce the overwhelming emphasis on Sustainable Sanitation Alliance website. All the more necessary, in my view, as so many of the images used in the article have the big "Sustainable Sanitation Alliance" box on them. EChastain ( talk) 14:21, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
In the
edit summary at 2016-08-23T21:43:03
EvMsmile commented,
"I don't think we need such a technical drawing here."
"The photos are clearer for lay people."
"Drawings can be found via the external links"
I've just removed some excessive detail and some content that was probably copyright violations. In particular the content from the GIZ publication on UDDTs (it doesn't say anything about its licence in the pdf file so I guess the default would be that it is not a compatible licence). More content should be removed where the text is too much a "how to" or an advocacy piece about what "should" be done. I am the first to admit that some of this kind would have been added by me back in 2014 or so when I first started out on Wikipedia editing (and having a professional background with UDDTs). I am not sure that I'll get around to doing this culling work in the near future so if anyone can help that would be appreciated. EMsmile ( talk) 09:50, 1 March 2023 (UTC)